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    Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:39 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The US government has come out and said S-300 sales would not be effected by UNSC resolutions and lets face it... they would say black is white if it suited them...

    The fact that US now is stating that Russia is responsible for the failed sale, that they now owe Iran money. Of course they will say that Black is white if it suites them. This is an in your face to Russia and Russia fell for it.

    Well, Russia should made the delivery with one S-300 battery free of charge Very Happy and settle that problem once and for all.

    Anyway, Iran will need new planes and new nuclear power plants and other so Russia can jump in.
    That would depend on what sort of back-door deal Russia made with the West, but then again if it's not in black and white (paper) they might as well jump in, there is money to be made of a country who's sovereignty is being threatened by a foreign warmongering aggressor/conquerer. Twisted Evil
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:23 am

    Of course they will say that Black is white if it suites them. This is an in your face to Russia and Russia fell for it.

    I would suspect the US and Israel made all sorts of threats and promises to get Russia to stop the deal at the time... Medvedev made the decision... would love to see Putin decide that the US is right and there was no reason not to sell S-300 to Iran and order deliveries to start straight away. Iran has said it doesn't want the money... it wants the deal to be back on so it can have the missiles.

    Well, Russia should made the delivery with one S-300 battery free of charge Very Happy and settle that problem once and for all.

    That wouldn't make it any money though... perhaps a better solution might be to offer to sell them Su-35s or Mig-35s, or perhaps Mig-29M2s or Su-30SMs to update their air fleet?

    That would depend on what sort of back-door deal Russia made with the West, but then again if it's not in black and white (paper) they might as well jump in, there is money to be made of a country who's sovereignty is being threatened by a foreign warmongering aggressor/conquerer.

    The fact that the US is now publicly stating Russia is in the wrong suggests to me any deal they might have had is now off.


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:57 am

    What's with the delay.
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    SOC

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SOC on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:03 am

    GarryB wrote:I would suspect the US and Israel made all sorts of threats and promises to get Russia to stop the deal at the time...

    Israel is still threatening to blow them up if delivered. I still don't know why they think this is such a big deal. What happened to their announced ability to defeat the S-300 series?

    GarryB wrote:Iran has said it doesn't want the money... it wants the deal to be back on so it can have the missiles.

    ...because they're starting to realize you can't defend yourself with models and photoshop.

    GarryB wrote:That wouldn't make it any money though... perhaps a better solution might be to offer to sell them Su-35s or Mig-35s, or perhaps Mig-29M2s or Su-30SMs to update their air fleet?

    That would make way too much sense; alternatively, one has to really wonder why the PRC hasn't strolled in and taken over this market. The Iranians seem content to build models and learn combat aircraft design from a 1960's perspective. I could come up with all sorts of hilarious theories about why they just don't seem to want to let go of their US-built aircraft, and none of them are technological.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:11 am

    The Iranians seem content to build models and learn combat aircraft design from a 1960's perspective. I could come up with all sorts of hilarious theories about why they just don't seem to want to let go of their US-built aircraft, and none of them are technological.

    For all the talk of Russia Iran best buddies... the Iranians really don't like the Russians any better than they like the US or Israel.

    Some Mig-29s arrived from Iraq and they bought some more from Mig, but I don't think they were that happy with the service they got and so they continued to make do with what they had.

    The isolation means they probably don't realise what a difference an airforce of Mig-29M2s and Su-35s replacing Phantoms and F-14s respectively might make to their territorial sovereignty, but I suspect their experience with one superpower in the 70s turned them off them for good.

    Israel is still threatening to blow them up if delivered. I still don't know why they think this is such a big deal. What happened to their announced ability to defeat the S-300 series?

    The thing is that until they get them into service their chances of stopping Israel from blowing things up in their country will not remain super high. After they arrive then the options suddenly decrease dramatically and the risks suddenly skyrocket... which would mean the Israelis would likely change tack from threatening to attack to suggesting the US attacks for them... for the sake of peace and democracy in the region...


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:42 pm

    Interesting. Russia has not sent its reply jet. This could mean they are weighting the decision.

    I hope they will deliver and put 1 bin $ in their pocket. They can build a brand new Almaz-Antej factory of out that money.


    Iran is waiting for a response from the Russian Federation to the proposal to withdraw the claim on the C-300


    MOSCOW, June 7 - RIA Novosti reported. Iran expects Russia's response to the proposal to withdraw the claim on deliveries of S-300, said Friday the Iranian Ambassador to Moscow Mahmoud Reza Sajjadi.

    "At the moment the ball on the side of Russia, but we are ready to continue cooperation on the C-300", - he said.

    Iran sued for $ 4 billion to the International Arbitration Court of Geneva to the Russian company "Rosoboronexport" in the case of cancellation of the contract for the supply of S-300 systems. According to media reports, Tehran is ready to withdraw the claim for delivery of S-300, if Russia implements this contract.

    The head of Rostekhnadzor Chemezov said last week that Russia has little chance of winning the lawsuit filed by Iran's non-realization of the contract for sale of air defense systems S-300, and Moscow is trying to "now negotiate with Iran to sign the settlement agreement, but to no avail."



    LINK
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:42 pm

    Haha, Russia proposed TOR-M2 as substitute for a S-300 Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Iran Rejects Russia’s S-300 Substitute Offer

    LINK
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    SOC

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:45 pm

    Iran is not Cyprus lol!
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:38 pm

    Viktor wrote:Haha, Russia proposed TOR-M2 as substitute for a S-300 Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Iran Rejects Russia’s S-300 Substitute Offer

    LINK
    Ooh, come on, at the very least they should have offered them the Antey-2500. Rolling Eyes
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    TR1

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:41 pm

    I don't get why Iran thinks it has the upper hand in these demands.

    Russia has the right to refuse a deal, UN sanctions or not. It returned any money Iran paid, and while I can understand Iran seeking some compensation, this multi billion suit is a farce.

    If I was Iran I'd be making concessions and convincing arguments from behind the scene, not making this public debacle.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:26 pm

    TR1 wrote:I don't get why Iran thinks it has the upper hand in these demands.

    Russia has the right to refuse a deal, UN sanctions or not. It returned any money Iran paid, and while I can understand Iran seeking some compensation, this multi billion suit is a farce.

    If I was Iran I'd be making concessions and convincing arguments from behind the scene, not making this public debacle.
    If so, then i agree.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:03 pm

    The money has been returned.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:31 am

    Well, as GarryB mentioned on the topic on S-400/500

    GarryB wrote:
    This one is interesting.  Any information on this?  Cause Antey-2500 is quite old and figured that it would have tested successfuly quite some time ago against real targets.  Unless there is a newer missile?
    Antei-2500 is S-300VM and is not that old... and to be honest I think will suit Iran much better than the truck based S-300. Performance figures like the ability to engage 16 ballistic targets at once with RCS of 0.02m2 at speeds of up to 4.5km/s or up to 24 aerodynamic targets at once suggest a very capable system...

    showing of its newly found prophet abilities Very Happy

    really unexpected situation development - I tough that S-300PMU1 would be delivered after all (and one battery free of charge as a repay for delay) I never saw 

    Antej-2500 marching in to Iran coming. 

    Luckily for Iranians, Russia has loads of air defense systems to sell and all are deadly as hell LaughingLaughingLaughing

    Russia Offers Iran New Replacement for S-300 – Paper wrote:LINK

    Its going to get interesting 

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:40 pm

    Its going to be interesting

    Iran, Russia presidents to negotiate Syria, Caspian Sea in Moscow
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    SOC

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SOC on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:05 pm

    It it the S-300VM or nothing at this point? I thought the S-300P series went out of production. Not sure I buy the "it's better for Iran's Army" one bit, though. The S-300P was perfectly mobile as long as you stayed away from the PT model.

    Also, that is an older S-300V in the image, not a VM!

    Austin

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:15 pm

    Recent statement by Iran President saying they would support Syria as long as Russia would support them means they are more alligned to on this issue.

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_07_02/Iranians-will-stand-by-Syria-as-long-Russia-stands-by-it-as-well-Ahmadinejad-8198/

    I believe Iran would be better served by opting for S-300VM is more mobile and has ABM capability atleast as good as PAC-3.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:18 pm

    Austin wrote:Recent statement by Iran President saying they would support Syria as long as Russia would support them means they are more alligned to on this issue.

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_07_02/Iranians-will-stand-by-Syria-as-long-Russia-stands-by-it-as-well-Ahmadinejad-8198/

    I believe Iran would be better served by opting for S-300VM is more mobile and has ABM capability atleast as good as PAC-3.

    Try with: "surpassing PAC-3 by large margin". And THAT would be correct.


    SOC wrote:It it the S-300VM or nothing at this point?

    Yesterday, Ahmadinejad held 2 hour meeting with Russian president and Russian political elite but still there are no information about S-300.


    SOC wrote:I thought the S-300P series went out of production.

    Only for domestic purposes. It is still produced for export (S-300PMU2 that is).


    SOC wrote:Also, that is an older S-300V in the image, not a VM!

    I know, but its my favorite S-300V picture. attack 
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:47 pm

    Present Iranian president was commander of all Iran PVO troops back in late 80ies and early 90ies so I guess this will be interesting.
    On agenda will be:

    - S-300VM
    - construction of new NPP


    Putin to offer advanced antimissiles to soothe Iran’s S-300 grudge – report

    Russian President Vladimir Putin may visit Tehran next month, according to a newspaper report. Among other things he is to discuss with Iran’s new president is a possible deal to supply advanced antiballistic missiles to the Islamic Republic.


    Russia is offering Iran to purchase S-300VM Antey-2500 air defense systems, according to defense industry sources. It’s a cousin of the S-300 long-range surface-to-air missile family. S-300s were developed for the Soviet air defense forces, but the ground forces, an organizationally distinct branch of the army, wanted a similar system tailored for their own needs. On their order the S-300V was developed and later upgraded to the better S-300VM version.

    ........

    LINK
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:04 pm

    Gone for good. What a shameful end for such a system.

    Russia dispose of Iranian S-300
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:23 pm

    And some nice words coming out of Rogozin - I think S-300VM is in the pipeline

    Moscow may negotiate sales of systems similar to S-300 to Iran only if suits withdrawn - Deputy PM Rogozin

    LINK
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:51 am

    Viktor wrote:And some nice words coming out of Rogozin - I think S-300VM is in the pipeline

    Moscow may negotiate sales of systems similar to S-300 to Iran only if suits withdrawn - Deputy PM Rogozin

    LINK
    Wouldn't offering them the system to withdraw said suit make more sense?? Neutral 
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:55 am

    and now they are discussing about possible delivery of S-300VM brigade. In case of Army PVO, battalion reffers to regiment.

    In this case of Iran 5 battalions of S-300VM cost 4 bin $ making 800 million $ per battalion / regiment.

    Anyway this sugested equipment has serious firepower.



    Russia could supply Iran with five battalions of S-300VM "Antey-2500"


    According to media reports, this topic will be discussed on Friday during the first meeting of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the new president of Iran Hassan Rouhani in the margins of the SCO summit in Bishkek.



    MOSCOW, Sept. 11 - RIA Novosti. Russia is ready to supply Iran with five battalions of S-300VM "Antey-2500" (modified export version of the S-300V), subject to review Tehran's claim "Rosoboronexport" $ 4 billion for the failure of the previous contract, wrote in a Wednesday newspaper "Kommersant" quoted a source close to the Kremlin.


    The contract to supply Iran with five battalions of S-300 (modification of PMU-1) cost about $ 800 million was signed in 2007. Three years later, the UN Security Council adopted a resolution on Iran, which has introduced sanctions against him, including a ban on the transfer of modern weapons. In September 2010, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed a decree on measures to implement the resolution, introducing a tougher Iran sanctions than provided by the decision of the UN Security Council. There was, in particular, canceled a contract to supply S-300. Iran has filed a lawsuit against Rosoboronexport to arbitration in Geneva. Russia offered to make peace, promising new supply of air defense missile systems "Tor-M1E" but such an exchange of Iran did not accept.


    According to the paper, this topic will be discussed on Friday during the first meeting of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the new president of Iran Hassan Rouhani in the margins of the SCO summit in Bishkek. In addition, according to the newspaper, it will be the construction of Russia and the second power plant in Bushehr. High interest in such a transaction expressed during his recent visit to Moscow, the former president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.


    A spokesman for the Russian President, Dmitry Peskov, the proviso that the Kremlin "does not detail the agenda of the upcoming talks," however, confirmed to the newspaper that the two topics will be discussed during the meeting between Vladimir Putin and Hassan Rouhani. "They will discuss cooperation in the atomic energy sector, including in the context of the Bushehr nuclear power plant - the subject can not be avoided," - he said, adding that "the issues of military-technical cooperation is also on the agenda."


    LINK

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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:03 pm

    So this 4 billion$ would be new payment ( less already paid) or is it the settlement obtained that is fulfilled with s300vm?
    IMO, this would be great since s-300p series has always been the center of attention by the othrr side and thus has more countermeasures aimed against it.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:10 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:So this 4 billion$ would be new payment ( less already paid) or is it the settlement obtained that is fulfilled with s300vm?
    IMO, this would be great since s-300p series has always been the center of attention by the othrr side and thus has more countermeasures aimed against it.
    Iran would give up on the law suit and Russia would get 4 bin $ in air defense orders.

    On the other hand Iran would get much more powerful system than S-300PMU1 and 3-4 times more of it than initial numbers planed with S-300PMU1.
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    mack8

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  mack8 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:39 am

    Imo, i'm sure it must be the same number as S-300PMU-1, if those cost about 1 billion, probably the Anteys will be a bit more, but not 4 billion. Well, if Venezuela got them, perhaps this time they will deliver to Iran too (and PMU2s to Syria!).

    Mind you, if they are really ready to fork 4 billion on AD systems, they could use another 30 or so Tor-M2 (to protect S-300VM among other things). If that Ra'ad thing is really a functional and good SAM system, then if they build/get say 30-40 of those, and coupled with their indigenous/ chinese alleged long range Bavar-373 (HQ-9 tech? must be russian, chinese or belorussian tech, there's no way they're independently capable of creating such a SAM), the short range indigenous/chinese Crotale SAMs, and the allegedly modified HAWKs, plus their AAA, they're going to have a pretty respectable AD capability.  IF that will happen, next step (or rather parallel) is to get some bloody Sukhois and MiGs and some chinese planes dammit, and quit embarrassing themselves with those pitiful fiberglass models or useless twin-tail F-5s...!

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