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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:36 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    So you believe the Navy made the right decision to upgrade the RNS Admiral Nakhimov battlecruiser?

    Of course! Project 1144 ships are, first and foremost, an excellent hull made of AK-25 grade steel, and a nuclear propulsion unit. The hull is made of two layers of steel, the outer layer being stainless steel. That hull will last forever. It can be used for 40, 50, or even 60 years. It has unique biological and structural protection systems. It is designed very intelligently, using great technological solutions. A combination of a great hull and a nuclear propulsion unit is a platform that can be put to almost any use. Let us also recall the great structural defenses that ship has. It’s a special design that prevents missiles from penetrating the ship’s ammunition dumps by means of a series of barriers. Yes, the ship’s various systems and pipelines, as well as its armaments, need to be replaced, but the main thing, the platform itself, it fit for purpose. I believe that all four ships of that class must be refurbished and brought back into service.
    [/b]

    Interesting comment.  I've often wondered whether the Ural SV-33 (Proj 1941) is really going to be scrapped... since photos seem to suggest that they are stripping the ship of its superstructure and heavy deck equipment, but they are leaving the hull and below decks intact.  Google earth images of Bolshoi Kaman in March 2016 show a complete hull stripped down to the deck, yet current images show no trace of the ship.  Its impossible that a nuclear powered hull would be stripped to to the hull plates and vanish within 12 months, so where is she?  Has she been towed elsewhere for preservation awaiting the option of a future rebuild?

    The disposal work was to be finished by November at the latest it's quite possible they finished up a bit early really. They could have moved the hull to a reserve area sure if you know where the Russians keep those, which I do.

    Yeah, the more I think about it, its likely that "disposal" doesn't mean complete scrapping (as this would require specialist facilities to handle dismantling of the nuclear reactor and irradiated machinery), but means strip-down and preservation of the hull and essentials.

    Don't suppose you can share that knowledge on where such a "reserve area" may be located?  Very Happy

    Disposal, in this case, means scraped, the contract was to have the hull scraped by November at the most. The entire ship gone into pieces to be clear

    I don't know if the hull is in a reserve dockyard right now, I'd need to check and that would take ages. I have heard nor seen anything to suggest the Russians kept the hull so at this point consider it scrapped.

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:40 am

    Firebird wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    So you believe the Navy made the right decision to upgrade the RNS Admiral Nakhimov battlecruiser?

    Of course! Project 1144 ships are, first and foremost, an excellent hull made of AK-25 grade steel, and a nuclear propulsion unit. The hull is made of two layers of steel, the outer layer being stainless steel. That hull will last forever. It can be used for 40, 50, or even 60 years. It has unique biological and structural protection systems. It is designed very intelligently, using great technological solutions. A combination of a great hull and a nuclear propulsion unit is a platform that can be put to almost any use. Let us also recall the great structural defenses that ship has. It’s a special design that prevents missiles from penetrating the ship’s ammunition dumps by means of a series of barriers. Yes, the ship’s various systems and pipelines, as well as its armaments, need to be replaced, but the main thing, the platform itself, it fit for purpose. I believe that all four ships of that class must be refurbished and brought back into service.
    [/b]

    Interesting comment.  I've often wondered whether the Ural SV-33 (Proj 1941) is really going to be scrapped... since photos seem to suggest that they are stripping the ship of its superstructure and heavy deck equipment, but they are leaving the hull and below decks intact.  Google earth images of Bolshoi Kaman in March 2016 show a complete hull stripped down to the deck, yet current images show no trace of the ship.  Its impossible that a nuclear powered hull would be stripped to to the hull plates and vanish within 12 months, so where is she?  Has she been towed elsewhere for preservation awaiting the option of a future rebuild?

    The disposal work was to be finished by November at the latest it's quite possible they finished up a bit early really. They could have moved the hull to a reserve area sure if you know where the Russians keep those, which I do.

    Seriously, the hull is being stored? I assumed it was all scrapped?

    I know 1 or 2 of the Boreis or Yasens actually used hulls from earlier classes of sub.
    What could it be used for? Or is it something like testing missiles on the hull?

    I think it'd be great to keep the hull in reserve for a quick rebuild of something if ever the need arose. But I understand that hull building (esp Mistral style modular) is the quick part nowadays. And fitting out is the slow part.

    The Ural is a massive hull 870 ft long. Thats bigger than light aircraft carriers.


    "Could be" That means I don't know right now but I'd say it's gone since I'd have heard about it in some way by now.

    That would also be extremely expensive to convert that hull into a functional modern ship, Russia Contrary to popular belief does not have money to send on such projects like that.

    The original contract stated the ship be COMPLETELY scrapped basically not a screw left intact, any mentions of modifying the contract would have been picked up.

    All the evidence suggests the hull was scrapped like planned.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  franco on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:01 am

    List of ships under construction, status of those and financial reports of the Northern Shipyard;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2717246.html
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:11 pm

    List of ships under construction, status and financial reports out of the Zelenodolsky Shipyard;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2718855.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 am


    tomazy

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  tomazy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:40 am



    Another pic of the big crane. I wonder what is beeing built on the left side of the new docks that is bloored on both pictures scratch
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    hoom

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:00 pm

    Looks like an Oscar to me, I think Zvezda has 2 doing upgrades.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    How does that work ? they build the ships on the white plateform under the big yellow thing at thte right of the picture ?? Or it the platefor just for suporting the big yellow structure and it can't move up and down ?

    It's huge if you compare to the Oscar of the left. You can easily put two carrier on it.
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    hoom

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:46 am

    The crane isn't put together yet, supposed to look like this

    Yes huge, capable of building ships up to 350m * 60m * 350,000tons, expected to build oil/gas tankers, rigs etc.
    But pretty obviously also has a potential military aspect Wink
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:17 am

    Impressive, are there any other major projects like the one in Zvezda of similar scale?
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:55 am

    They building subcomponents / segments on the left two crane area, and the right area is for final assembly.

    The maximum with of ship can be calculated from the overall size of the distance between the main crane, and the tower crane.

    However they need a special ship to move out the finished ships to the see.

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    PapaDragon

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    Goliath crane installation in Zvezda:

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:48 am


    Goliath crane installation in Zvezda:



    More pics:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96598/
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:20 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Goliath crane installation in Zvezda:



    More pics:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96598/

    But that is Finnish crane from what i am aware
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:19 am

    Militarov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Goliath crane installation in Zvezda:
    .....


    More pics:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96598/

    But that is Finnish crane from what i am aware

    It's definitely imported, probably from Finland so yes

    Why?
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:03 am

    Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:52 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.

    Before this becomes another aircraft carrier discussion I would like to implore everyone to exercise restraint.

    Yes it does suck that Russia has to import this stuff (even though they may be on the clock ATM).

    But also let's not pretend that Russia had some master plan. 
    True, they might have one now but until less than a decade ago their only ambition was to become more blizzardy version of Saudi Arabia.

    Industrialization came up only recently so it takes time for effects to kick in and it is faster to just buy one from abroad.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:01 am

    Chances are the Finns could make the crane faster then Russia could have so it would make sense to import it if they needed it right away and they could not do it themselves at the time table.

    Better to do import it then have delays.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:51 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Do you really need to ask that question? He will blather on about Russia produces nothing cause it couldn't build a simple crane, and had to import one.

    Before this becomes another aircraft carrier discussion I would like to implore everyone to exercise restraint.

    Yes it does suck that Russia has to import this stuff (even though they may be on the clock ATM).

    But also let's not pretend that Russia had some master plan. 
    True, they might have one now but until less than a decade ago their only ambition was to become more blizzardy version of Saudi Arabia.

    Industrialization came up only recently so it takes time for effects to kick in and it is faster to just buy one from abroad.

    Militarov is trolling. We live in a global economy so it is often cheaper to buy foreign made goods and services.
    So why would any Russian company pay more and wait years for some non-existent domestic production line to get started?
    Even import substitution does not imply 100% self-reliance. Unless Russia wants to compete on the global market making
    such cranes it may never bother starting production of this class.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:01 pm

    I don't agree with those assessments. And anyway, that is what Militarov would say and he isn't wrong either. I was being more exaggerating but lets be real here, Russia should be building it themselves. Finland isn't necessarily a friend of Russia but so far, lately, they have been pretty decent neighbors compared to other assholes. So I guess it is fine.

    Anyway, I don't really care. I am glad the shipyard is going as well as it is. They need this.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:57 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I don't agree with those assessments.  And anyway, that is what Militarov would say and he isn't wrong either.  I was being more exaggerating but lets be real here, Russia should be building it themselves.  Finland isn't necessarily a friend of Russia but so far, lately, they have been pretty decent neighbors compared to other assholes.  So I guess it is fine.

    Anyway, I don't really care.  I am glad the shipyard is going as well as it is.  They need this.

    There isn't lot of countries that would buy such things. Most of them can produce it themselves. So I don't think Finland wishes to lose such a client. France did the mistake with Mistrals and it was really badly seen in France. Hopefully they sold them to egypt but if they didn't it would have been a big issue. Neither Ukraine, neither Usa or UK wanted to buy them. They just push you to do what they want and then no help. Tje same would occure in finland...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:01 pm

    To be fair the main lesson from the Misral debacle is that even paid for contracts can be broken by americas bitches.

    Ask me just 4-5 years ago if France was a bitch to America and i would have said not... France has pride... in itself and its customers.

    The whole purpose of buying the Mistrals was that they would have both been in service by now in a largely already proven design.

    I had to say I laughed out loud at the French reaction when a certain country that had promised to buy French helos if Russia did not get her carriers reneged on that deal too.

    Similar to the feelings I had when terrorists were killing french people in Paris... imagine foreigners coming to your country and blowing things up and killing people... (Note I am from New Zealand BTW)

    Russian companies probably could have come up with a crane that was able to do the job... I don't think they chose a Finn crane because it was from Finland.

    Clearly it must have had better specs or was cheaper, or could be done within the required time frame.


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    T-47

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  T-47 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:07 am

    GarryB wrote:To be fair the main lesson from the Misral debacle is that even paid for contracts can be broken by americas bitches.

    Ask me just 4-5 years ago if France was a bitch to America and i would have said not... France has pride... in itself and its customers.

    The whole purpose of buying the Mistrals was that they would have both been in service by now in a largely already proven design.

    I had to say I laughed out loud at the French reaction when a certain country that had promised to buy French helos if Russia did not get her carriers reneged on that deal too.

    Similar to the feelings I had when terrorists were killing french people in Paris... imagine foreigners coming to your country and blowing things up and killing people... (Note I am from New Zealand BTW)

    Russian companies probably could have come up with a crane that was able to do the job... I don't think they chose a Finn crane because it was from Finland.

    Clearly it must have had better specs or was cheaper, or could be done within the required time frame.

    Time is a big factor, also the limited money. You have to prioritize things. There are more important sectors to spend money for now than building big cranes. I'm pretty sure Russian industry will come up with big cranes as well once the chaos settle up.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:33 am

    The thing is that Russia will have companies that make cranes but we are talking about a huge crane... not something they will make very often... not a normal part of their inventory of products.

    The point is that this shipyard is rather big and will be making some big ships, so they will need big cranes, but they wont be needing 500 of them.

    If we were talking about 100 ton capacity cranes and they needed 1,000 of them, then it would make sense to get a Russian company to make them because there would be plenty of work in it and likely future maintainence and support work needed.

    When you only need one or two really big ones there is no point getting investing in a small Russian company that makes small cranes to build one or two really big ones... it makes more sense to find a company that makes big ones and has experience and is ready to make an existing proven design.

    Obviously we are not talking a weapon.

    If we were talking about a missile and we went to an AAM maker and said we want a 1,000km range AAM we would never consider foreign makers... that is just a given.

    With a crane it is not such an issue.

    In fact having a Russian maker of heavy cranes really only makes sense if there is a viable market for Russian heavy cranes. Without a market spending money to create a Russian heavy crane company and then just make one crane is stupid and wasteful.


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    PapaDragon

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    Civilian or military?

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:06 am

    .
    Civilian or military? confused

    Zvezda shipyard will lay down first four vessels in September 2017


    http://www.en.portnews.ru/news/243940/
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    hoom

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:31 pm

    From recollection the whole basis for the rework is a contract for 7* 200,000ton tankers.

    Apparently they have started on the big drydock now too.

    The Goliath is completed now (& confirmed thats an Oscar looking tiny next to it)



    As with others above as long as you're able to successfully source them overseas there's not much point trying to create a Goliath class crane domestically, there just isn't enough global demand for many manufacturers.
    Even US uses imported ones eg the one at Newport News was built by Krupp http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1558:newport-news-shipbuilding-name-is-back-on-giant-crane&Itemid=257

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