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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    artjomh

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  artjomh on Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:44 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    artjomh wrote:All submarines starting with Kazan got only indigenous components.

    artjomh, can a submarine fire torpedos at an [adversary] submarine that is behind it (maybe by changing gyro angles)? Thanks.

    Why not?

    Even in Word War II submarines used to fire torpedoes at targets with bearing over 45 deg, using stern torpedo tubes. You don't have stern tubes anymore because torpedos can maneuver now (and ship structure is radically different today), but the principle is pretty much the same.

    There was even one incident during WW2 where an American submarine essentially torpedoed itself because the torpedo circled around back on the mother sub.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:43 am

    artjomh wrote:
    jhelb wrote:
    artjomh wrote:All submarines starting with Kazan got only indigenous components.

    artjomh, can a submarine fire torpedos at an [adversary] submarine that is behind it (maybe by changing gyro angles)? Thanks.

    Why not?

    Even in Word War II submarines used to fire torpedoes at targets with bearing over 45 deg, using stern torpedo tubes. You don't have stern tubes anymore because torpedos can maneuver now (and ship structure is radically different today), but the principle is pretty much the same.

    There was even one incident during WW2 where an American submarine essentially torpedoed itself because the torpedo circled around back on the mother sub.

    Those were just the tip of the iceberg back then.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:51 pm

    Russian Pacific Fleet to get first Yasen sub 2017-2018 — deputy commander

    i expected more speed in construction of yasen class


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    George1

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:29 am



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    Isos

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:09 pm

    What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:16 pm


    Severodvinsk testing complete:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/75512/
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:52 pm

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    x_54_u43

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  x_54_u43 on Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:09 am

    Isos wrote:What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar   ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?

    Found your problem.

    Also, forget about trying to find information on one of the most sensitive pieces of equipment on a submarine that is brand new.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:12 am

    Severodvinsk tested firings of torpedo "Физик".

    http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/633373.html


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    Isos

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:28 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar   ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?

    Found your problem.

    Also, forget about trying to find information on one of the most sensitive pieces of equipment on a submarine that is brand new.

    It's not said just on wikipedia that French sonars are among the best.

    I didn't meant technical information but some interview of ex sailors about their experience, or something like that.

    I have read once on an article a comment (looked like it was true but who knows) made by an ex french sailor who said during a nato maritime exercice consisting in finding ennemy subs, a soviet sub surfaced in the center of the nato formation undetected while all the ships had activated their active search sonars. The immadiatly ended the exercice and tried to found it.
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    TheArmenian

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    The sixth submarine of Project 885 Yasen will be called PERM.

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:45 pm

    The sixth submarine of Project 885 Yasen will be called PERM.

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201604051408-1bcc.htm
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:00 pm

    Isos wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar   ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?

    Found your problem.

    Also, forget about trying to find information on one of the most sensitive pieces of equipment on a submarine that is brand new.

    It's not said just on wikipedia that French sonars are among the best.

    I didn't meant technical information but some interview of ex sailors about their experience, or something like that.

    I have read once on an article a comment (looked like it was true but who knows) made by an ex french sailor who said during a nato maritime exercice consisting in finding ennemy subs, a soviet sub surfaced in the center of the nato formation undetected while all the ships had activated their active search sonars. The immadiatly ended the exercice and tried to found it.

    you ever find any historical backing for this, that sounds like it would be an interesting read.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Militarov on Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:14 pm

    Militarov wrote:"Severodvinsk" (885):





    Testing Kalibr













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    Isos

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:38 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar   ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?

    Found your problem.

    Also, forget about trying to find information on one of the most sensitive pieces of equipment on a submarine that is brand new.

    It's not said just on wikipedia that French sonars are among the best.

    I didn't meant technical information but some interview of ex sailors about their experience, or something like that.

    I have read once on an article a comment (looked like it was true but who knows) made by an ex french sailor who said during a nato maritime exercice consisting in finding ennemy subs, a soviet sub surfaced in the center of the nato formation undetected while all the ships had activated their active search sonars. The immadiatly ended the exercice and tried to found it.

    you ever find any historical backing for this, that sounds like it would be an interesting read.

    No I didn't. The better articles are made by ex sailors that tell their experiences but it's difficult to find them.

    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun May 01, 2016 4:57 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the capacities of the Yasen's sonar   ?

    I just found on the wikipedia article of the Astute class that its Thales 2056 sonar is the best and was tested against a Virginia class.

    Do you have some article in English about russian sonars ?

    Found your problem.

    Also, forget about trying to find information on one of the most sensitive pieces of equipment on a submarine that is brand new.


    The build in main sonar of the submarines good only against noisy targets,active searching and for communication.

    The main sonar to detect enemy submarines is the towed sonar(s) .

    The main sonar performance practically irrelevant .Even a side flank array can give higher detection performance the the main spherical or cylindrical array.


    Of course you has to rotate the ship to to scann all direction, but that is a small penalty compared to the performance.


    Austin

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:35 am

    Yasen


    Austin

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:58 am

    Is Sonar of Yasen same as shown in this graphic ? I can see a huge rectangular sonar on the middle of the hull


    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Singular_trafo on Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:58 pm

    Austin wrote:Is Sonar of Yasen same as shown in this graphic ? I can see a huge rectangular sonar on the middle of the hull


    Implausible.

    Very expensive.More sensible if they using several,small sensor block installed in a line on the side of the submarine, say at least with 1.5 meter distance each.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:22 am

    a rectangle that size looks more like a crew compartment area like living quarters or the command area, or the location of something like an AIP etc etc.

    Of course the flank arrays can be enormous on a Soviet or Russian sub as they are outside of the pressure hull...


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    TheRealist

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TheRealist on Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:28 pm

    Perm is now officially a go.

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  hoom on Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:35 pm

    That section looks kinda narrow for such a big Sub Suspect

    Regarding that large rectangle on the side, there are a couple of pics of Severodvinsk launch that show some kind of rectangle there, a big passive array seems pretty likely to me.

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:10 am

    According to this article only 7 Yasens will be made.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160729/1043755852/russia-nuclear-submarines.html

    shame, they need at least ten of them.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:13 am

    hoom wrote:That section looks kinda narrow for such a big Sub Suspect
    I guess it is the inner pressure hull.
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    kvs

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:05 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    hoom wrote:That section looks kinda narrow for such a big Sub Suspect
    I guess it is the inner pressure hull.

    Why assume it is not from the narrowing tail part? The gap between the inner outer hulls is not that large.

    Austin

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:13 am

    interview with Tass general director of St. Petersburg Maritime Engineering Bureau "Malachite" Vladimir Dorofeev.

    http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/3492321

    ain features multipurpose nuclear submarines of the fifth generation, which today are designed in Russia, largely defined during the creation of submarine Project 885 "Ash". In the future, two major classes of submarines - a strategic and multi-purpose - remain as completely "unmanned" submarine with a modular, interchangeable weapons can not be done, and do not need.

    On this and many other things on the eve of the Naval Fleet Day in an interview with Tass general director of St. Petersburg Maritime Engineering Bureau "Malachite" Vladimir Dorofeev.

    - As the Russian navy and developers see today, "the submarine of the future"?


    - The General Staff of the Armed Forces and the Navy form the shape of a ship in the form of technical, operational and tactical tasks.

    Think through the life-support systems, providing daily service ships, their combat use, communication systems, targeting systems, shore-based questions.

    The concept of partial modularity universalization tasks "Ash" showed its full vitality. Decisions underlying the creation of multi-purpose submarines of the Russian Navy, passed the test of time and will be implemented to create the fifth-generation submarines. When you create a fifth-generation submarines will take into account the results of the construction, testing, experimental and normal operation of the parent submarine Project 885 "Severodvinsk".

    - When the first ship of the fifth generation can be realized "iron"? This will be after 2020?


    - This is the ship that will surely be laid after 2020. To date, work on its creation are deployed, but I would like to note that these studies have been started long before we began to talk about the fifth-generation submarines. It is the creation of new construction materials, new technical solutions in the field of nuclear energy, electronics and others.

    - In an interview, you talked about the possibility of implementing a common information space, which will not only link the underwater and surface ships, and aircraft, onshore facilities. Is it possible in the near future to introduce a network-centric system?

    In general, the Navy has long existed in a single information space. In itself, it is no use to anyone, and is valuable only if allows for some potential, reduces the time of decision-making, increases the reliability of communicating commands and noise immunity. Navy by their very nature, these principles have long implants.

    Ships are often far removed from the base, a long-range weapon that requires extensive news coverage in terms of getting target indications.

    Another thing is that on ways to improve the system are carried out targeted work, which are the species in nature. This integration into a unified space of the Ministry of Defense. Now, of course, it is the realization of such a single information space.

    - This is important for the submarine stealth, so that during such an active exchange of information it is not simply "spotted"?


    - For submarines this problem is more than controversial. The entry into this space, the exchange of information, of course, are good, but there may be unmasking factor.

    - So, developed new technical solutions? Former Navy Commander Vladimir Vysotsky once said, even the establishment of ties on the basis of blue-green laser.

    - In this case the great role of fundamental science, innovative research, unexpected solutions. At one time, it was opened sonar channels that allow you to spread the sound of the significant distances. It was discovered through research of the oceans, and, probably, this effect may have a dual use.

    - There is much talk about the "unmanned" submarines. Is it possible for the Premier League, while maintaining its size, power, electronics and weapons to be completely uninhabitable? Or is it fantasy?


    There are a number of tasks that can more effectively carry out unmanned vehicles - submersibles. Today we are witnessing a rapid growth and development of unmanned underwater systems. The objectives of such devices, as a rule, are local - this anti-mine defense, intelligence functions, the protection of waters. But there are complex issues that require direct human decision making. And this is only possible if the crew on the submarine.

    I am confident that the future joint use of submarines to unmanned underwater vehicles .

    - Separation of strategic and multi-purpose submarines continue? Or the future of modular ships with interchangeable "units" weapons?

    - In today's strategic and multi-purpose submarines largely similar electronic weapons systems, communications, same mechanical components.Serial and universalization of systems and facilitates training of personnel, and operation of ships.

    But, on the other hand, there are objective indicators that do not allow to take a multi-purpose submarine and place it on ballistic missiles. Multi-purpose ship means a higher flexibility than that of a strategist, a lower noise at high speeds.

    Today, there are strong arguments that call into question the possibility of absolute universalization of submarines for the type of weapon.

    - Do we need submarines, which in Soviet times was called "aircraft carrier killer"?


    - On "Ash" placed universal launchers, which allow the use of cruise missiles for various purposes without any alterations, without any changes in the electronic equipment.

    These submarines are versatile hunters. Depending on the payload "Ash" can solve the problem against the aircraft carrier compounds, surface ships, amphibious troops, convoys, coastal targets, anti-submarine task.

    - Periodically, there are publications that have the head "Ash" problems of noise that the submarine did not confirm some of the set parameters.

    - Rumors about the failures of "Ash" let them remain rumors. "Malachite" as the creator of such a complex modern ship is a multi-purpose nuclear submarine, of course, knows all of his "childhood diseases" and "sore". Those design decisions that need to be improved, to be implemented during the construction of the ships series. It is normal practice.

    Military shipbuilding deprived of the opportunity to build a prototype submarine designed for testing only. Head ship immediately created so that after the test to be accepted into the combat fleet and perform its intended purpose. What, in fact, "Ash" now and busy.

    - And yet it was built too long ...


    - For this there is no need to make excuses. Start of construction of the ship due to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the loss of co-operation, because many businesses were generally in other countries outside of the Russian Federation.

    Those problems and serious issues that are objectively required time, allowed to come to the fact that at the time of the imposition of sanctions in the construction of "Ash" is not used components from the near or far abroad. Russia objectively self-sufficient in creating a modern submarine fleet.

    - Speaking of which, if satisfied with the living conditions of seafarers on the head, "Ash"? Is there a swimming pool, a sauna?


    - Area of ​​habitability - the most delicate moment. We all Equips their homes, and the sailors in this regard is no exception. The months-long voyage, they form around themselves an environment that may not be entirely consistent with some regulations, but gives them a feeling of home.

    Basin on "Ash", unfortunately, no, but there is a sauna. There is also a fitness center, and lounges. In the multi-purpose submarines by definition more closely than strategic. This feature class multi-purpose ships.

    But it can not allow the crew lived on the principle of "warm" beds, where one sailor gets up to keep watch, and the other lies in his place. Such conditions were diesel-electric submarines of the first generation. Residential compartments of modern atomic submarine, and spacious, and in his own cozy. their creation requirements are very strict.

    - How "Ash-M" will be different from its predecessors 885-year project?


    - It will take a little time, and the lead ship 885M project "Kazan" will be launched.

    Less than a year "Kazan" is due out at the factory sea trials in the White Sea. Then we see how much has changed the face of the modernized "Ash". I can only assure you that both the swiftness and smoothness of hull lines "Ash", of course, remain and the modernized ship.

    - The completion of the construction of a series of "Ash" is not changed?

    - Nothing changes, it's still 2023. Construction of multi-purpose submarines group is on schedule, in accordance with the contracts.

    - What foreign customers interested in the project "Malachite"?


    - If we are talking about military-technical cooperation, the Russian partners are traditional. These are the countries of Asia and Africa. Show interest in Latin American countries. Hopefully in the future we can talk about some real contracts.

    We offer for export of diesel-electric submarines, small displacement, in particular by the project on the basis of sabotage submarine "Piranha". At the time of the Soviet fleet of three such ships were built. We carry a project development of diesel-electric submarines with a displacement of up to 1 thousand tons.

    - A Russian navy is interested in midget submarines sabotage?


    - We conduct technical consultations with representatives of the Navy for the entire spectrum of emerging "malachite" ships, including for non-nuclear submarines of small displacement. So far, unfortunately, this has not led to the conclusion of any contract.

    However, the situation surrounding maritime theaters recently changed significantly. Are changing and the Navy task. In this connection, we can assume that the interest on the part of the Russian fleet will increase to such submarines. The more that modern small displacement submarine can accommodate systems with better performance than the previous generation of submarines.

    - That is a small submarine can be "lard" and avionics, and weapons?

    - Weapons, too, "umneet" and improved. To destroy certain number of goals in a salvo of torpedoes hypothetically it can be reduced. On the one hand, a small commando submarine ammunition, on the other - will allow to solve the problems that stand in the near maritime zone with the required efficiency.

    These vehicles are used in areas with shallow depth of immersion. For them, the more urgent is the reduction of electromagnetic fields and the visual signature. Submarine in shallow water is still visible, especially if the water is clear enough.

    - Is it possible to use airindependent power plant (VNEU) on these submarines?


    - This is one of the possible options.

    - If the job to design a series of submarines still arrive, whether the "Malachite" necessary competences to create VNEU?


    - "Malachite" is really development on the creation VNEU for NNS displacement of up to a thousand tons. This is no accident - Office was created in 1948 as the time for the project airindependent installation of diesel-electric submarines.

    Within the walls of "Malachite", two projects have been completed - 615 th and 617 th. One of them is equipped with a diesel engine operating in a closed cycle, and the second hydrogen peroxide used as the working fluid for steam and gas turbine installation. It was only later, in the 1950s, "Malachite" put these projects with our colleagues from the "Ruby", and he focused on nuclear issues.

    - At what stage are the work of "Malachite" on VNEU?


    - We have created a valid sample VNEU poster. It should confirm the actual installation work for different models of operation, including time-consuming. For example, the stand simulates VNEU work under water in a closed cycle. We have already received some experimental results, which are now analyzed. Submitted stand improvement. I think that by the end of this year we will continue to further the development and bench testing.

    I believe that in 2017 in the scientific and technical council "Malachite", we will demonstrate the Navy and USC achievements. At the same time, and it will decide on further tests in the sea.

    - What kind of autonomy will VNEU sabotage the submarine?


    - Feature diesel-electric submarines of small displacement is that they are used in the near maritime zone, and their work is, in principle, does not imply a large autonomy. It will largely be determined by the crew life support, not VNEU properties. And of course, submarines of this type requires a large reserve, instead of cruising range.

    - Whether domestic shipbuilding will return to the creation of the titanium submarines?


    - About this debate that flares up anew, then it subsides. There is a deep-water area of ​​shipbuilding, in which titanium has no rivals as a construction material. Alternative high-strength titanium alloys in the industry are hard to find. If we talk about multi-purpose submarines, then, of course, the cost of manufacturing titanium case is higher than the steel body. On the other side of the scale is high corrosion resistance of titanium, its low electromagnetic fields. Open or closed this question definitively, maybe, only time will tell.

    - Will recover titanium submarine "Carp" and "Kostroma", Nizhny Novgorod designed CDB "Lapis"?


    - The decision about their fate should take the fleet.

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