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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

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    Hole

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Hole Yesterday at 9:48 pm

    Which ABM shield?
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Stealthflanker Yesterday at 10:10 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:

    Do you think it's probable for Russian ballistic missiles to break through European or US ABM shield? NORAD has been always pretty much impossible to penetrate for Russians.

    Just how many interceptors they have ? and how many targets it can be expected to handle.

    It's pretty much still a problem for both US and Russia to handle massed SLBM or ICBM attacks.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  verkhoturye51 Yesterday at 10:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Which ABM shield?

    Stealthflanker wrote:Just how many interceptors they have ? and how many targets it can be expected to handle.

    It's pretty much still a problem for both US and Russia to handle massed SLBM or ICBM attacks.

    100 Aegis ships, 1100 Patriot launchers, 30 GBIs. This month Arrow 3 deliveries started, it has kill rate of 99 %.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Tsavo Lion Yesterday at 10:44 pm

    Not all of those ships will be in position, the Patriots r not that effective, GBIs & Arrow 3s weren't tested against the real Russian BMs & their decoys.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Yesterday at 11:17 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:

    100 Aegis ships, 1100 Patriot launchers, 30 GBIs. This month Arrow 3 deliveries started, it has kill rate of 99 %.

    Patriot in KSA is intercepting some of "ballistic" S-125 Pechoras, GBI ? Arrow 3 like all from Israel has 120 % of interception rated. Wait wait but Irond Dome intercepted like half of Hamas BM-21 rockets...



    The GBIs have a 56 percent success rate in tests (ten hits out of eighteen attempts since 1998). Ergo, the chance of a GBI working is 56 percent.
    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-america-must-improve-its-missile-defense-systems-22986

    Well this was never tested against maneuvering target. Yes interceptors advance with time but Russian warheads too. Especially hypersonic 20Ma warhead changing course and altitude for kinetic interceptors is not that easy task.

    Avangrd, Sarmats or Poseidons were build for reason... Patriots in Korea/Japan or EU will take first blow from Kiznahls/Iskanders/Zircons
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB Today at 7:34 am

    Do you think it's probable for Russian ballistic missiles to break through European or US ABM shield? NORAD has been always pretty much impossible to penetrate for Russians.

    Yes.

    The new MARV warheads don't just fall, they manouver, so US ABM systems are no where near in a position to cope... especially when the first hundred missiles come via the south pole instead of the north...

    100 Aegis ships, 1100 Patriot launchers, 30 GBIs. This month Arrow 3 deliveries started, it has kill rate of 99 %.

    How many of those AEGIS ships are actually in a position to do anything?

    Patriot is irrelevant... we are talking about SLBMs and ICBMs... not SCUDS.

    And Arrow 3... is it called that because that is how many they will have?

    30 GBIs dealing with a thousand warheads and tens of thousands of decoys...

    Avangrd, Sarmats or Poseidons were build for reason... Patriots in Korea/Japan or EU will take first blow from Kiznahls/Iskanders/Zircons

    An airburst nuke in space would black out most radar for half an hour and render most unprotected electronics in need of replacement... and it could be launched over the south pole to prevent interception...

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    Hole

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Hole Today at 10:09 am

    There are around 20 Burke class ships fitted with the modified radars, software and missiles for the ABM role, rest is pure air defence. Plus a few rusty Ticonderogas.

    Patriot can only engange short range ballistic missiles.

    GBI system missed more than half of the targets.

    THAAD was never used, even against north-korean missiles flying above Japan.

    Labrador

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Labrador Today at 11:54 am

    Hole wrote:There are around 20 Burke class ships fitted with the modified radars, software and missiles for the ABM role, rest is pure air defence. Plus a few rusty Ticonderogas.

    Patriot can only engange short range ballistic missiles.

    GBI system missed more than half of the targets.

    THAAD was never used, even against north-korean missiles flying above Japan.

    Not only 20, 28 Burke Flight I/II plus the 3 new restart Fl IIA are ABM ships: 31 and 5 Ticonderoga : 36
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Stealthflanker Today at 12:04 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    100 Aegis ships, 1100 Patriot launchers, 30 GBIs. This month Arrow 3 deliveries started, it has kill rate of 99 %.

    Only GBI is designed or having any chance to kill ICBM's. So 30 GBI's is what the best you have.

    Those AEGIS's and Patriots and Arrows are NOT for ICBM's, they're at best used for interception of IRBM's.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  miketheterrible Today at 12:45 pm

    As mentioned, Patriot even fails pretty hard to defeat an old, basic missile that is less advanced than Scud C.  Then the fact that most Russian BM's were designed with a quasi ballistic flight path since Topol was created as it was becoming much easier to shoot down BM's flying at a standard ballistic flight path.

    A rated "kill" is best case scenario. Iron Dome also was said to have such high accuracy and turns out it doesn't. Not like Russian system would fair better. It comes down to that it really isn't easy to shoot down missiles and rockets. Now make them harder to track cause they don't fly at standard curve, then it becomes harder.

    Funny NORAD was mentioned. I can't say much because even my access to info was very limited due to fact my family member couldn't explain it without getting into trouble but stationed up in Dew Line in 1985 and job was monitoring Soviet bombers and nuke launches, I asked him what would happen if a Soviet nuke headed our way and his answer was "kiss our ass goodbye. Oh and we were not allowed to call home to loved ones".

    Both sides bluff. They really Trump up their systems greater than they really are. In end, we won't know cause both sides knows for fact that it would be the end. And in honesty, I rather live in fear but be alive, than be dead.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB Today at 1:21 pm

    Not only 20, 28 Burke Flight I/II plus the 3 new restart Fl IIA are ABM ships: 31 and 5 Ticonderoga : 36

    Yeah, but they are no good unless they are sitting under the flight path of the missile they are supposed to be intercepting... and even they they need to be watching for the target.

    Chances are unless there is a planned attack against Russia... in which case ships can be positioned and systems prepared, these boats wont be anywhere near where they need to be to be effective at shooting down ICBMs.

    Performance against BMs for Soviet and Russian SAMs is much much better because they have been designing their missiles to intercept BMs for decades... it was a primary requirement, while for Patriot it was never even considered even at the deployment stage let alone the development stages where much more effective changes to design could be made.

    Patriot didn't actually fail in Desert Storm... they were trying to use a an anti aircraft missile system against missiles for which it was never designed properly to do.

    Needless to say THAAD is not even as good as S-300P/V in some aspects, let alone S-400 or S-500...
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  verkhoturye51 Today at 7:22 pm

    GarryB wrote: especially when the first hundred missiles come via the south pole instead of the north...

    This is starting to be good. Russia will overcome 20.000 km from their mainland to US via south pole?

    The only theoretical way would be to launch missiles towards Mexico and than turn them north. But that's too large distance for ICBMs or bombers. The only option are three ballistic missile submarines of the Pacific fleet with max 320 150 kiloton warheads, which wouldn't exactly paralize the US. We have to take into account that some would malfuntion or be shot down.

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