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    Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

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    Mike E
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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:19 am

    TR1 wrote:There won't be 8 Boreiis in service by 2020.

    In fact they will be lucky if they can commission 5 by then.

    Yeah yeah yeah... We heard that a hundred times about the Russian naval industry. - Funny considering the others who always brought that up were Navyfield and TO55, coincidence? 

    To be honest, I expect *at least* six to be commissioned by then. It doesn't really matter as long as they can beat the new-Ohio in good numbers, which should be an easy achievement...

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:more like they will be lucky if they commission 5 by 2016. Production rate is good. I'm worried about yasen though.

    5 by the end of 2016 will be a stretch, but I don't doubt it could be done... Why all the worry? The Yasen has been producing at a perfectly respectable rate, and things will be speeding up not down... Plus, the Akula's should hold them off for long enough, those plus the modernized Sierra's.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:54 am

    I don't care about Nayvfield and T055, I care about reality. Trying to make a situation look better than it is is just stupid.

    5 by 2016? Does reality change if you wish it to be so?

    Look @ the speed of the 2nd and 3rd boat, from laid down, to launched, to commissioned.

    Then look when the Knyaz Vladimir was laid down. Even allowing for the fact that its costruction effectively started earlier, the number simply do not add up. It is unlikely that it will be commissioned by 2016.

    But if the Knyaz Vladimir will be not many years off, 5th hull was only laid down this year. Please, explain to me how in any universe it could be ready by 2016.

    I maintain that they will be lucky to commission 5, at best 6 boats by 2020.

    As for Yasen, the situation is similar. I predict at best 4 submarines by 2020 in commission. And here the situation is actually even worse than for 955. The SSBN fleet is relying on the good status of the BDRMs, most of which are operational and are regularly overhauled and modernized.
    The SSN fleet however is in serious decline temporarily, since half of the 971 fleet is being repaired on modernized, as a result of never getting the midlife overhauls they should have gotten over the past 10 years.
    If there is anything rosy about the SSN fleet, I don't see it. Ironically they will seeing the operational fleet increase towards the end of the decade, exactly when the 885s are supposed to start arriving.
    There is a serious deficit in the number of SSNs Russia can deploy today. Since you love comparisons to the US so much, why don't you go check how many the US has operational at any one point Smile .

    But yeah whatever, let's just wait for Rogozin's latest tweet about how there will be 8 new SSBNs and 8 new SSNs by 2020.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:26 am

    TR1 wrote:I don't care about Nayvfield and T055, I care about reality. Trying to make a situation look better than it is is just stupid.

    5 by 2016? Does reality change if you wish it to be so?

    Look @ the speed of the 2nd and 3rd boat, from laid down, to launched, to commissioned.

    Then look when the Knyaz Vladimir was laid down. Even allowing for the fact that its costruction effectively started earlier, the number simply do not add up. It is unlikely that it will be commissioned by 2016.

    But if the Knyaz Vladimir will be not many years off, 5th hull was only laid down this year. Please, explain to me how in any universe it could be ready by 2016.

    I maintain that they will be lucky to commission 5, at best 6 boats by 2020.

    As for Yasen, the situation is similar. I predict at best 4 submarines by 2020 in commission. And here the situation is actually even worse than for 955. The SSBN fleet is relying on the good status of the BDRMs, most of which are operational and are regularly overhauled and modernized.
    The SSN fleet however is in serious decline temporarily, since half of the 971 fleet is being repaired on modernized, as a result of never getting the midlife overhauls they should have gotten over the past 10 years.
    If there is anything rosy about the SSN fleet, I don't see it. Ironically they will seeing the operational fleet increase towards the end of the decade, exactly when the 885s are supposed to start arriving.
    There is a serious deficit in the number of SSNs Russia can deploy today. Since you love comparisons to the US so much, why don't you go check how many the US has operational at any one point Smile .

    But yeah whatever, let's just wait for Rogozin's latest tweet about how there will be 8 new SSBNs and 8 new SSNs by 2020.
    Never said you do, just that you share the same complaints and other attributes... 

    I said it was a "stretch"! Can you read (?), or did you flunk first grade? It is a very slim *possibility* and nothing more.

    Not very fast, but not terribly slow either... You also have to keep in mind that the production process will only get faster from here on out.

    Agreed to a point, six would be easy... 7-8 is (also) a *possibility*, but it depends on funding and the naval industry etc. 

    Yasen is doing fine, there is no need to rush em' out the door. The US is slowing production of the Virginia, and their next-gen model is going to be a piece of crap anyway!

    The fleet needs work, hence the reason it *is* getting work on... 

    Tell me how many SSK's the US has again? Oh wait... You seem to love kissing the US's butt, why not just move here if you love it so much? 

     - On the topic of SSN's, the US fleet is mostly based on aging 70's designed subs, sound familiar? - The 971 is actually newer...

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:39 am

    1.) No, it is not a very slim possibility. It is impossible, end of story.

    2.) What is your basis for assuming the production process will get faster? Any concrete facts? The first several boats (up through Monomakh) used parts of 971 boats. All the rest are brand new- so there will actually be more work to do. Also the project itself is a bit modified, and that naturally slows down the process. Aside from hull, internals are more modern. Does this sound like a recipe that will somehow magically speed up construction? Not to me.

    3.) I love how you assume the next American boat will be a piece of crap. Your critical thinking is no better than the guys at pro-American forums like F-16.net. Actually it is the same, but reserved to be pro-Russian to an insufferable degree. As for production speed, the US is far ahead of any other nuclear boat producing nation. Russia doesn't look bad compared to the others- the US is the one outlier. And yes, they do produce very quickly, impressively so.

    4.) By kissing the US butt, you mean laying out facts right? Something you consistently lack in your hoard of "Everything is great, Russia-strong!" messages.

    5.) Yes, the 971 is newer than the Los Angeles, but the real telling number is operational boats. Russia has ~5-6 deploy-able SSNs right now. The US has more New-gen (Seawolf and Virgnia) SSNs in operation than Russia has SSNs operational of any type.

    I can't stand Urra-patriotism, sorry.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:22 am

    TR1 wrote:1.) No, it is not a very slim possibility. It is impossible, end of story.

    2.) What is your basis for assuming the production process will get faster? Any concrete facts? The first several boats (up through Monomakh) used parts of 971 boats. All the rest are brand new- so there will actually be more work to do. Also the project itself is a bit modified, and that naturally slows down the process. Aside from hull, internals are more modern. Does this sound like a recipe that will somehow magically speed up construction? Not to me.

    3.) I love how you assume the next American boat will be a piece of crap. Your critical thinking is no better than the guys at pro-American forums like F-16.net. Actually it is the same, but reserved to be pro-Russian to an insufferable degree. As for production speed, the US is far ahead of any other nuclear boat producing nation. Russia doesn't look bad compared to the others- the US is the one outlier. And yes, they do produce very quickly, impressively so.

    4.) By kissing the US butt, you mean laying out facts right? Something you consistently lack in your hoard of "Everything is great, Russia-strong!" messages.

    5.) Yes, the 971 is newer than the Los Angeles, but the real telling number is operational boats. Russia has ~5-6 deploy-able SSNs right now. The US has more New-gen (Seawolf and Virgnia) SSNs in operation than Russia has SSNs operational of any type.

    I can't stand Urra-patriotism, sorry.
    Does it matter? I'm simply saying the chance is very, very, slim...

    Ever hear of experience (?), or is it something you don't have? Workers get more comfortable with their work, problems are avoided etc. There is proof in just about any area of production, it gets faster with experience and funding... In the famous words of yourself; "this is econ 101". 

    Oh, I wasn't suggesting that... - The next version of the Virginia will be a much more affordable model, one that exchanges performance for a larger armament. So it is made to be used against less capable navies, but primarily it is being built for land-attack. I wasn't suggesting that it will be bad, just that it won't really be comparable to the Yasen or other Virginia's for that matter... About "F-16.net", I'm less pro-
    Russian and more realist/anti-"US exceptionalism". The US can produce their subs faster, thanks to large funding and a large workforce. However, they are only working on one kind of sub, and none of them are export, while Russia is building SSN's, SSBN's, SSK's, export models, plus modernizing other older models. - Like a company producing one product, against one producing five.  Overall, Russia is *building a large number of subs, hence the slower speed*.

    Nice job avoiding what I said... For crying out loud, I have *no reason to like Russia, after all they are completely against my political and economical ideology*. - More of a "I hate how the US loves to demonize" kind of thing. At least Russia can repel them!

    Newer, *and superior"... Yeah, the US has more operational SSN's, but how good are they when they don't have adequate surface-combatant support (US surface combatants like the Tico only have the dated ASROC) and a complete lack of SSK's? SSN's are great, but they will have a tough time going up against a target that is half as loud or less (decibels). 

    I cannot stand idiocy and hypocrisy.

     - In war, the Russian Navy would be on defense closer to shore. Which means that the SSN's will get to support the SSK's and smaller (frigates etc) surface-combatants along with the larger ones. - While the US Navy will just be larger surface-combatants and SSN's. That gives Russia a huge advantage!

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:22 am

    I maintain that they will be lucky to commission 5, at best 6 boats by 2020.

    So you can wish to be true but others can't?

    Look @ the speed of the 2nd and 3rd boat, from laid down, to launched, to commissioned.

    Then look when the Knyaz Vladimir was laid down. Even allowing for the fact that its costruction effectively started earlier, the number simply do not add up. It is unlikely that it will be commissioned by 2016.

    But if the Knyaz Vladimir will be not many years off, 5th hull was only laid down this year. Please, explain to me how in any universe it could be ready by 2016.

    I maintain that they will be lucky to commission 5, at best 6 boats by 2020.

    And you are entitled to your view with no abuse from other members, perhaps you could do the same when reading optimistic estimates?

    Optimistic estimates are no less realistic than pessimistic ones.

    the conversion to domestic components will effect delivery rates but in standard practise, unless major changes from boat to boat are made production generally speeds up rather than stagnates at the same rate.

    A reality you seem happy to ignore.

    1.) No, it is not a very slim possibility. It is impossible, end of story.

    So your opinion is reality?

    Don't bother making claims and plans because you will always fall short.

    Has never been a reason for me not to make plans...

    All the rest are brand new- so there will actually be more work to do. Also the project itself is a bit modified, and that naturally slows down the process. Aside from hull, internals are more modern. Does this sound like a recipe that will somehow magically speed up construction? Not to me.

    Connecting new components is always quicker and easier than adapting new components with old equipment.

    3.) I love how you assume the next American boat will be a piece of crap. Your critical thinking is no better than the guys at pro-American forums like F-16.net. Actually it is the same, but reserved to be pro-Russian to an insufferable degree. As for production speed, the US is far ahead of any other nuclear boat producing nation. Russia doesn't look bad compared to the others- the US is the one outlier. And yes, they do produce very quickly, impressively so.

    The devil can probably create demons faster than god can make angels... is that a reason to change allegiances?

    the US is far more militarised than most countries on the planet... their propaganda just hides it better.

    5.) Yes, the 971 is newer than the Los Angeles, but the real telling number is operational boats. Russia has ~5-6 deploy-able SSNs right now. The US has more New-gen (Seawolf and Virgnia) SSNs in operation than Russia has SSNs operational of any type.

    Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees... the US has ten carrier battlegroups too... would Russia be superior... or bankrupt if it had 11?

    The US has a global empire to maintain and needs every one of its SSNs and more... WTF would Russia need 20 SSNs for?

    I can't stand Urra-patriotism, sorry.

    I can't stand pointless "dick measurer's" who think biggest or fastest is best for everyone and everything else is obsolete or unacceptable.


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:18 pm

    "Yekaterinburg" planned to be in sea on November 12

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:29 pm

    Russia Test Fires Intercontinental Missile From Submerged Nuclear Sub: Defense Ministry

    MOSCOW, November 5 (RIA Novosti) – A Russian Northern Fleet nuclear submarine on Wednesday fired a test intercontinental missile from the Barents Sea to the country's far eastern Kura Range on the Kamchatka Peninsula, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement Wednesday.

    "Within the frameworks of testing the reliability of marine strategic nuclear forces, the Tula [nuclear submarine] launched a Sineva intercontinental ballistic missile from the Barents Sea to the Kura Range [in Kamchatka]," the statement says.

    The RSM-54 intercontinental ballistic missile Sineva (NATO code name SS-N-23 Skiff) is part of the D-9RM launch system.

    The D-9RM launch system equipped with RSM-54 missiles was put into service in 1986. The production of the RSM-54 was halted in 1996 but after three years, the Russian government resumed the production of a modernized version of the missile.

    Flight tests of Sineva were completed in 2004, and in 2007 the Russian Navy put the missile into service.

    On October 29, Russia successfully test-fired the Bulava solid propellant ballistic missile from the Borey-class Yury Dolgoruky nuclear-powered submarine. The missile was launched from the Barents Sea and hit a target located on the Kura Range.

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    Sineva Launch

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:39 pm

    Sineva Launch


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Viktor on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:54 pm

    Two more days .... thumbsup

    Submarine "Yekaterinburg" after repair will be released in the sea for sea trials

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  partizan on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:21 pm

    If I understand corectly, she will be armed with liner instead sineva, right?

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:44 pm

    And here Ekaterinburg goes - armed to the theeth





    http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:29 pm

    Viktor wrote:And here Ekaterinburg goes - armed to the theeth





    http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/

    Bon Voyage !!! russia

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:33 am

    partizan wrote:If I understand corectly, she will be armed with liner instead sineva, right?

    That's what the report from the link says.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:20 pm

    Submarine fleet will receive "Yekaterinburg" on December 19

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Viktor on Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:40 pm

    Round the clock Very Happy

    SSBN "Tula" came the next repair

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  Viktor on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 am

    Yekaterinburg is back in the game thumbsup


    Submarine "Yekaterinburg" returns to the Russian Navy after repair

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:08 pm


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  max steel on Wed May 06, 2015 10:49 am

    Ryazan submarine of the Project 667BDR/Delta III class has been transferred to the covered dry dock at the Zvezda plant. According to a representative of the plant, the submarine is undergoing repairs and is will return to service at some unspecified date.

    The submarine, which was transferred to the Pacific from the Northern Fleet in 2008, was moved to the Zvezda plant in 2012. Previous overhaul was completed in 2007.



    It is not clear what is the purpose of this overhaul. Submarines of this class are fairly old - they were built in the late 1970s-early 1980s. Although submarines can still stay in service if properly maintained, the missiles that they carry, R-29R, are probably past their useful lives at this point. START data shows that Project 667BDR submarines have been withdrawn from service in recent years. One possibility is that the submarine will be used for launches of the Volna space launcher - K-44 Ryazan was used as a launch platform back in July 2002.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  runaway on Wed May 06, 2015 2:08 pm

    max steel wrote:Ryazan submarine of the Project 667BDR/Delta III class has been transferred to the covered dry dock at the Zvezda plant. According to a representative of the plant, the submarine is undergoing repairs and is will return to service at some unspecified date.

    The submarine, which was transferred to the Pacific from the Northern Fleet in 2008, was moved to the Zvezda plant in 2012. Previous overhaul was completed in 2007.



    It is not clear what is the purpose of this overhaul. Submarines of this class are fairly old - they were built in the late 1970s-early 1980s. Although submarines can still stay in service if properly maintained, the missiles that they carry, R-29R, are probably past their useful lives at this point. START data shows that Project 667BDR submarines have been withdrawn from service in recent years. One possibility is that the submarine will be used for launches of the Volna space launcher - K-44 Ryazan was used as a launch platform back in July 2002.

    Perhaps only a Life extending refit, to keep it going until 2018, or it will be decomisioned after a while. The Borei´s are hitting the water in numbers so i see Little Point wasting to much Money on old delta 3´s.

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 07, 2015 1:54 am

    Refitting it as a space launcher, or as they did with another Delta III,they adapted it into a rescue boat/special forces delivery vessel. Any of the above would be useful... in fact a hybrid with one SLBM launch tube and diver accomodation... delivery... and recovery facilities and rescue equipment and you could use it for a range of tasks... for a few years.

    You could experiment with upgrade ideas that can be applied to later more customised upgrades or from scratch designs.


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:56 pm

    can't hardly wait to see it on google earth...
    BS-64 is out now!
    http://zvezdochka-ru.livejournal.com/281678.html


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:20 pm

    rambo54 wrote:can't hardly wait to see it on google earth...
    BS-64 is out now!
    http://zvezdochka-ru.livejournal.com/281678.html


    it has been modified as special purpose submarines. It doesn't carry any SLBMs any more


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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:36 pm

    I know -
    but it's still Delta IV (Stretched)
    misplaced?

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    Re: Project 667BDRM: Delta IV

    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:32 pm

    rambo54 wrote:I know -
    but it's still Delta IV (Stretched)
    misplaced?

    no its ok, i just reported some info


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