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    Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

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    Hole

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Hole on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:32 pm

    Supposedly the new battle management system of the 20380 class.



    hoom

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:14 am

    Look at size or Ka-27 vs container. It looms both are 40 food ones
    The containers in that pic are 20 foot.
    This is with the 40 foot Kalibr container (& 20 foot control container)


    A while back I read something dismissing 20386 along the lines 'if it can only take 1* 40 foot Kalibr container & its at the expense of the Ka-27, you might as well just strap a 40 foot container to the flight deck of a 20380' and its fairly hard not to agree IMO.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:45 am

    hoom wrote:.......
    A while back I read something dismissing 20386 along the lines 'if it can only take 1* 40 foot Kalibr container & its at the expense of the Ka-27, you might as well just strap a 40 foot container to the flight deck of a 20380' and its fairly hard not to agree IMO.

    People need to accept the fact that ships below certain size and pricetag can't do everything

    This is one of those ships

    Everyone has complaints but nobody is looking at intended purpose of those ships

    Also, putting container on deck of 20380 is excellent way to capsize it

    hoom

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:23 am

    Ka-27 weighs how much? Suspect (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)

    20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:57 pm

    They could always put Ka-226s on board.... there would be plenty of space for a few pods and two Ka-226s... with their main rotors folded they are rather small... and with two you could have combinations.... one helo with a radar and a pod with a dipping sonar and another helo with anti sub torpedoes and depth charges to attack any sub detected...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:07 pm

    hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? Suspect (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)

    20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.

    Old radars, old AA missiles, old sonar, no anti-ship missiles in UKSK and glows on radar like a Christmas tree

    Time marches on...
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Hole on Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:45 pm

    Which class do you mean?
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:02 pm

    hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? Suspect (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)

    20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.

    KA-27's weigh about 7 tons.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Hole on Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:46 pm

    MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  kumbor on Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    hoom wrote:Ka-27 weighs how much? Suspect (with a Kalibr container on the flight-deck you wouldn't have the Ka-27 in the hangar)

    20386 is not a small ship, its about the same size & price as 11356 which simultaneously carries 8* Kalibr, Ka-27 & 50% more SAMs.

    KA-27's weigh about 7 tons.

    11356 in comparison to 20386 is almost 50% bigger!
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:34 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    People need to accept the fact that ships below certain size and pricetag can't do everything
    This is one of those ships
    Everyone has complaints but nobody is looking at intended purpose of those ships

    OK thsi is universal ship so what kind roles can she perform?



    Also, putting container on deck of 20380 is excellent way to capsize it
    you dont need really put any container there to capsize her lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:55 am

    Hole wrote:Which class do you mean?

    11356

    They are okay and ones that are under construction should not be sold to India, instead they should wait until engines are sorted out, complete them and send them in service

    But for new orders they should focus strictly on new models (whichever is on roster) and 11356 is not new

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:07 am

    MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.
    Exactly and the heaviest Kalibr is 2300kg -> a container with 4 is about the same weight -> no stability issue from swapping one for the other.
    Point is for a large displacement & cost increase vs 20380 the containerised Kalibr of 20386 comes at the heavy cost of losing the helicopter to carry them which is replicatable in 20380 without the extra cost.

    11356 in comparison to 20386 is almost 50% bigger!
    20386 is said to be 3400ton full load vs 3800ton for 11356, they're very much comparable in size so it shouldn't be a huge ask to have similar capability in a newer ship with smaller SAMs.

    Old radars, old AA missiles, old sonar, no anti-ship missiles in UKSK and glows on radar like a Christmas tree
    Old radar, new processors & combat system, new SAMs, can't comment on the sonar, at least anti-ship Kalibr (there are both the subsonic long range & supersonic sizzler versions), its not proven that it can't fire Onyx since the Indian ones fire Brahmos & I don't believe its horrendously un-stealthy or that stealth is especially applicable to surface ships.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:22 pm

    Hole wrote:MTOW of Ka-27 is 11.000 kg.

    they do not weigh that low, maybe the police and utility versions but the military ones weigh roughly the weight I said.

    Which is you go by that weight system is like 14k-15k lbs.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:11 am

    MTOW of the Ka-27 in the SAR role is indeed 11 tons, but the Ka-28 anti sub model is 12 tons MTOW, while the AEW radar Ka-31 now called Ka-35 is MTOW of 12.5 tons...

    Note the anti sub Ka-28 has a payload capacity of 800kgs... which is normally a torpedo or depth charges...
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Hole on Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 pm

    New one.



    kumbor

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  kumbor on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:45 pm

    Hole wrote:New one.



    Difficult to read out. Проворный?
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    George1

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:33 pm

    This is Gromkiy from Amur Shipyard
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:30 pm

    https://www.cna.org/CNA_files/PDF/IOP-2018-U-018268-Final.pdf wrote:It has been repeatedly pointed out that the shipbuilding programs are missing a small ship, which could be described as a “brown-water corvette,” focused primarily on ASW in the coastal zone.

    Fresh analysis from CNA. Relevant in the context of the topic about poor Russian ASW capabilities. Opinions? Steregushchy and derivatives seem quite good with 2x4 Paket NK torpedo tubes and Ka-27. On the other hand, 3 tonn RBU-6000 submarine rocket launcher doesn't seem too problematic to mount on a 3000 tonn Derzky corvette. Seems that they lack a modernised version.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:42 am

    This is Gromkiy from Amur Shipyard
    yep, first trip out on trials for 2nd Pacific fleet 20380.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:56 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    https://www.cna.org/CNA_files/PDF/IOP-2018-U-018268-Final.pdf wrote:It has been repeatedly pointed out that the shipbuilding programs are missing a small ship, which could be described as a “brown-water corvette,” focused primarily on ASW in the coastal zone.

    Fresh analysis from CNA. Relevant in the context of the topic about poor Russian ASW capabilities. Opinions? Steregushchy and derivatives seem quite good with 2x4 Paket NK torpedo tubes and Ka-27. On the other hand, 3 tonn RBU-6000 submarine rocket launcher doesn't seem too problematic to mount on a 3000 tonn Derzky corvette. Seems that they lack a modernised version.

    "generously funded by Carnegie Corporation, New York" , can you imagine US expert taking grants from Russian MoD? me neither.

    1) 5 large ASW ships 1155 class will be modernized by 2022 AFAIK
    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/545992



    2) RBU-6000 is modernized ammo already , 500 new rounds were ordered by MoD
    https://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9C%D0%B2%D0%BC%D1%8114/

    IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.


    3) I still hope 22160 can be used as decent ASW corvette, Pantsir, Paket + helo. 2x4 Kalibrs (i.e. rocket torpedos)
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    George1

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:11 am

    It is planned that by the end of this year the corvette "Gromkiy" will be part of the Pacific Fleet.

    Currently, at the Αmur plant, under the state contract of June 4, 2015, the construction of the next two for this plant corvettes of project 20380 - “Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (serial number 2103, laid down on July 22, 2015) and “Rezkiy” (serial number 2104, founded July 1, 2016).















    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3396330.html
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:11 am

    IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.

    It also had a secondary anti diver mission, which I guess could translate into an anti UUV capability too...

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  kumbor on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:57 am

    GarryB wrote:
    IMHO RBU value now is not that much anti-sub but anti torpedo self defense.

    It also had a secondary anti diver mission, which I guess could translate into an anti UUV capability too...

    For anti diver and anti ROV UUV there are light 57mm multi barrel mortars. There is also "Damba" RBU bomb for RBU-6000 for same purpose. For AS there is a similar bomb with small sonar. As all western littoral subs are single hulled, it proves effective, at least to make submarine surface.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:55 am

    kumbor wrote:

    For anti diver and anti ROV UUV there are light 57mm multi barrel mortars. There is also "Damba" RBU bomb for RBU-6000 for same purpose. For AS there is a similar bomb with small sonar. As all western littoral subs are single hulled, it proves effective, at least to make submarine surface.

    its not about depth but range against subs. Unlikely to meet new sub in range less then 4km...

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