Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Share
    avatar
    DasVivo

    Posts : 13
    Points : 15
    Join date : 2015-12-12
    Location : Computer

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  DasVivo on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:14 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    They have no excuse. If they wanted Ukraine to stay allied, they should have kept Russian Army bases and air bases throughout the country and lobby Ukraine to join CSTO or whatever. Kuchma was allowed to play ball in the West, he shouldn't have. In the end, Russia paid for Ukrainian companies to stay afloat at the expense of national security (deal such delicate contracts to a country that wants to join your enemy's alliance).

    Personally speaking without wishing to go into it too much, my suspicion is multiple.....

    A) Ukraine would have been hesitant for more Russian Bases regardless whom was in charge....

    B) Attempting to force obviously would draw the heat/animosity of the western world far earlier in time, when Russia was obviously far less comfortably positioned to deal with it

    C) The Contracts/Work in Ukraine helped provide workers for the sections of Ukraine that indeed often did try and remain friendly with Russia (or were generally more sympathetic to the idea good ties including trade = good for Ukraine)...
    The argument many of these people had for maintaining good ties with Russia was in part motivated by these very continued 'trade arrangements'.
    Even up until the Orange Revolution whilst Ukraine wasn't exactly a reliable partner Politically, they hadn't gone quite completely out of control...... No so rapidly...

    D) As Garry points out Russia probably had enough things to work on over much of that time, and with limited budgets that means priorities (and to a degree no reinventing the wheel for every possible outcome)....

    IMHO the reality is Russian Shipyards etc over the years have had issues with settling on final design requirements, meeting production deadlines etc without the additional hurdle of creating new power plants and getting those out reliably....
    That the Ukrainian Card was pulled out from their hand has created issues certainly, and there are longer term lessons to be taken from it but as we see Russia is far better situated today to adapt to those new challenges and *fairly* rapidly overcome them. That a significant portion of Ukrainians didn't have the rug pulled out from underneath them has probably also helped many in Ukraine (especially those associated with Industry) to remember which side their bread was buttered on.....

    I am glad to see more of these Stereguschiys being put out despite their argued limitations.... What I am most interested to see is how production speeds vary (and ideally improve) over time.
    With the most recently laid down ships still having a predicted 3-4 year construction - commision date vs the latest Arleigh Burkes being doable in about the same time that leaves a lot of room to improve
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 642
    Points : 640
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:42 am

    Not wanting to bring up the political aspects but was reading in another forum apparently the sudden improvement in 20380 productivity at Amur may be not only a result of a cash injection &/or rigorous oversight from high levels of Govt but to a previous boss being arrested for corruption & an injection of motivated ex-Ukrainian workers from Nikolaev.
    Would also explain why they're now talking about a Karakurt build there as well.

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  T-47 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:22 pm

    hoom wrote:Not wanting to bring up the political aspects but was reading in another forum apparently the sudden improvement in 20380 productivity at Amur may be not only a result of a cash injection &/or rigorous oversight from high levels of Govt but to a previous boss being arrested for corruption & an injection of motivated ex-Ukrainian workers from Nikolaev.
    Would also explain why they're now talking about a Karakurt build there as well.

    I think injection of some motivated Ex-Antonov engineers will be helpful for Ilyushin as well.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5761
    Points : 5865
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:33 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    hoom wrote:...............

    I think injection of some motivated Ex-Antonov engineers will be helpful for Ilyushin as well.

    Ilyushin is doing fine. They restarted production of upgraded Il-76 and created Il-476 literally from nothing all on their own. Old factory was in freakin' Uzbekistan (I mean, are you kidding me, WTF commies???)

    They now need expanded facilities and new projects and orders.

    Very last thing they need is pile of incompetent leftovers from a company that has been unable to produce a usable aircraft for past 3 decades despite having everything given to them on a silver platter.

    Intentionally compromising quality of your workforce would be extremely stupid.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:25 am

    Sounds suspiciously like the claim that it was captured Germans that created most Soviet weapons in the immediate post WWII period.

    Even super skilled workers can't just go into a new factory and suddenly change production rates beyond all recognition... they have to learn to use the equipment too and to design new products.

    @kilogolf
    What are you saying?

    Are you suggesting that Russia should have just ignored the Ukrainian demand for independence and forced it to remain part of Russia?

    Heck, if they could do that there why not just do the same in every former Soviet republic and keep the Soviet Union going?


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 642
    Points : 640
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:09 am

    Sounds suspiciously like the claim that it was captured Germans that created most Soviet weapons in the immediate post WWII period.

    Even super skilled workers can't just go into a new factory and suddenly change production rates beyond all recognition... they have to learn to use the equipment too and to design new products.
    Well thats a very different & negative interpretation than I had  dunno

    I took it as implying ethnic Russians (or sane Ukrainians I guess) eager to show their worthiness to stay in the Mother country & not get sent back to Ukropia 404.
    I doubt there is particularly much difference between methods/tools at Nikolaev & Amur so skills should be pretty transferable.
    I'm pretty sure lack of staff has been a claimed issue for Amur so new bodies even if not particularly skilled would be likely to help a lot.

    Whatever the cause Amur getting its act together & getting the much delayed 20380s out the door is a good thing Very Happy
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10778
    Points : 11257
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:26 am

    The building corvette "Gromkyy" in the floating dock "Zeya"

    A series of interesting pictures of the projected 20380 "Gromkyy" corvette under construction at the Zeya dock with a floating dock at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant JSC (ASZ, part of United Shipbuilding Corporation) in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Recall that the second under construction at the site for the Russian Navy corvette project 20380 "Gromkyy" (plant number 2102) was withdrawn from the plant's dock at the floating dock "Zeya" on July 28, 2017.





    In the autumn, the "Gromkyy" corvette should be transferred for completion and subsequent testing for the new NAZHD commissioning base in Nakhodka. The delivery of the ship of the Navy is now scheduled for the end of 2018.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2770706.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 716
    Points : 720
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:57 am

    From what I understand the remaining project 2038's will all go to the pacific fleet.

    They will also get the first two 20385's.
    avatar
    Benya

    Posts : 528
    Points : 532
    Join date : 2016-06-05
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Benya on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:03 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:From what I understand the remaining project 2038's will all go to the pacific fleet.

    Actually after Sovershenniy and Gromkiy, the Pacific Fleet will receive two more normal Steregushchiy corvettes named GRF* Aldar Tsydenzhapov and Rezkiy, while the Baltic Fleet will also receive two of them named Retiviy and Strogiy.

    They will also get the first two 20385's.

    All four Gremyashchiy corvettes will go to the Pacific Fleet, the Northern Fleet will receive Derzkiy (Project 20386) corvettes.

    *GRF - Hero of the Russian Federation (Geroy Rossiiskoy Federatsii)

    marat

    Posts : 158
    Points : 160
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  marat on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:44 pm

    It will be interesting to see how 20385 shall be transported to TOF, on their own on or ship like submarines to Vietnam.

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  T-47 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:04 pm

    marat wrote:It will be interesting to see how 20385 shall be transported to TOF, on their own on or ship like submarines to Vietnam.

    On their own. They are pretty big, no point of transporting them by another ship. That Vietnam ship carried two subs at once, more efficient. But not in this case.

    marat

    Posts : 158
    Points : 160
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  marat on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:19 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    marat wrote:It will be interesting to see how 20385 shall be transported to TOF, on their own on or ship like submarines to Vietnam.

    On their own. They are pretty big, no point of transporting them by another ship. That Vietnam ship carried two subs at once, more efficient. But not in this case.


    Well that would be very long (25000 km) and expensive journey for those ships and their crew. With average speed of 25kmh they would need 40 days not counting stops.

    And ships would have to go on dock on repairs as soon as they would reach Vladivostok.

    Those are not oceangoing ships.

    Yes they can do that, but they are not planned for such long voyages.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 642
    Points : 640
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:25 pm

    Some post-launch 20385 pics from http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2796766.html




    and progress on the 2nd

    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  T-47 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:11 pm

    marat wrote:
    Well that would be very long (25000 km) and expensive journey for those ships and their crew. With average speed of 25kmh they would need 40 days not counting stops.

    And ships would have to go on dock on repairs as soon as they would reach Vladivostok.

    Those are not oceangoing ships.

    Yes they can do that, but they are not planned for such long voyages.

    True but carrying a ship of that size is also expensive. It depends on RuN actually.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5761
    Points : 5865
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:10 pm


    Some interior shots  thumbsup




    T-47

    Posts : 211
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Soobrazitelny firing Uran system at Zapad 2017

    Post  T-47 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:35 pm

    #pewpew

    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1233
    Points : 1392
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:15 pm

    Given that the UKSK is already in service, why will the Derzky have shitty X-35s, especially when the 23-85s will have UKSKs?

    Tingsay

    Posts : 36
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Tingsay on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:56 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Given that the UKSK is already in service, why will the Derzky have shitty X-35s, especially when the 23-85s will have UKSKs?

    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 642
    Points : 640
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:03 am

    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.
    Seen that said a couple of times but still not seen a proper quote to back it up.
    Hope its true though.

    Edit: worth pointing out the idea for the original design not having built-in UKSK is that it can use the containerised version.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1434
    Points : 1435
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:23 am

    Tingsay wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Given that the UKSK is already in service, why will the Derzky have shitty X-35s, especially when the 23-85s will have UKSKs?

    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.

    Which will also translate to delays in the later ships.

    Tingsay

    Posts : 36
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Tingsay on Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:42 am

    hoom wrote:
    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.
    Seen that said a couple of times but still not seen a proper quote to back it up.
    Hope its true though.

    Edit: worth pointing out the idea for the original design not having built-in UKSK is that it can use the containerised version.

    Yes, that's the brilliance of the design. Even if it doesn't get built-in ones, it's not a problem.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1565
    Points : 1565
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:26 pm

    hoom wrote:
    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.
    Seen that said a couple of times but still not seen a proper quote to back it up.
    Hope its true though.

    Edit: worth pointing out the idea for the original design not having built-in UKSK is that it can use the containerised version.

    That would possibly help make it rather cheaper to modernize.

    But they will use UKSK in order to make systems cheaper overall since so many other ships getting it.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5761
    Points : 5865
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:41 pm

    hoom wrote:
    Only the first one, rest will get UKSK.
    Seen that said a couple of times but still not seen a proper quote to back it up.
    Hope its true though.

    Edit: worth pointing out the idea for the original design not having built-in UKSK is that it can use the containerised version.

    Even though they are multirole vessels Derzkii's core purpose is still anti-sub warfare, everything else is just bonus.

    X-35 is decent, simple and affordable self defense tool but ship's main armament is anti-sub helicopter and possibly anti-sub missiles stored in the container just in case.

    And don't forget that lead ships in class tend to have less weaponry than later ones. Steregushi and Karakurt are good examples. Offshore Patrol Vessel too.

    Also we have separate tread for Derzkii class so we could move this discussion there.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10778
    Points : 11257
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:04 pm

    Hull of corvette "Retivyi" was formed



    The launch of the Corvette "Retivyi" is scheduled for the second quarter of 2019. The transfer of the corvette to military seamen should take place in 2020.

    The Northern Shipyard is building five corvettes for the Russian Navy: Gremyaschiy and Agronny (Project 20385), Reticy and Strict (Project 20380), Derzky (Project 20386). The designer of all the corvettes is the Almaz Central Design Bureau, the leading developer of surface warships for small and medium displacement.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2879349.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10778
    Points : 11257
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:02 pm

    OSK Severnaya Verf: 1st Pr.20385 #corvette Gremyashchiy is "65% complete"

    http://www.morvesti.ru/detail.php?ID=66850


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:10 am