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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

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    George1
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:57 am

    Russian shipbuilding still in trouble

    A couple of recent announcements indicate that Russian shipbuilders are continuing to struggle with construction of new types of ships. First came the announcement, right at the end of 2015, that the commissioning of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate was being delayed for another year, until the end of 2016. At the same time, the navy announced that the Admiral Grigorovich frigate will be commissioned in the first quarter of 2016. It had previously been expected to be commissioned in May 2015, before being repeatedly pushed back. In addition, commissioning of the lead ship of the Alexandrit class (Project 12700) of minewsweepers has been pushed back yet again, to May 2016. It was originally planned to be in the fleet back in 2013. And sea trials of the Ivan Gren amphibious ship were also delayed until the first quarter of 2016. As a result, in 2015 the Russian Navy received no new blue water surface ships.

    On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines).

    Submarine construction may seem better on the surface, with the commissioning of two Improved Kilo class ((Project 636) diesel submarines and the return to active service in 2015 of the Akula class submarine Gepard and the Sierra class submarine Pskov after length overhauls. While there is no doubt that Russian submarine construction is in much better shape than the construction of ocean-going surface ships, there are problems here as well. First of all, despite being commissioned back in 2013, the Severodvinsk SSN remains in sea trials for the third year.

    But more importantly, development of a new class of diesel-electric submarines appears to be in trouble. Problems with propulsion systems have long delayed commissioning of the lead vessel of the Lada class, resulting in the decision taken several years ago to build six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The Russian Navy appeared to be moving on in announcing the successor Kalina class, which was to have air-independent propulsion systems (AIP). Russian experts argued that AIP would be ready by 2017-18, and the new submarines could be built relatively quickly after that. However, the Russian Navy recently announced, with quite a bit of fanfare, that it had ordered another six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Pacific Fleet. These are very good submarines, which undoubtedly be equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles that will give them a potent anti-ship and land-attack capability. But the implication of this announcement is that the Russian Navy does not expect to receive any of the new Kalina class submarines any time soon, and is therefore ordering the tried and true submarines to fill the gap.

    All in all, it seems that Russian shipbuilding is continuing to “tread water,” successfully building ships that it has already built in the past but having serious problems with delays in the new projects that were expected to form the core of the Russian Navy in the 2020s.

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/russian-shipbuilding-still-in-trouble/


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:26 am

    It is clear that propulsion seems to be the major issue, something most are aware of considering the Ukrainian situation with regard to marine gas turbines, and which is being addressed if the announcements are anything to go by.

    Hopefully the next year or two will show results in that area, and hopefully it will be a lesson well learned.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:24 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian shipbuilding still in trouble

    A couple of recent announcements indicate that Russian shipbuilders are continuing to struggle with construction of new types of ships. First came the announcement, right at the end of 2015, that the commissioning of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate was being delayed for another year, until the end of 2016. At the same time, the navy announced that the Admiral Grigorovich frigate will be commissioned in the first quarter of 2016. It had previously been expected to be commissioned in May 2015, before being repeatedly pushed back. In addition, commissioning of the lead ship of the Alexandrit class (Project 12700) of minewsweepers has been pushed back yet again, to May 2016. It was originally planned to be in the fleet back in 2013. And sea trials of the Ivan Gren amphibious ship were also delayed until the first quarter of 2016. As a result, in 2015 the Russian Navy received no new blue water surface ships.

    On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines).

    Submarine construction may seem better on the surface, with the commissioning of two Improved Kilo class ((Project 636) diesel submarines and the return to active service in 2015 of the Akula class submarine Gepard and the Sierra class submarine Pskov after length overhauls. While there is no doubt that Russian submarine construction is in much better shape than the construction of ocean-going surface ships, there are problems here as well. First of all, despite being commissioned back in 2013, the Severodvinsk SSN remains in sea trials for the third year.

    But more importantly, development of a new class of diesel-electric submarines appears to be in trouble. Problems with propulsion systems have long delayed commissioning of the lead vessel of the Lada class, resulting in the decision taken several years ago to build six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The Russian Navy appeared to be moving on in announcing the successor Kalina class, which was to have air-independent propulsion systems (AIP). Russian experts argued that AIP would be ready by 2017-18, and the new submarines could be built relatively quickly after that. However, the Russian Navy recently announced, with quite a bit of fanfare, that it had ordered another six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Pacific Fleet. These are very good submarines, which undoubtedly be equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles that will give them a potent anti-ship and land-attack capability. But the implication of this announcement is that the Russian Navy does not expect to receive any of the new Kalina class submarines any time soon, and is therefore ordering the tried and true submarines to fill the gap.

    All in all, it seems that Russian shipbuilding is continuing to “tread water,” successfully building ships that it has already built in the past but having serious problems with delays in the new projects that were expected to form the core of the Russian Navy in the 2020s.

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/russian-shipbuilding-still-in-trouble/

    ...So were back to citing Dmitry Gorenburg now lol? lol1
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:36 pm


    lol1

    First we have this:

    ....On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. ...

    And then in the very same paragraph we have this:

    ...The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines)....

    So Russian engines are "less reliable" than Ukrainian engines that just happen to have tendency to spontaneously combust?  Suspect

    My advice: stick with the shitty no good less reliable Russian engines and leave amazing super awesome Ukrainian engines to next set of morons willing to pay money for something that will turn their entire fleet of ships into real life metaphor of Ukrainian nation.

    As for Severodvinsk, it may be on trials but it is only ship of it's class and is needed to get data for Yasen-M vessels that are being built now. And I am sure that, even while on "trials", it is more than capable of dumping it's entire load of Kalibrs on Saudi oil fields at the moments notice... You can kill that entire country that way without actually killing a single person.  Twisted Evil
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:21 am

    you can talk about problems with Ukrainian made components holding up production, but at the end of the day when current model Corvettes can attack land targets 1,500km away and hit them with such precision that conventional warheads can be used rather than small nukes, I think that speaks for itself... the Kirov class battle cruisers have never had that capability, though with upgrades that can be added.

    Those same corvettes can carry Onyx supersonic anti ship missiles and will soon be able to carry Zircon hypersonic anti ship missiles in their UKSK launchers... 8 tube launchers making them able to carry the same main armament of a Sovremmeny Destroyer or a Udaloy class anti sub destroyer.

    The Frigates... when they come on line have the firepower of a Sov and a Udaloy... they can carry 8 Onyx and 8 equivalents of the anti sub SS-N-14 silex missiles in the Klub family in vertical launch tubes... still just a frigate.

    The reality is that the numbers of vessels really doesn't show the reality of the situation... it would be like looking at the thousands of piston engined propeller driven fighters in 1945 and comparing that with the number of jet powered aircraft in 1955... rather less jets, but those older planes wouldn't stand a chance against the jets.


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  RedJasmin on Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:41 am

    My view is that there are various issues all piling up which have conspired to squash shipbuilding for the last two decades.

    1. Aging talent. Similar to in the aerospace and other high skill engineering sectors in Russia, the marine engineering sector has a serious issue with an ageing workforce, and a shortage of young high quality talent due the collapse in training regimes in the 90s, and the declining perceived status of engineering and other production sectors over better paying "new economy" jobs.

    2. Lost era. Disruption to the industry caused by the Soviet collapse some design areas, particularly marine electronics and propulsion essentially had a "lost generation", missing out on developments like the azimuth pod thruster and the like.

    3. Mission. I often think part of the naval establishment feel they are in the Soviet Union and fighting the Cold War, and another part are trying to pull all the various assets together and seeing if they can form a cohesive modern vision out of it that answers specifically Russian needs. Until there is some consensus in the establishment about what the role of the navy should be, it's going to be hard for shipbuilders to plan ahead with some idea of what sort of orders they will be getting.





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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:07 am

    The defense industry employs over 600,000 people. And no, not all of them are old.  You are aware that plants like sukhoi has their own acadomy as well?

    Yeah, no.  Good job on copying whatever is said from western msm and possibly wikipedia.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:18 pm

    sepheronx wrote:The defense industry employs over 600,000 people. And no, not all of them are old.  You are aware that plants like sukhoi has their own acadomy as well?

    Yeah, no.  Good job on copying whatever is said from western msm and possibly wikipedia.

    They lack specialists not workforce. It's easy to form a 20 years old guy to do a specials task but harder to form an ingeneer that will lead a team about the new generation of tanks, ships, jet ...
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:20 pm

    And yet there doesnt seem to be that much evidence to support that theory, seeing as how Russia is not only coming up with new systems, but state of the art.

    Armata tank, T-50, Gorshkov, Borei, etc.  All new designs.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:And yet there doesnt seem to be that much evidence to support that theory, seeing as how Russia is not only coming up with new systems, but state of the art.

    Armata tank, T-50, Gorshkov, Borei, etc.  All new designs.

    25 years without designing anything new is an evidence. A lot of them went in Israel, you can analyse Israel arms: all derivated of russian programs (trophy, surface to air missiles...). It's totaly normal that they produce today new thing, Russia has the good universities to support this. You can't deny that.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:52 pm

    But that comoletely goes agaibst the statement earlier.  You cant design something new if you dont work at it.  You could say US lacks skilled workers cause of similar statement - lack of real new equipment.  But that isnt the case.

    During the 90's, Russia was still working on projects but there was no real financial gain behind it and thus they never saw the light of day in real use.  Su-47 Berkut as an example, or T-95 tank.  Then there was other projects like Ivan Gren in the earlier 2000's and as well as Su-37, MiG - light 5th gen aircraft designed but never made, etc etc.  Israel gets majority of their tech from US.  Then they come up with some other additional tech.  But outside of that, they are not something super new an advanced, but quite practical and good for Israeli needs.  Merkava, Iron Dome, Green Pine, etc.

    Russia lost a lot of engineers, that is true, but majority of the population are considered skilled workers due to public education that reaches to university level.  And after soviet Union, how many of these guys were left without a job?

    After money came back, so did new designs.  And they were relatively quick at that too, which leads me to believe they always had the tallent just not the funds.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:09 pm

    sepheronx wrote:After money came back, so did new designs.  And they were relatively quick at that too, which leads me to believe they always had the tallent just not the funds.

    Yes that's what I was saying. I agree with you. I just wanted to point that the lack of money pushed some good engineers to found new job, but not in defence industry. Now with money coming back they come back too.

    Those projects are good but they didn't sell them, that's the problem. Other countries like USA and Israel haven't designed much more than russia but they sold their stuff, upgrade packages ...

    I think 2015 is a start of a new era for the russian industry. If they manage to sell some better export version and not monkey version, it's will be better.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:27 pm

    Kronstadt Marine Plant joined the USC

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3195946&usg=ALkJrhgIi7cwM1BpV1J1LWVaDZHtgb3qwQ


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:55 am

    Current Perspectives of "Yantar" plant

    General Director of JSC "Shipyard" Yantar "Eduard Efimov told reporters the most western region of Russia on the day of the present and prospects of development of the Kaliningrad shipyard.

    When communicating with journalists Eduard Efimov touched on a wide range of issues, in particular, he spoke of the so-called frigates admiral series.

    - Lead ship "Admiral Grigorovich" series already delivered to the customer, - he said. - Foster an act signed March 10, 2016, and on March 11 on the ship in a solemn ceremony raised the flag of St. Andrew. Now the ship is preparing to move to the Black Sea Fleet. The second ship "Admiral Essen" is currently at the sites of the Northern Fleet completes the program of state tests. After that, we will remove all comments, and the end of May, we plan to submit it to the Black Sea Fleet. The third frigate "Admiral Makarov" is in the process of mooring trials. They are strictly in accordance with the schedule. We intend to transfer the ship to the Navy in the third quarter of this year. There is another ship, which is included in the acceptance program 2016 - BDK "Ivan Gren". This project has been dubbed the "Russian" Mistral ". He was laid in 2004. To a large extent the cause of the protracted was the desire of the customer to significantly improve the ship's performance. In the course of building repeatedly changed the terms of reference, improved weapons systems and equipment structure. As a result, BDK has a maximum degree of automation, manual control on it is minimized.

    At a certain stage of the construction was suspended due to problems related to the financing of the project. However, in 2010, after the conclusion of the additional agreement with the customer, its development received a fresh impetus.
    Another problem was that not all suppliers qualitatively fulfill their obligations to supply equipment for the BBC. But almost all the difficulties of the company resolved. Currently, a large amphibious ship "Ivan Gren" is in the process of mooring trials. I think that in May it will come to in the sea, and get down to the factory sea trials. Send BDK fleet plan in the third quarter of 2016. Routine program for this year is very intense, but we intend to fulfill it in full.

    The plant is built on a similar project landing ship "Peter Morgunov." Today already formed hull. In the near future it will begin the installation of the basic mechanisms and equipment. Completion date BDK "Peter Morgunov" - 2018.

    We are talking about the second group of three frigates admiral series, whose fate at this point remains uncertain. As is known, the main supplier of power plants for ships was the Ukrainian plant in Nikolaev. Now the Ukrainian side has imposed sanctions on the supply of this equipment in Russia. Here in this connection said Eduard Efimov:

    - We have the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed an agreement for the construction of three more ships of the project 11356, - ​​said General Director of Shipyard "Yantar". - Indeed, there was a serious problem with the completion of these frigates. Due to the sanctions introduced by the Ukrainian side, Nicholas NGO "Zorya-Mashproekt" did not put the engines set. At the level of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation have been given orders to replace imports by domestic power plants. Their production should be mastered at the Rybinsk plant "Saturn". The term of execution of the order - 2018.

    At present, the degree of readiness of the ships is that their further construction without installation of engines we can not continue.


    In this regard, the Ministry of Defense at the beginning of this year, we sent a notice of suspension of the construction of three frigates admiral series. Now one hull formed and launched. The second is preparing for the descent. Third formed halfway. After a series of works, he will also be launched to make the stocks.

    After this information Efimov announced the start of construction on the plant's second oceanographic "Almaz" ship for the Russian Navy. His laying is scheduled for June 2016.


    Not bypassed Eduard and issues related to ship repair warships of the Baltic Fleet.
    - The share of ship repair in the total volume of production Shipyard "Yantar" is less than 10 percent - said the head of the plant. - In the near future to expand it, we are not going to nevertheless carry out orders for servicing of vessels and ships. Currently the company is undergoing renovations small landing hovercraft "Eugene Kocheshkov" Baltic Fleet. At the end of April on the dock repair it will be held, and we will send it to the military service. The second order, which is executed in the interest of the Baltic Fleet - a repair patrol ship "Fearless." This year, we intend to complete the repair and transfer the ship to the customer.

    Many are worried about the renewal of machinery park the company, its financial component.

    - There is a federal target program for the development of the defense industry for the period 2011-2020, which included Shipyard "Yantar", - said the head of the enterprise. - The development of the plant is divided into three stages. The first is to upgrade and pipe-bending machine-building industries. It has already been implemented by 70 per cent. We bought more than a hundred units of machine tools. In June, the plan to introduce the production of pipe bending. And it will be placed in the new building, equipped with the most modern equipment. The second phase of the program concerns the modernization of the main production. The modern equipment will be installed in several factory floor will be put in order quay wall. At the third stage it is planned to create a new body manufacturing shop. Putting it into operation in addition to improving the efficiency of production significantly optimizes intralogistics. At the initial stage of the reconstruction of the plant volume of investments envisaged in the amount of 13 billion rubles. Of these, 60 per cent - the money the federal budget, the remaining 40 percent - own means of the enterprise. On reconstruction of production facilities the company has spent more than 3 billion rubles.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1874127.html


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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:13 pm


    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:23 pm



    Russian corvette Gremyashy receive Russian diesel engines instead of German ones.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:28 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

    No no no.

    The news is about the Grigorovich frigates. Not the Steregushy corvettes.

    Yantar (Kaliningrad) makes the frigates, not the corvettes.

    Steregushy corvette program is ongoing. The propulsion problem is resolved (look at medo's post above this one).
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:30 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.

    No no no.

    The news is about the Grigorovich frigates. Not the Steregushy corvettes.

    Yantar (Kaliningrad) makes the frigates, not the corvettes.

    Steregushy corvette program is ongoing. The propulsion problem is resolved (look at medo's post above this one).

    In that case, my bad... cry

    As for frigates, those ships go trough several turbines over the course of their service so it would make sense to start modifying last three ships now to receive Russian engines since they will all need replacements at some point?
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:39 pm

    Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:49 pm

    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:21 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes. Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:34 pm

    medo wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

    Agreed.
    However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.
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    Dima
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  Dima on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:26 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.
    There is and always was a good solution to fulfill the corvette numbers and and I always mentions it and once more saying.....Pr.11661 Gepard class is the way to go. I personally like that design coz its a very practical one.

    Vietnam's next two Gepard 3.9 is getting ready and I feel not ordering 11661 for the Russian navy might bring us to the same situation as what happened with the pr.11356..... its after so many years that Russia realized that not continuing the 11356 production after the completion of the first three units for Indian Navy was a big mistake. And when they indeed started it, the time was just too late with only half the capacity likely to be fulfilled. I know the financial situations and politics that have likely played in the decision making process...not venturing into it coz then we will have to talk a lot including the utter lack of vision and strategy for promotion (Venezuela, Libya) during the period which could have negated the lack of initial startup capital for restarting/continuing the production.  

    My plan/wishlist for 11661 has been on the version with a hanger incorporated... with the new canistered BuK-M3 AD system, the possibility of even smaller tonnage ships getting (as a carrier) a good medium-long range AD missile looks promising.

    Tartarstan already have those Kaliber tubes and was put to good use against international terrorists in Syria, so the next series of 11661 only need to take it from there.

    Specs that I would like to see for Gepard 3.9 are
    8 x Kaliber/Yakhont/Klub
    12 - 24 x canistered AD missiles replacing 8 x 3M24
    2-4 x podded Zhuk-A based radar/illuminator for AD missiles
    2 x Palma

    Such a modernized/optimized 11661 would be a good multipurpose corvette and will do good to enhance Russian Navy's 'soldiers' on the ocean. I would like to see a proliferation of these powerful units in the Black Sea, Mediterranean (Tartous, Latakia) and Baltic which will free up the Frigates and Destroyers and supplement them in firepower when needed.


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    medo
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:27 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles. Twisted Evil

    There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
    On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
    As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

    20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

    Agreed.
    However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.

    True, but situation now has changed. They have domestic engines for Gremyashy corvettes, but not yet for Gorshkovs. Gremyashy is now fully domestic ship and not much weaker than Grigorovich frigate and could be built in Far East as well. In the mean time, when Saturn will build new domestic engines for both Gorshkov and Grigorovich frigates, they could concentrate to build more Gremyashy corvettes. Why waisting time and waiting few more years forbuilding ships, when Steregushy and Gremyashy corvettes have their domestic engines and could be build without problems with supplies. Navy simply need new ships.
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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:40 pm

    Dima wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Well in light of this news I think we can all agree that Russian corvette program is complete dead end.

    While they wait for engines smartest thing to do would be to design entirely new model and finally put the whole Steregushi corvette fiasco to bed.
    There is and always was a good solution to fulfill the corvette numbers and and I always mentions it and once more saying.....Pr.11661 Gepard class is the way to go. I personally like that design coz its a very practical one.

    Vietnam's next two Gepard 3.9 is getting ready and I feel not ordering 11661 for the Russian navy might bring us to the same situation as what happened with the pr.11356..... its after so many years that Russia realized that not continuing the 11356 production after the completion of the first three units for Indian Navy was a big mistake. And when they indeed started it, the time was just too late with only half the capacity likely to be fulfilled. I know the financial situations and politics that have likely played in the decision making process...not venturing into it coz then we will have to talk a lot including the utter lack of vision and strategy for promotion (Venezuela, Libya) during the period which could have negated the lack of initial startup capital for restarting/continuing the production.  

    My plan/wishlist for 11661 has been on the version with a hanger incorporated... with the new canistered BuK-M3 AD system, the possibility of even smaller tonnage ships getting (as a carrier) a good medium-long range AD missile looks promising.

    Tartarstan already have those Kaliber tubes and was put to good use against international terrorists in Syria, so the next series of 11661 only need to take it from there.

    Specs that I would like to see for Gepard 3.9 are
    8 x Kaliber/Yakhont/Klub
    12 - 24 x canistered AD missiles replacing 8 x 3M24
    2-4 x podded Zhuk-A based radar/illuminator for AD missiles
    2 x Palma

    Such a modernized/optimized 11661 would be a good multipurpose corvette and will do good to enhance Russian Navy's 'soldiers' on the ocean. I would like to see a proliferation of these powerful units in the Black Sea, Mediterranean (Tartous, Latakia) and Baltic which will free up the Frigates and Destroyers and supplement them in firepower when needed.



    11661 Gepard corvette have the same problem, engines from Ukraine. Vietnam got engines from Ukraine, Russia will not. There is better solution in 22160 patrol ships, which most probably have domestic diesel engines and they could as well be equipped with Redut air defense and if they equip it with sonar and Paket torpedo complex, they got multipurpose corvette, which could be built very fast. Zelenodolsk built 22160 ship in two years.

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