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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:14 pm

    GarryB wrote: I would think 10 missiles and two S-500s launchers would be an interesting loadout.... Twisted Evil

    sooner or later AAD missiles will be installed on subs and I am not talking about MANPADs. Now question what will be first? cancellation of START-3 or need to install AAD complexes o Subs

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_trafo on Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:36 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote: I would think 10 missiles and two S-500s launchers would be an interesting loadout.... Twisted Evil

    sooner or later AAD missiles will be installed on subs and I am not talking about MANPADs. Now question what will be first? cancellation of START-3 or need to install AAD complexes o Subs

    Doesn't make sense to put air deffence onto nuclear subs.

    Where is it getting the targeting data underwater?
    The airplane is allways in better positin to destroy a sub on the surface than a sub to destroy an airplane.


    They put air deffense onto kilos because they has to go to the surface to recharge the batteries.
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    Svyatik

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Svyatik on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:14 pm

    Regarding the news posted by max steel on the top of this page about the plan to launch a salvo of Bulava missiles a couple of months earlier, has anyone heard of the outcome? I've seen that announcement of the plan as well and so far I've not found anything about how it proceeded yet; no news, video clip - not even a VK group of Russian submarines enthusiasts that I stalk posted anything about it.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:32 am

    Doesn't make sense to put air deffence onto nuclear subs.

    S-500 has little to do with air defence... it is practically a mobile ABM system.

    On an SSBN it could be used to interfere with the US satellite array to weaken it ahead of an attack...



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    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_trafo on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Doesn't make sense to put air deffence onto nuclear subs.

    S-500 has little to do with air defence... it is practically a mobile ABM system.

    On an SSBN it could be used to interfere with the US satellite array to weaken it ahead of an attack...


    Still, who will provide the targeting data?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:15 am

    For satellites the same channel that sends launch commands to SSBNs could transmit details of problematic satellites that might need to be dealt with.

    Of course there are already widely deployed expendable sonarbuoys that can detect or help triangulate a submerged vessel... would not be that hard to develop a floating platform that could be released from submarine that surfaces after 10 minutes or an hour and has a 360 degree IFF system and IIR sensor package on board... any detected enemy anti sub helos would be real serious targets due to the threat they pose... and a medium range missile with Morfeis IIR seeker fitted would be a perfect match as it has lock on after launch capability, so the platform could detect multiple threats and several missiles are launched cued to turn to and acquire those targets after launch... while the sub itself goes deep and leaves the area.

    You could even containerise the system and push it off a container ship at sea to be activated by satellite over head when a US carrier group passes through the area...


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    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:07 am

    GarryB wrote:For satellites the same channel that sends launch commands to SSBNs could transmit details of problematic satellites that might need to be dealt with.

    Of course there are already widely deployed expendable sonarbuoys that can detect or help triangulate a submerged vessel... would not be that hard to develop a floating platform that could be released from submarine that surfaces after 10 minutes or an hour and has a 360 degree IFF system and IIR sensor package on board... any detected enemy anti sub helos would be real serious targets due to the threat they pose... and a medium range missile with Morfeis IIR seeker fitted would be a perfect match as it has lock on after launch capability, so the platform could detect multiple threats and several missiles are launched cued to turn to and acquire those targets after launch... while the sub itself goes deep and leaves the area.

    You could even containerise the system and push it off a container ship at sea to be activated by satellite over head when a US carrier group passes through the area...

    No argument about that it is technicaly possible.

    However launching SAM from an SSBN compromising it position.
    The SAM restricted in its use, you can use it against stationary/known position objects ( satelite), and the cost of carrying platform is extremly high.

    If you use mobile / ship platform that cost way less,and doesn't decrease the SSBN capacity.

    Russia is quite wide, from its territory/coastline is possible to shoot down practicaly every satelite in 60 minutes time, without the need to go to the deep ocean.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:15 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:If you use mobile / ship platform that cost way less,and doesn't decrease the SSBN capacity.

    It does because the Borei is already lacking a enough VLS tubes for SLBMs.
    16 is a very small number to begin with.

    For them big boys like 24-tube Ohios, this could remotely make sense. Especially when they're heading back or near home from patrols.
    Still the whole idea is...meh study
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:37 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:If you use mobile / ship platform that cost way less,and doesn't decrease the SSBN capacity.

    It does because the Borei is already lacking a enough VLS tubes for SLBMs.
    16 is a very small number to begin with.

    For them big boys like 24-tube Ohios, this could remotely make sense. Especially when they're heading back or near home from patrols.
    Still the whole idea is...meh study

    16 is more enough to turn any nation into nuclear dust, the next borei's will have 20 not that you even need that many ICBMs for one single nation thats just overkill.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:If you use mobile / ship platform that cost way less,and doesn't decrease the SSBN capacity.

    It does because the Borei is already lacking a enough VLS tubes for SLBMs.
    16 is a very small number to begin with.

    For them big boys like 24-tube Ohios, this could remotely make sense. Especially when they're heading back or near home from patrols.
    Still the whole idea is...meh study

    16 is more enough to turn any nation into nuclear dust, the next borei's will have 20 not that you even need that many ICBMs for one single nation thats just overkill.

    I don't disagree, just stressed that Russian subs were for some reason designed to carry only 16 or in future 20 SLBMs.
    Despite being as large/heavy as the older Ohios. So that doesn't allow for many alternatives.
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:03 pm

    USN likes to carry all its eggs in one basket which can be a disadvantage unlike Russia with distributed lethality of SSBNs.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:13 pm

    max steel wrote:USN likes to carry all its eggs in one basket which can be a disadvantage unlike Russia with distributed lethality of SSBNs.

    Afaik Russia only plans for 13 Boreis, incl. the 16-tube first batch.
    USN has 14, 24-tube Ohios with a further 4, 16-tube Vanguards by the RN.

    All that is in the water right now.

    So what about distributing lethality?
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:22 pm

    Borei class
    Typhoon class
    Delta III and Delta IV classes
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:33 pm

    max steel wrote:Borei class
    Typhoon class
    Delta III and Delta IV classes

    Oh I see, so that's 9-10, 16-tube boomers. Cool.
    Still yet to see the lethality distribution or plan of it thereof.

    Not sure if the remaining couple of Delta III or one Typhoon are active as rotating patrol SSBNs and not testbeds/conversions.
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:39 pm

    Instead of relying on one class of sub they have distributed nukes among various ssbn's ( distribution )

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:00 pm

    max steel wrote:Instead of relying on one class of sub they have distributed nukes among various ssbn's ( distribution )


    Cost benefit calculation.

    For a nucelar sub you need one reactor fore each ship (at least) and ful crew ect.

    Means if you have twenty sub with 1 rocket each, or one sub with twenty rocket then the cost will be say 10% less than if you use the former configuration.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:21 am

    Afaik Russia only plans for 13 Boreis, incl. the 16-tube first batch.
    USN has 14, 24-tube Ohios with a further 4, 16-tube Vanguards by the RN.

    Errr... more like 8 Boreis... with the total warheads allowed being 1,500 that means 500 per branch of service... 8 x 16 x 6 = 768 which is already too many...

    12 x 6 x 8 = 576 which is a much better number...


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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:10 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    max steel wrote:Borei class
    Typhoon class
    Delta III and Delta IV classes

    Oh I see, so that's 9-10, 16-tube boomers. Cool.
    Still yet to see the lethality distribution or plan of it thereof.

    Not sure if the remaining couple of Delta III or one Typhoon are active as rotating patrol SSBNs and not testbeds/conversions.

    The Typhoons have long been pulled from the active fleet, they no longer patrol carrying missiles and Russia is going to decommission the Deltas with each Borei
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Afaik Russia only plans for 13 Boreis, incl. the 16-tube first batch.
    USN has 14, 24-tube Ohios with a further 4, 16-tube Vanguards by the RN.

    Errr... more like 8 Boreis... with the total warheads allowed being 1,500 that means 500 per branch of service... 8 x 16 x 6 = 768 which is already too many...

    12 x 6 x 8 = 576 which is a much better number...

    Oh so it's just 8. Actually that's a terribly small number of launching platforms on patrol (say max. of 4 at any given time).
    Given that there's always a good 50 active USN SSNs out there. Not counting other NATO SSN/SSKs.

    Are the Delta IVs being kept online past 2020?
    Sounds like Russia is planning to give up some serious ground in the SSBN business.
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  max steel on Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:07 pm

    Russian Pacific Fleet to get Vladimir Monomakh nuclear sub before year end


    The Vladimir Monomakh Borey class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (Project 955) will complete the voyage to the Pacific Fleet before the yearend, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Korolev told TASS on Saturday.

    "This year, Borey will be there, like we have promised," he said.

    The Russian Navy has started receiving fourth-generation Project 955 Borei-class (Dolgorukiy-class) submarines recently. It has three of them now - the Yuri Dolgoruky, Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh. The Prince Vladimir is due for delivery to the Pacific Fleet next year. Four more ships in the class are due before 2020. Thus, the Russian SSBN fleet will comprise 15 submarines, if the Project 667BDR family is decommissioned.

    The Project 955 nuclear-powered submarine armed with Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles is designed to become the mainstay of Russia’s naval strategic nuclear forces for decades to come.

    The Project 955 nuclear-powered submarine can carry 16 R-30 Bulava solid-propellant intercontinental ballistic missiles with a range of more than 8,000 kilometers (4,971 miles). The Bulava intercontinental ballistic missile features multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles.

    The Project 955 nuclear-powered submarine is equipped with an escape chamber designed to accommodate the entire crew.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:10 pm

    Vladimir Monomakh begins transfer to the Pacific

    Vladimir Monomakh, the third submarine of the Project 955 class, is said to have left its temporary base in Severomorsk to begin transfer to the Pacific. It is expected to reach its permanent base in Vilyuchinsk in September. There, Vladimir Monomakh will join another Project 955 submarine, Alexander Nevskiy, which completed the transfer in September 2015. (Check Hans Kristensen's excellent post on the upgrades done at Vilyuchinsk.)

    Vladimir Monomakh was expected to conduct a salvo launch of Bulava missiles in June 2016, but it has left without launching the missiles. It is possible that it will launch the missiles from the Pacific, but maybe it won't - at the time Alexander Nevskiy arrived in the Pacific it was reported that it will conduct a launch from there, but it didn't.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/08/vladimir_monomakh_begins_trans.shtml


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    George1

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:32 pm

    The Vladimir Monomakh (project 955) sub has arrived at its permanent base Viliuchinsk in the Kamchakta Peninsula

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/902180?_ga=1.55173099.1337049799.1447427261


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:46 pm

    George1 wrote:
    The Vladimir Monomakh (project 955) sub has arrived at its permanent base Viliuchinsk in the Kamchakta Peninsula

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/902180?_ga=1.55173099.1337049799.1447427261


    Talking about Viliuchinsk interesting view.






    This is not for subs but please check sea bottom nicely deep after Kamchatka towards east.



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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:33 pm


    Eight Borey unit to be ordered called Prince Pozharsky

    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%8816/
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:46 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Eight Borey unit to be ordered called Prince Pozharsky

    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%8816/

    I hope they increase that number to 12. Eight is barely enough for Northern and Pacific. An extra four will allow them to keep patrols in selected seas like south Atlantic, Indian and Southern Pacific.

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