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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:10 am

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea? I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one? I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)? Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Russia already has a proven AIP technology... it is called nuclear propulsion.

    the west uses hydrogen membrane AIP where oxygen and hydrogen are used through a membrane that peals off electrons from the hydrogen as it passes through and when it recombines with oxygen and the stripped electrons are added again you have a current flow of electrons and heat. It is fully reversable so if you can surface safely you can apply electricity from a diesel engine and charge the batteries and also produce hydrogen for the AIP at sea.

    The major problems for such a system is that most ports already have the infrastructure to handle diesel or heavy oil for fuels but are not equipped to store and transfer hydrogen.

    The Chinese system... if it is just a sterling engine is just like a diesel engine using stored oxygen... liquid oxygen is a very dangerous substance to carry on a sub which counts against both systems... you simply can't put out an oxygen fire and any fuels immersed in liquid oxygen almost explode in such an oxygen rich environment...

    The Russian system which has passed all its land based tests and just needs field trials in a real boat uses normal diesel... which is available already in pretty much any port around the world already and will be carried by all existing diesel electric submarines... all the piping is already there... in port and on board the vessels. the difference will be adding an AIP section and ensuring the diesel can be pumped into that section.

    From what I have read the Russian system generates more than 5 times more power than hydrogen membrane systems from the west.


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    max steel
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  max steel on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:51 am

    A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Zivo on Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:56 am

    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    Nope, Mega-Kirovs. pirat

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:29 am

    Zivo wrote:
    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    Nope, Mega-Kirovs. pirat

    Oh please tell me you're not joking... This would be amazing.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:29 pm

    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    400m would be good start for Russian shipbuilding, however i cant find anywhere that in text, is that from some other source?

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:33 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Yeah China has AIP on Type 039A subs sometimes refered to as Type 41A, but its stirling AIP  not fuel cell. Stirling engine solution burns diesel and liquid oxigen, and its combusted on very high pressure (higher than surrounding water) so it still can push the exaust gases outside, this kinda limits maximum depth to somewhat about 200m. Meanwhlie it can directly supply electricity to all systems or charge batteries.

    "Stirling engines are often compared to reciprocating steam engines, in that they employ a piston-cylinder assembly, but they differ fundamentally, in that the working fluid in the engine is sealed and separated from the heat source, in a closed cycle arrangement. Heat is provided to the Stirling engine by the external combustion of a fuel and oxidiser"

    Japan based their AIP subs Sōryū on Swedish Stirling AIP solution built by Kockums Naval Solutions (SAAB) simply by getting licence. Swedes did this like 2 decades ago basically, so all theirs subs were modified including two that were sold to Singapure to feature AIP.

    When its about South Korea they operate Type 214 which for i belive Hyundai Heavy Industries got "licence".



    So as usual Russian officials spout off like drama queens with totally unnecessary tint of crisis and "we can never get it right" defeatism.  
    All of the competition is running Stirling AIP, but you wouldn't know it from these Russian idiot officials.   Probably because they don't
    know the difference even though it is their f*cking job to know it.

    Officials like drama, doesnt matter if its good or bad. Two types of officials "This new Russian pocket knife has no analogue in the world" and "Our industry is not capable of developing anything, we suck and we should buy stuff from Germany". Depends where they are trying to score points.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:26 pm

    Russian state shipbuilder expected to be able to build aircraft carriers as of 2019

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/847215


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:27 pm

    Kronstadt Marine Plant joined the USC

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3195946&usg=ALkJrhgIi7cwM1BpV1J1LWVaDZHtgb3qwQ


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:55 am

    Current Perspectives of "Yantar" plant

    General Director of JSC "Shipyard" Yantar "Eduard Efimov told reporters the most western region of Russia on the day of the present and prospects of development of the Kaliningrad shipyard.

    When communicating with journalists Eduard Efimov touched on a wide range of issues, in particular, he spoke of the so-called frigates admiral series.

    - Lead ship "Admiral Grigorovich" series already delivered to the customer, - he said. - Foster an act signed March 10, 2016, and on March 11 on the ship in a solemn ceremony raised the flag of St. Andrew. Now the ship is preparing to move to the Black Sea Fleet. The second ship "Admiral Essen" is currently at the sites of the Northern Fleet completes the program of state tests. After that, we will remove all comments, and the end of May, we plan to submit it to the Black Sea Fleet. The third frigate "Admiral Makarov" is in the process of mooring trials. They are strictly in accordance with the schedule. We intend to transfer the ship to the Navy in the third quarter of this year. There is another ship, which is included in the acceptance program 2016 - BDK "Ivan Gren". This project has been dubbed the "Russian" Mistral ". He was laid in 2004. To a large extent the cause of the protracted was the desire of the customer to significantly improve the ship's performance. In the course of building repeatedly changed the terms of reference, improved weapons systems and equipment structure. As a result, BDK has a maximum degree of automation, manual control on it is minimized.

    At a certain stage of the construction was suspended due to problems related to the financing of the project. However, in 2010, after the conclusion of the additional agreement with the customer, its development received a fresh impetus.
    Another problem was that not all suppliers qualitatively fulfill their obligations to supply equipment for the BBC. But almost all the difficulties of the company resolved. Currently, a large amphibious ship "Ivan Gren" is in the process of mooring trials. I think that in May it will come to in the sea, and get down to the factory sea trials. Send BDK fleet plan in the third quarter of 2016. Routine program for this year is very intense, but we intend to fulfill it in full.

    The plant is built on a similar project landing ship "Peter Morgunov." Today already formed hull. In the near future it will begin the installation of the basic mechanisms and equipment. Completion date BDK "Peter Morgunov" - 2018.

    We are talking about the second group of three frigates admiral series, whose fate at this point remains uncertain. As is known, the main supplier of power plants for ships was the Ukrainian plant in Nikolaev. Now the Ukrainian side has imposed sanctions on the supply of this equipment in Russia. Here in this connection said Eduard Efimov:

    - We have the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed an agreement for the construction of three more ships of the project 11356, - ​​said General Director of Shipyard "Yantar". - Indeed, there was a serious problem with the completion of these frigates. Due to the sanctions introduced by the Ukrainian side, Nicholas NGO "Zorya-Mashproekt" did not put the engines set. At the level of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation have been given orders to replace imports by domestic power plants. Their production should be mastered at the Rybinsk plant "Saturn". The term of execution of the order - 2018.

    At present, the degree of readiness of the ships is that their further construction without installation of engines we can not continue.


    In this regard, the Ministry of Defense at the beginning of this year, we sent a notice of suspension of the construction of three frigates admiral series. Now one hull formed and launched. The second is preparing for the descent. Third formed halfway. After a series of works, he will also be launched to make the stocks.

    After this information Efimov announced the start of construction on the plant's second oceanographic "Almaz" ship for the Russian Navy. His laying is scheduled for June 2016.


    Not bypassed Eduard and issues related to ship repair warships of the Baltic Fleet.
    - The share of ship repair in the total volume of production Shipyard "Yantar" is less than 10 percent - said the head of the plant. - In the near future to expand it, we are not going to nevertheless carry out orders for servicing of vessels and ships. Currently the company is undergoing renovations small landing hovercraft "Eugene Kocheshkov" Baltic Fleet. At the end of April on the dock repair it will be held, and we will send it to the military service. The second order, which is executed in the interest of the Baltic Fleet - a repair patrol ship "Fearless." This year, we intend to complete the repair and transfer the ship to the customer.

    Many are worried about the renewal of machinery park the company, its financial component.

    - There is a federal target program for the development of the defense industry for the period 2011-2020, which included Shipyard "Yantar", - said the head of the enterprise. - The development of the plant is divided into three stages. The first is to upgrade and pipe-bending machine-building industries. It has already been implemented by 70 per cent. We bought more than a hundred units of machine tools. In June, the plan to introduce the production of pipe bending. And it will be placed in the new building, equipped with the most modern equipment. The second phase of the program concerns the modernization of the main production. The modern equipment will be installed in several factory floor will be put in order quay wall. At the third stage it is planned to create a new body manufacturing shop. Putting it into operation in addition to improving the efficiency of production significantly optimizes intralogistics. At the initial stage of the reconstruction of the plant volume of investments envisaged in the amount of 13 billion rubles. Of these, 60 per cent - the money the federal budget, the remaining 40 percent - own means of the enterprise. On reconstruction of production facilities the company has spent more than 3 billion rubles.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1874127.html


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:13 pm


    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:23 pm



    Russian corvette Gremyashy receive Russian diesel engines instead of German ones.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:28 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

    No no no.

    The news is about the Grigorovich frigates. Not the Steregushy corvettes.

    Yantar (Kaliningrad) makes the frigates, not the corvettes.

    Steregushy corvette program is ongoing. The propulsion problem is resolved (look at medo's post above this one).

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:30 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

    No no no.

    The news is about the Grigorovich frigates. Not the Steregushy corvettes.

    Yantar (Kaliningrad) makes the frigates, not the corvettes.

    Steregushy corvette program is ongoing. The propulsion problem is resolved (look at medo's post above this one).

    In that case, my bad... cry

    As for frigates, those ships go trough several turbines over the course of their service so it would make sense to start modifying last three ships now to receive Russian engines since they will all need replacements at some point?

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:39 pm

    Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:49 pm

    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:21 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes. Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:34 pm

    medo wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

    Agreed.
    However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Dima on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:26 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.
    There is and always was a good solution to fulfill the corvette numbers and and I always mentions it and once more saying.....Pr.11661 Gepard class is the way to go. I personally like that design coz its a very practical one.

    Vietnam's next two Gepard 3.9 is getting ready and I feel not ordering 11661 for the Russian navy might bring us to the same situation as what happened with the pr.11356..... its after so many years that Russia realized that not continuing the 11356 production after the completion of the first three units for Indian Navy was a big mistake. And when they indeed started it, the time was just too late with only half the capacity likely to be fulfilled. I know the financial situations and politics that have likely played in the decision making process...not venturing into it coz then we will have to talk a lot including the utter lack of vision and strategy for promotion (Venezuela, Libya) during the period which could have negated the lack of initial startup capital for restarting/continuing the production.  

    My plan/wishlist for 11661 has been on the version with a hanger incorporated... with the new canistered BuK-M3 AD system, the possibility of even smaller tonnage ships getting (as a carrier) a good medium-long range AD missile looks promising.

    Tartarstan already have those Kaliber tubes and was put to good use against international terrorists in Syria, so the next series of 11661 only need to take it from there.

    Specs that I would like to see for Gepard 3.9 are
    8 x Kaliber/Yakhont/Klub
    12 - 24 x canistered AD missiles replacing 8 x 3M24
    2-4 x podded Zhuk-A based radar/illuminator for AD missiles
    2 x Palma

    Such a modernized/optimized 11661 would be a good multipurpose corvette and will do good to enhance Russian Navy's 'soldiers' on the ocean. I would like to see a proliferation of these powerful units in the Black Sea, Mediterranean (Tartous, Latakia) and Baltic which will free up the Frigates and Destroyers and supplement them in firepower when needed.



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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:27 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

    Agreed.
    However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.

    True, but situation now has changed. They have domestic engines for Gremyashy corvettes, but not yet for Gorshkovs. Gremyashy is now fully domestic ship and not much weaker than Grigorovich frigate and could be built in Far East as well. In the mean time, when Saturn will build new domestic engines for both Gorshkov and Grigorovich frigates, they could concentrate to build more Gremyashy corvettes. Why waisting time and waiting few more years forbuilding ships, when Steregushy and Gremyashy corvettes have their domestic engines and could be build without problems with supplies. Navy simply need new ships.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:40 pm

    Dima wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.
    There is and always was a good solution to fulfill the corvette numbers and and I always mentions it and once more saying.....Pr.11661 Gepard class is the way to go. I personally like that design coz its a very practical one.

    Vietnam's next two Gepard 3.9 is getting ready and I feel not ordering 11661 for the Russian navy might bring us to the same situation as what happened with the pr.11356..... its after so many years that Russia realized that not continuing the 11356 production after the completion of the first three units for Indian Navy was a big mistake. And when they indeed started it, the time was just too late with only half the capacity likely to be fulfilled. I know the financial situations and politics that have likely played in the decision making process...not venturing into it coz then we will have to talk a lot including the utter lack of vision and strategy for promotion (Venezuela, Libya) during the period which could have negated the lack of initial startup capital for restarting/continuing the production.  

    My plan/wishlist for 11661 has been on the version with a hanger incorporated... with the new canistered BuK-M3 AD system, the possibility of even smaller tonnage ships getting (as a carrier) a good medium-long range AD missile looks promising.

    Tartarstan already have those Kaliber tubes and was put to good use against international terrorists in Syria, so the next series of 11661 only need to take it from there.

    Specs that I would like to see for Gepard 3.9 are
    8 x Kaliber/Yakhont/Klub
    12 - 24 x canistered AD missiles replacing 8 x 3M24
    2-4 x podded Zhuk-A based radar/illuminator for AD missiles
    2 x Palma

    Such a modernized/optimized 11661 would be a good multipurpose corvette and will do good to enhance Russian Navy's 'soldiers' on the ocean. I would like to see a proliferation of these powerful units in the Black Sea, Mediterranean (Tartous, Latakia) and Baltic which will free up the Frigates and Destroyers and supplement them in firepower when needed.



    11661 Gepard corvette have the same problem, engines from Ukraine. Vietnam got engines from Ukraine, Russia will not. There is better solution in 22160 patrol ships, which most probably have domestic diesel engines and they could as well be equipped with Redut air defense and if they equip it with sonar and Paket torpedo complex, they got multipurpose corvette, which could be built very fast. Zelenodolsk built 22160 ship in two years.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:44 pm


    Does anyone know what happened with Tiger class corvette concept? It was shown on Naval expo in St. Petersburg last year, it is supposed to be based on Gremashi class.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:01 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

    No no no.

    The news is about the Grigorovich frigates. Not the Steregushy corvettes.

    Yantar (Kaliningrad) makes the frigates, not the corvettes.

    Steregushy corvette program is ongoing. The propulsion problem is resolved (look at medo's post above this one).

    In that case, my bad... cry

    As for frigates, those ships go trough several turbines over the course of their service so it would make sense to start modifying last three ships now to receive Russian engines since they will all need replacements at some point?

    Turbines these days are mostly overhauled rather than replaced completely. But each time overhaul takes more time and is more expencive than previous.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:56 pm

    I feel like i should add this.


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:18 pm


    I don't think that data is accurate.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Wed May 11, 2016 9:46 am

    Interview with President of JSC "United Shipbuilding Corporation" Alexei Rakhmanov

    The newspaper "Vedomosti" in its issue of May 10, 2016 published an uninteresting interview with the president of JSC "United Shipbuilding Corporation" Alexei Rakhmanov. Our blog brings her some shortened version of this interview, in the version posted on the website edition.


    - What are the indicators of USC in 2015?
    - According to preliminary calculations, the revenue will be summed at the level of 304 billion rubles. (+ 8% in 2014), net profit - more than 20 billion rubles. (Increased by about two times). At the same time, our order backlog estimated amount of about 1 trillion rubles., A significant proportion of it provides a long-term program of military shipbuilding. But we certainly see and quite a large volume of orders, which can perform for our oil and gas, fishing and shipping companies. Target for 2016 - about 400 billion rubles. Revenue and 14 billion rubles. Net profit.
    - 1 trillion rubles. - A list for how long?
    - This is the amount of the order, to which we can expect in the medium term - up to 2024-2025 years. It is clear that this figure can not be taken into account emerging new projects, the real figure may be higher. And if we extrapolate our revenues for the years 2014-2015. a 10-year period, it will exceed 3 trillion rubles. In this regard, our key objective - increasing the proportion of the portfolio of orders of civil and military-technical cooperation (MTC, arms exports).
    - What is their share in the proceeds of USC?
    - The share of civilian shipbuilding this year - 10%, and the task in 2025 to bring it to 25%. Share in BTC - 15%, the remaining 75% - is the fulfillment of the state defense order.

    Mission
    - What are the main objectives you set for yourself now, after fifteen years of leadership USC?
    - I see the USC mission is to strengthen the country's defense: high-quality and timely implementation of the state defense order and at the same time do everything to support the production, economic and infrastructure development of the civil shipbuilding. We, as a responsible manufacturer committed to providing the demand of both Russian and foreign customers for high-tech ships and vessels. And as a responsible employer we pay serious attention to the training and retraining of personnel - in order to raise the level of knowledge and skills in the entire shipbuilding industry.

    USC sells 30.2% stake in the Novorossiysk Shipyard
    - Non-competitiveness of the car industry in the USSR was able to integrate into the world market, not least due to the fact that with your participation were created understandable and attractive to investors, the rules of the game. How big is the role of industry officials?
    - When I was engaged in the automotive industry, we felt that in order to be globally competitive in certain sectors, we need to have a volume of not less than 3 million products. This can be done, if you combine a number of assets. This option was not supported because of the difference of shareholders' interests [of automobile enterprises]. So we went for option "B" - "Localization" - and that is implemented today. Maximum development of the state that is interesting: the tax base, new capacities. And a system of state selective aid to those who can reach the level of, at least a little close to the global automotive industry.
    - What do you think you can manage to pull shipbuilding, as once the auto industry?
    - If you want to laugh God, tell him about your plans. It will be possible or not depends not only on me but on my team, on the situation in the country on the world stage. There are a lot of factors, and I would not make plans.
       I am ready to engage in the development of the industry as much as the country's leadership sees fit.
       Everyone has an error, a lot has not yet been done, but we are trying to build an effective structure, not to lie, to fulfill its obligations, to appreciate their employees. As much as it may sound pompous.
       I would like to build a system with resistance to complex industry-climate, which in a few years we are trying to catch up on everything that has been done 20-25 years.
       You open, it happens, and you read the article, "the USC repair submarine 12 years." It seems to be true, but let's ask: how USC was financed last 10 years? And it turns out that a more or less adequate money allocated only last 3-4 years. In this sense, I am grateful to the Government and the Ministry of Defence that appeared rhythmic funding.
       <...>

    The main customer
    - While USC remains primarily a military equipment manufacturer. Are you satisfied in conjunction with the customer difficulty as the Ministry of Defence?
    - I would never complain about your customer, whether it is the Ministry of Defense, commercial company or travel agency in Finland. The customer has the right to demand, is entitled to their opinion. But it must not be forgotten that in shipbuilding products manufacturing cycle, taking into account the design takes up to 6-7 years. During this time, changing laws, managers, economic situation. Often without adjustments do not, for objective reasons, and here we are arguing with the customer. But I am sure that in each case we find a solution, because everyone is trying to do what is best for the country.
     And we, and the Defense Ministry are interested in clear and transparent rules of the game. If you want from me the finished product on time, it is possible when I get the right to discipline their suppliers for missed deadlines. And for those who do not have direct contracts with USC, I can not do it. And if we agree on the procedure for passing ships, it is possible to speak about the performance or non-compliance with its obligations USC only if passed by the order and the amount of work remain unchanged until the end of the contract.
    - How well do you do for a military order?
    - Margin of military orders on any of the projects does not exceed 6%.
    - The adopted amendments to the Federal Law № 275 of the state defense order, tighten the procedure of payments between the customer and can not reduce the margin even further?
    - We are absolutely clear why they are taken. Obviously, bringing order to the budget funds needed. Nevertheless, in spite of the stated objectives, the law does not create incentives to reduce costs. Moreover, we almost lose the Treasury function. Except, perhaps, the administration of payments.
    Elementary loans to cover cash shortages become a problem, and the interest on the loan fall in net profit, which is already enough to swear.
    Particularly acute in the realities of the Federal Law № 275-date is a question the use of the Ministry of Defense standard for penalties. In the current realities of their size becomes comparable with revenues of enterprises. And then what? Bankruptcy? I do not think that this state approach.
    USC in 2021 to invest 31 billion rubles in modernization "Severnaya Verf"
    There is a saying: hard to swim against the tide, especially with their hands tied. This is exactly the situation. To achieve high economic efficiency in terms of more regulation, to put it mildly, difficult. We talk about our problems, and I'm glad that we hear in the Ministry of Defense. Hope, discussed the changes in the federal law will help solve most of our problems.

    Military secrets
    - The annual report of USC said that Russia in the period 2009-2014. He ranked second in the number set by the world market submarines, corvettes and frigates. Whether these positions?
    - As long as we produce the quietest diesel-electric submarine in the world ( "Warszawianka" Project 636), we will be buyers. Until we produce the armed corvettes and frigates, we are interested in foreign customers.
    - What else is our best ships of foreign analogues, but what they lose?
    - We still produce submarines and surface ships cheaper than foreign ones. In this regard, the Russian production is of great interest. We learned how to build war machines for the efficient allocation of arms, we have very good relations with the suppliers of the corresponding systems.
    At the same time we are sometimes criticized, that we build the ships, which serve well, but not to live, while the majority of foreign competitors in building ships, in which people live with all the comfort. I do not take this remark as a reproach, but as praise. Our ships do not always look glamorous, but it is good to perform combat missions.
    With regard to export activities, we are pleased that the adopted amendments to the legislation to allow management companies integrated structures qualify for the right of foreign trade activities in the field of military products. We hope that from 1 July 2016 USC will have the right to conduct independent foreign economic activity. In this case, we are together with "Rosoboronexport" will be able to more effectively prove that the Russian weapons is the best in the world.
    - Why do you do if there is a "Rosoboronexport"?
    - The fact that colleagues concentrate on the direction of the "main attack" - the supply of finished products, and in any case it will be the responsibility of "Rosoboronexport". But there is a smaller deal, which is effective for us, but not so interesting for him: the same spare parts, servicing, modernization. We know this topic a little deeper and be able to master it, it seems to us, faster and more efficiently.
    - In 2014, Russia became the world leader in the export of warships in displacement due to supply the Indian Navy aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" (former "Admiral Gorshkov"). Anticipated more such orders?
    - I do not want to reveal military secrets. I can only say that we have quite a large backlog of orders. Backlog at the MTC Corporation and a half decades.
    - But the first place in 2015, Russia lost?
    - Such calculations - none of our business. I think more correct to ask the Federal Service for military-technical cooperation.
    - There is a program of construction of medium and large amphibious ships due to the large depreciation of the existing ones?
    - Of course. On the "Yantar" plant being built such ships, and one of them is scheduled for delivery in the near future.
    - What is the need for them is the Ministry of Defence?
    - I think you'd better answer to the Defense Ministry, if not deem this information to a military secret.
    - Are there any plans in the foreseeable future if it overhaul of the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov", and a long stretch without him?
    - Again, I will give an answer similar to the previous one.
    - What is the fate of the second triple frigates of Project 11356, the construction of which the Kaliningrad factory "Amber" was suspended due to non-delivery of Ukrainian gas turbine power plants?
    - We continue to work within the framework of the state defense order. But it is also considered fundamental possibility of the completion of the second triple frigates of Project 11356 for the benefit of the Indian Navy. The engines for these vehicles are fully paid to the Ukrainian side, manufactured, and at the moment they are in their factory. In the case of the adoption of the Indian side the decision to purchase these frigates we know how to solve the problem.
    - Is there a program of import substitution in engine?
    - The program has also actively implemented. As I said, there are several players who, with the assistance Minpromtorga design and preparing to start production of the major ship systems: diesel generator sets, gas turbine units, main propulsion systems. Test samples and prototypes have already made, we hope to begin mass production until 2018. In this case, the USC will be their main customer.
    - Who will produce the engines?
    - Work on the turbine engines of the Russian manufacture is conducted in Rybinsk on "Saturn", we expect to receive their engines from 2018 for gas turbine gearboxes will be made of the St. Petersburg factory "Star". Also work on import substitution, but the ship's diesel engines is to Kolomna near Moscow plant. We are working on localization and production of diesel engines imported brands.

    In civilian sector
    - Why Russian shipbuilders account for such a tiny proportion of Russian orders for civilian equipment -. 4% in 2009-2014, according to the USC report for 2015?
    - Domestic shipbuilders are building as much as they bought domestic shipowners. The reasons are not the biggest demand - cost and cautious attitude towards the quality of products. Devaluation of the ruble made that part of the works and services that provide the Russian shipyards, quite competitive on the world market. However, the cost of components in the global division of labor remained the same, and the same for shipyards in Germany, Korea or Russia. For example, only 5% of the price of the trawler up design work and only 15% - the cost of the actual construction. At the same time, the lion's share - the price of imports (50%) and national (20%) of materials and equipment. These figures show that the price of 2/3 is laid on the table in the designer, who chooses the equipment. And he chooses it in accordance with the terms of reference of the customer.
    We strive to rectify the situation by going from design organizations. But keep in mind that long breaks in their work, have occurred in the past decades have led to the destruction of continuity. This affects including in the implementation of design solutions speed.
    - How will you increase the share of civil orders in the portfolio? And it is important, if the state defense order for decades to ensure you download the shipyards?
    - If you look at the USC only as a military shipbuilding company, then you can forget about the future. This is including the fact that the financing of the state defense order rush subsides by 2020 Evolve, we can only consortium producing and military and civilian equipment. All major innovation, all the technological breakthroughs, all modern shipbuilding enterprises management practices come to us through the citizen, through communication with suppliers, designers, and so on. D. The import substitution program also applies mostly to the citizen and it enables us to find solutions that can be easily adapted for naval shipbuilding. Any narrowing of the horizon of our communication, including with competitors, leads to stagnation in the industry.
    USC plans to put a fleet of about 20 warships and vessels in 2016
    Now, about the strategy of increasing the share of civil orders. We work to reduce costs in order to offer customers more attractive prices. Now combine the shipyard in clusters in the North-West region are implementing the concept of a distributed shipyard: spend modernization of enterprises, not as separate production units, as well as the platforms group, each of which has its own specialty. On some we develop metal Cutting, production buildings and sections, others forming this production into larger units and then - in the finished products. Thus, we reduce investment costs, concentrate efforts at the points of competence and collecting finished Court where efficient from the standpoint of tax and customs legislation.
    In December 2015 the USC has signed an agreement with the free economic zone "Lotus" in the Astrakhan region. It allows the production of the necessary buildings and sections us not to pay customs duties and VAT.
     The corporation established control for each type of commercial shipbuilding. Sometimes they offer a rather unusual form of cooperation. For example, one oil and gas company, we are working on the scheme, the cost of the open (when the customer sees what margin we earn, see the whole structure of our costs, can be compared with world prices). In this way we show that is absolutely open, working at a fixed margin, which we agree from the outset.
    - And what is the margin?
    - In civil orders, we are working for a net margin of about 10-15%. This, on the one hand, not particularly large, on the other - allow development finance program. We see the construction of passenger ships one of the promising areas of activity, along with the creation of fishing and icebreaking fleet. In this position there is reason: the fact that the deterioration of the domestic courts in the present moment more than 70%, and the average age of the equipment for a long time exceeded the specified operating time. It is typical for the river and for the fishing fleet, as well as for river cruise ships.
    Thus, updating the civil fleet vessels bound. And USC has the manufacturing resources in order to increase the pace of manufacturing: the necessary power is on SMZ, the Amur shipyard in the group KNRG (a group of "Caspian Energy" Astrakhan - "Vedomosti."), At the Khabarovsk plant, Nizhny Novgorod plant "Red Sormovo ". And, of course, a lot of potential in the USC shipbuilding cluster in the North West, the real rate of growth in the region Shipbuilding - 10-15% per year.
    This topic may add that we expect to create a captive leasing company, which will be one of the tools for financing transactions ( "Goznak-leasing"). We plan that one of the leasing companies under the jurisdiction of Industry and Trade will be transferred in the next few months USC. Its capital is now about 10 billion rubles., And we will gradually increase the volume of orders. The law on the budget for 2016 is expected contribution to the charter capital of the USC in the amount of 4 billion rubles. These funds will be spent on the development of the leasing of passenger ships. The problem - for 10 years to build a leasing company with a portfolio of orders at the level of 300 billion rubles. We will start to build equipment that neither in Russia, nor in the Soviet Union was built about 50 years.
    - The leasing company is the sales tool or another and should earn?
    - Of course, the main thing for us is to create an additional market our products. But there is no point in creating an unprofitable business.
    - USC's not all civil projects can be implemented?
    - We are not ready to build ships with a displacement of over 100 000 tons - there on the trigger power limit for lifting mechanisms. But the implementation of the program of technical re-equipment will be able to produce a displacement of up to 250 000 tons. Another question is whether it will demand? In answer it, in my opinion, can only state by running long-term planning mechanism. And I also appeal to pay attention to such an effective tool as input-output balance, for which in Soviet times was responsible Gosplan, and now Rosstat and the Ministry of Economic Development.
    - Which segments of civil shipbuilding the most promising for USC?
    - At the moment, we have built about 45 units of sea and river equipment, including transport, research, rescue and auxiliary vessels. 17 icebreakers and ice ships of different classes, including a series of 60-megawatt nuclear icebreakers Project USC 22220. obviously the largest producer of ice-breakers in the world.
    We also have the relevant competencies for the construction of high-tech specialized vessels for offshore operations. This is the segment where we are valued, and where Russia needs to stake out their place and continue to actively compete in the global market.
    We know how and we are able to build drilling platforms and all kinds of marine equipment for oil and gas offshore. Plus there is a certain experience in the construction of fishing vessels, vessels of mixed profile "river - sea".
    <...>

    Grown to dividends
    - What is the investment program at USC 2015-2017 gg. and what will the investment?
    - Total in 2015 the USC Company implemented more than 80 investment projects of capital construction, reconstruction and technical re-equipment of production facilities, including 60 - in the framework of the federal program. The total amount spent on investment projects amounted to more than 11.8 billion rubles., Of which more than 6.6 billion rubles. - The federal budget.
    In 2016, the amount of which is formed of the budget funds, credit money, as well as equity, it was to be about 37 billion rubles. However, the situation is changing in connection with the optimization of the budget.
    We believe that the investment will create a modern shipbuilding industry for the construction of civil and military vessels, marine equipment (including ice-resistant), and warships; to carry out the replacement of worn out equipment in the modern; develop and build new engineering services and networks; repair and build objects of capital construction. The main issue now with optimized performance of our investment program.
    - What percentage of in 2015 were loaded USC power and how this figure may be in 2016?
    - The average rate will be uninformative. It is better to talk about specifics. So, in the factories of the Northwest Cluster, including our shipyard in Helsinki, current loading approaches 100%. But the Far Eastern companies, by contrast, underutilized. In 2016, we expect to normalize the situation on them by redirecting incoming orders and greater inclusion in cooperation.
    - Is it important to USC because of its defense tasks to be profitable?
    - Of course! Like any business structure. During 2014 the USC for the first time in the history of dividends paid - about 500 million rubles. (USC Board of Directors has not yet considered the question of the payment of dividends for 2015 and also appointed the date of the Annual Meeting of Shareholders -. "Vedomosti"). We plan to continue to do that, to be efficient and profitable, if only because that the profit will be one of the main sources of funding for our development.

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