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    Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

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    southpark

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    Post  southpark on Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:45 pm

    In theory, Russian equipment always seems to beat everyone else..."no analogues in the world"  :-) But their strategy is defensive for ever (Sweedish, Polish, French and German attacks) and everytime it came at a massive cost. I actually think it is kinda stupid to play that game...the argument that "we beat back everyone and don't poke the bear blah blah" is kinda stupid. Getting fooled once is understandable and may be twice but that many times...there is something wrong. So all these great toys wont be much if you don't send the message that you mean business....its like India vs Pakistan (India always on fucking defensive mode). The offensive ones generally win in the end (mongols vs chinese), Islamic invaders vs Indian Kingdoms (early 7th century) after trying many times. Look at it objectively...they did do well in Syria though. You don't want to fight wars on your soil...

    I do not think US designs the conventional equipment to go one on one against Russian conventional weapons for a peer to peer confrontation....nukes are pretty good match. Strategy and purpose are completely different....

    I do not think they are in the same class...Rafale may be better comparison

    Note: One dimensional bubbleman, please keep your response short...if you chose to go haywire
    dino00
    dino00

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    Post  dino00 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:22 pm

    One surprised thing for me was how close the su and the mig where.
    LMFS
    LMFS

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    Post  LMFS on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:46 pm

    dino00 wrote:One surprised thing for me was how close the su and the mig where.

    Yeah, for me too, but in the end the MiG always was a pretty nimble plane and new TVC / FCS / engines gives it pretty much the same arguments the Su-35 has.

    Very striking to me is the apparently small effect the new short range missiles capable of acquiring the target after launch have in the fight, once the kinematics of the whole engagement are considered. Minimum range is an issue, as well as their capacity to actually find the target by themselves after being launched. These elements are very difficult to analyse qualitatively so the study is very enlightening
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:46 am

    My understanding is that they want the new short range weapons to have IIR seekers and datalinks so a target locked with helmet mounted sights or IRST or radar or any combination and be fired upon by a lock on after launch weapon that uses a datalink with the launch aircraft to ensure it goes after the target the pilot wants killed first.

    Perhaps a few MiG-35 haters can pull their heads in and give credit where credit is due... but I doubt it... haters are going to hate.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:My understanding is that they want the new short range weapons to have IIR seekers and datalinks so a target locked with helmet mounted sights or IRST or radar or any combination and be fired upon by a lock on after launch weapon that uses a datalink with the launch aircraft to ensure it goes after the target the pilot wants killed first.
    This was the scenario in the simulation indeed, but even when the author acknowledges this technology allows an opponent to defend himself despite the positional inferiority and their guidance was simulated as flawless, the results were not that brilliant. That being said, we know essentially nothing about data and assumptions used for the analysis and that is where the trick lies, but the same author made some other analysis with different results. For instance against Rafale it was not so easy for Su-35, which makes sense if you analyse the aero qualities of the plane. If you would consider Su-57 with superior aero design, bigger wing and intake capture area, TWR and systems including DIRCM it may look even uglier for F-35.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:53 am

    I think the Rafale and the Typhoon and the MiG-35 and Su-35 are all better than the F-35 in most areas except stealth, and if you have things that can see past the stealth features like L band AESA radar and IRST systems, the F-35 becomes a very expensive fighter bomber more comparable to the British Buccaneer than the American F-16.

    They wanted it to be a stealth F-16, but really it is a stealth Bucc... which makes it an acceptable medium range strike aircraft, but like putting AAMs on an Su-24 or F-111 and reducing their effective range and limiting them to 6 bombs each... but stealthy... and very very expensive.

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