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    Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

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    Russian Patriot

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    Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:46 am

    Russia to lose 'billions' if S-300 missile deal with Iran scrapped

    RIA Novosti

    19:31 21/10/2009 MOSCOW, October 21 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will sustain significant losses if it decides to tear up a contract to deliver S-300 surface-to-air missile systems to Iran, an unnamed defense industry official said on Wednesday.

    "The fulfillment of the contract to deliver S-300 complexes to Iran fully depends on the country's leadership," he said.

    Russian military expert Konstantin Makiyenko previously said the decision not to go ahead with the contract would cost Russia about $1 billion in lost profits plus $300-400 million in fines and penalties.

    The defense industry official stressed that the S-300 systems were defensive weapons.

    "They are not under any embargo, and Russia is free to make its own decision on whether or not to supply them to one country or another," he said.

    Reports about possible deliveries of S-300 missiles to Iran have aroused serious concern in the West and in Israel.

    Iranian media, citing senior security officials, have repeatedly reported that Russia has started delivering elements of the advanced version of the S-300 missile to Tehran under a 2005 contract, but Russian arms industry officials have invariably denied such reports.

    The latest version of the S-300 family is the S-300PMU2 Favorit, which has a range of up to 195 kilometers (about 120 miles) and can intercept aircraft and ballistic missiles at altitudes from 10 meters to 27 kilometers.

    It is considered one of the world's most effective all-altitude regional air defense systems, comparable in performance to the U.S. MIM-104 Patriot system.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/10/mil-091021-rianovosti06.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:55 am

    So what are Iran waiting for ?????
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:02 pm

    Russia will gain mutch more.
    Saudies promised to buy about 10Bin in arms in return and further more invest 50 Bin in economy.
    And whats most beatiful thing ... Iran-Russia economy coorporation must continue despite all cozz all the wester firmes imposed sanctiones on themselves not to trade with Iran. China and India dont have tehnology required.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:19 am

    The Chinese do have a "version" of the S-300 they have created.

    It is based on an earlier model S-300 so it wont be as capable as what Russia can supply however.

    Of course Iran is entitled to nuclear technology for civilian use and most of the problems seem to stem from the fact that the West has screwed the Iranians so often that they want to be able to enrich the nuclear fuel themselves because they don't want a foreign country able to exert pressure on them with embargoes.

    Considering the current situation I think their actions are perfectly understandable.

    The problem is Iran is dealing with children.

    Iran says it is not making nuclear weapons and if it was it wouldn't hide it.

    The West hears "nuclear weapons" and nothing else and says this confirms they want nuclear weapons.

    The west hears what it wants to hear.

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  lulldapull on Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:57 am

    May be Russia is stupid enough to appease the West and Saudi's again after the past twenty years of appeasement hasn't yielded much except Chechen and Dagestani terror.

    May be they should scrap this S-300 contract in the hopes that the West and Israel stops helping arm Sakashvilli's Georgia or may be the CIA/ Mi-6 stop helping arm and train Chechen suicide bombers and training and infiltrating them in the Caucasus with Saudi money. Laughing
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:37 am

    Moscow: S-300s contract with Iran honored


    IRNA - Islamic Republic News Agency

    Moscow, April 8, IRNA -- Head of Russia’s Technical and Military Cooperation Agency announced Wednesday evening Russia honors S-300 contract it has sighed with I. R. of Iran.

    According to IRNA from Moscow, the head of Russia’s Technical and Military Cooperation Michael Dmitriev added at a press conference in Slovakia’s capital city Bratislava, “The S-300s contract with Iran has not been annulled and Russia would honor and implement it.”

    He added, “Negotiations with the Iranian side on implementing the S300s contract are still going on.”

    The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently said at a press conference after a meeting with EU Representative in International and Security Affairs Catherine Stone in Moscow, “Russia will deliver the S300s to Iran in accordance with the contract.”

    Lavrov added, “Heeding its international commitments, Russia will not make any move to threaten the security of any part of the world.”

    Lavrov said, “Russian weapons exports are done keeping in mind that general rule.”

    The Chairman of the Council of the Russian Federation Sergey Mironov, too, said earlier this week that his country would act in accordance with the articles of the contract it has signed with Iran and deliver the S-300 defense missiles to Iran.

    The S-300 is a series of Russian long range surface-to-air missile systems produced by NPO Almaz, all based on the initial S-300P version. The S-300 system was developed to defend against aircraft and cruise missiles for the Soviet Air Defence Forces. Subsequent variations were developed to intercept ballistic missiles.

    The S-300 system was first deployed by the Soviet Union in 1979, designed for the air defense of large industrial and administrative facilities, military bases, and control of airspace against enemy strike aircraft.

    2329**2329

    End News / IRNA / News Code 1042389

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2010/iran-100408-irna05.htm
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    nightcrawler

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:24 am

    My wisdom is GO RUSSIA HELP IRAN

    You are never entitled to be a friend of US or NATO & nor you will be & nor you need to. Iran is a powerful country befriend it & not your foes.
    Saudis are lunatics & are illiterate had they been your friends they would give similar privilege as US interms of oil & airbases

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  lulldapull on Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:13 pm

    I read somewhere on IRNA that Belarus has sold Iran 4 batteries of the S-300 system to Iran last month.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:23 am

    The current reactor is being started up as we speak.

    The Iranians have said they will need at least 20 such reactors to provide all of Iran with stable electricity generation capabilities.

    That is a lot of potential business for Russia at about 6 billion each.

    Most importantly these reactor types are not breeder reactors... they don't result in Plutonium or anything useful for making nuclear weapons being created.
    Having 20 of these reactors will bring Iran no closer to nuclear weapons.

    All this BS from the west however will make it something they might consider however.

    The best way to deal with Iran is to trade and build ties.
    Countries that rely on other countries for their prosperity will not go to war lightly.

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  lulldapull on Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:32 am

    Yeah......true Garry!

    It's amazing that Russia actually honored its obligations in supplying Iran with the S-300's, not to mention after dragging its feet, bitching and moaning for 20 years over the Bushehr reactor.....finally it delivered.

    20 years late and probably 20 billion in accrued LD's, which Iran has not asked them to pay.

    Keep up the good work Russia........may be this Putin ends up losing his last viable, and largely self sufficient ally in the entire ME.....like Putin's predecessors have all the others post the USSR collapse.
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    nightcrawler

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:07 pm

    Abstract from some report I lost the source but you can google it!!

    Mark Fitzpatrick, an expert in non-proliferation at London ’s International Institute for Strategic Studies, said Bushehr is not a proliferation risk “as long as it is run to produce power for electricity generation. ” “It would be a risk if Iran operated it differently, i.e. for short periods at low-burn up in order to produce weapons-usable plutonium — but in this case the IAEA would know,” he said.

    How come the bold part be true
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:11 am

    To be fair Lulldapul the West German company that started building the reactor stopped work completely when the CIA puppet was kicked out of power there.

    Now that they have a reactor building more will be less of a problem.

    Building from scratch is much easier and cheaper and quicker than starting to build something someone already started using a completely different design and technology that you normally use.

    Iran really doesn't have much choice for alternatives in regard to allies that can build nuclear reactors and SAMs like the S-300.

    The delays include delays in payment and genuine problems. With the S-300 it was only ordered in 2005 or so. Any delays will be getting something for the Russian government from the west. I doubt Iran will demand penalties because they will need more S-300s than they have ordered to defend 20 reactors. It might be really annoying to Iran but at the end of the day I really don't think either Israel or the US is dumb enough to attack. US operations in Afghanistan rely on helicopters and Iranian made MANPADS are easily good enough to rip the US a new one if you know what I mean. That means more ground travel and that means IEDs become more effective. Not to mention Iranian made ATGMs based on the TOW series.

    How come the bold part be true

    Is this from the same analysts that said the high quality high precision aluminium tubes Saddam was importing could only be used for centrifuges and that was evidence enough that he had a WMD program?

    Later turns out they were for rocket motors for ballistic missiles of very short range (Like FROG-7) that he was allowed to have.

    Even the person who suggests it could be used to make nuclear warhead material admits they couldn't do it without the IAEA knowing about it... and if the IAEA knew about it and told other people that they were making weapons grade plutonium would the world then wonder whether Iran was making a bomb?
    Would they really be that stupid?
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    nightcrawler

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  nightcrawler on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:21 am

    Is this from the same analysts that said the high quality high precision aluminium tubes Saddam was importing could only be used for centrifuges and that was evidence enough that he had a WMD program?
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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:29 pm

    Since it's an S-300 thread I decided to post my question here, I hope that it's ok, because if it's not tell me if I should open a new thread when I want to ask a question?!

    My question is what is the price of one S-300PMU2 Favorit air def. system (including: 1 0N6E2 multifunctional illumination and guidance radar, 1 96L6E all-altitude phased-array target designation radar and 8 TEL's (4 missiles each))?

    And how good S-300PMU2 Favorit really is against aircraft? (With this question I mean more like do you know some stories by people who operated it, info that are not too bias, I know that it is great against missiles and heard that it is good against aircraft, but never from exp. always heard it by producers reports, wich are always bias )

    And one more question is it really good against jamming, is it really durable in heavy ECM areas? Would it show well against NATO planes that also have ECM planes protecting them and hunting for radars?

    Sorry for complicated questions, I would just like to know these things, so I hope that I'm not putting you through too much trouble.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:17 am

    Missiles are small targets and are much harder than general aircraft.

    It took an average of 32 PAC-2 Patriots fired at each modified scud in desert storm and even then many still landed with their warheads intact.

    Very simply the PAC-2 patriot would try to hit the centre of the target but because the flight speed of the modified scud is comparable to the expansion rate of warhead fragments the Patriots tended to shred the rear of the modified scuds. The warheads in the nose were generally untouched though the missile itself could be blown to a different course the warhead was often intact when the scud hit the ground... the engine might get shredded but it is just dead weight at the last phase of the trajectory.

    The S-300PMU2 has a smart warhead so when it is intercepting a missile it can direct its fragments at the nose of the target whereas with an aircraft intercept it can aim for the boy of the aircraft, particularly at the place where the wing joins the aircraft.

    An advantage of the S-300PMU2 is that with a few modifications you can add S-400 and perhaps in a decade or two S-500 capability too.
    The S-300 series is a very capable system that it seems the US and Israel really don't seem to want Iran to get their hands on.

    Obviously there is no such thing as a perfect system and it would need to be handled well and be supported by other assets so that it is no left exposed to a mass attack.

    S-300PMU2 and Pantsyr would certainly be a good combination but you would need numbers... one or two systems would be too easy to overcome.

    The next generation Vityaz seems to be based on IIR and active radar homing short and medium range missiles. Much more expensive to buy and operate, but mounted on cheap trucks with lots of launch tubes it could be the sort of thing where you could have trailers with box launchers that can be left around the place waiting for a launch signal. If it has an operational ceiling that is about 15km or above then it will be very good for smaller countries resisting external aggression from powers with strong airforces.
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    SerbNationalist

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Missiles are small targets and are much harder than general aircraft.

    Obviously there is no such thing as a perfect system and it would need to be handled well and be supported by other assets so that it is no left exposed to a mass attack.

    S-300PMU2 and Pantsyr would certainly be a good combination but you would need numbers... one or two systems would be too easy to overcome.

    Of course, but what numbers are we talking about? Yugoslavia held against 2000 NATO airplanes alongside ECM airplanes and stealths for 3 months of bombing and only 3% of its military capability was destroyed, only 2% of its AD capability was destroyed and we only had old S-125Neva and Kub systems alongside some old and new radars...and we still downed a number of planes, although our stupid government signed that they won't reveal NATO losses and NATO negated any losses except 2 planes (F-16 and F-117A) that fell on Serbian soil, but every other loss was destroyed and negated, but somehow only US had around 30 non-functioning (???!!!) planes that were in combat over Yugoslavia and since the day we targeted them they seized to function??? And somehow they conducted over 40 rescue missions on our soil?? But still with all that 60-70's technology we repelled them, we wouldn't have won in the end, but they would have had serious losses, of wich even they were afraid to make because it would be a serious show of the weakness of NATO! Anyway, with all that old equipment we downed a number of aircraft although they were in great numbers, coming in wave after wave...so I hope that S-300PMU2 favorit would show a much better results...of course combined with medium range and AAA for protection?!
    I don't know...what is your opinion on this, I would like to know?

    Also if someone can provide me with the info about the cost of one S-300PMU2 Favorit battery (8 TEL's, 1 multifunctional 30N6E2 illumination and guidance radar and 1 96L6E all-altitude phased-array target designation radar ) ?
    Thank you people!
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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:37 pm

    I think price is around 150 milion for S-300PMU2 battery. Small price for such capable system.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  Viktor on Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:43 pm

    Wonder why India did not made any significant buy of S-300 system lately, specially for airbase protection as Pakistan AF suprised them once.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:13 am

    The problem is conflicting requirements.
    A Handheld MANPAD can simply be evaded by flying above its ceiling so despite it being effective it does not do the job on its own.
    A high altitude long range SAM is going to be huge and heavy and hard to hide.
    It is also going to be expensive so you wont have thousands of these.
    Pantsyr has the advantage of being relatively small and very mobile while reaching up to heights that make effective ground attack capability limited.
    As long as most of your assets are mobile and actually moved with skill and discipline then your air defence will be effective.
    The problem remains if you are going against an enemy like Albania I could say that x number of batteries will do the job. If you want to fight all of NATO then there is a problem because they can spend more money that you can afford to.
    The real secret is to do what you did but with more capable higher reaching longer ranged missiles of a newer digital generation.

    The Serbian AD performance against NATO is an example of how to use what you have.
    Even assuming NATO figures are correct you forced them to fight in a way that didn't suit them and as a result they got frustrated and resorted to less discriminate bombing to try to force you to the table.

    I think a combination of better defence and a viable attack option the result could have been rather different.

    Higher performance SAMs together with a theatre range ballistic and or cruise missile capability could have led to NATO not being so cocky.

    It is basically down to needing to shoot down lots of high profile targets (ie F-117 was a good one) and also being able to effectively attack back with something like ISKANDER or perhaps Club that would stop NATO and get them to a table where the things on offer were actually offers rather than demands.

    The problem is that NATO is a bad loser and if you brought down several F-117s and even a B-2 or B-52 or an AWACs or something they just would have started carpet bombing or impose and economic isolation like that imposed on Cuba and North Korea.
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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:31 pm

    I know that NATO is a sore looser, but still they would think twice if we had 6-7 batteries of S-300PMU2 Favorit and 10 batteries (60)Pantsyrs, combined with our Kub that's being upgraded to Buk-M3 standard with less range but same ARH missiles and same radars and upgraded Neva's that will also probably have ARH! And I know that there is no winning against them, but it would give us the bargaining power, and now it wouldn't be as easy for them to attack us as it was in 99' now we do have Russia as an ally and China and India...so this time it wouldn't be so easy! For US yes, but for the rest of Europe no, because there will be a major important gas pipeline here and Gazprom already bought our Gas and Oil company, and it is known that Russia protects its interest, at least for the last 9 years since Yeltsyn stepped down!

    Oh and no one here is even thinking about Albania, we can obliterate them with what we have now, if they weren't protected by the NATO, so no one is fearing their attack, we need to secure ourselves from overwhelming air attacks, that's it!
    But there is a problem, we need a change of government, they are all morons and traitors, they don't work for Serbia and it's people, they work for US or their own pocket...or both, so I don't expect any serious weapon procurements here before we drastically change something, because here even the oposition is false and is western controlled, so even they will do no good, they are all just false nationalists and patriots!
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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:49 pm

    Oh and by the way, Garry you mentioned it and I know it's off topic but I have to ask, what is the price of one Iskander launcher and how potent it really is???
    And if I'm not mistaken it can take a nuclear warhead, right?
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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:46 pm

    I think there were a lot of red faces already within NATO about how Serbia defended itself... I remember Madeline Allbright claiming it would be 3-4 days before Serbia jumped into line. Hahahaha... B!tch.

    I think you certainly gained the respect of those actually doing the fighting, but politicians are politicians and they are the problem.

    The problem for you unfortunately is the same problem Georgia has... distance to allies and proximity to enemies (perceived or otherwise).
    (What I mean there is that I really don't think Russia is Georgias enemy... Georgian politicians have made Russia the bad guy to explain why nothing is working and they don't have the democratic paradise they were promised when communism ended. Equally there are countries in Europe that could probably sympathise with Serbia... the breakup of Yugoslavia was messy and Serbia was the scapegoat.)
    The reality is that because of your distance from Russia there is little in practical terms they can really do to help you in times of problems.

    Some SAMs would be nice but NATO and the EU could simply blockade Serbia and isolate it and turn it into the Albania of the 21st century.
    Personally I think your best bet is to smile and pretend you have forgotten all that crap you had to deal with and try to make Serbia the best place to live in the region.
    Don't accept the independance of Kosovo, no matter what is offered or is promised... making promises is very easy for the west but if you have nothing on paper then you have nothing.
    When Kosovo comes up keep stating how you feel and what you expect and accept nothing less.
    Remember who your friends are and trade and deal with them and work with them to improve your situation bit by bit.
    Buying SAMs will not help the Serbian people.
    The problem is politicians on all sides.

    It certainly can take a nuclear warhead, its role is to replace the Scud in the theatre strike role, though its accuracy means that it would carry a conventional warhead normally rather than a nuclear warhead.

    CEP or circular error probable is given as 20m with an active radar homing head and less than half that with an optical homing warhead. (CEP is a measure of accuracy where the figure given is the radius of a circle where 50% of impacts will occur within. 4 times that size radius gives the circle size where 99% of impacts will occur statistically speaking, so draw a circle with a radius of 20m around the aim point and 50% of missiles launched will land within that circle for the radar homing version.) With a cluster munition warhead with anti vehicle bomblets you can take out a lot of vehicles in a vehicle park with one Rocket.

    The Iskander itself manoeuvres in flight and does not follow a predictable ballistic path and would be a very difficult target to intercept because of its speed.

    I am not sure of the price but a battery can be fitted with Iskander missiles or club cruise missiles depending on the targets defences.
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    SerbNationalist

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:I think there were a lot of red faces already within NATO about how Serbia defended itself... I remember Madeline Allbright claiming it would be 3-4 days before Serbia jumped into line. Hahahaha... B!tch.

    I think you certainly gained the respect of those actually doing the fighting, but politicians are politicians and they are the problem.

    The problem for you unfortunately is the same problem Georgia has... distance to allies and proximity to enemies (perceived or otherwise).
    (What I mean there is that I really don't think Russia is Georgias enemy... Georgian politicians have made Russia the bad guy to explain why nothing is working and they don't have the democratic paradise they were promised when communism ended. Equally there are countries in Europe that could probably sympathise with Serbia... the breakup of Yugoslavia was messy and Serbia was the scapegoat.)
    The reality is that because of your distance from Russia there is little in practical terms they can really do to help you in times of problems.

    Some SAMs would be nice but NATO and the EU could simply blockade Serbia and isolate it and turn it into the Albania of the 21st century.
    Personally I think your best bet is to smile and pretend you have forgotten all that crap you had to deal with and try to make Serbia the best place to live in the region.
    Don't accept the independance of Kosovo, no matter what is offered or is promised... making promises is very easy for the west but if you have nothing on paper then you have nothing.
    When Kosovo comes up keep stating how you feel and what you expect and accept nothing less.
    Remember who your friends are and trade and deal with them and work with them to improve your situation bit by bit.
    Buying SAMs will not help the Serbian people.
    The problem is politicians on all sides.
    I agree with you, and our goal is to overthrow these politicians and make it the best possible place to live in, but if you let's say make it that, others will won't it, they won't it now and it's not the best possible place to live in, so what will you need? Defense! And our only weak point is Air, the money needed for the number of planes that would make us a nasty opponent is many times bigger than the number of SAM's that would make us a nasty opponent! And no wars, not soon at least, I personally would just import SAM's and some Tanks from Russia and give the explanation of Defense need, wich it would be, Serbia won't be able to be an aggressor for a while, everyone knows that, but we should do everything in our power to make what we have left virually unconquerable without great and significant losses even for NATO! Plus a Russian base in our country would benefit us a lot, wich any patriotic government would have done at least 4 years ago, so that some Russian Tu-95's or at least a nice force of strike aircraft and figters be a nice message to anyone! We and Russia are natural allies, we have been that throughout the known history, why not again, of course all within the limits of mutual interests, it is doable!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:38 am

    Unfortunately your geography is against you.
    To get to Serbia you need overflight permission from at least one other country and that is just a pain in the backside.
    If you had a port then it would be perfect but you are cut off from the sea... it saves you the cost of a Navy, but it also cuts you off from direct help too.
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    SerbNationalist

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    Re: Russia-Iran S-300 missile systems deal

    Post  SerbNationalist on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Unfortunately your geography is against you.
    To get to Serbia you need overflight permission from at least one other country and that is just a pain in the backside.
    If you had a port then it would be perfect but you are cut off from the sea... it saves you the cost of a Navy, but it also cuts you off from direct help too.

    Well we could fly it over Bulgaria easily, they would cooperate with us and Russia, silently! Or we can get it via Adriatic Sea, to Montenegro, we control their biggest port anyway, and even if we don't we can manipulate there, their separatist leader will not be able to stop that!

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