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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

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    franco

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  franco on Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:03 pm

    First Tornado-S delivered to Russian Army. Not specified numbers or unit yet.
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  Benya on Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:46 pm

    Over 60 Tornado-G MLRS and 20 Msta-SM howitzers delivered to Russian Army in 2016

    Over 60 Tornado-G multiple-launch rockets systems (MLRS) and more than 20 Msta-SM howitzers have been delivered to the Russian Army in 2016, the service chief, Colonel General Oleg Salyukov, said at the annual session of the Military Council of the Russian Army’s command element.


    Russian Tornado-G Multiple-Launch Rockets Systems

    Two Iskander-M missile system brigade sets, over 60 Tornado-G MLRS and upwards of 20 Msta-SM self-propelled howitzers have been received in 2016," the service chief said. In excess of 70 upgraded Grad-M MLRS have been fielded too, Salyukov added.

    The Iskander-M missile systems is designed for destroying command posts, signal centers, aircraft at airfields, guided missile systems, MLRS and long-range tube artillery at a range of 500 km.

    The Tornado-G is designed to strike exposed and sheltered manpower, armor, field artillery guns, mortars and command posts. The system is two to three times more lethal than the Grad MLRS owing to its enhanced-lethality rockets and automated laying/targeting, survey and navigation systems.

    The mainstay of the firepower of the 2S33 Msta-SM SP howitzer, the antecedent to the cutting-edge 2S35 Koalitsiya SP howitzer, is the 152-mm 2A65 gun with a rate of fire exceeding 10 rounds per minute.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/over_60_tornado-g_mlrs_and_20_msta-sm_howitzers_delivered_to_russian_army_in_2016_72912163.html
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:53 pm

    According to a post by Victor, Russia is supposed to procure something like 700 MLRS systems. So the 60 is a little low in the numbers for the total plan.
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    franco

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    Over 60 Tornado-G MLRS and 20 Msta-SM howitzers delivered to Russian Army in 2016

    Post  franco on Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:According to a post by Victor, Russia is supposed to procure something like 700 MLRS systems.  So the 60 is a little low in the numbers for the total plan.

    Missing a key word... "modernized" MRLS systems. So 60 new and 80 upgraded = 140 modernized. For all artillery fire support weapons 2011-2020 procurement plan is over 2,000 units of which ~700 will be MRLS.

    BliTTzZ

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  BliTTzZ on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:54 am

    Technically there are going to be fours MRLS systems:
    - Tornado-G (upgraded 122mm Grad);
    - Tornado-U (upgraded 220mm Uragan);
    - Tornado-S (upgraded 300mm Search);
    - new bicaliber system Uragan-1M, which can use 220mm and 300mm rockets. Didn't find any info about 122mm yet.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:57 pm

    Russia will outfit its Smerch and Uragan heavy multiple rocket launchers with specially designed canvas tents to make them invisible to enemy satellites and radar, the Moscow-based newspaper Izvestia wrote.

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701171049670624-russia-smerch-cloak/
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  Benya on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:20 pm

    Russian Tornado-S 300mm Multiple Launch Rocket System MLRS has successfully passed state trials

    The Russian-made Tornado-S 300mm multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) by the Splav scientific production association (a subsidiary of the Russian Rostec state corporation) has successfully passed state trials, the Director General of the company, Vladimir Lepin told the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.


    Russian-made Tornado-S 300mm MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System)

    "The Tornado-S is a really massive work. The state trials have been finished with a positive result; we have implemented the design and development work in total…It marks a new era in the industry," Lepin said.

    He added that Splav features a large portfolio of MLRS. "We have something to offer to the Russian Ministry of Defense, namely, Tornado-G, Tornado-S, Uragan-1M systems. These developments are new ones, and they have reflected in the Russian State Defense Order (GOZ, Gosoboronzakaz) program. We have increased the production output more than twofold for the last two years," the director said. He added that the company had implemented GOZ-2016 to full degree ahead-of-schedule. Lepin pointed out that the Tornado-G MLRS had been accepted for service in 2014.

    According to him, the items of hardware developed by Splav are in high demand on the global market. "The Rosoboronexport company (a subsidiary of the Rostec state corporation) has been increasing the volumes of our production sales in a drastic manner in the recent years. We are working closely with the Arab world, countries of the East, and India. For instance, the Grad MLRS has been delivered to 64 foreign countries since its development in 1963," Lepin emphasized.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2017_global_defense_security_army_news_industry/russian_tornado-s_300mm_multiple_launch_rocket_system_mlrs_successfully_passed_state_trials_13101171.html

    BliTTzZ

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  BliTTzZ on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:30 pm

    Benya wrote:

    Russian-made Tornado-S 300mm MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System)
    That's not "Tornado-S" on the picture, it's "Uragan-1M", new bicaliber MLRS. "Tornado-S" is upgraded BM-30 "Smerch", they look almost the same.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:39 am

    If one system can carry pallets of rockets ready to fire and can carry them in three different calibres (ie 122mm, 220mm and 300mm) then why also have upgraded models of the Grad, Uragan, and Smerch too?

    I mean I could understand the development of a light vehicle based on a light truck that carries one pallet of either 122mm, 220mm or 300mm that could go places the heavier vehicles could not and would be cheaper to buy and operate, and I can see the point in a much larger heavier vehicle that can carry two pallets of rockets ready to fire in the three calibres, but what I don't understand is the idea of having all three original vehicles in their different calibres plus a new vehicle able to carry the same ordinance as those three original vehicles.

    Just seems a little redundant.

    Perhaps what we are seeing is what the company wants to sell rather than what the Russian Army wants to buy.

    For now upgrades of the Grad make sense because the light vehicle has good mobility and low cost so it will always make sense, but having a slightly heavier vehicle able to replicate the loads of the three vehicles previously in service with all three calibre options means replacing three different vehicle types with two vehicle types without having to give up a calibre.

    BliTTzZ

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  BliTTzZ on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:20 am

    GarryB wrote:If one system can carry pallets of rockets ready to fire and can carry them in three different calibres (ie 122mm, 220mm and 300mm) then why also have upgraded models of the Grad, Uragan, and Smerch too?

    I mean I could understand the development of a light vehicle based on a light truck that carries one pallet of either 122mm, 220mm or 300mm that could go places the heavier vehicles could not and would be cheaper to buy and operate, and I can see the point in a much larger heavier vehicle that can carry two pallets of rockets ready to fire in the three calibres, but what I don't understand is the idea of having all three original vehicles in their different calibres plus a new vehicle able to carry the same ordinance as those three original vehicles.

    Just seems a little redundant.

    Perhaps what we are seeing is what the company wants to sell rather than what the Russian Army wants to buy.

    For now upgrades of the Grad make sense because the light vehicle has good mobility and low cost so it will always make sense, but having a slightly heavier vehicle able to replicate the loads of the three vehicles previously in service with all three calibre options means replacing three different vehicle types with two vehicle types without having to give up a calibre.
    The interesting part is, as far as I know, that this system is going to use also ATACMS type of missiles, but funny enough I can't find any information about 122mm pellet packs. I personally think this system has its advantages over previous generation mono type vehicles. It requires less time to change the packs than to manually reload ammunition.

    Also I can't find any information about upgraded Uragan, only about Grad and Smerch.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:06 am

    I understand the concept of pallet packs speeding up reloading but in a real conflict after firing the rockets the most important thing is to move immediately.

    The time it takes to move to a new position means reloading when you arrive at a new position is not as urgent as some might think.

    Personally I think the idea of being able to carry different calibres of rocket on one truck platform is the best feature of the pallet load concept. The fast reload capacity a very secondary factor.

    Smerch rockets have stabilisation gyros on board to ensure a volley lands in a fairly tight group no matter what the range but AFAIK there are no ATACMs developed for the system. It would make more sense to use Tochka-U or Iskander for such missiones. There are sensor fused munition models for anti armour use but otherwise no homing models I know of.

    There will be ground launched Hermes type ground to ground rockets with terminal guidance systems, so guided unguided rockets would be redundant to me.


    Also I can't find any information about upgraded Uragan, only about Grad and Smerch.

    Again... a lighter vehicle makes sense and a heavier vehicle able to carry more rockets makes sense but a middle weight vehicle does not make sense to me... especially if the light vehicle can carry one pallet of all three rocket calibres and the larger vehicle can carry two pallets of all three rocket calibres... what would be left for the middle vehicle to do?

    regarding the 122mm calibre pallets:





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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  BliTTzZ on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:02 pm

    I understand the concept of pallet packs speeding up reloading but in a real conflict after firing the rockets the most iпmportant thing is to move immediately.

    The time it takes to move to a new position means reloading when you arrive at a new position is not as urgent as some might think.

    Personally I think the idea of being able to carry different calibres of rocket on one truck platform is the best feature of the pallet load concept. The fast reload capacity a very secondary factor.
    I agree with you on this but if you're involved in conflict with asymmetric warfare, when your forces against some guerrillas from no to minimum capability to retaliate after your strikes. Then reload time becomes more important here if, for example, it's necessary to cover large area quickly.


    Smerch rockets have stabilisation gyros on board to ensure a volley lands in a fairly tight group no matter what the range but AFAIK there are no ATACMs developed for the system. It would make more sense to use Tochka-U or Iskander for such missiones. There are sensor fused munition models for anti armour use but otherwise no homing models I know of.
    Right now I can't find the source of this info I mentioned before, sorry. IIRC it was some kind of blog, similar to bmpd.

    I was also very curious about it because of analogy with ATACMS for M270 and HIMARS. But in contrary to Russia US doesn't have independent platforms like Tochka or Iskander, so their vehicles are more multirole.


    Again... a lighter vehicle makes sense and a heavier vehicle able to carry more rockets makes sense but a middle weight vehicle does not make sense to me... especially if the light vehicle can carry one pallet of all three rocket calibres and the larger vehicle can carry two pallets of all three rocket calibres... what would be left for the middle vehicle to do?
    No, I was talking about modernisation for older Grad, Uragan and Smerch systems. First and third upgraded vehicles are already on duty, but no words about modernized Uragan. And as we can see 220mm rockets are planned for Uragan-1M, so there's still use for this type of ammunition.


    regarding the 122mm calibre pallets:




    On the first picture it's not Uragan-1M but modified Grad on Kamaz chassis, while the second one is pretty old, dated year 2013 IIRC.
    Most recent photos I've seen are from celebration of Artillery Day at Luga. And this particular vehicle presented there was equipped with 220mm and 300mm ammo containers. Don't get me wrong like I'm trying to argue what you said about 122mm packs, there's just to little footage of this vehicle nowadays.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:53 am

    Great News, Smerch's successor, Tornado-S will get GLONASS guided munitions capable of destroying targets beyond 200km's!

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvpk.name%2Fnews%2F174562_izvestiya_noveishaya_rszo_tornados_poluchit_sverhtochnuyu_raketu_so_sputnikovoi_navigaciei.html&edit-text=&act=url

    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  Project Canada on Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:58 am

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    George1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:49 pm

    MLRS "Uragan-1M" in St. Michael's military academy

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2429120.html
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:10 pm

    Since this thread is about Soviet era rockets launchers shouldn't it be relocated to the USSR history thread?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:21 am

    Good point.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:23 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Since this thread is about Soviet era rockets launchers shouldn't it be relocated to the USSR history thread?

    i had it in Russian army because these old MRLS are still in service. And there are still news for these systems, e.g. Modernization of Grad, Uragan deployment etc
    MiG-29 and Su-25, Su-27 also are of soviet era but still in service with russian army
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    franco

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  franco on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:14 pm

    First new modern Smerch MRLS arrived at T'ver (79th brigade). First upgraded unit should be operational by summer.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12119092@egNews
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 am

    George1 wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Since this thread is about Soviet era rockets launchers shouldn't it be relocated to the USSR history thread?

    i had it in Russian army because these old MRLS are still in service. And there are still news for these systems, e.g. Modernization of Grad, Uragan deployment etc
    MiG-29 and Su-25, Su-27 also are of soviet era but still in service with russian army

    Makes sense.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:04 am

    franco wrote:First new modern Smerch MRLS arrived at T'ver (79th brigade). First upgraded unit should be operational by summer.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12119092@egNews

    "Seven Smerch multiple rocket launchers have arrived for the Western Military District’s rocket artillery brigade stationed in the Tver Region as part of the troops’ planned rearmament with modern weapon systems and equipment. Late this month, the arrival of another five combat vehicles is expected," the district’s press office said.
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/941779

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:37 am



    200km range is pretty good. the only down is that it only carry 12 missiles.
    Will have been nicer to see Super heavy trucks to carry ~36 missiles instead or better
    50 missiles . It might require a more bigger truck but the fire power will be worth of it.
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    0nillie0

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  0nillie0 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:39 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    200km range is pretty good. the only down is that it only carry 12 missiles.
    Will have been nicer to see Super heavy trucks to carry ~36 missiles instead or better
    50 missiles . It might require a more bigger truck but the fire power will be worth of it.

    A truck with 50 300mm rockets would make for a big, juicy, slow moving target
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:43 am

    It would be stupid to try to fit 50 300mm rockets on to one truck, the weight alone would limit where it could drive to only sealed roads and heavy bridges.

    These vehicles operate in groups, not on their own... so why make the vehicle stupid heavy by putting all the rockets on one vehicle?

    For each launch vehicle there will be several loading vehicles... it would take too long to fire off 50 rockets... any competent enemy would attack you in the time it took to fire all 50 rockets and then move.

    Carrying 36 missiles is easy... just use three trucks...
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

    Post  Regular on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:48 am

    Funny thing is Russia actually making less tubes on their MLRS systems. Reason is because better accuracy of new systems and better logistics.

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan, Tornado

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