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38 posters
A-235/PL-19 Nudol ABM-ASAT
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
The Russian Ministry of Defense conducted a successful test of a modernized missile defense system. The launch was carried out by combat crews of the air and missile defense forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces at the Sary-Shagan test site in Kazakhstan, according to the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Russian Defense Ministry.
As explained in the Russian military department, the new modernized missile defense system does not yet have a name, only a alphanumeric name. This launch of the rocket is not the first, previously the rocket has already been launched and, after a series of tests, reliably confirmed the inherent characteristics.
Launched a rocket successfully completed the task, hitting the target with a given accuracy. Pledged characteristics confirmed- said the commander of the anti-missile defense compound of the VKS, Colonel Sergey Grabchuk. They
began to test the new Russian antimissile only last year, TC Zvezda reports. At the same time, it is claimed that this is the first rocket in the last few decades, which in terms of the intensity of test launches at the Sary-Shagan test site has broken all records.
It is assumed that the rocket will go into service of the A-235 air and missile defense system, which is being created to replace the A-135, covering Moscow and the Central region of Russia.
https://topwar.ru/150594-vks-proveli-uspeshnoe-ispytanie-modernizirovannoj-rakety-pro.html
George1- Posts : 18305
Points : 18802
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Anti-satellite complex Nudol
I decided to raise some updates and make some generalizations and logical (hopefully) conclusions on the Nudol complex:
1. The 14TS033 Nudol complex is being created by the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern with a 14A042 missile developed by the Novator Design Bureau. Accordingly, the rocket is likely to have a carrying cone with a body of the solid type and most likely ideologically close to both the 9M82 rocket and the 53T6 rocket (I am more inclined to the first one).
2. The complex in the West is considered anti-satellite, and indeed work on the multifunctional radar complex 14TS031 was conducted by Radiofizika OJSC in terms of improving the accuracy of detecting and tracking small space objects. But, it is clear that, for example, the warheads of ballistic missiles in the transatmospheric trajectory segment are, by their very parameters, “small space objects”. So, the antimissile purpose of the Nudol complex remains as a realistic option for using the complex.
Supposedly, the variant SPU P222 of the complex 14TS033 "Nudol" on the chassis of MZKT-79291, publication 2015, the source.
3. Probably, the complex included mobile components, namely: the launcher 14P222, command and computing point 14P078, radar 14TS031, the transport vehicle of the complex, and probably other means (for example, communications and target designation from the "large" radar).
4. A prototype of the facilities of the complex was developed in 2010-2013, the manufacture of components of the prototype system was conducted by the cooperation of enterprises of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern in 2012-2014. I think that the release of transport-launch glasses and rockets is conducted in a small series at the Avangard plant and at the Kalinin Machine-Building Plant.
5. The tests of the complex are carried out only in Plesetsk, and possible references to the West of launches from Kapustin Yar are either erroneous or the result of confusion with launches within the framework of the C-500 project.
6. Component chassis is still the most difficult question for me, but my personal IMHO is:
- launcher 14P222 - MZKT chassis (I don’t know exactly which one), possibly with two missiles;
- transport vehicle - MZKT-69221-032 - there is no reason not to trust the sources;
- Radar - I think that the same MZKT - which model is not yet clear;
- command and computing point - similar to MZKT.
https://militaryrussia.livejournal.com/429879.html
I decided to raise some updates and make some generalizations and logical (hopefully) conclusions on the Nudol complex:
1. The 14TS033 Nudol complex is being created by the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern with a 14A042 missile developed by the Novator Design Bureau. Accordingly, the rocket is likely to have a carrying cone with a body of the solid type and most likely ideologically close to both the 9M82 rocket and the 53T6 rocket (I am more inclined to the first one).
2. The complex in the West is considered anti-satellite, and indeed work on the multifunctional radar complex 14TS031 was conducted by Radiofizika OJSC in terms of improving the accuracy of detecting and tracking small space objects. But, it is clear that, for example, the warheads of ballistic missiles in the transatmospheric trajectory segment are, by their very parameters, “small space objects”. So, the antimissile purpose of the Nudol complex remains as a realistic option for using the complex.
Supposedly, the variant SPU P222 of the complex 14TS033 "Nudol" on the chassis of MZKT-79291, publication 2015, the source.
3. Probably, the complex included mobile components, namely: the launcher 14P222, command and computing point 14P078, radar 14TS031, the transport vehicle of the complex, and probably other means (for example, communications and target designation from the "large" radar).
4. A prototype of the facilities of the complex was developed in 2010-2013, the manufacture of components of the prototype system was conducted by the cooperation of enterprises of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern in 2012-2014. I think that the release of transport-launch glasses and rockets is conducted in a small series at the Avangard plant and at the Kalinin Machine-Building Plant.
5. The tests of the complex are carried out only in Plesetsk, and possible references to the West of launches from Kapustin Yar are either erroneous or the result of confusion with launches within the framework of the C-500 project.
6. Component chassis is still the most difficult question for me, but my personal IMHO is:
- launcher 14P222 - MZKT chassis (I don’t know exactly which one), possibly with two missiles;
- transport vehicle - MZKT-69221-032 - there is no reason not to trust the sources;
- Radar - I think that the same MZKT - which model is not yet clear;
- command and computing point - similar to MZKT.
https://militaryrussia.livejournal.com/429879.html
dino00- Posts : 1677
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Join date : 2012-10-12
Age : 36
Location : portugal
Russia conducted another successful test of an anti-satellite missile, according to a classified US intelligence report
Russia conducted another successful flight test of its new anti-satellite missile system last month, according to two people with direct knowledge of a classified U.S. intelligence report.
The anti-satellite missile flew for 17 minutes and 1,864 miles before successfully splashing down in its target area.
The latest revelation comes on the heels of the Pentagon's 108-page missile defense review, which marks the first overhaul of America's missile defense doctrine in nearly a decade. The unclassified review, which singles out emerging Russian, Chinese, North Korean and Iranian missile threats, also focuses on anti-satellite capabilities that "could threaten U.S. space-based assets."
According to the missile review, "Russia is developing a diverse suite of anti-satellite capabilities, including ground-launched missiles and directed-energy weapons, and continues to launch 'experimental' satellites that conduct sophisticated on-orbit activities to advance counterspace capabilities."
Russia's PL-19 Nudol, a system U.S. military intelligence assesses will be focused primarily on anti-satellite missions, was successfully tested twice in 2018. The weapon, which was fired from a mobile launcher, was last tested on Dec. 23 and marked the seventh overall test of the system, according to one of the people who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The Russian anti-satellite weapon is expected to target communication and imagery satellites in low Earth orbit, according to the other person, who also spoke on condition of anonymity. For reference, the International Space Station and the Hubble Space Telescope travel in low Earth orbit.
More
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/russia-succeeds-in-mobile-anti-satellite-missile-test-us-intelligence-report.html
3000 km??
Russia conducted another successful flight test of its new anti-satellite missile system last month, according to two people with direct knowledge of a classified U.S. intelligence report.
The anti-satellite missile flew for 17 minutes and 1,864 miles before successfully splashing down in its target area.
The latest revelation comes on the heels of the Pentagon's 108-page missile defense review, which marks the first overhaul of America's missile defense doctrine in nearly a decade. The unclassified review, which singles out emerging Russian, Chinese, North Korean and Iranian missile threats, also focuses on anti-satellite capabilities that "could threaten U.S. space-based assets."
According to the missile review, "Russia is developing a diverse suite of anti-satellite capabilities, including ground-launched missiles and directed-energy weapons, and continues to launch 'experimental' satellites that conduct sophisticated on-orbit activities to advance counterspace capabilities."
Russia's PL-19 Nudol, a system U.S. military intelligence assesses will be focused primarily on anti-satellite missions, was successfully tested twice in 2018. The weapon, which was fired from a mobile launcher, was last tested on Dec. 23 and marked the seventh overall test of the system, according to one of the people who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The Russian anti-satellite weapon is expected to target communication and imagery satellites in low Earth orbit, according to the other person, who also spoke on condition of anonymity. For reference, the International Space Station and the Hubble Space Telescope travel in low Earth orbit.
More
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/russia-succeeds-in-mobile-anti-satellite-missile-test-us-intelligence-report.html
3000 km??
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
- Post n°80
[size=36]Russia conducted another successful test of an anti-satellite missile, according to a classified US intelligence report[/size]
Austin Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:50 am
[size=36]Russia conducted another successful test of an anti-satellite missile, according to a classified US intelligence report[/size]
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/russia-succeeds-in-mobile-anti-satellite-missile-test-us-intelligence-report.html?&qsearchterm=russia
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/russia-succeeds-in-mobile-anti-satellite-missile-test-us-intelligence-report.html?&qsearchterm=russia
- Russia conducted another successful flight test of its new anti-satellite missile system last month, two sources with direct knowledge of a U.S. intelligence report say.
- Russia's PL-19 Nudol, a system U.S. military intelligence assesses will be focused primarily on anti-satellite missions, has been tested seven times.
- The Russian anti-satellite weapon is expected to target communication and imagery satellites in low Earth orbit, according to one source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Location : India
Not sure how reliable CNBC is quoting some unknown intel sources but it says Nudal Travelled 3000 km in 17 mins and hit the target.
So roughly the interceptor travelled 3 km/sec to reach 3000 km
So roughly the interceptor travelled 3 km/sec to reach 3000 km
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
Austin wrote:Not sure how reliable CNBC is quoting some unknown intel sources but it says Nudal Travelled 3000 km in 17 mins and hit the target.
So roughly the interceptor travelled 3 km/sec to reach 3000 km
Nudol is a full-fledged ABM, so the idea of it focusing solely on satellites is wishful thinking on their part.
George1- Posts : 18305
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Now it's overshoot. The December Nudol test would be the third from Plesetsk. Rogozin said there were just two. But now we know what are these NOTAMs in the Laptev Sea - that's about 1800 miles. There was a similar NOTAM in March
https://twitter.com/russianforces/status/1086521617763782656
https://twitter.com/russianforces/status/1086521617763782656
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
There seems be a concerted effort to classify S-500 and Nudol as simply anti-sat weapons, instead of full-fledged ABM's, which is hilarious considering the USSR had the ability to shoot down satellites since the early 1970's, so there seems to be propaganda effort behind this intentional classification error. I guess you can't admit the folly of leaving the ABM treaty by acknowledging the S-500 and Nudol systems as mobile ABM systems.
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
Well yes if it can hit a satellite in orbit travelling at 8 or 9 km/sec then it can certainly hit a warhead too , Likely this is like a midcourse defence system of Russia
GarryB- Posts : 38926
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So roughly the interceptor travelled 3 km/sec to reach 3000 km
That would be average speed... rocket propelled missiles are like bullets fired from a gun... the propellant burns and accelerates the missile till the fuel runs out in the rocket or the bullet leaves the end of the barrel.
Of course a missile has guidance and the ability to manouver but is largely unpowered for most of the flight which is roughly ballistic in nature... so it might have started off travelling at 4-5km/s but slowed down during the flight...
A satellite in low earth orbit like the ISS could be travelling at about 7.4km/s, but an interceptor missile does not need to match its speed to hit it...
Yuri Gagarin reached orbital speed and entered earth orbit first, but the American attempt to get into space couldn't get to orbital speed... it was just a parabola flight that went up and came straight back down... it was years later that the Americans got someone into orbit...
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
GarryB wrote:So roughly the interceptor travelled 3 km/sec to reach 3000 km
That would be average speed... rocket propelled missiles are like bullets fired from a gun... the propellant burns and accelerates the missile till the fuel runs out in the rocket or the bullet leaves the end of the barrel.
Of course a missile has guidance and the ability to manouver but is largely unpowered for most of the flight which is roughly ballistic in nature... so it might have started off travelling at 4-5km/s but slowed down during the flight...
A satellite in low earth orbit like the ISS could be travelling at about 7.4km/s, but an interceptor missile does not need to match its speed to hit it...
Yuri Gagarin reached orbital speed and entered earth orbit first, but the American attempt to get into space couldn't get to orbital speed... it was just a parabola flight that went up and came straight back down... it was years later that the Americans got someone into orbit...
But what do you think about 'military experts' labeling Nudol and S-500 as nothing more than ASAT systems?
George1- Posts : 18305
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Position of the complex 14TS033 "Nudol" in Plesetsk
Since they do not hide the activity on the site, the enemy is already aware of what is coming from and where, especially as the Russian Federation warns it in advance: notifications about the closure of areas for the fall of the stages of an interceptor missile in the Arctic seas are published on the websites of the US government services.
Working together is enjoyable, especially when it brings fruit. With a high degree of probability, the common efforts of not indifferent comrades found a platform for testing the Nudol complex at the Plesetsk cosmodrome. Two starting positions are located on the former site of the Cyclone LV.
On commercial satellite images, evidence of activity was found, as well as aggregates similar to the previously published 3D-render of the SPU P222 on the MZKT-792911 chassis and images from the patent on the SPU design.
3D render of SPU P222 (source):
Figure from the patent for the design of the SPU (source):
Satellite image of launch sites for spring 2018:
The starting configuration of the units in this snapshot is not entirely clear: it is likely that there is another unit in front of the SPU with communication and start-up equipment; Possibly, this unit is mounted on the MZKT-69221-032 chassis - purchases of this chassis for use as part of the Nudol complex 14TS033 were featured in the Almaz-Antey reports.
ΜZKT-69221-032 special wheeled chassis (source):
Approximately, the construction of launch sites began in late 2015 - early 2016, by the summer of 2017. The western site was ready, the construction of the eastern site was completed somewhat later. Around the sites, preparations are underway for large-scale construction of infrastructure, deforestation and preparation of construction sites for facilities are being carried out, roads are being dumped, etc.
Judging by the pictures, since spring of last year, the presence of launchers in positions is not hidden from the Earth remote sensing satellites: masking devices are not used, launchers do not leave the position for the duration of the satellite’s flight. The total number of launchers on the available in open access satellite images, presumably, does not exceed four units.
To simplify the understanding of the location of units on the position:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3500658.html
GarryB- Posts : 38926
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But what do you think about 'military experts' labeling Nudol and S-500 as nothing more than ASAT systems?
Something that can hit a target in orbit and is mobile like S-500 and seemingly Nudol, could easily hit ballistic missiles too, which can be simply described as objects not moving fast enough to achieve a stable orbit...
Denial might help them sleep at night.
Since they do not hide the activity on the site, the enemy is already aware of what is coming from and where, especially as the Russian Federation warns it in advanc
An ABM system is not something you keep secret... its primary purpose is to introduce doubt as to the ability to achieve a successful first strike.
If you keep your ABM capacity secret, your enemy might believe they can attack first and cripple your ability to strike back to a few minor weapon launches that could be stopped with their ABM capacity.
In other words they might think they can take out most of your strategic missile attack capacity and have enough ABM systems to deal with any remaining capability you have... ie they might lose a city or two, but will completely disarm you and force you to capitulate.
When your ABM systems and air defence network and ability to launch a retaliatory strike in time so their missiles hit now empty silos and both sides get obliterated, saying I told you so wont be very satisfying.
Of course most of his missiles will be used to destroy the locations your weapons were launched from, while your missiles will be targeting his population centres so while neither side could claim to win as neither is likely to continue functioning as a country, he is likely to lose a lot more people than you are... in this case that would be to be expected as he has more people to lose...
Austin- Posts : 7617
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The expert spoke about the anti-satellite system "Nudol"
https://ria.ru/20190119/1549604707.html
https://ria.ru/20190119/1549604707.html
PapaDragon- Posts : 13264
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At 1:30 HOLY SH*T!!!
That sound is scarier than Godzilla and the speed, holy hell!
kvs- Posts : 15116
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Join date : 2014-09-11
Location : Turdope's Kanada
With the advances in solid rocket fuel in Russia since the 1980s, the launch speed is definitely faster than anything dating back to the 1960s.
This video is designed to remind the arrogant yanquis that Russia has the technology and the power.
This video is designed to remind the arrogant yanquis that Russia has the technology and the power.
GarryB- Posts : 38926
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Join date : 2010-03-30
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Such ABM missiles were always very very high speed systems with enormous acceleration performance... even in the 1970s they were eye wateringly fast, and today they will likely be even more so... I don't think this missile pictured is Nudol, which is the new missile... this looks like the older missile... A135... which as you can see is a very very fast missile on its own...
kvs- Posts : 15116
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Join date : 2014-09-11
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GarryB wrote:Such ABM missiles were always very very high speed systems with enormous acceleration performance... even in the 1970s they were eye wateringly fast, and today they will likely be even more so... I don't think this missile pictured is Nudol, which is the new missile... this looks like the older missile... A135... which as you can see is a very very fast missile on its own...
It is not clear from the video what the missile type is. The statement at the end of the video talks about testing the missile to confirm
its characteristics. This would be strange to say about the A135 since silo rot tests merely confirm missile viability. I don't like
this video since it looks like another one from several years ago with the exact same canister and probably even the same test range. So
the statement looks like a cut and paste on top of some old video, which is rather stupid. But the video is probably new since the debris
during launch is totally different as is the sound. So I do not think it is the same missile even though the canister is the same.
Hole- Posts : 10679
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It´s the PRS-1M missile for the A-235 ABM system.
GarryB- Posts : 38926
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I don't like
this video since it looks like another one from several years ago with the exact same canister and probably even the same test range.
That is my problem with this video... have seen it before and the missile cannister looks familiar.
The model for the Nudol seems to have two tubes per truck... which makes sense to me because improvements in tracking and guidance should mean the payload can be much smaller and lighter so a long narrow missile would be lower drag and easier to accelerate to higher speed and with higher energy fuel a smaller engine should be able to be used with a couple of stages extending reach up out of the atmosphere...
I am sure they know what they are doing and I don't expect them to show me any time soon.
The more they reveal to the west the better the west will be able to accurately estimate performance limits and determine countermeasures etc...
Even if they get it wrong by the time they will find out it will be too late.
Secrecy is better because they don't have to have false confidence that could end up killing us all... which is not to say they wont have blind confidence that American stuff will win in the end, but there should be a few voices saying dem Ruskies are smart and don't underestimate them...
Hole- Posts : 10679
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Nudol missile is tested from the launch vehicle.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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kvs wrote:GarryB wrote:Such ABM missiles were always very very high speed systems with enormous acceleration performance... even in the 1970s they were eye wateringly fast, and today they will likely be even more so... I don't think this missile pictured is Nudol, which is the new missile... this looks like the older missile... A135... which as you can see is a very very fast missile on its own...
It is not clear from the video what the missile type is. The statement at the end of the video talks about testing the missile to confirm
its characteristics. This would be strange to say about the A135 since silo rot tests merely confirm missile viability. I don't like
this video since it looks like another one from several years ago with the exact same canister and probably even the same test range. So
the statement looks like a cut and paste on top of some old video, which is rather stupid. But the video is probably new since the debris
during launch is totally different as is the sound. So I do not think it is the same missile even though the canister is the same.
Lets compare the two videos
The old video:
The new video:
It's hard to say. The initial acceleration in both videos are really fast, the second stage in the first video at the 4 second mark is extremely fast, however we didn't see that part in the new video. The video from MOD seems really ambiguous.
kvs- Posts : 15116
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I guess there is a contradiction in objectives. One is to let the yanquis know that Russia is not some pushover. The other is to hide
top secret missile characteristics. So you get these ambiguous videos that don't seem to send as strong of a message as they should.
But at least the yanquis know that Russia is testing ABM missiles and can afford to do so. Lots of retards in the US hierarchy still think
Russia is a banana republic since the ruble is "not worth anything". Another aspect is the way an expert would see this missile test.
I think that the more intense debris field indicates a higher energy launch. We do not really see this well, but it must be the case.
I think that the Kinzhal tells us that Russian solid rocket fuel tech has leveled up and so the A-135 will get a faster and more powerful
successor.
top secret missile characteristics. So you get these ambiguous videos that don't seem to send as strong of a message as they should.
But at least the yanquis know that Russia is testing ABM missiles and can afford to do so. Lots of retards in the US hierarchy still think
Russia is a banana republic since the ruble is "not worth anything". Another aspect is the way an expert would see this missile test.
I think that the more intense debris field indicates a higher energy launch. We do not really see this well, but it must be the case.
I think that the Kinzhal tells us that Russian solid rocket fuel tech has leveled up and so the A-135 will get a faster and more powerful
successor.
GarryB- Posts : 38926
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But at least the yanquis know that Russia is testing ABM missiles and can afford to do so. <snip> I think that the Kinzhal tells us that Russian solid rocket fuel tech has leveled up and so the A-135 will get a faster and more powerful
successor.
Well what it might show is that the Russians have had an ABM system operating around moscow for the last 45-50 years and it seems to be able to do its job, but new developments in scramjet technology might effect things... a vertical launch up through the atmosphere is one thing but a launch sideways at a target that might be 1,000km away could use a scramjet motor to fly the distance within the atmosphere rather high up at rather high speeds... this offers potentially enormous range for SAMs of the future and indeed AAMs of the future too... jet engine range with rocket engine speeds...
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