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    Argentina and Venezuela

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    par far

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    What happens with Venezuela?

    Post  par far on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:27 pm

    With Maduro's party losing(a friendly Russian government), what happens with Venezuela and Russia relations? Venezuela had a good chance of joining the BRICS but now with a west backed government, has Russia and the BRICS lost Venezuela to the west? They are going to be friendly towards the west now and they will buy weapons from the west. Hopefully Russia is able to steal a West Country, just like west did in Venezuela. This has changed things drastically and this is not good.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:47 pm

    Who knows. I imagine Russias participation in venezuela will be dumped now though if it is the case.  No more weapon sales I suppose.
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    max steel

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  max steel on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:50 pm

    Maduro govt made venezuela citizens life hell. Lets see what this govt will do. Oh! It's not some conspiracy, citizens left with no choice but to go for the alternative. He even failed to diversify Venezuela economy apart from oil.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:04 pm

    max steel wrote:Maduro govt made venezuela citizens life hell. Lets see what this govt will do. Oh! It's not some conspiracy, citizens left with no choice but to go for the alternative. He even failed to diversify Venezuela economy apart from oil.
    The new guy wont either.  Issue was when they collectivized the farms.  Outside of that, there really isnt much to move to anymore to "diversify" from oil and gas.  This word haz been thrown around for decades about most countries but lets face facts - countries like China, Taiwan, S. Korea dominate the cheap manufacturing goods, and Germany for heavy industrial goods (with Japan and China starting to outpace as well).  There isnt much left to diversify from. People say "small companies" but how will the small companies make money? Most small companies are not exporters so the revenue wont be gained from outside. So print more money to circulate?

    It is a growing problem everywhere. Globalization and the printing press for money has caused this issue.  Essentially, it is a few large countries who rule and everyone else is either poor, becoming poor or aiming at 1 gimmick economies or banking schemes.  Venezuela wont be able to change anytime soon.  They could gain more money through growing more food and selling it to countries like Russia whom sanctioned a lot others so a high demand.  But that would mean heavy competition or takeover from Brazil or Argentina.  Cars and such? Well, already issue with unsold cars in thousands everywhere else.  Weapons manufacturing? Can make a buck from neighboring countries.

    In the end, Energy, Food and medicine companies are where the money is at and everywhere else, isnt unless you allow the bigger companies invest in your country and guarantees sales/work (GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc).

    Unless they become drug kingpins.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:56 pm

    Max you understand that petro-Venezuela isn't something that didn't get enough diversification, since the previous governments, you know all those Reagan buddies, were all selling oil even at a lower price (the Venezuelan boom happened at 15USD/bbl). What changed is a two fold issue.

    A. Fully integrated Social State, which in the region couldn't resist to the devaluation of oil and Venezuelan assets, since no one likes protectionism in 3rd World countries.
    B. A massive Private sector migration in neighbouring countries, because of less stringent social norms.

    A country like Chile is booming because of its No Social protection policy.

    If you add to that, mismanagement, graft, corruption and Jeffe policy, you'll have these kind of results. What I honestly am eager to see, is how the guys from Team America are going to do this miracle or getting half the country's industry back with oil @ 40USD/bbl.

    Actually this is the worst that could happen right now. Venezuela about to become South America's Ukraine.

    whir

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  whir on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:27 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Actually this is the worst that could happen right now. Venezuela about to become South America's Ukraine.
    Not really, the worst is going to come once people find themselves without political representation, give it some time.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:36 pm

    whir wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Actually this is the worst that could happen right now. Venezuela about to become South America's Ukraine.
    Not really, the worst is going to come once people find themselves without political representation, give it some time.

    Voting for those who robbed them blind for a century, it's exactly what this is. There's no one in earth, who knows two cents about Venezuela that can see any logic, in poor people chosing to get back to lumpenproletariat period. It's already a fucked up moment. Seeing the privatization process starting in about 6 to 12 months should get anyone twitching.

    whir

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  whir on Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:16 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Voting for those who robbed them blind for a century, it's exactly what this is. There's no one in earth, who knows two cents about Venezuela that can see any logic, in poor people chosing to get back to lumpenproletariat period. It's already a fucked up moment. Seeing the privatisation process starting in about 6 to 12 months should get anyone twitching.
    Most those poor people see themselves as middle class not as poor and in theory they have voted for a plethora of figures from a coalition of more than a dozen different parties.

    No privatisation in sight, for the moment; amnesties and constitutional referendums are the priority right now.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:34 pm

    whir wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Voting for those who robbed them blind for a century, it's exactly what this is. There's no one in earth, who knows two cents about Venezuela that can see any logic, in poor people chosing to get back to lumpenproletariat period. It's already a fucked up moment. Seeing the privatisation process starting in about 6 to 12 months should get anyone twitching.
    Most those poor people see themselves as middle class not as poor and in theory they have voted for a plethora of figures from a coalition of more than a dozen different parties.

    No privatisation in sight, for the moment; amnesties and constitutional referendums are the priority right now.

    I'm willing to bet some German wine (yes you read that right), that the privatization process of parts of PVDSA will be on the cards as early as june 2016, because Venezuela is broke as hell.
    For the rest, what people feel and what they really are, are two distinct realities.

    whir

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  whir on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:51 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:I'm willing to bet some German wine (yes you read that right),
    Why should anyone want that filth? drunken

    KoTeMoRe wrote:that the privatisation process of parts of PVDSA will be on the cards as early as june 2016, because Venezuela is broke as hell.
    Depends on the dollar exchange but in the mean time they're going to make their best returning stolen property to it's lawful owners, a noble cause that surely is going to be praised by the international community.

    par far

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    Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  par far on Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:16 am

    With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:20 am

    par far wrote:With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.

    They have?

    par far

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  par far on Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:43 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    par far wrote:With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.

    They have?


    "Argentina’s new president Mauricio Macri intends to restore the best relations possible with the U.S".

    http://rbth.com/international/2015/12/11/press-digest-will-new-argentinian-leader-maintain-relations-with-russia_550141




    This asshole is clearly a west Zionst asshole, he is going to sell off everything to west and people in Argentina will only have themselves to blames.


    The Zionsts are clearly responsible for this.

    http://www.russia-direct.org/opinion/what-deal-russias-latin-american-allies

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    flamming_python

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:00 pm

    par far wrote:With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.

    I haven't seen any indication that they've become hostile to Russia. I'd be very surprised if they decide to ruin ties.
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    max steel

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  max steel on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:05 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    par far wrote:With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.

    I haven't seen any indication that they've become hostile to Russia. I'd be very surprised if they decide to ruin ties.

    Argentine President to take 10 Billion$ loan from wall street.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:41 pm

    max steel wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    par far wrote:With the recent elections in Argentina and Venezuela, Russia has lost two good allies to west. They have become hostile to Russia, this cannot keep happening.

    I haven't seen any indication that they've become hostile to Russia. I'd be very surprised if they decide to ruin ties.

    Argentine President to take 10 Billion$ loan from wall street.

    Source?
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    max steel

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  max steel on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:51 pm

    Bloomberg. Rest you can do the needful.
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    George1

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:56 pm

    For Argentina things arent so bad because the elected president is a business class man whose party is active mainly in capital and all of οpposition parties supported him.  Kirchnerism as a political actor will continue. They still have a lot of power inside the congress for example, plus popularity among the youth, plus young politicians commanding a possible renewal of leadership inside the movement (example, Cristina's son Maximo).

    For Venezuela i am afraid that Left's period of popularity has come to an end. And this is because of 3 factors:
    1. The decline in oil prices had reduced economic potential of Venezuela thats why we saw shortages in last years
    2. Maduro's political weight and personality cant match that of Chavez who promoted latin american integration and an alternative in neoliberalism
    3. Opposition after years looks united and more experienced.
    The next big battle will be in presidential elections of 2018 and it would very difficult for Madurο-PSUV to win under these circumstances


    Last edited by George1 on Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:38 pm

    George1 wrote:For Argentina things arent so bad because the elected president is a business class man whose party is active mainly in capital and all of οpposition parties supported him.  Kirchnerism as a political actor will continue. They still have a lot of power inside the congress for example, plus popularity among the youth, plus young politicians commanding a possible renewal of leadership inside the movement (example, Cristina's son Maximo).

    For Venezuela i am afraid that Left's period of popularity has come to an end. And this is because of 3 factors:
    1. The decline in oil prices had reduced economic potential of Venezuela thats why we saw shortages in last years
    2. Maduro's political weight and personality cant match that of Chavez who promoted latin american integration and an alternative in neoliberalism
    3. Opposition after years looks united and more experienced.
    The next big battle will be in presidential elections of 2018 and it would very difficult for Madur-PSUV to win under these circumstances

    From a cynical point of view - as Venezuela's era of oil wealth has ended, so has its usefulness to Russia.

    Venezuela was significant to Russia only really as an arms purchaser, and to a lesser extent - energy co-operation in oil and nuclear power (which will probably mostly continue even if a pro-American government is voted in as these things are long-term and mutually lucrative).
    If low oil prices are here to stay than Venezuela probably won't be buying much of anything from Russia in either case.

    In terms of its UN support, political sympathy and co-operation, loudmouth denouncements of US policy and joint military exercises with Russia - it was all a nice bonus but ultimately superflous, it didn't further Russian interests too much.
    In fact a Venezuela that's openly antagonistic to the US is not necessarily in Russian interests - it might do something stupid like Saakashvilli, or it might get into fights with its neighbours which would jeopardize Russian relations to other Latin American countries that might feel that Russia is too close a friend to their adversary.

    Russia's policy in South America should be to stay out of local politics and disputes, and try to promote arms sales, energy joint projects, political co-operation, trade, etc... with absolutely everyone; pro-US or anti-US should be irrelevant.
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    George1

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:52 pm

    Venezuela's Opposition Starts Campaign to Remove Maduro From Power

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/latam/20160308/1035978358/venezuela-opposition-maduro-removal.html#ixzz42bP3lQJ0


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    par far

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    Will the Zionsts take over South America?

    Post  par far on Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:23 pm

    The Zionsts have taken over Brazil and Argentina, now they are trying to take over Venezuela(the only country resisting agianst Zionsts in South America), what do you see as the outcome here?
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Argentina and Venezuela

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:14 pm

    Don't be silly. Zionists didn't take Brazil or Argentina and don't take Venezuela either. Venezuela is in the process of liberation from neo-marxist/leftist paranoia.

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