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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

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    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:42 pm

    kvs wrote:Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
    You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts.   Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
    reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.  

    Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
    MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
    any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
    about evolution.  



    You are ridiculous. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm telling you that the photo is real. If you don't want to believe it - whatever, I don't care. I don't even need a picture to tell you that it has happened. And don't even start with 3d, wanna bet who is between the two of us is better at it?

    I'm Russian, half of my family is/was in the army, and when you start talking about "military or political justification" it only shows that you don't know shit about Russia or Russian army.

    No one in Russia gives a flying f**k. Waving the manpad isn't retarded. The political leadership will only give those guys a thumbs up. The only reason why Russia is freely travelling turkish waters is because they lost wars. So the only thing they can do is post angry rants in twitter. I thought it was obvious to everyone from Putin's words that Russia goes for escalation, and won't back down. I guess not.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:59 pm

    Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
    as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
    do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
    they will be a target of the Erdogan regime and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?


    http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

    The world is on the brink of a major conflict with Turkey and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war.. and not the time for tourism and even less to travel to the country most likely Russia will need to fight. No



    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Akula971
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Akula971 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:01 pm

    Vann7 wrote:


    Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
    as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
    do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
    they will be a target of Turkey and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?

    http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

    The world is on the brink of world war 3 and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war..
    and is not the time for tourism and even less to the country most likely Russia will need to fight.
    No


    Ahahaha funny that this came up. Kids and people these days dont care. 90% people dont care at all :DD We live in such amazing times.

    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:07 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
    as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
    do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
    they will be a target of the Erdogan regime and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?


    http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

    The world is on the brink of a major conflict with Turkey and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war.. and not the time for tourism and even less to travel to the country most likely Russia will need to fight. No


    It's offseason right now. There are a couple thousand Russians there right now, not 600 000. What will happen in the future is debatable.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Akula971 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:12 pm

    ult wrote:
    kvs wrote:Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
    You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts.   Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
    reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.  

    Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
    MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
    any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
    about evolution.  



    You are ridiculous. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm telling you that the photo is real. If you don't want to believe it - whatever, I don't care. I don't even need a picture to tell you that it has happened. And don't even start with 3d, wanna bet who is between the two of us is better at it?

    I'm Russian, half of my family is/was in the army, and when you start talking about "military or political justification" it only shows that you don't know shit about Russia or Russian army.

    No one in Russia gives a flying f**k. Waving the manpad isn't retarded. The political leadership will only give those guys a thumbs up. The only reason why Russia is freely travelling turkish waters is because they lost wars. So the only thing they can do is post angry rants in twitter. I thought it was obvious to everyone from Putin's words that Russia goes for escalation, and won't back down. I guess not.

    Its a fake. But Russia is just trolling Turkey HARD by saying - yeah that happened. Turkey walked right into it lol.

    Also about 'no new forces' at these bases - New forces include the 200 new VKS assets or anything apart from the 200 VKS assets ?? Or is it just temporary ?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:16 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
    as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
    do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
    they will be a target of the Erdogan regime and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?


    http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

    The world is on the brink of a major conflict with Turkey and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war.. and not the time for tourism and even less to travel to the country most likely Russia will need to fight. No


    Seeing how the shootdown was very recent, those are probably people who had previously booked and probably can't get refunds.
    Keep an eye on what happens in the new year...that will show proper trends, and if there is a dramatic fall or not.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:22 pm

    ult wrote:

    It's offseason right now. There are a couple thousand Russians there right now, not 600 000. What will happen in the future is debatable.

    Its offseason indeed..

    But is not the time to die.. either.  If the turkey regime start a major war against Syria and IRAQ
    or try to attack again another Russian plane or its warship..it will be war.. and all those Russian citizens will be "special guest" of the erdogan regime and used as human shields.  Which part of Russia not being far from a major war with turkey ,and Russian citizens being at serious risk traveling there. you don't understand?

    Turkey army is already invading IRAQ.. to block IRAQ from advancing against ISIS and IRAQ asking help Russia. and then you have now NATO bombing Syrian army military bases. So Reasons already exist for Russia to take things to a new level that will only lead to a direct confrontation.   Russians traveling to turkey now as Tourist.. will be similar as Russian jews
    traveling to Germany a day after NAzis invade Russia.   Against the possibilities a major regional
    war could start at any moment are not far.. all that it takes for a major war to start is a happy trigger pilot from Turkey or US coalition. Or a Russian pilot that lose the patience with them.
    THis means that a major war could be triggered by the decision of just 1 pilot of any side and this is working as intended.. Americans will like to see Turkey to start a war with RUssia. they have nothing to lose. and only it will affect Russia.

    Probably nothing will happen.. but the ambush of Turkey to a Russian plane was something unthinkable before .and now is history. So Russian citizens cannot take risk traveling to any NATO country controlled by US and even less Turkey.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:37 pm


    Did Erdogan Commit Political Suicide?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shahir-shahidsaless/did-erdogan-commit-politi_b_8727622.html

    Erdogan, desperate and angry over his losing battle to oust Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, ordered the shooting down of a Russian fighter jet. Erdogan has been actively pursuing the ouster of Assad since 2012, but Russia's recent intervention in Syria, in alliance with Iran and its highly ideologically and politically motivated proxies, has resulted in a serious setback for Erdogan's plans.

    Putin's determination to destroy Turkey's proxies at the Syrian borders and to thwart Erdogan's plan to create a no-fly/buffer zone in the area has derailed Erdogan's plans for Syria. Erdogan hoped to use the buffer zone as an operational hub aimed at bringing down President Assad.

    Russian attacks on Turkmen-dominated areas in Bayirbucak, where the Russian plane was downed, would also inflict serious collateral damage to Turkey. The Turkish government regards the area in north-west Syria, presently under the control of the Bayirbucak Turkmens, as an important buffer zone preventing the territorial expansion of Syria's Kurdish-minority militias, whom it regards as terrorists linked to the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

    Erdogan's objective in shooting down the plane was to provoke Russia into a harsh response. He hoped the response would bring Russia into conflict with the whole of NATO, which would help reverse Turkey's declining fortunes in the Syrian war.

    Erdogan's calculations went terribly wrong. Following the incident, Turkey requested an emergency meeting with NATO members. Contrary to Erdogan's expectations, although, members did not support Russia, neither did they wholeheartedly support Turkey. Many members questioned Turkey's action and, according to Reuters, "expressed concern that Turkey did not escort the Russian warplane out of its airspace." In a clear indication of the suspicion among NATO members regarding Turkey's real intention behind its adventurism, some diplomats told Reuters, "There are other ways of dealing with these kinds of incidents."

    Not only didn't Cold War II happen, French President Francois Hollande, who promised "merciless" revenge in the aftermath of Paris attacks, met with Putin and they agreed to form an alliance against Daesh (also known as ISIS/ISIL) in Syria. The outcome of such an alliance is that the "Assad must go" mantra will be overshadowed by the war against Daesh--something that Erdogan hated to occur. Erdogan's plan to bring the West and Russia into conflict became even more unattainable when France's move was followed by Britain and then Germany.

    Turkey also lost significant room to maneuver in the post-shootdown of the Russian fighter jet. Russia, by deploying the powerful S-400 surface-to-air missile system in Hmeymim airbase near Latakia, sent a strong signal to Turkey--a de facto no-fly zone already in effect south of the Turkish-Syrian border.

    Russia also sent Turkey and NATO a clear message by arming its fighter jets with air-to-air missiles. On November 30, the Russian Air Force announced that "today, for the first time ‪Su34‬ fighter-bombers departed for combat sorties with air-to-air short- and medium-range missiles.... The usage of such weaponry is necessary for providing security of the aircraft of the Russian" air force, the announcement read. ‬‬‬

    Moscow also authorized numerous economic sanctions against Ankara ranging from tourism to agricultural products as well as sanctions on energy and construction projects.

    Erdogan took a conciliatory stance after the incident. In a speech in Ankara, he said, "We are strategic partners ... 'Joint projects may be halted, ties could be cut'? Are such approaches fitting for politicians?" Erdogan even requested a meeting with Putin while both leaders were in Paris for the COP21 climate change conference on November 30, but Putin rejected the request.

    Russians launched a heavy campaign to damage Erdogan's credibility and reputation. Vladimir Putin and numerous other Russian politicians leveled accusations regarding Turkey's sponsorship and cooperation with ISIS as well as allegations of buying oil smuggled by ISIS.

    On November 30, on the sidelines of the climate change summit in Paris, Putin stated, "At the moment we have received additional information confirming that that oil from the deposits controlled by Islamic State militants enters Turkish territory on industrial scale." He even went further to say, "We have every reason to believe that the decision to down our plane was guided by a desire to ensure security of this oil's delivery routes to ports where they are shipped in tankers."

    In response, Erdogan said he will resign as the country's president if Russia provides evidence that implicates Turkey in any oil trade with ISIS.

    Later, Sergei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, said, "We have repeatedly publicly stated that oil from the IS-controlled territories is transported abroad, particularly to Turkey. The facts that substantiate these claims will be formally presented in the UN in particular, and to all parties concerned."

    Then on December 2, the Russian Defense Ministry held a briefing concerning ISIS funding. During the briefing, which included a PowerPoint presentation, satellite images, and videos, Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said, "According to our data, the top political leadership of the country - President Erdogan and his family - is involved in this criminal business."

    Antonov added, "In the West, no one has asked questions about the fact that the Turkish president's son heads one of the biggest energy companies, or that his son-in-law has been appointed energy minister. What a marvelous family business."

    On December 3, without mentioning specifics, Putin declared there was more evidence to come. "We are not planning to engage in military saber-rattling," he said. "But if anyone thinks that having committed this awful war crime ... are going to get away with some measures concerning their tomatoes or some limits on construction and other sectors, they are sorely mistaken."

    At this point, it is apparent that Putin's ultimate objective is to take advantage of the opportunity presented to him to severely damage Erdogan's name and trustworthiness, both domestically and internationally, or, even better, bring him and his regime down as a perceived power behind the extremists and the anti-Assad forces in Syria. This is in line with Russia's plan for realizing its strategic objectives in Syria.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:40 pm


    Off Topic

    Erdogan’s dreams of empire are perilous for Turkey

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/06/erdogan-turkey-russia-syria-foreign-policy

    The aggressiveness of Turkish foreign policy is something new. It goes back to 2009 when, at Davos, President Erdoğan insulted Shimon Peres, then Israel’s president, using the Turkish form of “you” that is normally used for dogs, and accusing him of atrocities in Gaza. That went down very well with his home constituency, less well with Turks who think about things, and it also went down well in the Arab world.

    Erdoğan was lionised, and cut a big figure in the Arab spring that followed. In particular he tried to bring about change in Syria, and was much put out when President Assad did not respond to his urgings for reform, a reform that would have applied some version of Erdoğan’s own “Muslim democracy”. Expecting Assad to fall, he did nothing to stop the civil war that then erupted, and gave a hospitable welcome to more than 2 million refugees who flooded over the border.

    He no doubt expected them to go back within weeks. They did not, and the Syrian mess has become more and more complicated, particularly by the emergence of a Kurdish entity on Turkey’s border. That entity could be a threat to Turkey’s own territorial integrity, given that south-eastern Turkey is largely Kurdish. The Russians then took a hand, directly supporting Assad, their man in the Levant, and driving his opponents back. And Turkey shot down a Russian bomber, an episode that from a Turkish perspective was utterly without precedent, even during the cold war. Where this will lead is anybody’s guess, but the consequences may be such that the framers of Turkish foreign policy will look back on the old days with nostalgia.

    When the country finally got its present shape, in 1923, there were all sorts of loose ends – the longest, and the one with a fuse attached, the eastern border with northern Iraq, ie Kurdistan. The British fixed that border in 1926 with their own oil interests in mind, whereas the Turks regarded that part of the world as naturally belonging to them. However, they accepted the arrangement, and until recently pursued a prudent foreign policy, on the lines of their founder Kemal Atatürk’s words: peace at home, peace abroad. No adventures.

    When Turkey did move forward, in 1938 over the Antioch area or in 1974 over Cyprus, it did so by invitation and with solid treaty-backing. Otherwise it was extra careful, especially where Russia was concerned. Although there were embittered Caucasian exiles all around – half of the urban population in the 1930s had been born abroad – Caucasus exile literature was forbidden, and a prominent central Asian scholar was imprisoned in 1945 for provoking trouble with Russia.

    The reasoning behind all of this was simple enough. Russia was hugely powerful, had defeated the Ottoman empire in a dozen wars, but had also played a decisive part in protecting the new Turkish republic. The Russians sent gold and weaponry to the Turkish nationalists, and did a deal over borders, in effect swapping Armenia for Azerbaijan. Later on, they swapped Trotsky for a shirt factory, and a Russian took charge of energy planning. In return the Turks sacked pan-Turkists from Istanbul University and imprisoned a prominent scholar, ZV Togan.

    That all came to an end after the second world war, when Stalin showed his teeth. He demanded a base in the Dardanelles and territories in eastern Turkey. The Americans and British supported the Turks, who abandoned their neutrality and joined Nato, having fought in the Korean war. They got Marshall aid and, given the enormous importance of their location, had a privileged position: thousands of students abroad, much help from the IMF, access to European markets and especially the German labour market.

    The Anglo-American connection has been very important in lifting Turkey out of the Middle East – it now has an economy worth more than any of its local rivals, and then some. Since the American alliance at least implied democracy, the Turks had a free election in 1950. And the government that resulted was the grandfather of the present one. It made whoopee with state firms, and ensured popularity by giving Islam positions that the earlier republicans had denied it.

    They had not actually persecuted Islam except in the sense that they stopped it from persecuting. “Houses of the people”, on a Soviet model, had gone up in the villages to teach literacy and healthy ways to poverty-stricken peasants for whom the imam was the natural guide, as was the priest for poverty-stricken peasants in rural Ireland or Italy. The 1950s government closed down the “houses of the people”, and mosques went up instead. There are now more than 80,000.

    A mania, yes, but at bottom not so very different from the Victorian church-building that affected every street corner in England. Rural migrants need a centre, and that centre can mobilise their votes. The interesting question in Turkish politics is the failure of the left to divert them from the mosque. In effect the army had to take the role of the left, with coups from time to time, ensuring women their rights, and making sure that education was not entirely dominated by Qur’anic recitation.

    There were (and, God knows, are) intelligent and sensible people on the religious side, and they know that religion should not be rammed down people’s throats. The real great man of modern Turkey is Turgut Özal, who outwitted the military in the 1980s, opened Turkey up to the exporting world, and created the (mostly) successful country of today. He had a strict religious background, but knew abroad (he had worked in the World Bank) and also understood that there would be real trouble if he pushed religion too far. He was part-Kurdish and knew that the problem there was that Turkey had allowed the Kurds to feel like second-class citizens. Above all, he understood the importance of keeping to the prudent tradition of Turkish foreign policy. He died in 1993, and no one has taken his place.

    Özal was Turkey’s Thatcher (they got on very well) and the 1980s release of energy has carried Turkey to its present prosperity – its businessmen all over the world, its airline maybe the best, its writers read, its government everywhere consulted. But politics being complicated, he did not leave a conservative block that would perpetuate his legacy. Instead, we have the religious AKP, with an all-powerful leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who has made it his duty to raise “pious generations” and who is helping his Muslim Brotherhood allies in the Syrian civil war.

    It is also obvious that Islamic State has had help from Turkey, since the overthrow of the defiant Assad is Erdoğan’s priority, although the vastly respected editor of the country’s most venerable newspaper has been detained pending trial for publishing the evidence. And then there are the Kurds, clearly getting their act together. They are, as their greatest figure in Turkey, Kamran Inan (an Özal associate who has just died), said, “a wounded people”, partly alienated from Turkey, and the rest of the world now sees in Kurdistan a possible solution. Erdoğan’s adventurism has been quite successful so far, but it amounts to an extraordinary departure for Turkish foreign policy, and maybe even risks the destruction of the country. How on earth could this happen?
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    The background is an inferiority complex, and megalomania. For centuries, and even since the Mongols, sensible Islam has asked: “What went wrong? Why has God forsaken us, and allowed others to reach the moon?” And now Turkey stands tall, a voice unto the nations (and Tayyip Erdoğan, from his training on the soccer pitch and a religious school, indeed has a voice, part uplift-sermon, part referee-harangue, though its rhetorical effect does not translate).

    Chancellor Merkel comes begging for help in the refugee crisis, and the Europeans shut up about editor-imprisoning. All of a sudden, they agree to change the visa system that humiliated Turkish businessmen and academics. The Americans can be managed. In the old days, Turkey had two foreign policies towards Washington, which controlled the IMF purse strings – “me, too” and “oh dear”. Now it is more likely to be the US adopting those positions.

    President Erdoğan sits in his Chinese-airport palace and sees himself as restorer of the Ottoman empire. In the Ottomans’ great period, the 16th century, Russia was just a sort of noise off to the north. But in challenging it, the good President Erdoğan will find something a great deal more formidable. In breaking with the traditions of Turkish foreign policy, he has forgotten that the death blows come not from the west, but from the east – Iran and Syria, the army of which twice reached Istanbul in the 19th century.

    Now it seems that the western powers will cooperate with Russia in tacit upholding of Assad, in pursuit of the greater enemy, Isis. In other words, Turkey might just be isolated. In this latest affair, is there an element of provocation – that if Putin responds harshly to the downing of his aircraft, the Americans will be pushed into proclaiming a no-fly zone behind which Erdoğan can quietly deal with the enemies whom he wants to deal with, the Kurds, who now amount to the main challenge to his regime? He has been immensely successful so far, but is this the step that will bring him down, as his tame central Anatolian constituency begins to feel the winter cold? If there is one lesson for a ruler of Turkey it is this: do not provoke Russia.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:59 pm

    I dont think its photoshopped, two famous spotters have their photos and 3rd noname party also released few better shots. 3 sources, all 3 photoshopped it? They could photoshop something far more convinient than that. And photoshopped stuff comes almost always from single no name source.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:59 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/defense/842057

    So Turkey resumes flying because they will hide behind American jets.  Not surprising for the coward Turks.

    That said, Assad needs to pressure Russia too on their anti ISIS coallition and state that US and turks are not welcomed in their airspace.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:07 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/defense/842057

    So Turkey resumes flying because they will hide behind American jets.  Not surprising for the coward Turks.

    That said, Assad needs to pressure Russia too on their anti ISIS coallition and state that US and turks are not welcomed in their airspace.

    Muricans in 1999. over Yugoslavia used few times civilian liners to evade detection by Air Defence. Most notable case when Russian negotiator Виктор Степанович Черномирдин came, F16 used his "shadow" to drop bomb on highly defended underground installation "Strazevica" in Belgrade, however it did not manage to destroy it, after all it was built to withstand much more than GBU-24.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Pirey on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:11 pm

    Syria: Ultimate Pipelineistan War

    Very nice read.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:32 pm

    ult wrote:
    kvs wrote:Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
    You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts.   Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
    reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.  

    Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
    MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
    any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
    about evolution.  



    You are ridiculous. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm telling you that the photo is real. If you don't want to believe it - whatever, I don't care. I don't even need a picture to tell you that it has happened. And don't even start with 3d, wanna bet who is between the two of us is better at it?

    I'm Russian, half of my family is/was in the army, and when you start talking about "military or political justification" it only shows that you don't know shit about Russia or Russian army.

    No one in Russia gives a flying f**k. Waving the manpad isn't retarded. The political leadership will only give those guys a thumbs up. The only reason why Russia is freely travelling turkish waters is because they lost wars. So the only thing they can do is post angry rants in twitter. I thought it was obvious to everyone from Putin's words that Russia goes for escalation, and won't back down. I guess not.

    Put a sock in it sunshine. Your retarded little picture does exactly nothing to make your case. The "black widow" in the faked Turkish "proof" that
    you love so much does not even look like a Russian. Maybe you can't tell the difference, but I can. This is yet another piece of evidence that
    this is a photoshop since they needed to have someone pose in the right position as a template. It looks like Turk because it is a Turk.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Solncepek on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:32 pm

    Russia has conducted first sorties from Shayrat (Homs) and Tiyas (Palmyra), its new bases in Syria. They are now officially operating

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:58 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Put a sock in it sunshine.  Your retarded little picture does exactly nothing to make your case.   The "black widow" in the faked Turkish "proof" that
    you love so much does not even look like a Russian.   Maybe you can't tell the difference, but I can.   This is yet another piece of evidence that
    this is a photoshop since they needed to have someone pose in the right position as a template.   It looks like Turk because it is a Turk.

    Wow. Some people are dense...

    First of all, the guy with manpad is standing in the shadow from the mast.





    He is wearing the new everyday uniform, without the belt as it should be "out of ranks".

    Here it is, Ground Forces, VMF, VKS.


    http://twower.livejournal.com/1794622.html

    Here is order no.300 on how to properly wear the uniform. http://twower.livejournal.com/1706670.html

    "Вне строя"


    "В строю"


    The marine is wearing Korsar-MP floating bulletproof vest. And 6B47 helmet.




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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:05 pm

    You omitted to mention the other photos showing the same scene from different directions, by different photographers. Difficult if not impossible to synchronise Photoshop in this case.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:10 pm

    JohninMK wrote:You omitted to mention the other photos showing the same scene from different directions, by different photographers. Difficult if not impossible to synchronise Photoshop in this case.

    Photoshop is out of the question. Not sure why some people still insist on that. 3 sources i know of, and 3 different shot qualities.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  ult on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:14 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:You omitted to mention the other photos showing the same scene from different directions, by different photographers. Difficult if not impossible to synchronise Photoshop in this case.

    Photoshop is out of the question. Not sure why some people still insist on that. 3 sources i know of, and 3 different shot qualities.

    Cause this people for some idiotic reason think that Russia did something wrong, and try to excuse it as a photoshop.

    It was intended signal. And it was received. And it's not the last one.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  BKP on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:04 pm

    OP by PCR:

    War Is On The Horizon: Is It Too Late To Stop It?

    One lesson from military history is that once mobilization for war begins, it takes on a momentum of its own and is uncontrollable.

    This might be what is occuring unrecognized before our eyes.

    In his September 28 speech at the 70th Anniversity of the United Nations, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that Russia can no longer tolerate the state of affairs in the world. Two days later at the invitation of the Syrian government Russia began war against ISIS.

    Russia was quickly successful in destroying ISIS arms depots and helping the Syrian army to roll back ISIS gains. Russia also destroyed thousands of oil tankers, the contents of which were financing ISIS by transporting stolen Syrian oil to Turkey where it is sold to the family of the current gangster who rules Turkey.

    Washington was caught off guard by Russia’s desiveness. Fearful that the quick success of such decisive action by Russia would discourage Washington’s NATO vassals from continuing to support Washington’s war against Assad and Washington’s use of its puppet government in Kiev to pressure Russia, Washington arranged for Turkey to shoot down a Russian fighter-bomber despite the agreement between Russia and NATO that there would be no air-to-air encounters in Russia’s area of air operation in Syria.

    Although denying all responsibiity, Washington used Russia’s low key response to the attack, for which Turkey did not apologize, to reassure Europe that Russia is a paper tiger. The Western presstitutes trumpeted: “Russia A Paper Tiger.” http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-shoots-down-a-paper-tiger-1448406008

    The Russian government’s low key response to the provocation was used by Washington to reassure Europe that there is no risk in continuing to pressure Russia in the Middle East, Ukraine, Georgia, Montenegro, and elsewhere. Washington’s attack on Assad’s military is being used to reinforce the belief that is being inculcated in European governments that Russia’s responsible behavior to avoid war is a sign of fear and weakness.

    It is unclear to what extent the Russian and Chinese governments understand that their independent policies, reaffirmed by the Russian and Chinese presidents On September 28, are regarded by Washington as “existential threats” to US hegemony.

    The basis of US foreign policy is the commitment to prevent the rise of powers capable of constraining Washington’s unilateral action. The ability of Russia and China to do this makes them both a target.

    Washington is not opposed to terrorism. Washington has been purposely creating terrorism for many years. Terrorism is a weapon that Washington intends to use to destabilize Russia and China by exporting it to the Muslim populations in Russia and China.

    Washington is using Syria, as it used Ukraine, to demonstrate Russia’s impotence to Europe— and to China, as an impotent Russia is less attractive to China as an ally.

    For Russia, responsible response to provocation has become a liability, because it encourages more provocation.

    In other words, Washington and the gullibility of its European vassals have put humanity in a very dangerous situation, as the only choices left to Russia and China are to accept American vassalage or to prepare for war.

    Putin must be respected for putting more value on human life than do Washington and its European vassals and avoiding military responses to provocations. However, Russia must do something to make the NATO countries aware that there are serious costs of their accommodation of Washington’s aggression against Russia. For example, the Russian government could decide that it makes no sense to sell energy to European countries that are in a de facto state of war against Russia. With winter upon us, the Russian government could announce that Russia does not sell energy to NATO member countries. Russia would lose the money, but that is cheaper than losing one’s sovereignty or a war.

    To end the conflict in Ukraine, or to escalate it to a level beyond Europe’s willingness to participate, Russia could accept the requests of the breakaway provinces to be reunited with Russia. For Kiev to continue the conflict, Ukraine would have to attack Russia herself.

    The Russian government has relied on responsible, non-provocative responses. Russia has taken the diplomatic approach, relying on European governments coming to their senses, realizing that their national interests diverge from Washington’s, and ceasing to enable Washington’s hegemonic policy. Russia’s policy has failed. To repeat, Russia’s low key, responsible responses have been used by Washington to paint Russia as a paper tiger that no one needs to fear.

    We are left with the paradox that Russia’s determination to avoid war is leading directly to war.

    Whether or not the Russian media, Russian people, and the entirety of the Russian government understand this, it must be obvious to the Russian military. All that Russian military leaders need to do is to look at the composition of the forces sent by NATO to “combat ISIS.” As George Abert notes, the American, French, and British aircraft that have been deployed are jet fighters whose purpose is air-to-air combat, not ground attack. The jet fighters are not deployed to attack ISIS on the ground, but to threaten the Russian fighter-bombers that are attacking ISIS ground targets.

    There is no doubt that Washington is driving the world toward Armageddon, and Europe is the enabler. Washington’s bought-and-paid-for-puppets in Germany, France, and UK are either stupid, unconcerned, or powerless to escape from Washington’s grip. Unless Russia can wake up Europe, war is inevitable.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/07/war-is-on-the-horizon-is-it-too-late-to-stop-it-paul-craig-roberts/

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:14 pm

    Not really possible to argue against most of what JPR says. Very chilling. We will have to wait to see what Putin meant by his words at last week's funeral.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:45 pm

    And what did Putin say?  The guy is showing that he is a coward.  They really need to go at Turkey after the shootdown of a plane.  Why should Turkey get a free pass?

    Russias show of weakness is already bearing fruit.  US increasing number of people in Europe, lost out entirely of Ukraine to EU and soon NATO withought doing anything (at least recognize eastern Ukraine you stupid fuck), and now US bombing Assads forces.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:46 pm


    Goodness!!!   pwnd   

    Investors Keep Pulling Cash Out of Turkey

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-06/turkey-s-never-had-it-so-bad-as-record-outflows-seen-persisting




    Hanging out with Russia make your balls grow big it seems...    Cool

    Iraq PM says IS smuggles majority of oil via Turkey

    http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-pm-says-smuggles-majority-oil-via-turkey-174734468.html

    During a meeting with Germany's visiting foreign minister, Abadi stressed the "importance of stopping oil smuggling by (IS) terrorist gangs, the majority of which is smuggled via Turkey," a statement from his office said.

    Relations with Ankara have improved since Abadi took office in 2014, but tensions remain over issues including the Syrian civil war, and more recently a row over a Turkish military deployment in northern Iraq.

    It is the latest in a series of accusations linking Turkey and oil smuggling by IS, which overran large parts of Iraq last year and also holds major territory in neighbouring Syria.

    Russia accused Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his family of involvement in the IS oil trade, to which he responded that Russia was in fact involved.

    Iranian media then picked up Russia's claims, prompting Erdogan to lash out at his Iranian counterpart.

    And Mohsen Rezaie, secretary of Iran's Expediency Council, said Iranian military advisors on the ground in Iraq and Syria had images of IS oil trucks going to Turkey.

    The US has meanwhile said that IS oil smuggling through Turkey is not significant, prompting Moscow to accuse Washington of a cover-up.

    Iran and Russia are open backers of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime, while Turkey supports rebels seeking his overthrow and the US has also called for him to leave power, but is more directly concerned with IS.

    Baghdad has close ties to Iran and is viewed as sympathetic to Assad, and various Iraqi militia groups have fought in Syria on his behalf, but Iraq has sought to avoid publicly taking sides in the conflict.

    In recent days, Baghdad has accused Ankara of sending troops to northern Iraq, where Turkey has been training anti-IS forces, without its knowledge or approval and demanded they be withdrawn.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  auslander on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:15 pm

    It is late June 1914, again. They never learn.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #6

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:15 pm

    JohninMK wrote:You omitted to mention the other photos showing the same scene from different directions, by different photographers. Difficult if not impossible to synchronise Photoshop in this case.

    You mean a small set of "photographs" from a small number of Turks. What is impossible to synchronize? If there was a single video then
    it would be convincing since faking videos is only possible in Hollywood fiction. To make these obvious photoshops more believable one
    would do exactly this, produce variations of the same fake from different sources. It's human nature to doubt a single source but start
    trusting multiple sources peddling the same lie. The science of propaganda.

    Turk sources cannot be questioned according to the consensus here. Motive does not matter, but crappy fake photographs do.
    Hmm, with friends like these who needs enemies.

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