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    Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

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    Dima
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 7:50 pm

    kvs wrote:So it is the 4000 series MTU.   All the other high power offerings have different cylinder configurations.
    Yes, think it has to be one among those series.

    BTW, production of gas turbines does not reside in the Ukraine.   Parts of the production resides in the Ukraine.
    Sorry about 22350, should have been clearer. I meant the 11356 which uses Zorya propulsion plants.
    But we don't see the 1135 or 11356 in the list on Zorya website as their 'clients'. So actually confused what actually are the Ukrainian stuffs in those power plants.
    If you have more info please do post it.

    The M90FR which is used in the 22350 is mostly built in Russia.  It is being replaced with first prototypes
    by early 2017.   This is a redesigned engine.   I guess Russia does not want the specs to belong to NATO
    since Banderastan has given its masters in Washington every piece of information on the M90FR.  
    Yes very true about the M90.

    But M90 gas turbine project was the most badly managed one and I have seen it referred in some articles from the 90s. If I'm not wrong the M90 was to complete its development cycle and meant to enter service in the 90s in the same time period (though with time lag) when the first of the uprated GE LM2500 (26,500 shp) was to go active with the Arleigh Burke class destroyers in the early 90s.

    But due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the crisis that followed, the project never really took off. And when it really took off on a modest level Russia made the mistake of pulling in the Ukrainians, the effect of which we see now. But the good news is that the M90 will now be completely free of Ukrainian components.
    But Russia lost a good load of time, nearly 25 years or more on the M90 where as its western/murican counterpart LM2500 crossed 30,000shp in the late 90s.

    I'm still not able to clearly understand (other than financial problems, corruption) why Russia, with so many gas turbines under its belt for various aircraft, did not try to convert them to be used for marine application.
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    GarryB
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 23, 2016 11:34 am

    I'm still not able to clearly understand (other than financial problems, corruption) why Russia, with so many gas turbines under its belt for various aircraft, did not try to convert them to be used for marine application.

    My hope is that they unify the designs and scale the various systems, so they can have engine families of different power rating levels for land, sea, and air based models.

    Power generation in land based power stations have similar issues to ship based systems and could be very closely related saving development money and increasing commonality improving maintainence.


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    kvs
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  kvs on Tue May 24, 2016 1:36 am

    Dima wrote:
    kvs wrote:So it is the 4000 series MTU.   All the other high power offerings have different cylinder configurations.
    Yes, think it has to be one among those series.

    BTW, production of gas turbines does not reside in the Ukraine.   Parts of the production resides in the Ukraine.
    Sorry about 22350, should have been clearer. I meant the 11356 which uses Zorya propulsion plants.
    But we don't see the 1135 or 11356 in the list on Zorya website as their 'clients'. So actually confused what actually are the Ukrainian stuffs in those power plants.
    If you have more info please do post it.

    The DT59 used in the 11356 is ancient:

    http://bastion-opk.ru/turbine-engine-dt-59/

    It was developed during the 1970s. It is a crime that Russia has not replaced it and the DS71. I have not seen any Russian
    variants to specifically replace them. The M70FRU and the M75RU have lower specific fuel consumption than the DS71.
    I suspect that work is ongoing to replace these "old pieces of junk" but without any fanfare. Banderastan has forced
    Russia to sever all ties. Zorya is going to go bankrupt in the future since its business was associated with Russian products.

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    George1
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:12 pm

    Russia Holds Keel-Laying Ceremony of Rezky Corvette at Country's Far East

    Rezky corvette is meant for antisubmarine and surface warfare as well as for supporting land operations

    VLADIVOSTOK (Sputnik) — Russia on Friday held a ceremony of laying the keel of Rezky corvette at the shipbuilding plant in the Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the press service of the Khabarovsk Territory's government said in a statement.

    "Today the official ceremony of the beginning of construction of a new ship — Rezky multipurpose patrol corvette of a littoral zone — took place at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant. The event was dedicated to the 80th plant's anniversary," the statement said.

    According to the statement, Rezky is the fourth corvette, which is constructed at the plant for the needs of the country's Pacific Fleet, and is expected to be handed over to the Navy in 2019.

    Rezky, the Project 20380-class corvette designed by Russia's Almaz naval design bureau, is optimized for antisubmarine and surface warfare as well as to support land operations.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160701/1042275395/rezky-corvette-russia.html


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    George1
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:23 am

    Project 20380 corvettes delivery has been delayed

    Deputy Defense Minister: Amur plant has delayed the state defense order


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    PapaDragon
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:40 pm

    George1 wrote:Project 20380 corvettes delivery has been delayed

    Deputy Defense Minister: Amur plant has delayed the state defense order

    No surprise there, whole thing is a complete disaster. They should really design something usable from scratch because these junkpiles are dead end. Is it true that they do not even have kitchens installed on them? What do sailors on those bathtubs eat?

    ALSO:

    Swiped these, Boiky and Stoiky deployed last week. Does anyone know where these pics might have been taken?



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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    No surprise there, whole thing is a complete disaster. They should really design something usable from scratch because these junkpiles are dead end. Is it true that they do not even have kitchens installed on them? What do sailors on those bathtubs eat?

    To  be honest, you need to ask yourself how did it look Amur shipyards 5 years ago...how crap it was. Organizing company without financing and enough qualified workers is no easy task. Besides I am no fan of 20380 but replacing something is in series is not trivial task and time here is critical. US cannot delay default forever  so more and more wars will be around. Russian fleet soon will be  depleting quicker than is replaced in terms of corvettes or frigates.


    PapaDragon wrote:
    Swiped these, Boiky and Stoiky deployed last week. Does anyone know where these pics might have been taken?

    Great Belt Bridge (Danemark -Sweden Smile to me

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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:Project 20380 corvettes delivery has been delayed

    Deputy Defense Minister: Amur plant has delayed the state defense order

    No surprise there, whole thing is a complete disaster. They should really design something usable from scratch because these junkpiles are dead end. Is it true that they do not even have kitchens installed on them? What do sailors on those bathtubs eat?

    ALSO:

    Swiped these, Boiky and Stoiky deployed last week. Does anyone know where these pics might have been taken?
    .
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    You remind me of ultron/resistance.
    Don't worry, sailors on these corvettes are not starving. Watch the""Baltic fleet  "" corvette vs submarine series to see with your own eyes.

    The Boiky and Stoiky have indeed crossed the straits in Danemark and are now in the North Sea to troll NATO navies. And by the way, the sailors are having warm meal
    [/img]
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    PapaDragon
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:45 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:............
    You remind me of ultron/resistance.
    Don't worry, sailors on these corvettes are not starving. Watch the""Baltic fleet  "" corvette vs submarine series to see with your own eyes.

    The Boiky and Stoiky have indeed crossed the straits in Danemark and are now in the North Sea to troll NATO navies. And by the way, the sailors are having warm meal
    [/img]


    Let's keep this civil, I haven't insulted you and I expect same in return.

    I am no fan of this class of ships (White Elephants to be more precise) and I have gone on the record about it before. They have been in ''production'' for nearly two decades and even if there were more than handful of them made (which there aren't) they would still be due for replacement simply on basis of being obsolete by now. And they were never even decent let alone good product to begin with.

    Switching to new class of ships is matter of time and money. In this case there is no reason not to abandon this model. They take so long to build that they are due for upgrade even before they are finished and they cost as much as full sized frigate.

    Somebody is getting both screwed and robbed blind here.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:39 pm

    Sovershennyy, the first of the Amur built vessels, finally looks closer now to completion.
    With this completion now imminent, and serving as the pattern ship for the shipyard, the other 3 vessels from this yard should hopefully follow much quicker.

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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:00 pm

    @ Papadragon,

    Hey, take it easy.
    I did not mean to offend you. Sorry if I did. In my books, you are one of the good guys here.

    On the other hand, you are yourself being too harsh on this class of ships.

    First of all, they have not been in production for 2 decades.
    The lead ship (Steregushy) was laid down in 2001 and commissioned in 2007.
    4 are already built and in service. 8 more are in construction.
    The latest one (Rezky) was laid down earlier this month. So, if they are still ordering them, they must be satisfied with them.

    What makes you say they are due for replacement?
    What makes you think they are obsolete already?
    What makes you say they need upgrades?

    These relatively modest sized ships (2000T) come with the latest anti-air system (Redut) and the latest antisubmarine system (Paket).
    They also carry a full-sized helicopter, large caliber modern gun, variable depth sonar, modern radars that we know very little about etc.etc.
    So, what is exactly obsolete about them?

    With so much cutting edge equipment (The equipment level is similar to a larger frigate), it is natural that they end up being a bit expensive. No wonder.

    The relatively slow (by western standards) construction speed is not the ships fault. Blame it on the MoD not financing the projects quick enough and on the shipyard(s) slowness or maybe the equipment suppliers being tardy.

    @ Wilhelm,

    That photo you posted is at least 2 months old.


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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:43 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:

    @ Wilhelm,

    That photo you posted is at least 2 months old.


    Thanks. I assume then that it is probably a little further along then?
    Any newer pics?
    Also, has there been any release of a date on when they anticipate it will start trials?
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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:58 pm

    wilhelm wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:

    @ Wilhelm,

    That photo you posted is at least 2 months old.


    Thanks. I assume then that it is probably a little further along then?
    Any newer pics?
    Also, has there been any release of a date on when they anticipate it will start trials?

    No newer picture since then.
    We don't know how much work has progressed since then.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:41 pm


    First decent footage of Steregushi class corvette in quite a while, even some interiors too.



    Hopefully with engine issue now finally solved they can fully switch to Gremashi class or even something newer (there was proposal for Tiger class) so RU Navy can finally get some mass produced stuff and put the whole corvette issue to bed.
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    sepheronx
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:09 pm

    As a note, both Gorshkov and steregushi both use Redute and thus currently have the same issues. Engine issue is resolved? Which engines?

    Anyway, they need to build more of these.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:31 pm

    sepheronx wrote:As a note, both Gorshkov and steregushi both use Redute and thus currently have the same issues. Engine issue is resolved? Which engines?

    Anyway, they need to build more of these.

    Gorshkov's use new missiles for Redut and those new missiles have issues. Standard Redut missiles used in other ships have no problems.

    As for engines, there are news about it several posts earlier on this page.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:01 pm

    The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed. Which ones is Steregushi using?

    Good to know engine solution has been worked out.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:12 pm

    sepheronx wrote:The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.  Which ones is Steregushi using?

    Good to know engine solution has been worked out.

    No, it's something to do with one particular type of missiles (newest ones for Gorshkovs) Others work no problem.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:24 pm

    So we got confirmation on that? I know we were debating it a while ago since Gorshkov was pushed back to November.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:15 pm

    The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.
    This is the big confusion for me too dunno

    Standard Redut missiles used in other ships have no problems.
    The standard Redut missiles are 2 variants of 9m96 40km & 120km plus 9m100 15km.
    Gorshkov uses the same missiles as far as everything I've seen. (thats the point of a standardised VLS system)
    Though maybe they (sensibly) never even considered trying the 120km version on 20380 -> it would be 'new' for Gorshkov.

    I thought that the 9m96 & 9m100 had been tested & gone into service as an integral part of S-400. (haven't actually seen any of those quad-packs showing on pics of actual service vehicles though)
    I'd also got the impression they'd at least tested the S-350 which is the land analogue of Poliment-Redut?

    20380 is said to have had issues with its Redut system because the Furke radar isn't strong enough (its a navalised version of the Pantsir radar), but it did eventually pass tests allowing them into service.
    But when Gorshkov with much more powerful radar has a similar issue of failed intercepts it kinda points to the missiles.

    I ran into an older (& google translated) article which suggested 20380 only actually passed with a ~15km range interception using 9m100 guided by the Puma radar which would tend to point to the 9m96 missiles again.
    Except 9m100 is an IR missile that probably doesn't require guidance & I've not seen any suggestion that the Puma gun firecontrol radar is capable of working with AA missiles so the credibility is low in my opinion scratch

    I also read an article talking about issues with Shtil-1 on the first Talwars: apparently they had a similar issue of missile guidance failing, found the Puma was actually causing interference on the frequency used by the missile guidance, missile guys spent a bunch of time reworking things with insufficient improvement then eventually a senior radar troubleshooter guy sent over to India did something really basic like tweak the frequency of the Puma & quickly fixed it -> 2nd order from India.
    Not sure how credible that is either.

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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:51 pm

    hoom wrote:
    The understanding is that it isn't the missiles that are the problem but the guidance/tracking system. Since it was multiple of missiles of each type that failed.
    This is the big confusion for me too dunno
    ........................

    Guy, only one type suffered failures, the new 9M96D/DM. Problem is compatibility with Poliment radar that needs to provide mid-course guidance. That is where Gorshkov delay comes from. They could load standard missiles and those ships would be ready now.  

    All standard Redut missiles work fine both on Russian Navy ships and on export vessels (eg. Talwar-class for India)
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    sepheronx
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:56 pm

    I think talwar used shtil-1
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:07 pm

    Shtil-1 has a different VLS & uses Front-dome for guidance, its a completely different system than Redut.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:07 pm

    Bottom line is that missiles work otherwise RU navy would have had useless missiles for past two decades.
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    Re: Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:26 pm

    Papa, read this:
    https://m.lenta.ru/articles/2016/08/18/front_rabot/

    It seems to state Palmas antey has issues with everything, but I am assuming its bullshit. 9m96 being bad performer, 40n6 not in service, etc. But it leads me to believe being garbage journalism cause 9m96 was in service for years and 40n6 was tested years ago as well.

    It talks about issue with redut and shtil

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