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    A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:47 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:All this talk about Russia being second to China in its ASAT capability is rather amusing.

    Russia daily demonstrates its ability to intercept a 430km high, 7.6 km/s target.

    China wishes it were even in the same league as Russia in this field.

    ...Seriously, the USSR was the first nation to carry out ASAT tests back in the early 1970's, then the US carried out it's first ASAT tests back in the mid-1980's, then China conducted there first ASAT test in......2007, more than 4 decades after Russia had the ability.

    The problem is that people thought Russia lost that ability.  It wasn't that they lost it, it is just that they knew their systems worked for so long that there was no need to test it.  Essentially, this Nudal is really just a newer system.  And Artjohm is correct, it is actually tied to the missile defense system program.  Essentially, this may very well be an addition to S-500.  But seems to be tied to A-135 missile defense systems.  So they needed to test it out, and so they did, and apparently was a success.  So this is just a new move to a different system.  Part of the aerospace defense as a whole.  The old systems are more than likely still in place.

    A-235 not A-135, as that is leaving service, plus it has nothing to do with losing the ability, it's just journalists being lazy and sloppy, BTW Russia had worked on ASAT LEO objects in the 90's/00's using the strategic interceptor Mig-31. The S-500 will at least have ASAT for LEO orbit, Nudol/A-235 may surpass that, but like you said it's part of the aerospace strategy, there's even talk of developing a S-500 missile for air-launched ABM, using strategic interceptors.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  max steel on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:04 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:All this talk about Russia being second to China in its ASAT capability is rather amusing.

    Russia daily demonstrates its ability to intercept a 430km high, 7.6 km/s target.

    China wishes it were even in the same league as Russia in this field.


    No one is saying Russia is behind them in ASAT weapons tech. Cool

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  x_54_u43 on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:07 pm

    max steel wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:All this talk about Russia being second to China in its ASAT capability is rather amusing.

    Russia daily demonstrates its ability to intercept a 430km high, 7.6 km/s target.

    China wishes it were even in the same league as Russia in this field.


    No one is saying Russia is behind them in ASAT weapons tech. Cool

    I was referring to the article which stated Russia had tested ASAT after China Cool

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  max steel on Sat May 14, 2016 2:01 am

    Three tests of a 14Ts033 (14Ц033) system, which is apparently the designation of the entire system (rather than 14А042, which appears to be the missile). There were three test launches - on 12 August 2014, 22 April 2015, and 18 November 2015. Only the third one was successful (although none of them involved an intercept the tests do not involve a kill vehicle - these are tests of the launcher.).

    The April 22, 2015 test was, in fact, reported at the time - as a failed test of a missile for the Antey-2500 air defense system. The missile was said to fail shortly after launch and all the debris landed within the perimeter of the test site.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 14, 2016 3:41 am

    Interesting. So there is a possibility that they may convert the S-300V to be able to operate anti sat capabilities as well?

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 14, 2016 5:59 am

    sepheronx wrote:Interesting.  So there is a possibility that they may convert the S-300V to be able to operate anti sat capabilities as well?

    I speculated in the past that some of the S-500's missile variants may find their way to older systems, after modernization of course. Both S-300V4 and S-400 have max ranges of 400 km, so it's not totally impossible that newer missiles will push the envelope from 400 km to 600 km with compatibility and necessary modification/modernization.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  zg18 on Fri May 27, 2016 5:52 pm

    US confirms new successful test of Nudol ASAT missile

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-flight-tests-anti-satellite-missile/

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  max steel on Fri May 27, 2016 9:00 pm

    Can new Nudol ASAT destroy GEO based satellites ?

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri May 27, 2016 9:56 pm

    zg18 wrote:US confirms new successful test of Nudol ASAT missile

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-flight-tests-anti-satellite-missile/

    Pay serious attention how they (neo-cons) keep referring to Nudol/A-235 as simply an ASAT system as opposed to a Anti-ICBM ABM with additional ASAT capability...this is grade A black propaganda, because once the average Joe neo-con realizes that Russia is putting 2 different Anti-ICBM ABM's in to service (S-500, Nudol/A-235) in the same time frame and NATO will have no Anti-ICBM system in service, they'd be far more hesitant to push the ABM Meatshield in Europe.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  zg18 on Fri May 27, 2016 10:01 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    zg18 wrote:US confirms new successful test of Nudol ASAT missile

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-flight-tests-anti-satellite-missile/

    Pay serious attention how they (neo-cons) keep referring to Nudol/A-235 as simply an ASAT system as opposed to a Anti-ICBM ABM with additional ASAT capability...this is grade A black propaganda, because once the average Joe neo-con realizes that Russia is putting 2 different Anti-ICBM ABM's in to service (S-500, Nudol/A-235) in the same time frame and NATO will have no Anti-ICBM system in service, they'd be far more hesitant to push the ABM Meatshield in Europe.

    Agreed, Russia made good decision to keep advancing in key area it has considerable edge over US.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  George1 on Sun May 29, 2016 2:48 pm

    Russia conducted another test of the Nudol ASAT system on Wednesday, May 25, 2016. The test is said to be successful.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1924797.html


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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue May 31, 2016 1:46 pm


    Article on A-235 with some detail useful for Austin and its interst/doubts Wink




    http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/149632/

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 31, 2016 7:08 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Article on A-235 with some detail useful for Austin and its  interst/doubts  Wink




    http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/149632/

    Holy crap, there's some serious jewels in that article:

    "Expert Council member board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, the chief editor of "Arsenal Fatherland" Viktor Murakhovski:  Given that the mutual speed of interception will be, probably, more than 10 kilometers per second (or close to this figure), here to destroy even the explosive is required."

    I might be confused, but its either the speed of the target being intercepted, or the minimum flight-speed of A-235 is 10 km/sec?!?! That speed of 10 km/sec translates to approximately Mach 30, the use of "mutual speed of interception" suggests that the A-235 fly's at Mach 30 speed as well. Either way US/UK based neo-cons truly screwed up now!

    Furthermore, Mindstorm do you have any new information concerning the truck based ROFAR OTH radars being developed by KRET? I suspect A-235/Nudol's radar sets maybe based off ROFAR technology, as it's the only type of radar technology capable of allowing A-235/Nudol complex to perform at it's maximum capability.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:13 am

    Given that the mutual speed of interception will be, probably, more than 10 kilometers per second (or close to this figure), here to destroy even the explosive is required."

    I think he means closing speed... ie impact speed = speed of S-500 + incoming threat speed.

    As the target speed is at most 7km per second this means the speed of the S-500 interceptor is at least 3km/s and likely rather more because the impact speed will be more than 10km per second.


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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:10 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Article on A-235 with some detail useful for Austin and its  interst/doubts  Wink




    http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/149632/

    Very Interesting , Thanks Mindstorm.

    So A-235 is like mobile GBD system which is great thing in itself , Can intercept ICBM target in midcourse and altitude at 650 -700 km in Height , typical height of Sun-Synchronus orbit and above LEO orbit

    Lets see what comes out , Right now I find S-500 very impressive for what it can do

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Given that the mutual speed of interception will be, probably, more than 10 kilometers per second (or close to this figure), here to destroy even the explosive is required."

    I think he means closing speed... ie impact speed = speed of S-500 + incoming threat speed.

    As the target speed is at most 7km per second this means the speed of the S-500 interceptor is at least 3km/s and likely rather more because the impact speed will be more than 10km per second.

    Well if that's the case then the word 'mutual' wouldn't be used then and he would of used the word 'combined' instead, and why would A-235 have the same characteristics as S-500 when it's designed to have a higher capability? For that  matter the 3 km/s figure that you just threw out there is only slightly faster than 48N6E2, 48N6DM/48N6E3 missiles for the S-400, which fly at 2 km/sec...we are talking about A-235/Nudol here right? BTW having a interceptor with at least 10km/sec speed would make sense in the long run to counter-balance any enemies future developments in boost-glide hypersonic vehicles...as the increased maneuverability would require faster speeds on behalf of the interceptor to maintain any successful engagement capability.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  kvs on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:13 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Given that the mutual speed of interception will be, probably, more than 10 kilometers per second (or close to this figure), here to destroy even the explosive is required."

    I think he means closing speed... ie impact speed = speed of S-500 + incoming threat speed.

    As the target speed is at most 7km per second this means the speed of the S-500 interceptor is at least 3km/s and likely rather more because the impact speed will be more than 10km per second.

    Well if that's the case then the word 'mutual' wouldn't be used then and he would of used the word 'combined' instead, and why would A-235 have the same characteristics as S-500 when it's designed to have a higher capability? For that  matter the 3 km/s figure that you just threw out there is only slightly faster than 48N6E2, 48N6DM/48N6E3 missiles for the S-400, which fly at 2 km/sec...we are talking about A-235/Nudol here right? BTW having a interceptor with at least 10km/sec speed would make sense in the long run to counter-balance any enemies future developments in boost-glide hypersonic vehicles...as the increased maneuverability would require faster speeds on behalf of the interceptor to maintain any successful engagement capability.

    I second your logic. A 10 km/s speed would be the correct design target and not 3 km/s. Since the A-235 is a silo system it could be as big as needed to achieve such warhead speeds. Since it does not need to deliver a fragile payload to orbit it can accelerate like hell and be much smaller than a regular rocket or ICBM. The faster the burn, the smaller the amount of rocket fuel needed to reach the same velocity.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:06 pm

    Well if that's the case then the word 'mutual' wouldn't be used then and he would of used the word 'combined' instead, and why would A-235 have the same characteristics as S-500 when it's designed to have a higher capability?

    I agree that mutual is a poor choice of words in this case, but are you suggesting mutual means counting the speed of the interceptor but not the target?

    We already know the target speed is up to 7km/s, so the speeds of both combined that equal at least 10km/s means the interceptor must be travelling at at least 3km/s... that would make the combined speed 10km/s.

    For that  matter the 3 km/s figure that you just threw out there is only slightly faster than 48N6E2, 48N6DM/48N6E3 missiles for the S-400, which fly at 2 km/sec...we are talking about A-235/Nudol here right?

    Yeah... I just made that speed up obviously... I mean if the incoming target can be travelling at up to 7km/s then obviously to have a closing speed of more than 10km/s then the interceptor must be travelling at like a million miles an hour...  Rolling Eyes

    BTW having a interceptor with at least 10km/sec speed would make sense in the long run to counter-balance any enemies future developments in boost-glide hypersonic vehicles...as the increased maneuverability would require faster speeds on behalf of the interceptor to maintain any successful engagement capability.

    Lets change a word... instead of talking about a mutual interception speed of 10km/s or more, how about we consider it impact speed. BTW I would define the interception speed as the combined speed of the interceptor and the target... impact speed just makes that clearer.

    But can I ask... why does S-500 need a speed of 10km/s? Is it going to launch from Alaska and have to chase these targets down all over Russia?

    Looking at this image again:



    Note it says S-500 in the bottom centre, but if you actually look at all the vehicles pictured... from top left to right top to bottom we have S-350 Vityaz, Improved TOR on a wheeled launcher, S-400, the missile launcher in question, and bottom right we have BUK3.

    Maybe the S-500 is the system that is not pictured and this is a picture of all the systems that will support the S-500 in service...


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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:13 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:And?  We all have gone over the performance of SM-3.  I guarantee you Russia could have come out with SM-3 alternative very much earlier but it would be shit.  Actually, Russia already has an MRBM interceptor called S-300V....


    Nope, I just stated the obvious. S-500 is year behind SM-3. Performance-wise general info about fielded Sm-3 is out there.
    S-500 is not even fielded yet, both at land or sea.

    Then share the link what Almaz Antey is saying or MoD.  Yes, performance wise of SM-3 is out there.  And all its failures.  S-300V has been around much longer than SM-3 and is also capable of intercepting BM's.  It was fielded in the 80's.
    http://missilethreat.com/defense-systems/s-300v-sa-12a-gladiator-sa-12b-giant/

    Thanks Max!

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1689p75-a-135-anti-ballistic-missile-system#167215

    Gotcha, SM-3 is all failures.

    Not sure how old Army S-300V developed in the late '70s is relevant but OK.

    The problem with people like yourself, is that you compare a system that has real spotty performance to that something that isn't out yet and no official word on it.  Add to that, since we are on talks of ABM systems, you think S-300V which is an army system that was designed around dealing against BM systems, isn't somehow similar even though it came out much earlier yet you proclaim that a system like SM-3 is first.

    Don't digress and don't cherry pick here.

    No need to worry about me and my people, mate.

    Making the point of SM-3 being ahead of the game chronologically and with better specs, deployed, etc. is just that. You don't have to agree if you want. I feel S-300V is beyond the scope of our discussion.

    Also both of those last dos and donts are returned.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:58 am

    sepheronx wrote:Specs?  You dont know neither do I.  If you are talking about Block IIB, then that isnt out yet either.  Nudol compares more I would think.  And specs are one thing, real world tests are another.

    Add to that, by sounds of news on S-500 according to people here, it is more aimed at incoming targets more so than trying to deal with mid course.  Which makes sense since Russia doesn't have the luxury in placing such systems close to the enemy borders.

    I think he's talking about the block IIA:
    -2,500 km range
    -1,500 km flight ceiling
    -4.5 km/s (Mach 15.25) speed

    Compared to the S-300V4:
    -400 km range
    - ? flight ceiling
    -2.6 km/s (Mach 7.64) speed

    Based on these specs, one could see where kilo is coming from, but we must remember that the S-300Vs were made not just for defending against high flying ballistic missiles, but also low flying cruise missiles and aircraft's, while the SM-3, the S-500 and the Nodul are dedicated ABM systems, that's why the S-500 isn't replacing the S-400s.

    UPDATE: I knew i should have checked the previous pages, anyway Max post of S-500 specs:
    -600 km range
    -200+ km ceiling
    -7 km/s (Mach 21) speed

    Based on these specs and other sources, it looks like the S-500 is going to be something like an S-400ER (extended range), but with a significant emphasis against hyper-sonic threats, it looks like the Nodul is going to be there real dedicated ABM system.

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:58 am

    An article from Politrussia on missile defense: https://translate.yandex.by/web?url=http://politrussia.com/vooruzhennye-sily/kak-rossiya-laquo-nezametno-raquo-426/

    to compliment Viktors post:
    VCS successfully tested a short-range anti-missile defense system

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:30 am

    sepheronx wrote:An article from Politrussia on missile defense: https://translate.yandex.by/web?url=http://politrussia.com/vooruzhennye-sily/kak-rossiya-laquo-nezametno-raquo-426/

    Nice thumbsup

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:54 am

    Some recent construction activity at the Chekhov radar site near Moscow it might be related to (among other things) to the Nudol ASAT program.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/06/construction_at_the_chekhov_radar_site.shtml


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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:44 pm


    http://www.arms-expo.ru/articles/124/77265/

    A brief ,mostly historical, article on the first ASAT systems (with the first working sample and successfull space intercept by part of Полет-1 by ЦНИИ Комета in the 1968.)

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    Re: A–235 Nudol ASAT and ABM system

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:52 pm

    Nice reading thumbsup

    Russia Successfully Tests Short-Range Anti-Missile System

    Sponsored content

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