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    Tornado MLRS family: News

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    Mike E

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I have seen it holding 15 rockets on each side, for a total of 30...

    Yes, I suspect there are three different pallet types... the 15 tube pallet will likely be 122mm calibre so two pallets means 30 rockets, while the 220mm pallet likely has 8 tubes per pallet meaning 16 tubes, the same as Uragan, while the 6 tube pallet likely is the 300mm Smerch rocket pallet.



    The above picture shows the 15 tube per pallet system which by the look of it uses 122mm calibre rockets.



    This drawing however seems to show another palletised system with 20 rockets per pallet.

    I have yet to see the 8 tube 220mm rocket pallet and have only seen the 6 tube 300mm pallet.

    To me a light vehicle able to carry half the payload of the existing systems and a medium vehicle able to carry the same payload as existing vehicles would make a lot of sense operationally.

    the medium system could be the standard system and the light system could be used in places and environments where the heavier system would not be very mobile.

    For a mountain unit or a light or arctic unit the light unit might be more affordable and more mobile... and it would likely have better export potential too.
    Those tubes are way to large to be 122 mm! Look at these for reference...


    And...

    See the difference between these and the picture you posted? My guess is that the 220 mm has *either* 16 or 30 rockets for some reason, maybe the 16 one is actually export? 

    The 300 mm Smerch upgrade will have either 6 or 12 rockets, so it is likely the 220 mm -U has a similar option as well.

    Thanks Morpheus for the added reference above.

    Vann7

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:52 pm



    What would it take Russia to get a Tornado launch 500mm rockets? the heavier the rocket the better
    the punching power.. imagine a Tornado -Ultra with such rockets carrying at least 20 of them.. Smile

    I thinking if Russia wanted it they could do it.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:06 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    What would it take Russia to get a Tornado launch 500mm rockets?  the heavier the rocket the better
    the punching power.. imagine a Tornado -Ultra  with such rockets carrying at least 20 of them.. Smile

    I thinking if Russia wanted it they could do it.
    They don't have any 500 mm rockets... At that point that are basically cruise missiles or ballistic missiles, no point IMHO.

    The Smerch can't even hold 20 300 mm rockets, how on Earth would anything hold 20 500 mm ones?

    They could, but what is the point?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:09 pm

    Those tubes are way to large to be 122 mm! Look at these for reference...

    Yes, you are quite right.

    So the 15 tube pallets are 220mm and the 300mm are 6 tubes per pallet, but I have yet to see the 122mm pallets.

    See the difference between these and the picture you posted? My guess is that the 220 mm has *either* 16 or 30 rockets for some reason, maybe the 16 one is actually export?

    You have to be careful... there are a range of 122mm rockets in Russian service... including 10km range anti diver rockets for coastal protection, and various different platforms with differing numbers of tubes.

    Looking at the pictures of Tornado-G the 122mm system doesn't seem to use a palletised system, so the medium vehicles might just have 220mm and 300mm options, while the smaller lighter vehicles might only be 122mm.

    There is one light vehicle designed to use pallets, but if there is no 122mm pallet system then it might only be able to use 220mm and 300mm rockets (one pallet instead of the mediums two).

    ie light vehicle:



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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:..., but I have yet to see the 122mm pallets.

    These seem to be 122 mm rocket/missile pallets (of the reloadable type) for another version of Tornado-G.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Those tubes are way to large to be 122 mm! Look at these for reference...

    Yes, you are quite right.

    So the 15 tube pallets are 220mm and the 300mm are 6 tubes per pallet, but I have yet to see the 122mm pallets.

    See the difference between these and the picture you posted? My guess is that the 220 mm has *either* 16 or 30 rockets for some reason, maybe the 16 one is actually export?

    You have to be careful... there are a range of 122mm rockets in Russian service... including 10km range anti diver rockets for coastal protection, and various different platforms with differing numbers of tubes.

    Looking at the pictures of Tornado-G the 122mm system doesn't seem to use a palletised system, so the medium vehicles might just have 220mm and 300mm options, while the smaller lighter vehicles might only be 122mm.

    There is one light vehicle designed to use pallets, but if there is no 122mm pallet system then it might only be able to use 220mm and 300mm rockets (one pallet instead of the mediums two).

    ie light vehicle:

    Yep.... I haven't seen any 122 mm "pallets" either, only the Tornado G's rocket tube alignment which is like the Grads.

    True, but in general, the system may have a variant with a larger number of tubes. I'm not certain, but it is plausible 

    Morpheus, the "Modernized Grad" with 15 barrels on each side is 220 mm.
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:00 am

    Mike E wrote:Morpheus, the "Modernized Grad" with 15 barrels on each side is 220 mm.

    I had the following picture in mind. What do you think about the launch tube size of these pallets?

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    GarryB wrote:..., but I have yet to see the 122mm pallets.

    These seem to be 122 mm rocket/missile pallets (of the reloadable type) for another version of Tornado-G.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:04 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Morpheus, the "Modernized Grad" with 15 barrels on each side is 220 mm.

    I had the following picture in mind. What do you think about the launch tube size of these pallets?

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    GarryB wrote:..., but I have yet to see the 122mm pallets.

    These seem to be 122 mm rocket/missile pallets (of the reloadable type) for another version of Tornado-G.


    Got it... Anyway, those pallets do look like they are Tornado chassis ready. My question is ifthey will actual use them, or will they go for the Tornado-G only? So far the -G seems to be their choice, but these pallets somewhat contradict that!
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:29 am

    Mike E wrote:Got it... Anyway, those pallets do look like they are Tornado chassis ready. My question is ifthey will actual use them, or will they go for the Tornado-G only? So far the -G seems to be their choice, but these pallets somewhat contradict that!

    I think from a tactical point of view, they have to use Tornado-G or other tactically equivalent systems as part the brigade-organic MRL assets. Please note that previously Grad type systems were for divisional use, and the smaller Grad-1 type systems were for regimental use.

    I think the 122 mm pallets on larger vehicles are technical gimmicks, except that, they may be intended for the subordination of 122 mm rockets, also, to the operational command (in parallel to the 220 mm and 300 mm systems), even though, Tornado-G or other tactically equivalent systems still make more sense even as assets subordinated to the operational command.

    I am also certain that we would see variants of Tornado-G on other chassis types, e.g. tracked chassis, for use in various brigade types.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:30 am

    So we have 20 tube pallets for the 122mm rockets, 15 tube pallets for the 220mm rockets and 6 tube pallets for the 300mm rockets.

    That makes sense.

    With the new pallet based system I wonder if they have a heavily armoured tracked chassis that they might add the TOS rockets to the system.

    Usually a 30 tube system a pallet for TOS would be interesting for an Armata vehicle... it could perform short range anti mine missions with TOS rockets, or long range artillery missions with Smerch and everything in between.

    I guess that would be taking standardisation too far.

    BTW the 122mm pallet idea has also gone to sea:



    reloadable from below deck pallets...

    Nice pics BTW Morph...


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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:09 pm

    Do ship mounted 122mm MLRSs have Guided rounds? If so then russia would have a perfect anti-insurgency and anti-piracy tool able to be equipped on most small ships without wasting billions on underequipped Lemons like the US did with the littoral ships program...
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:44 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Do ship mounted 122mm MLRSs have Guided rounds? If so then russia would have a perfect anti-insurgency and anti-piracy tool able to be equipped on most small ships without wasting billions on underequipped Lemons like the US did with the littoral ships program...

    Yes, they have both guided missiles and corrected rockets, with "corrected rockets" referring to a different novel inexpensive concept.

    As an aside, the Russian amphibious ships used naval 122 mm MRLs to fire targeted unguided warning rockets at the Georgian naval vessels during the 2008 war, before using guided missiles to sink them.
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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:19 pm

    i dont see any news in internet about further deliveries. Can someone inform us with any info he may have?
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    Mike E

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Mike E on Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:So we have 20 tube pallets for the 122mm rockets, 15 tube pallets for the 220mm rockets and 6 tube pallets for the 300mm rockets.

    That makes sense.

    With the new pallet based system I wonder if they have a heavily armoured tracked chassis that they might add the TOS rockets to the system.

    Usually a 30 tube system a pallet for TOS would be interesting for an Armata vehicle... it could perform short range anti mine missions with TOS rockets, or long range artillery missions with Smerch and everything in between.

    I guess that would be taking standardisation too far.

    BTW the 122mm pallet idea has also gone to sea:



    reloadable from below deck pallets...

    Nice pics BTW Morph...
    Holy ****..... (Yes, I know I'm late) That is exactly what I had in my mind a couple months ago... A 122 mm Grad-like naval system that would be reloaded from under-deck. Great minds think alike, eh?
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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:51 am

    Tornado-S and Smerch have the capability to fire tactical missiles also?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:29 am

    Probably not, but the heavier vehicle will likely be unified with the Iskander system and therefore will operate with both ballistic and cruise missiles.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Viktor on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:13 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    In the Eastern Military District troops arrived latest multiple launch rocket systems "Tornado-G"

    About 20 new multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Tornado-G" came in motorized infantry connection Eastern Military District (BBO) to replace the MLRS "Grad".
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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:44 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup

    In the Eastern Military District troops arrived latest multiple launch rocket systems "Tornado-G"

    About 20 new multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Tornado-G" came in motorized infantry connection Eastern Military District (BBO) to replace the MLRS "Grad".

    they are identical in view right?
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    Akula971

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Akula971 on Tue May 12, 2015 8:03 am

    This has me quite confused, how different does a Tornado G look from a BM 21 GRAD ??

    The other variants of the Tornado look different from the base models, albeit being lighter and all but so far, all the intel i have suggets that the Tornado G and the BM 21 Grad look the same ?

    I am just talking about appearance here, not the range and GLONASS support that has been added.

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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Tue May 12, 2015 3:45 pm

    Akula971 wrote:This has me quite confused, how different does a Tornado G look from a BM 21 GRAD ??

    The other variants of the Tornado look different from the base models, albeit being lighter and all but so far, all the intel i have suggets that the Tornado G and the BM 21 Grad look the same ?

    I am just talking about appearance here, not the range and GLONASS support that has been added.


    yes exactly the same in appearance
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    Akula971

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Akula971 on Tue May 12, 2015 5:30 pm

    So that means its not air droppable like its S and U versions.

    Still the added range is amazing. 100Kms is a lot. I believe they can have the vehicles relocate before the salvo reaches its target from that distance.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 13, 2015 3:13 am

    Akula971 wrote:So that means its not air droppable like its S and U versions.

    Still the added range is amazing. 100Kms is a lot. I believe they can have the vehicles relocate before the salvo reaches its target from that distance.

    AFAIK, the max range for the Tornado-G is 90km, while some sources mention 40-50km.

    It's basically an upgraded GRAD with sat-nav, automation of the targeting process and new rockets

    some of the novelties on it (click)
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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Wed May 13, 2015 3:24 am

    i wonder why Russian military hasn't received yet Tornado-U or -S.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 13, 2015 3:33 am

    There was a report that the Tornado-S started entering service at the end of 2014, but I haven't seen any photo evidence yet.
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    George1

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    Re: Tornado MLRS family: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:06 pm


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