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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    George1
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:39 pm

    photo of 885 without escape capsule


    Austin
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:03 am

    Interview with Malachite Chief

    http://ria.ru/interview/20141215/1037925421.html

    Honesroc
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Honesroc on Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:57 pm

    SEVERODVINSK /Arkhangelsk Region/, December 26. /TASS/. The seventh and eigth Borei-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines will be laid down by the end of 2015, the head of the Rubin design bureau said on Friday.
    Igor Vilnit said the key task of designers and shipbuilders is not the increase of the number of submarines but maintenance of those boats that are currently in service.
    Mikhail Budnichenko, the head of the Sevmash shipyard, told TASS that three Project 885M Yasen-class attack submarines and two Borei-class submarines will be laid down next year.
    The Borei-class ballistic-missile submarines are to become the backbone of the Russian Navy's strategic nuclear deterrent.
    The submarines displace 24,000 tons, reach speeds of 29 knots (some 54 km per hour), can dive to 450 meters and carry crews of 107 people. The vessels will be armed with up to 16 Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles, which have a range of over 8,000 kilometers.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:06 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:In my view, if one asked me who's more silent between Yasen or Virginia.. I'll say both of them may have same level of silencing. How so ? Since 1980's or perhaps mid 1970's Soviet start emphsize more in their boat's silencing start from 671RTM and the research, hmm according to Norman Polmar's cold war submarine book is not affected by fall of Soviet, slow down maybe but by no means stopped.

    There also law of diminishing return. Tom Stefanick's "Strategic Anti Submarine Warfare and Naval Strategy" Have a good review on Submarine silencing method and how to quantify them, it stated that US already achieved level of submarine silencing in Ohio class that so low that their own sonar technology can only detect it at around 1000 yards.  Any lower than that there would be no benefit in both financial and military respect. Thus it's unlikely that current latest US submarine would be more quiet than Ohio.

    Anyway in 35 Knot.. forget about silencing as propellers and perhaps the submarine's own hull will cavitate, happily add lots of decibels to the submarine's acoustic signature. That applies to both Virginia and Yasen.
    always wondered if it is possible to make a sort of destructive interference device to cancel out the noise. and sonar is just one channel, there's thermal, tv, radar, magnetic, sea level rise, and gravity - and the soviets and subsequently russians are investing in these means of detection, arguably more so than their western counterparts.

    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:53 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    always wondered if it is possible to make a sort of destructive interference device to cancel out the noise. and sonar is just one channel, there's thermal, tv, radar, magnetic, sea level rise, and gravity - and the soviets and subsequently russians are investing in these means of detection, arguably more so than their western counterparts.

    That could be possible if the noise's frequency and phase is exactly known. This work and probably already applied for engine room silencing for modern submarines along with usual machinery bed-plate for absorbing noise.

    For non-acoustic means of detection such as Detection of submarine's surface wave and kelvin wave as well as thermal and other disturbances (say gravity) Unfortunately there aren't much info around. Nonetheless as far as i know, those disturbances are either too small to be resolvable by sensors or easily countered by the submarine going deeper.

    Would love to see more in the subject though. Anyway i really reccommends that Tom Stefanick's book for reading.. Very enlightening.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:13 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:In my view, if one asked me who's more silent between Yasen or Virginia.. I'll say both of them may have same level of silencing. How so ? Since 1980's or perhaps mid 1970's Soviet start emphsize more in their boat's silencing start from 671RTM and the research, hmm according to Norman Polmar's cold war submarine book is not affected by fall of Soviet, slow down maybe but by no means stopped.

    There also law of diminishing return. Tom Stefanick's "Strategic Anti Submarine Warfare and Naval Strategy" Have a good review on Submarine silencing method and how to quantify them, it stated that US already achieved level of submarine silencing in Ohio class that so low that their own sonar technology can only detect it at around 1000 yards.  Any lower than that there would be no benefit in both financial and military respect. Thus it's unlikely that current latest US submarine would be more quiet than Ohio.

    BTW this is a nice graph from Tom Stefanick's book about US Vs Soviet silencing.






    Anyway in 35 Knot.. forget about silencing as propellers and perhaps the submarine's own hull will cavitate, happily add lots of decibels to the submarine's acoustic signature. That applies to both Virginia and Yasen.

    Something you need to be aware. is that soviet navy ,just like Russian navy have do not use their best silent mode in peace times.. you don't show your enemies your best card before there is a war. So all that tables and charts..
    if ever are accurate.. which i doubt.. it will only show Russian submarine noise in peacetime.. not in war time..

    kvs
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:32 am

    It was one of the Cold War propaganda tropes. Like the one about Soviet ICBMs not being accurate. Anybody with a brain and
    a clue could see this as nothing more than trash talk. If you can inject satellites into specific orbits you can damned well hit some
    freaking target. As if Soviet gyroscopes did not follow the laws of physics that the American ones did. And atmospheric fluid dynamics
    had no impact in Yankee uber tech. What a joke!

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Kyo on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:48 pm

    Russia's fifth Yasen-class nuclear sub to be laid down on March 19 — source

    MOSCOW, February 6. /TASS/. The fifth Yasen-class multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine will be laid down at the Sevmash shipyard in Northwest Russia on March 19. It will be named Arkhangelsk, a Russian defense industry source told TASS on Friday.
    "The Yasen-class submarine that will be dubbed Arkhangelsk will be laid down at Sevmash on March 19," the source said.
    The head of the Sevmash shipyard in December told TASS that three Project 885M Yasen-class attack submarines and two Borei-class submarines will be laid down in 2015.

    George1
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:15 am

    Order for lighting conditions and target designation "3C-30" complexes for 5 885M project "Ash-M" nuclear multipurpose submarines.

    Northern Machine Building Enterprise posted on the official website of the public procurement information on the award in 2014. contract with Concern "Granit-Electron" for the supply of five complexes "3C-30.0-M." Supplied products are radio-electronic integrated lighting system surveillance and target designation.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1211461.html

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:50 am

    Russia begins construction of fifth Yasen class nuclear sub

    Yasen-class subs will become the main multipurpose nuclear-powered submarines in the Russian military

    ARKHANGELSK, March 19. /TASS/. The fifth nuclear-powered multipurpose attack submarine of the Yasen class will be laid down today at the Sevmash shipbuilding company based in Severodvinsk, the company’s press service told TASS on Thursday.

    The submarine, dubbed the Arkhangelsk, was designed by the St. Petersburg-based Malakhit company with the employment of novel technical decisions, the press service said.

    The first Yasen-class submarine, the Severodvinsk, was built at Sevmash and handed to the Russian Armed Forces in June 2014.

    "Multipurpose nuclear-powered submarines - Kazan, Novosibirsk and Krasonyarsk - are under construction at the Severodvinsk shipyard in the framework of the upgraded Yasen-M project. The changes are connected with the element base of the electronic weapons system, modernized equipment and materials, which will be supplied exclusively by Russian produces," the press service noted.

    According to Russia’s naval doctrine, Yasen-class subs will become the main multipurpose nuclear-powered submarines in the Russian military. Sevmash will build eight Yasen-class subs with cruise missiles by 2020.

    ult
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  ult on Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:12 pm


    Honesroc
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Honesroc on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:05 pm

    Severodvinsk going in for repairs next month.

    http://www.flotprom.ru/2015/188522/

    ult
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  ult on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:27 pm

    Honesroc wrote:Severodvinsk going in for repairs next month.

    http://www.flotprom.ru/2015/188522/

    According to the people from the airbase forums - it's just a regular maintenance service.

    Arkhangelsk's plate.


    George1
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:28 pm

    Honesroc wrote:Severodvinsk going in for repairs next month.

    http://www.flotprom.ru/2015/188522/

    Οnly after 1 year in service?

    Viktor
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Viktor on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:31 pm

    [quote="ult"]
    Honesroc wrote:According to the people from the airbase forums - it's just a regular maintenance service.

    Yes, after it passed successfully all max. deep sea tests

    2015Submarine "Severodvinsk" was successfully tested

    TR1
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:07 am

    George1 wrote:
    Honesroc wrote:Severodvinsk going in for repairs next month.

    http://www.flotprom.ru/2015/188522/

    Οnly after 1 year in service?

    Just some small work apparently.

    It is an experimental boat in any case, hardly a serial unit.

    rambo54
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:06 pm

    Meanwhile we have a lot of satellite images of K-329 seeing her at Severodvinsk and Murmansk.
    If you are using the ruler in google earth you can easily verify that the length of the ship is significant longer than the official 119m.
    In fact the boat is 136-140m long. It seems that especially the section bow/sail and sail/missile hatches are longer than on drawings.
    Any ideas why we don't have an official statement/correction of these data?

    Here are some examples








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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:08 pm

    Thus ending all spekculation Very Happy

    Russian Navy until 2020 received seven submarines of the "Ash"

    No reductions are planned

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:18 pm

    So they talk about 8 boats by 2020 for years, and now suddenly 7 is no reductions?

    Hmmm.
    Also let's be honest, we all know there won't be 7 of these boats in the navy by 2020.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:37 pm

    This is the first time a nuclear strategic asset(borei) will outnumber the tactical one(yasen), hence less escorts than the escorted. If this happens the russian boomer fleet will become more vulnerable and reduce the conventional attack capability.

    A doomsday weapon SSBN is far less versatile and useful than an SSGN therefore having more boreis is a complete waste.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:23 pm

    Actually a strategic weapon is a deterrent... if you don't have that theatre weapons become meaningless.

    They can always make more SSGNs later but the priority is to ensure MAD... having 7 or 8 Yasens wont effect MAD.


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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually a strategic weapon is a deterrent... if you don't have that theatre weapons become meaningless.

    They can always make more SSGNs later but the priority is to ensure MAD... having 7 or 8 Yasens wont effect MAD.
    Given the anemic working shipyard capacity and building rate "later" will be too late.

    MAD has already been achieved a long time ago. The US didn't go nuclear on russia in the 90s when it was practically a sitting duck and their's even less a chance now. Now the US is somewhere between farting and outright shitting in it's pants just by the existance of the Topol-M, Yars, and soon Sarmat. By the time all 8 boreis come out the americans will be constantly wearing diapers.

    The SSBN fleet isn't russia's primary tool in it's triad anyway, so suddenly spending too much on it is gonna be useless. SSBNs are overrated anyway. They don't have an advantage over land based mobile ICBMs which have equal stealth and are much cheaper to boot, and neither have the geopolitical deterrence factor and muscle flexing versatility of strategic bombers. That is why IMHO Russia focusing on land based ICBMs and bombers is enough.

    The only reason the US relies so much on SSBNs is because it's ICBM and nuclear bomber fleet are obsolete aging immobile cold war dinosaurs. Russia doesn't have this problem therefore as I said spending massive amounts on a large SSBN fleet is superfluous.  

    Also having more MAD weapons is completely useless at countering NGO regime change, the principal threat Russia should be focusing on countering.

    Meanwhile having more yasens will increase massively Russia's carrier killing capability, and if the US's carriers are sunk it's already lost the war. That way if the need arises Russia can defeat NATO without causing a nuclear holocaust.  Yasen's are also far less vulnerable to enemy subs and  can do far more types of missions(special force extraction, minelaying, etc.).

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:29 am

    SSBN's are an insurance policy being the hardest to detect.

    Russian ones don't need to sail far to launch their missiles

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:05 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Meanwhile having more yasens will increase massively Russia's carrier killing capability, and if the US's carriers are sunk it's already lost the war. That way if the need arises Russia can defeat NATO without causing a nuclear holocaust.  Yasen's are also far less vulnerable to enemy subs and  can do far more types of missions(special force extraction, minelaying, etc.).
    you just need better standoff weapons and surveillance systems to defeat carriers. updated rorsats and scramjet anti-ship missiles are just that and they are working on them atm. an oscar 2 should be plenty for such a role too- not to mention probably most suited, since it has the greatest missile capacity apart from SSBNs.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:28 am

    Cyberspec wrote:SSBN's are an insurance policy being the hardest to detect.

    Russian ones don't need to sail far to launch their missiles
    Russia is already insured for decades. Spending billions on a few more SSBNs won't change shit on the political decisions of the west. If only the funds allocated to the next 3 boreis were given to Rusnano and Roscosmos...

    But alas, the russian leadership seams to have become infected with the "bomber gap" mental desease, the same which made americans waste billions of $$$ to counter an mythical threat of an imminent soviet nuclear bomber attack, but this time it involves the ABM shield(legitimate concern) and supposed US SSBN imminent first strike(baloney)...

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