Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Su-35S: News

    Share
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1229
    Points : 1386
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:58 am

    IDK if this has been discussed before, but can someone explain to me the science behind not equipping the Su-35 with canards, and vice versa for the Su-30? Does TVC compensate for the lack of canards. Once the eurocanards get TVC, will that make them the most agile 4++ gen fighters?
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:11 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:IDK if this has been discussed before, but can someone explain to me the science behind not equipping the Su-35 with canards, and vice versa for the Su-30? Does TVC compensate for the lack of canards. Once the eurocanards get TVC, will that make them the most agile 4++ gen fighters?


    I was look this before I saw your question ^^

    Look at 15min 45s



    Eurocanards won't get them, not planned. Su-37 has both.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16865
    Points : 17473
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:50 pm

    IDK if this has been discussed before, but can someone explain to me the science behind not equipping the Su-35 with canards, and vice versa for the Su-30?

    Su-30 got them because India wanted them.

    The development of thrust vectoring engines and the improvements in the flight control system meant the Su-35 does not need the Canards.

    The eurocanards need canards because a plane is lifted by its main wing so it needs either another set of surfaces... either tail or canard surfaces to push the tail down or lift it up respectively for takeoff, or it needs a long runway and lots more speed to take off and land like a pure delta like a Mirage 2000.

    Canards are on paper superior because instead of pushing the tail down for takeoff it lifts the nose and also points the nose to where you want to go instead of pushing the tail in the opposite way.

    A canard for the Su-35 would add weight and complication and drag and with full TVC it does not increase manouverability enough to matter.

    They can also effect the pilots view of things around the aircraft too... more so with the big ones on the eurocanards.

    Does TVC compensate for the lack of canards. Once the eurocanards get TVC, will that make them the most agile 4++ gen fighters?

    TVC makes all conventional control surfaces less effective in comparison.

    The thing is however that both the Typhoon, Rafale, and Gripen have both engines close together or just have one engine. This means they can push the tail up or down or to either side, but in the case of the twin engined models using one engine up and one down will not roll as fast as with a MiG-35 or Su-35 or PAK FA as the Russian aircraft have widely separated engine nozzles so one up and one down results in a very rapid roll rate instantly.

    If you leave controlled flight your ability to control where your nose points is dictated by what angles you can point your engines... conventional control surfaces become useless... only engine thrust vectoring has any effect and the Eurocanards would be at a huge disadvantage... so they would need to maintain conventional flight... in comparison an Su-35 can leave conventional flight and point its nose (and all its sensors and weapons) directly at a target.

    Even with super high off boresight weapons pointing your missiles at the target before you launch them means they fly faster and get there quicker and are more likely to make a hit.

    In comparison a missile pulling a high g turn off the rail to hit a target behind the launch aircraft will burn most of its energy turning and might even be subsonic when it goes in for the kill... and a missile is not an aircraft... its control surfaces are tiny and it needs high flight speed to remain in the air. Slow speed means poor turn rate and no ability to catch up on targets...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:27 am

    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2716
    Points : 2754
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  franco on Wed May 31, 2017 4:05 am

    New cutting edge technology Russian fighter to enter service this year... who know dunno

    http://tass.com/defense/948527
    avatar
    JohninMK

    Posts : 5230
    Points : 5293
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:39 am

    Russia will modernize its Su-35S fighter jets with due account for their performance in the ongoing operation in Syria, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said. Aviation expert Viktor Pryadka told Sputnik what remains to be done to make the Su-35S “perfect for export.”

    “We might even hold up its state trials until we are sure that all the defects have been fixed,” Borisov said during a visit to the Gagarin Aviation Plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

    He said that during the early stages of their use in Syria, the planes used to suck in small pebbles and small debris from the runway during takeoff, and also had problems with the searchlight and computer screens, all of which have since been addressed and rectified.


    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201706111054527873-russia-plane-upgrade/
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1562
    Points : 1562
    Join date : 2016-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:05 am

    Sputnik is usually garbage.

    I don't think there are anymore defects but they are clearly hinting at major upgrades to it that they may be looking at to upgrade existing and future order Su-35. Makes sense since real world tests showed possibilities of improvement. But then again the Su-35 is supposed to be a air superiority jet and not intended to be a Su-30. So they may be trying too hard to be like US and have a everything jet. Which isn't good.

    We will see.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:11 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Sputnik is usually garbage.

    I don't think there are anymore defects but they are clearly hinting at major upgrades to it that they may be looking at to upgrade existing and future order Su-35. Makes sense since real world tests showed possibilities of improvement. But then again the Su-35 is supposed to be a air superiority jet and not intended to be a Su-30. So they may be trying too hard to be like US and have a everything jet. Which isn't good.

    We will see.

    Its de facto a multirole jet since it can carries every missiles that russia produce and targeting pods. With the powers of modern computers any upgrade of old bird would make them multirole. Every new fighter will have air to ground capabilities. The only point where it is not well suited for multi role is that it's a single seat. For dangerous missions it's better to have a pilot looking for air threats and a second guy doing the job.

    I don't think they found improvement possibilities but errors that occures when the jet are used more often than in training. Unless they use Pak Fa technologes for a big upgrade, I don't think they will upgrade them. Moreover if the Pak Fa isn't too expensive they will stiop buying Su-35, same with Mig-35 if the new Mig 5 gen fighter is cheap enough to buy it instead of the 35.

    The issue of the engines is not a real issue. Engine need air to go in them, if the airfield runway isn't clean it will suck dust and other objects, it's the same with every aircraft.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16865
    Points : 17473
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:49 pm

    Old computer chips were so slow you pretty much made dedicated electronics for a specific role.

    A good example is a calculator... very slow electronics but for what it does it is generally as fast as you would need.

    The problem is that it is only good for what it was designed for and upgrades are neither possible or necessary.

    With more modern computer components you occasionally upgrade parts but most of the new capabilities is adding new sensors at the end... ie plug and play addons like new printers and scanners or USB sticks etc for a computer... new guidance pods or jammer pods, or tactical recon pods etc etc for aircraft.

    Generally you don't add new hardware now, you just add new drivers for the new hardware and adapt existing software to allow effective use of new hardware.

    Multirole capability is just a software update away for a modern fighter.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:56 am

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-the-war-syria-will-make-russias-su-35-even-more-lethal-21019

    Another ting to "modernize" is the lack of targeting pod on su-35. Does it really can't carry them ? What Russia has to offer as modern targeting pods ? WWhat about Su-30 and 34 ?
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1562
    Points : 1562
    Join date : 2016-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:03 am

    Seriously, for the love of god you idiots, stop using national interest. Fuck.

    Anyway, Su-34 has a built in optical system. Su-30 can use its IRST for ground strikes and same with Su-35. Next to its radar as well. There have been various targeting pods from Russia to show, the newest one is the one used for PAK FA.

    Now stop using national interest. It is a US publication used for bullshitting horrendously. You guys using it flood this already degraded forums with such nonsense.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:14 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Seriously, for the love of god you idiots, stop using national interest.  Fuck.

    Anyway, Su-34 has a built in optical system.  Su-30 can use its IRST for ground strikes and same with Su-35.  Next to its radar as well.  There have been various targeting pods from Russia to show, the newest one is the one used for PAK FA.

    Now stop using national interest.  It is a US publication used for bullshitting horrendously.  You guys using it flood this already degraded forums with such nonsense.

    It's quoting a guy named Kashin it's not just Dave's opinion Laughing
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1562
    Points : 1562
    Join date : 2016-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:34 am

    It doesn't matter. it is all the same funding if you catch my drift. In other words, US propaganda if you are not aware.

    As I said, Platan has a thermal/TV imaging component. This has been proven for long time now.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3245
    Points : 3331
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  medo on Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:17 am





    Interesting photos of Su-35 with twin launchers for R-77-1 on pylons between engines and with new targeting pod under the right engine. It also have mock up Kh-35U anti-ship missile under the wing.
    avatar
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1729
    Points : 1886
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:52 am

    Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Su-35 display at MAKS-2017

    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 965
    Points : 963
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:25 am

    medo wrote:

    Interesting photos of Su-35 with twin launchers for R-77-1 on pylons between engines and with new targeting pod under the right engine. It also have mock up Kh-35U anti-ship missile under the wing.

    That's exactly what I suggested for Mig-35. Maybe they are following our ideas in sukhoi Shocked Shocked I want my money for my idea bounce

    Su-35 display at MAKS-2017

    Still a fake for me. There are hundreds of people and amateurs who film at Maks the presentation, can you found a video of this but where you see the public and not just the plane. Specially for the part at 2:01 where it goes from 0km/h to a high speed while climbing ? If it's true then they don't need runway for take-off.

    zeus2

    Posts : 1
    Points : 1
    Join date : 2015-08-29

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  zeus2 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:15 am

    Su-35 display at MAKS-2017

    Still a fake for me. There are hundreds of people and amateurs who film at Maks the presentation, can you found a video of this but where you see the public and not just the plane. Specially for the part at 2:01 where it goes from 0km/h to a high speed while climbing ? If it's true then they don't need runway for take-off.

    A longer video of the one posted above with the ground and houses visible at the beginning. Apparently it was a rehearsal flight.  There are other videos with other planes (pakfa included) taken from the same place, also doing rehearsals i'm guessing.

    avatar
    Benya

    Posts : 528
    Points : 532
    Join date : 2016-06-06
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Benya on Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:58 pm

    Some info about this new targeting pod


    Suspended container of target designation T220 on the Su-35S fighter

    At the ground-based exposition at the Zhukovsky International Aviation and Space Salon MAKS-2017, the Su-35S Combat Fighter (registration number "24 red", registration number RF-95816) was demonstrated at the ground-level exposition, which was equipped with a rich set of pendant missile guided weapons, Container of target designation T220 (before that the given board with the onboard number "24 red" "lit up" in flights on the eve of the air show, with suspension of model controlled missiles X-35U and X-38M class "air-surface"). Container T220, developed by JSC "Scientific and Production Corporation" Precision Instrument-Making Systems "(JSC NPK SPP, Moscow), is demonstrated for the first time on a Su-35S fighter.


    The Su-35S fighter (registration number "24 red", registration number RF-95816, serial number 02620) of the Russian VCS equipped with a targeting target container T220 developed by JSC "Scientific Production Corporation" Precision Instrumentation Systems "(right) in the MAKS- 2017. Zhukovsky, July 2017 (with) VKontakte


    Also on this Su-35S fighter with the number "24 red" (who took part in the fighting in Syria) the MAX-2017 for the first time publicly demonstrated the ventilated two-beam launcher of the RVV-SD medium-range air-to-air missiles.


    The Su-35S fighter (registration number "24 red", registration number RF-95816, serial number 02620 ) of the Russian VCS equipped with a targeting target container T220 developed by JSC "Scientific Production Corporation" Precision Instrumentation Systems "(right) in the MAKS- 2017. A ventral double-girder launcher for guided RVV-SD medium-range air-to-air missiles is clearly visible. Zhukovsky, July 2017 (with) VKontakte


    Source: Arrow https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A//bmpd.livejournal.com/2743524.html
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1562
    Points : 1562
    Join date : 2016-11-07

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:08 pm

    The targeting pods electronics are the same ones used on the MiG-35 electronic optical systems we have all seen flown.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3245
    Points : 3331
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  medo on Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:21 pm

    I think they will all use the same targeting pod. I hope they will be soon delivered to operational units and that Su-30SM in Syria will be the first to receive them together with new ECM pods. Su-35 in Syria should be next to receive targeting pods.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16865
    Points : 17473
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:28 pm

    Still a fake for me. There are hundreds of people and amateurs who film at Maks the presentation, can you found a video of this but where you see the public and not just the plane. Specially for the part at 2:01 where it goes from 0km/h to a high speed while climbing ? If it's true then they don't need runway for take-off.

    Have you seen some of the MiG-29OVT videos...

    This is an Su-35 with no external weapons, so no drag, and likely with enough fuel for the flight so 20% fuel or less in its fuel tanks... its thrust to weight ratio will be 1.5 or better... of course it flys well.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    iwanz

    Posts : 7
    Points : 15
    Join date : 2017-08-22

    the Sukhoi Jet Fighters in Any Pugachev's Cobra Maneuvers

    Post  iwanz on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:54 am

    avatar
    OminousSpudd

    Posts : 901
    Points : 918
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Age : 22
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:21 pm

    The Pugachev's Cobra or any other high energy-bleed maneuvers demonstrated at airshows are not a direct implementation of an aircraft's capabilities in a combat situation, but rather a demonstration of the aircraft's potential in a combat situation. What maneuvers such as the Cobra (and that recent Su-35S performance at MAKS) demonstrate is the stability of the aircraft at low speeds, the ability to bring a target aircraft within its conical of "vision" so as to make full use of its high off-bore engagement capabilities at low speeds, through high (yet very stable) AoA maneuvers (and waste less energy of a R/K-74 leaving the rail in a potential low-high speed scenario, where the Flanker pilot has been caught with his pants down), the ability to counter an enemy launch by rapidly changing the direction of the aircraft (much less dramatic and more applicable in the high-speed spectrum, but still more capable thanks to the Su-35's TVC), and finally, if absolutely necessary and hardly likely to ever be used, the ability to bleed all the aircraft's energy almost instantaneously when flying at a relatively low-speed.

    So, while you'll likely never see a Pugachev Cobra in a knife-fight, what the Flanker-E can do is use its excellent handling to get the upper hand in both high and low speed spectrum engagements, particularly in a WVR engagement, but also when dodging AMRAAMs or other such BVR launches it is likely to face, given it hasn't already brushed them aside with its capable EW suite. Essentially, it is about making maximum use of the aircraft's energy bank, which is of the utmost importance in a fight. Even when both the Flanker and the aggressor aircraft have run out of energy, the Flanker is still going to have the upper hand.

    EDIT: Just realized you were not addressing the Su-35 specifically... the same essentially goes for the Su-30s, MiG-35, while the Su-57 will represent the pinnacle of this design doctrine.

    iwanz

    Posts : 7
    Points : 15
    Join date : 2017-08-22

    Thank you

    Post  iwanz on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:49 pm

    Thank you very much for your information, as i did not know much about it. it is now enrich me something new about Pugachev's russia
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10764
    Points : 11243
    Join date : 2011-12-23
    Location : Greece

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:39 am

    iwanz wrote:Thank you very much for your information, as i did  not know much about it. it is now enrich me something new about Pugachev's russia

    introduce yourself pls
    http://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Sponsored content

    Re: Su-35S: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:00 am