Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Share

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3189
    Points : 3317
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:41 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a Russian strike actually.

    Suppose it's 'good' news; at least we wouldn't know for sure that it was a mistake and not someone's idea of a litmus test for some further provocation.

    From you nothing will surprise me.. you are very quick to blame Russian government
    for anything before accepting any claim the west lies about anything that happens in conflicts they create . I still remember how you blamed Russia for the mH17 plane in ukraine. As if Russia did not have ways to know the difference between a civilian airliner and a combat plane. Rolling Eyes  Now the west claims Russia cannot know the difference between Raqqa and a military base
    of the Syrian army.  Rolling Eyes

    First of all - you're on my ignore list

    Secondly - the thing is, I'm usually correct. Not all of the time, but 70-80%. So if you don't like what I'm saying, you don't like the probable truth.

    Ta!

    JohninMK wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    ult wrote:I literally posted those videos 2 posts ago...

    Sorry I missed them

    Zivo wrote:

    I found the location of the strike at 2:15.

    Admittedly, I looked for it because I though it could possibly be the location of the US airstrike on the SAA north of DEZ due to the proximity to the river. Fortunately it was in Raqqa.

    Here to be exact, ~500ft from a mosque: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.921621&lon=38.978055&z=16&m=b

    Good work...seems like the right place
    A couple of times those sticks of bombs seem to land just a few yards off from where one might have expected them to from the layout of the buildings etc. Kind of what might be expected with dumb bombs designed for area bombing, even with computerised aiming.

    Hard to say. It might not be the buildings that they were targeting; especially if they were going for area damage against nearby personnel and equipment.
    Those bombs we see dropping are the lightest ones in service AFAIK; they are probably not going to be that effective against buildings (for which different bombs might be used), but will create a lot of fragmentation/shrapnel, and when taking into account their number - they will cover quite a wide area.

    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1302
    Points : 1324
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:55 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Just a reminder: Serpuhov and Zeleni Dol are to be commissioned on Saturday DEC.12. Both Buyan-M class...

    The amount and quality in force projection these little ships provide (when combined with Kalibr cruise missiles) is staggering. I can imagine their rotation in the Caspian can be fast and need be they can fire their ordnance/rearm/resupply in the less than 48 hours.

    I will use this as opportunity to add something about Turkey attempting to close the straits to RuN. This will have negative short-term effects on the Syria re-supply route, but nothing catastrophic, it will be fixed by e.g. getting 3-4 more ro-ro vessels (> 10,000t) and putting them on rotation from Baltic or Northern Fleet ports.

    But it will also have a positive effect too, such as

    > Russia already has Moskva out of the Black Sea
    > the Buyan-M if stuck in Caspian or BS can be useful from there (I know through rivers they can eventually reach the sea)
    > no other useful "blue water" vessels are in BS
    > Lastly, Russia can use a blockade as pretext to build a proper Naval Base in Syria, nobody will blame them

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3684
    Points : 3796
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:07 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Just a reminder: Serpuhov and Zeleni Dol are to be commissioned on Saturday DEC.12. Both Buyan-M class...

    The amount and quality in force projection these little ships provide (when combined with Kalibr cruise missiles) is staggering. I can imagine their rotation in the Caspian can be fast and need be they can fire their ordnance/rearm/resupply in the less than 48 hours.

    I will use this as opportunity to add something about Turkey attempting to close the straits to RuN. This will have negative short-term effects on the Syria re-supply route, but nothing catastrophic, it will be fixed by e.g. getting 3-4 more ro-ro vessels (> 10,000t) and putting them on rotation from Baltic or Northern Fleet ports.

    But it will also have a positive effect too, such as

    > Russia already has Moskva out of the Black Sea
    > the Buyan-M if stuck in Caspian or BS can be useful from there (I know through rivers they can eventually reach the sea)
    > no other useful "blue water" vessels are in BS
    > Lastly, Russia can use a blockade as pretext to build a proper Naval Base in Syria, nobody will blame them

    My bad, I forgot to mention that those two new Buyan-M ships are in Black Sea not Caspian...

    And new Russian naval base in Syria goes without saying.

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3236
    Points : 3360
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:50 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a Russian strike actually.

    Suppose it's 'good' news; at least we wouldn't know for sure that it was a mistake and not someone's idea of a litmus test for some further provocation.

    From you nothing will surprise me.. you are very quick to blame Russian government
    for anything than to claim the west lies about anything that happens in conflicts they create . I still remember how you blamed Russia for the mH17 plane in ukraine. As if Russia did not have ways to know the difference between a civilian airliner and a combat plane. Rolling Eyes
    Calm down Vann. You are not being fair and you know it. If you don't think that Russia is a untouchable beacon of truth, you have a lot to learn too.

    This have nothing to do with calm.. is annoying that every time CNN or Pentagon claims anything the usual people give credibility to their claims without any evidence. and give less weight to any allegation made by Russia military general command. It is absurd. Specially when we know how much the west lies. I guess they also believe Russian SU-24 plane invaded Turkey because erdogan says it ,and that Russia was to blame for its shutdown is totally inverted logic. No  Russia MOD already is saying their radars have evidence of 4 US planes were flying in the attacked zone of the Syrian army at the time of the incident. And the Syrian Army sources have detailed reports of how the whole thing began.. A coordinated attack by ISIS and some forums members lovely USA.  If anyone wants to know what happened in the attack on the Syrian base. the attackers knew very well were Syria supplies warehouses were located. it was not an "accident" but a well coordinated attack. So ignore the trolls in this forum that are always so quick to dismiss any Russian MoD military report and instead give more credit to anything Pentagon or CNN says and read here..

    http://syrianperspective.com/2015/12/syrian-army-thwarts-americanisis-attack-on-its-base-in-dayr-el-zor-as-russia-opens-two-airbases-al-waer-ecstatic-after-withdrawal-of-terrorists.html


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

    JohninMK
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3388
    Points : 3431
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:56 pm

    Interesting comment in Moscow yesterday that ZH has picked up on

    However, what was most notable in today's update by the Russian defense ministry was neither the news about the sub, or the second ship deployment, but what Putin told Shoigu during their conversation according to the Kremlin's transcript. Which is as follows:

    Regarding the submarine strikes we must, of course, analyze everything that happens on the battlefield, how the weapons acts. Both the "Kalibrs" and the X-101 rockets as a whole proved to be very good. This new, modern, highly efficient, and highly precise weapon can be equipped with both a conventional warhead as well as a special, nuclear warhead. Naturally, in the fight against terrorism that is unnecessary, and I hope there will be no need [to use nukes against the Islamic State].

    But, if it is.... which of course was the unsaid message: Russia not only can deploy tactical nuclear warheads to Syria overnight, but it may, "not now", but eventually be forced to use them against "the Islamic State."

    And just like that Putin hinted that the Syrian proxy war, as it escalates ever wider and drags in increasingly more countries in true "world war" fashion, may just have one or more mushroom clouds in its near future; clouds which will will target none other than the CIA's pet project designed to take down Assad - the Islamic State. We are not sure if this particular cloud will have a silver lining, but we are confident that not even Turkey will want to buy ISIS oil if it happens to have the same radioactivity profile as Fukushima.


    Kremlin transcript, sorry in Russian http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/50892

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-08/putin-hopes-there-will-be-no-need-nuke-islamic-state

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3236
    Points : 3360
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:09 pm

    on Another note.. people should be ready for more Turkey tricks.. I will not be surprised if they
    shutdown their own plane ,(In reality a pilot eject from an old plane they were planning to decommission), near Syrian border but on turkey side and later claim Russia did it.  This is something ,that erdogan could try to get more support from their own population and justify closing the Bosphorus strait or retaliate back. Or it could be a plane over the bosphorus strait and claim it was Russia manpad who did it. They have things already on place to make Turkey people
    believe that. False flag attacks is the favorite tool of Rogue nations to justify their hostilities on another country and or raise the public unity with the government.  i will be surprised if Turkey does not try a false flag like that ,before the end of year. Or maybe a claim that a cruise missile launched by Russia aimed at Syria ,hit a civilian town in Turkey. After that you will see the usual Trolls claiming Russia did it .  Rolling Eyes


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3684
    Points : 3796
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:12 pm


    So now every little Kilo class sub can qualify as nuke sub?

    Me like! thumbsup

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3684
    Points : 3796
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:15 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    on Another note.. people should be ready for more Turkey tricks.. I will not be surprised if they
    shutdown their own plane ,(something they were planning to decommission), near Syrian border
    but on turkey side and later claim Russia did it.  This is something ,that erdogan could try to get more support from their own population and justify closing the Bosphorus strait or retaliate back.
    False flag attacks is the favorite tool of Rogue nations to justify their hostilities on another country and or raise the public unity with the government.

    Meh, Turkey is roasting in the owen and Russia just keeps adding gravy and heat. Should be done by Christmas. Twisted Evil

    They screwed themselves over big time with that stunt.

    ult
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 621
    Points : 661
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:30 pm


    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3684
    Points : 3796
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:42 pm


    Russian Jets Carried Out 82 Sorties, Hit 204 Terrorist Targets in Syria

    http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151209/1031478684/russia-syria-82-airstrikes.html

    Russian warplanes have carried out 82 sorties and hit 204 terrorist targets in Syria in past 24 hours, the Russian Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

    "In the last 24 hours, Russian jets conducted 82 sorties against 204 terrorist targets in Syria, located in the provinces of Aleppo, Idlib, Latakia, Hama and Homs. Furthermore, 32 of the sorties were conducted at night," the ministry's spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

    The airstrikes involved Su-24M, Su-25SM and Su-34 strike aircraft carrying out missions with escort by Su-30 Flanker-C fighter jets.
    After the combat missions all aircraft have safely returned to the Hmeymim airbase, the spokesman added.

    Since September 30, Russia has been conducting an aerial campaign in Syria against the Islamic State (ISIL, or Daesh in Arabic) extremist group, which is outlawed in Russia, following a request from President Bashar Assad.

    A Russian Kilo-class submarine Rostov-on-Don located in the Mediterranean Sea launched a salvo of the Kalibr cruise missiles targeting terrorist positions, Konashenkov told journalists.

    Russian Kilo-class Rostov-on-Don submarine, deployed in the Mediterranean Sea, fired on Tuesday Kalibr cruise missiles targeting Islamic State (Daesh in Arabic) positions in Syria.

    The submarine fired missiles in a salvo from torpedo tubes while submerged.

    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4874
    Points : 4921
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:19 pm



    What people in Raqqa claim to be section of Kalibr SLCM from yesterday.

    ult
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 621
    Points : 661
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:31 pm

    Part of american rocket found at the position where SAA troops were bombed by an aircraft.



    http://lifenews.ru/news/174324

    Ivan the Colorado
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 794
    Points : 828
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Age : 20
    Location : Colorado, USA

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:26 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a Russian strike actually.

    Suppose it's 'good' news; at least we wouldn't know for sure that it was a mistake and not someone's idea of a litmus test for some further provocation.

    From you nothing will surprise me.. you are very quick to blame Russian government
    for anything than to claim the west lies about anything that happens in conflicts they create . I still remember how you blamed Russia for the mH17 plane in ukraine. As if Russia did not have ways to know the difference between a civilian airliner and a combat plane. Rolling Eyes
    Calm down Vann. You are not being fair and you know it. If you think that Russia is a untouchable beacon of truth, you have a lot to learn too.

    This have nothing to do with calm.. is annoying that every time CNN or Pentagon claims anything the usual people give credibility to their claims without any evidence. and give less weight to any allegation made by Russia military general command. It is absurd. Specially when we know how much the west lies. I guess they also believe Russian SU-24 plane invaded Turkey because erdogan says it ,and that Russia was to blame for its shutdown is totally inverted logic. No  Russia MOD already is saying their radars have evidence of 4 US planes were flying in the attacked zone of the Syrian army at the time of the incident. And the Syrian Army sources have detailed reports of how the whole thing began.. A coordinated attack by ISIS and some forums members lovely USA.  If anyone wants to know what happened in the attack on the Syrian base. the attackers knew very well were Syria supplies warehouses were located. it was not an "accident" but a well coordinated attack. So ignore the trolls in this forum that are always so quick to dismiss any Russian MoD military report and instead give more credit to anything Pentagon or CNN says and read here..

    http://syrianperspective.com/2015/12/syrian-army-thwarts-americanisis-attack-on-its-base-in-dayr-el-zor-as-russia-opens-two-airbases-al-waer-ecstatic-after-withdrawal-of-terrorists.html
    I'm asking you to be more reasonable and to look at all sides of the story. I am not questioning whether the VKS is behind the strike or not.

    If you want my opinion, I disagree with Flaming Python on this. The VKS is closely coordinating their bombardments with the Syrian MoD and it is not very plausible that the anyone on the Russian/Syrian side would give a massive Tu-22M3 the green light to level an area if it was not known what it was. This was repeated by the Russian MoD just minutes ago.

    The munitions used to hit the base were definitely small as KoTeMoRe pointed out, but if the SAA took a full rack from the Tu-22M3, the devastation would be even worse. There where not many impact craters visible too. Western munitions which might be responsible are the Brimstone, Hellfire, and SDB. Even the lightest JDAM variant would have caused far greater damage than was visible there especially with the direct hit on that vehicle (I compared what the Mk-82 JDAM has done to vehicles in the previous theatres). The SDB has been procured by the USAF but there hasn't been any indication I've seen of the SDB seeing use against ISIS yet. The Brimstone is currently deployed with the RAF. As with the AGM-114 being a staple of US UCAVs, but those UCAVs seem to be there for more reconnaissance as most attacks have been carried out by fighters. The lack of fragments is still curious. I'm suspecting that the RAF was the perpetrator. They also were operating around Deir-ez-Zor around that time of the attack. Of course, as always with these types of things, this is from what I can tell, I'm no forensics expert and there is a lot of information that I don't know.

    JohninMK
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3388
    Points : 3431
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:33 pm

    Someone, somewhere will know just by looking at that photo what the weapon was which leads to who launched it.

    JohninMK
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3388
    Points : 3431
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:16 pm

    Another Ropucha LLS has joined the Syrian Express. Last seen back in April, 127 Minsk has just gone north into the Black Sea. Their carrying capacity is just under 500 tons and space enough to fit 25 APC in.

    No 'real' warship has left the Black Sea for a while now.

    short_fuze
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 273
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2015-12-09

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  short_fuze on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:18 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Someone, somewhere will know just by looking at that photo what the weapon was which leads to who launched it.

    MS-3A fuze appears to be a Chinese mortar fuze.

    See download.cabledrum.net/wikileaks_archive/file/worldwide-fuze-identification-guide-dec-1997.pdf

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:39 pm


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:39 pm