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    Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

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    Austin

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:45 pm

    Exactly Russia and China have consistently maintained that any sanction which is approved by UN will be implemented fully in letter and spirit.

    But it opposes any unilaterally sanctions against Iran like US senators and govt keeps piling up from time to time at the behest of Israel.

    Pervius

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Pervius on Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:31 pm

    Couldn't Russia repaint the S-300's white and blue and sell them as Space Defense Systems? Able to shoot down meteors and asteroids?

    That wouldn't violate the Embargo. Not for military use....for self defense against rocks from space.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:47 am

    Don't be silly... if Iran isn't allow to defend itself from Israeli or US bomber aircraft why should they be allowed to defend themselves from anything else? Smile
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:11 pm

    I hope Russia has its own good calculation for not selling S-300 systems cozz I can not understand it and I cant believe it was western pressure cozz they sold Syria Bastion coastal defense system.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:02 pm

    I read the Iranians are taking Russia to the UN court over it.

    Not to punish the Russians, but to let them go through with the sale without the west trying to impose sanctions on Russia for breaking UN sanctions on Iran.

    As far as I can tell the Russians are saying that the new sanctions on Iran ban the sales of all missiles.
    Iran is saying that the sanctions only ban missiles that are defined in a specific subsection and in that subsection "missiles" are defined as ballistic missiles or weapons that can be used to deliver WMDs, which of course doesn't apply to the S-300.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:19 pm

    Well If it comes to a point where Iran is launching its Sahab-3 missiles, S-300 althrow defensive weapon would form umbrella under witch Sahab-3 would be safe. I guess west wants to avoid that kind of situation. Iran had ample of opportunity to buy Russian advanced planes/subs/ships but chose not to.


    Pervius

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Pervius on Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:51 pm

    China tried sending Iran a missile defense system but it got intercepted and is now likely being tested/looked at by the US military.


    Poor chinese....now they've got to change a whole lot of hardware that's been undermined. Russia also likely expects something similar would happen.

    US/Israel would get the S-300 system and find out how it ticks.

    So if I was a smart Russian strategist.....I'd put together something that LOOKS LIKE the S-300....put some junk electronics in it that barely work.....and send it on to Iran via boat.

    US intercepts it...thinks it's the real deal...and spends countless hours and people looking at it to find weaknesses and limitations.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:53 pm

    Russia can ship S-300 over Caspian sea.

    China just let go Iran oil bussines over US pressure. So I guess no Russia no China is immune to US/west pressure
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:57 am

    Well If it comes to a point where Iran is launching its Sahab-3 missiles, S-300 althrow defensive weapon would form umbrella under witch Sahab-3 would be safe. I guess west wants to avoid that kind of situation. Iran had ample of opportunity to buy Russian advanced planes/subs/ships but chose not to.

    Hahahahahahahaha... that is certainly Americas argument... and it should be Russias argument to halt US ABM systems in Europe...

    ie on paper an ABM system is a defensive system, but an aggressor... and there is plenty of historic evidence to show the US is a much greater aggressor than Iran ever was... could use such a defensive system to make an attack more effective and to hide behind to avoid any retaliation.

    The Chinese promised an S-300 equivalent and the Iranians said they could make their own equivalent, but the S-300 is a formidable system.


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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Pervius on Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:08 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]


    The Chinese promised an S-300 equivalent


    The quickest thing to ever be scrubbed from the internet was "Chinese Radar Truck spotted in New Mexico".

    ha ha ha. Then shortly later submarine launches missile 30 miles off California coast...Pentagon says it wasn't theirs. Chinese were mad.

    Chinese S-300.....no more threat to anyone.

    After everything was scrubbed from internet there is now a "Japanese radar truck in New Mexico" video on youtube....lol.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:07 pm

    a reminder from the past:

    Russia Denies Paying Fine on Iran Missile Contract

    MOSCOW, January 20 (RIA Novosti)
    Tags: S-300, Dmitry Medvedev, Ahmad Vahidi, Sergei Chemezov, Tehran, Iran, Moscow, Russia




    Russia has returned a prepayment it received for S-300 surface-to-air missile systems it ultimately refused to deliver to Iran but has paid no penalty, Russian Technologies chief Sergei Chemezov said on Friday.

    “The prepayment to the manufacturer was returned to the Iranians because the delivery was not made in accordance with a UN Security Council resolution,” he said.

    Iran’s Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi said in October Tehran was seeking compensation in international arbitration for breach of the $800 million contract.

    Iran complained to the International Court of Arbitration over Russia's refusal to implement the contract.

    In June 2010, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 1929, imposing restrictions on the supply of conventional weapons to Iran, including missiles and missile systems , tanks, attack helicopters, warplanes and ships.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev banned the transfer of S-300 missiles, armored vehicles, combat aircraft, helicopters and ships to Iran on September 22, 2010.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120120/170867782.html
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:04 am

    I wonder if the US and West keeps up its stupid antics in the region whether Putin will lift that ban of Medvedevs.

    Russia got very little credit for helping the west on that one and the result is instability and the potential for chaos.

    Of course if Iran had S-300s now the West would not be trying to block their oil exports.

    The sad thing is that the last time the US tried to blockade a country like this (oil is Irans main source of international income) well the result is fairly infamous. The country they put sanctions on the last time was Japan and the result was an attack on a place called Pearl Harbour.

    Wonder how they will overreact this time to the inevidible backlash.
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    SOC

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SOC on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:I wonder if the US and West keeps up its stupid antics in the region whether Putin will lift that ban of Medvedevs.

    They should at the very least lift the ban on the S-300, because that one was always legal within UNSCR 1929. 1929 prohibits the sale of weapons listed in the UN Register of Conventional Arms...which explicitly excludes SAM systems that are not MANPADS. Ergo, an S-300 sale would've always been legal.

    GarryB wrote:The sad thing is that the last time the US tried to blockade a country like this (oil is Irans main source of international income) well the result is fairly infamous. The country they put sanctions on the last time was Japan and the result was an attack on a place called Pearl Harbour.

    Wonder how they will overreact this time to the inevidible backlash.

    What. We stopped selling oil to Japan as a result of their continued expansion in the Pacific (i.e. invading Manchuria, etc.). Yamamoto's first plan for Pearl Harbor was presented in January of 1941, and he'd directed planning and intel gathering to start as far back as early 1940. The embargo of US oil sales to Japan (they got around 75-80% of their oil from us) was in August of 1941. Attacking Pearl Harbor was always seen by Japan as necessary to stem US involvement in WESTPAC, involvement which would threaten their expansion and influence. Saying that Pearl Harbor was a direct result of the 1941 oil embargo really isn't historically accurate.

    Austin

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:38 am

    I always wondered how a ban on defence system like S-300 would aid Iran in any way or improve its expensive potential. Seems like it was Medvedev personal idea to please the west and israel or may be even some quid pro quo with Israel to get UAV in return for not selling S-300.

    Iran AD would have been better served had they opted for lic production of SA-17 and Igla-M sam , a large number of this sam would have give any modern fighter/cruise missile a good challange.

    I really like the Chinese idea of developing their AD ,purchase top AD system from Russia and lic manufacture in numbers and if possible even reverse engineer it or adapt it to their platform and newer systems.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:45 am

    I really like the Chinese idea of developing their AD ,purchase top AD system from Russia and lic manufacture in numbers and if possible even reverse engineer it or adapt it to their platform and newer systems.

    Except the reverse engineer factor means Russia is unlikely to sell its best system to China because it knows in a few years it will be competing against a clone.

    I agree though that Irans best plan of action would have been to get licence production on Iglas and produce them in very large numbers...

    The west is afraid of MANPADS now and so Iran could use possession of large amounts of such weapons as leverage... especially in Afghanistan.

    The ideal missile for them right now would be Pantsir-S1 as it can engage targets up to about 15km and also down low, and is mobile enough to be a very difficult target.

    The threat of foreign interference of their AD network as was purpetrated on Syria, means that large numbers of Pantsir-S1 with some connected to the network and benefitting from a much wider view of the air state, but also with a large number of platforms off the network operating on their own in loose teams just listening for threats and using passive systems not controlled by the AD network would make a lot of sense.

    Of course at the end of the day Iran can't hope to actually win a conflict with the US/Israel, but it can get a kind of win if it can inflict enough damage to the US that it has to backtrack.

    One thing they could do is buy all those 650mm torpedos that use HTP propellent and develop moored launchers for them and site them on their coastline.

    Any rubbish from the US or Israel and they can fire a few 100km range wake homing torpedoes to stir them up... if the US et al block Irans ability to sell crude oil then Iran wont lose anything directly from closing off the straights... and any vessels they might hit and sink can be blamed on US sanctions.

    In fact in the narrow sections of the straights where it is only a few kilometres across they can use their Shkval-M torpedoes...
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    medo

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:53 am

    Iran AD would have been better served had they opted for lic production of SA-17 and Igla-M sam , a large number of this sam would have give any modern fighter/cruise missile a good challange.

    Iran actually do this. They produce very modified HAWK system, which is comparable by range, but for sure on the level of older Buk and they also produce Chinese equivalent of Igla. They also produce at home Chinese version of Crotale and Rapier. Iran actually produce quite a lot of components for IADS and import some like Nebo-SVU radar, Tor-M1, Autobaza ELINT system, Chinese radars and there were also rumors Iran bought Kolchuga ELINT system from Ukraine.

    Iranian AD is not as week as it was 10 years ago.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:23 pm

    Iranian AD is not as week as it was 10 years ago.

    Good.

    It is frustrating seeing the west picking on them... especially considering the history there.

    Iran is the bad guy but I don't remember Iran installing a dictator in any western countries like the US did to them.

    And America claims to carry the torch for democracy...
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    Viktor

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    iran s-300 missile deal

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The threat of foreign interference of their AD network as was purpetrated on Syria, means that large numbers of Pantsir-S1 with some connected to the network and benefitting from a much wider view of the air state, but also with a large number of platforms off the network operating on their own in loose teams just listening for threats and using passive systems not controlled by the AD network would make a lot of sense.

    Iran several years ago bought Ukranian Kolchuga pasive detection system.
    http://www.rense.com/general73/detect.htm
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Fri May 31, 2013 12:40 pm

    I think Russia should deliver S-300 to Iran and eventually will.

    Iran will very soon need approximately 100 new fighters too.



    Russia Seeks Amicable Settlement in Iran S-300 Lawsuit


    AMMAN, May 31 (RIA Novosti) – Moscow is trying to persuade Tehran to withdraw its lawsuit against Russia’s state-run arms export company Rosoboronexport over a cancelled deal to supply S-300 air defense systems to Iran, Russian Technologies (Rostech) CEO Sergei Chemezov said.

    Iran’s Defense Ministry and The Aerospace Industries Organization have launched a $4 bln lawsuit against Rosoboronexport in an international arbitration court in Geneva in April 2011.



    “The lawsuit is being considered by an arbitration court in Geneva and, unfortunately, our chances to win the case are very slim,” Chemezov told RIA Novosti at the opening ceremony of a Russian grenade-launcher assembly facility in Jordan on Thursday.
    “We are trying to agree an amicable settlement with Iran, but no progress has been made so far,” he said.
    According to Iranian officials, Tehran will withdraw its lawsuit only if Russia fulfills the original contract.
    The $800-million contract to supply Iran with the missile system was signed at the end of 2007. Moscow was to supply five S-300PMU-1 battalions to Tehran.



    However, on September 22, 2010, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed a decree cancelling the contract in line with UN Security Council Resolution 1929, which bans supply to Iran of conventional weapons including missiles and missile systems, tanks, attack helicopters, warplanes and ships.
    Tehran has insisted that the S-300 surface-to-air missile systems do not fall under the UN sanctions as they are considered defensive weapons.



    Chemezov criticized on Thursday the United States for the lack of support in the case.
    He said Washington applied heavy pressure on Moscow to stop the deal but later changed its rhetoric saying the UN resolution did not mention specifically the S-300, known in the West as SA-10 Grumble, and Russia acted on its own.
    “The Americans now agree that it is a defensive system and Russia alone should be responsible for the breach of the contract,” Chemezov said.



    LINK
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    TR1

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm

    "“The lawsuit is being considered by an arbitration court in Geneva and, unfortunately, our chances to win the case are very slim,” Chemezov told RIA Novosti at the opening ceremony of a Russian grenade-launcher assembly facility in Jordan on Thursday."

    Uh, what?
    Deal was cancelled, who is going to fine Russia for it?
    Iran needs to publicly shut up and stop pissing of one of its few suppliers.

    4 billion for an 800 million deal LOL!
    Why is Russia even entertaining such a stupid case...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:19 pm

    Personally I would like to see Russia simply say they made a mistake... the sale of S-300 to Iran is not illegal and we will be sending them shortly...

    Even the US government admits there is no legal reason for Russian not to provide the missiles...


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    SOC

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:Personally I would like to see Russia simply say they made a mistake... the sale of S-300 to Iran is not illegal and we will be sending them shortly...

    Even the US government admits there is no legal reason for Russian not to provide the missiles...

    Exactly. Pretty sure UNSCR 1929 employs the UN Arms Control Register to delineate what can't be sold...and heavy air defense systems like the S-300 are not counted under the register.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:47 pm

    The US government has come out and said S-300 sales would not be effected by UNSC resolutions and lets face it... they would say black is white if it suited them...


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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:The US government has come out and said S-300 sales would not be effected by UNSC resolutions and lets face it... they would say black is white if it suited them...

    The fact that US now is stating that Russia is responsible for the failed sale, that they now owe Iran money. Of course they will say that Black is white if it suites them. This is an in your face to Russia and Russia fell for it.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The US government has come out and said S-300 sales would not be effected by UNSC resolutions and lets face it... they would say black is white if it suited them...

    The fact that US now is stating that Russia is responsible for the failed sale, that they now owe Iran money. Of course they will say that Black is white if it suites them. This is an in your face to Russia and Russia fell for it.

    Well, Russia should made the delivery with one S-300 battery free of charge Very Happy and settle that problem once and for all.

    Anyway, Iran will need new planes and new nuclear power plants and other so Russia can jump in.

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