ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Militarov wrote:See, that is why USSR/Russia never had decent fridge or TV of their own, always importing basic civilian products. You need to sell commercial products first to earn money and build ship for military purposes, thats called economy. Also only fraction of shipyards remain operational compared to what existed in USSR time, i guess those are kept abandoned and rotting awaiting for future orders? No.. they are abandoned and decaying coz there were no orders coz USSR collapsed, and they could have survived easily if they were getting civilian orders with no issue whatsoever, some shipyards in US/Europe that exist for over 100 years have never built military ship in their history except during WW2,. Every major size shpyard is building both civiliand and military ships, actually military ships are just fraction of world shipping production. Samsung in South Korea is building 70 hulls per year, i dont believe they ever built more than 10 ships per year with military purposes.
What kind of civilian orders are you talking about?
The dissolution of the Soviet Union was also a dissolution of the Soviet economy.
You can't expect enough domestic civilian orders in such a situation, especially when buying foreign products is encouraged.
And getting enough foreign orders is hard unless you are already very competitive.
Exacly, there were none, you are missing the point. Even ships that WERE oredered by Russian civilian sector during 90s and early 2000s were ordered abroad not from Russian shipyards, and what you just said is what i am talking about here, why USSR shipbuilding failed, they were never trying to get competitive on civilian market they were just making military ships and occasionally some oilers, tugs and similar. Orders from state were significant so they were like "noone cares if we build ships same way last 40 years, state shall order anyways coz they got no choice", and that is why they died out after USSR collapsed, if they tried to spend some money on shipbuilding research beside strictly military applications they might have survived 90s. I am talking here about foreign orders in Russian shipyards, there are barely any even today, and if shipyards were doing something on becoming competitive they wouldnt be in situation they were and sadly some still are.
I know coz it was same in Yugoslavia post 1991. our companies died out coz of lack of research and when import bans ceased to exist they simply died out. Even companies that had good high quality products died out coz noone wanted to buy domestic stuff, they were rather buying Chinese, Turkish and Italian stuff. I lived though crash of industry here, and shipyards too, my father worked as engineer in one huge company that was producing tooling machines, today most of it was converted into bisquit/sweets production...