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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

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    Orocairion

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Orocairion on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:03 pm

    Seems that the sail was indeed modified

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2978815.html

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    George1

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:13 pm

    The presumed appearance of the 09552 nuclear submarine missile cruiser

    Based on the results of the first publication on November 27, 2017, having worked with photo and video materials, the image of the SSBPP-09552 was slightly modified. What is interesting in general on the appearance of the new project "Boreas"?

    - all-steered rudders of direction;
    - "washers" on the rear horizontal rudders;
    - in the "washers" the exhaust path of the extension antenna GAS and, possibly, the antenna of the communication system;
    - The increased size (in comparison with ПЛАРБ пр.955) the propeller;
    - the modified structure of the hull (due to the fact that the elements of the submarine are not used pr.971);
    - the modified design of the fencing of sliding devices ("felling") - is probably caused by world experience and more modern research of the flow around objects;
    - Side torpedo tubes (presumably);
    - The new SAC.

    Of course, I will post more clarification because it is necessary to give due tribute to the regime - there are practically no interesting and complete images of the boat on the network.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2978556.html


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:34 pm

    More on the tail section: http://www.janes.com/article/75992/images-of-russian-project-955a-ssbn-reveal-design-changes
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am

    George1 wrote:The presumed appearance of the 09552 nuclear submarine missile cruiser

    Based on the results of the first publication on November 27, 2017, having worked with photo and video materials, the image of the SSBPP-09552 was slightly modified. What is interesting in general on the appearance of the new project "Boreas"?

    - all-steered rudders of direction;
    - "washers" on the rear horizontal rudders;
    - in the "washers" the exhaust path of the extension antenna GAS and, possibly, the antenna of the communication system;
    - The increased size (in comparison with ПЛАРБ пр.955) the propeller;
    - the modified structure of the hull (due to the fact that the elements of the submarine are not used pr.971);
    - the modified design of the fencing of sliding devices ("felling") - is probably caused by world experience and more modern research of the flow around objects;
    - Side torpedo tubes (presumably);
    - The new SAC.

    Of course, I will post more clarification because it is necessary to give due tribute to the regime - there are practically no interesting and complete images of the boat on the network.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2978556.html

    From the article:

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:52 pm

    More details: https://iz.ru/677556/ilia-kramnik/novyi-borei

    Arrow

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Arrow on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:00 am

    Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:50 am

    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?
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    jhelb

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  jhelb on Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:25 pm

    Popular Mechanic's latest article about the Borei class subs.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/amp13990706/russias-new-missile-submarine-sure-looks-familiar/

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:27 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.

    Arrow

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Arrow on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:41 pm

    Old USA Ohio SSBN 24 launcher 50+ ton Trident II Cool There were to be 20 launchers at 955A.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:52 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.
    To put few more missile tube is cheap.

    The missile itself is cheap as well.


    However the START set a limit to the number of SSBNs ( indirectly ,by defining the max number of warheads).

    The boreis with 16 tube can carry half of the warheads available under the start .
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:53 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?


    Mainly cost saving measure.


    How many torpedo tubes the Borei - 2 has?
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:58 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    Then the build time shouldn'tve been so slow. We expected a fully version that was better in all combat qualities than the original 955.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:04 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.
    To put few more missile tube is cheap.

    The missile itself is cheap as well.


    However the START set a limit to the number of SSBNs ( indirectly ,by defining the max number of warheads).

    The boreis with 16 tube can carry half of the warheads available under the start .

    Nobody cares about START. And warhead distribution varies and it's always a matter of unloading stuff from boat to boat. Having a max of only 16 SLBMs to go can't change.

    With 8 SSBNs only 2 can be in the water at all times, with less than 8 there will be times when only one SSBN will be out there. Just one covering a country with the land mass and sea access of Russia lol1

    Hence Russia's problem with those few, weak-sauced Borei A, which seem to be as good as it gets for them.

    Overall, great job. Not.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:05 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.
    To put few more missile tube is cheap.

    The missile itself is cheap as well.


    However the START set a limit to the number of SSBNs ( indirectly ,by defining the max number of warheads).

    The boreis with 16 tube can carry half of the warheads available under the start .

    Kilo is just being fucking stupid again, ignore him.

    Arrow

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Arrow on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:07 pm

    Having a max of only 16 SLBMs to go can't change. wrote:

    The start allows for much more ICBM and SLBM than Russia has. USA has much more missiles.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:10 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    The start allows for much more ICBM and SLBM than Russia has. USA has  much more missiles.

    Bulava carries between 6 - 10 warheads.  multiply 16x10 and you get 160 warheads.  x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    But since you are too stupid to do math, lets do some more shall we?

    So if they go for 8 Borei's, then that is 1,280 warheads for all 8 vessels. Now lets see, I will be nice and state its 6 warheads so that will make it = 768 warheads on each vessel. Now they currently have active 6 Delta IV's and about 3 Delta III's. Both carry Sineva which carry 4 warheads (or 8 smaller ones). 16 missiles for Delta IV's.

    Wow, thats a lot of missiles.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:10 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.
    To put few more missile tube is cheap.

    The missile itself is cheap as well.


    However the START set a limit to the number of SSBNs ( indirectly ,by defining the max number of warheads).

    The boreis with 16 tube can carry half of the warheads available under the start .

    Kilo is just being fucking stupid again, ignore him.

    Not this again. Would you prefer your country having her 2 SSBMs on patrol with 16 SLBMs to go or 20-24? Because this is where Russia is heading.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:11 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Only 16 SLBM, old reactor.
    Its an improved serial build of the initial Norei batch, updated with tweaks. What did you expect?

    Then the build time shouldn'tve been so slow. We expected a fully version that was better in all combat qualities than the original 955.

    Well in all fairness the first borei's they used hulls from already partial made submarines. With the first borei 2 this is the first one they are building from the ground up.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:12 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    I don't think they'll go over 8 at this rate. But in any case. 4 boats = 1 in the water, patrolling.
    Think of warheads per patrolling boat, not overall. Add the possibility of one boat being on standby and that's it.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arrow wrote:

    The start allows for much more ICBM and SLBM than Russia has. USA has  much more missiles.

    Bulava carries between 6 - 10 warheads.  multiply 16x10 and you get 160 warheads.  x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    It can have also just 1 big. No ? The more of them there is, the less they are powerfull.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:13 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:It seems Russia is unable to produce well-armed SSBNs. 16 SLBMs is way too low, and that high number of torpedo tubes seems a bit useless. Also I'm not so sure about the procured numbers, way too low.
    Don't worry, their MIRVs, new sea bottom ICBMs & BM trains will make up for that!
    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-wants-the-strangest-all-weapons-underwater-icbm-23295?page=show
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%84_(%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0)
    The new trains will carry six missiles instead of three. A Russian defense industry official told Sputnik News in 2015 that the missile trains “will not need any specific big cars. They will completely coincide with the existing parameters of railcars and will therefore be completely hidden from a foe's reconnaissance and surveillance. Moreover, the system will enable launches virtually everywhere on the railway bed in contrast with the previous system that required special launch conditions.” http://nationalinterest.org/blog/russias-nuclear-missile-death-train-arriving-2019-19581
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:15 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    I don't think they'll go over 8 at this rate. But in any case. 4 boats = 1 in the water, patrolling.
    Think of warheads per patrolling boat, not overall. Add the possibility of one boat being on standby and that's it.

    They will cause they will have to replace the Delta IV's eventually and they expect to have at least 10 - 11 active boats.  Reason for 8 now (it was already stated that 3 more are to be purchased with GPV2025) is simply because Delta IV's are rather not old and still very capable, while carrying brand new Sineva BM's which I should add, are better than Bulava but that is for a different discussion.  They carry 4 warheads each.

    Actually, in reality, currently the active submarine fleet of Russia exceeds the allowed amount of nuclear warheads. That goes for the US as well. So instead, they either use BM's with single warheads or couple of warheads. Because Russia's ground based ICBM structure is rather being overhauled now and Yars is multiple warheads. Once they introduce the heavy ICBM, then it will make matters worst. START severely limits Russia in their nuclear triad capabilities because they have to be smart on how they will distribute it among the groups.

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arrow wrote:

    The start allows for much more ICBM and SLBM than Russia has. USA has  much more missiles.

    Bulava carries between 6 - 10 warheads.  multiply 16x10 and you get 160 warheads.  x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    It can have also just 1 big. No ? The more of them there is, the less they are powerfull.

    They can arrange the SLBMs and warheads however they like and still comply with treaty rules, patrolling SSBNs is all that matters. The rest of the boats won't be armed. START is not the reason for 16 SLBMs. Just an ill-thought design coupled with false expectations of expanding the Borei design to carry 20 SLBMs, which never happened. I guess due to lack of cash.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:20 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arrow wrote:

    The start allows for much more ICBM and SLBM than Russia has. USA has  much more missiles.

    Bulava carries between 6 - 10 warheads.  multiply 16x10 and you get 160 warheads.  x that by a total of planned 8 - 10 subs and that is 1,600 warheads.  Exceeding the 1,500 limit.

    It can have also just 1 big. No ? The more of them there is, the less they are powerfull.

    They can arrange the SLBMs and warheads however they like and still comply with treaty rules, patrolling SSBNs is all that matters. The rest of the boats won't be armed. START is not the reason for 16 SLBMs. Just an ill-thought design coupled with false expectations of expanding the Borei design to carry 20 SLBMs, which never happened. I guess due to lack of cash.

    Negative.  It is active.  Active is what matters in START and if a ship is still in port even without its missiles loaded, that still counts because of the number of missiles and warheads that exist. All 8 Boreis will be active. Just much like Delta IV's that are active are a total of 6 with 1 that is not active. Those 6, even if not "patroling" are still active as they can be loaded at any given time.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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