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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:30 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:There is an alternative view - that while current treaties limit the number of warheads, such a restriction cannot be guaranteed as the US could elect to withdraw from START should relations degrade catastrophically.  It makes sense to build SSBNs that can meet peace time treaty limits while only using (for example) 70% of total installed missile throw weight, and which have the option to sacrifice penetration aids to significantly upgrade the warhead load if required.  

    Cost is probably the major determining factor - ie which is less expensive?  Adding 4x tubes to 5x Borei Mk II (ie 20 tubes total) or an extra Borei Mk I+ with the system upgrades but retaining the original complement of 16 tubes?  I'd guess the extra boomer is a significantly higher cost? Plus the extra SSBN needs to be operated (extra crew trained) and maintained.

    Good point... There is no guarantee that START will still be "enforced" in coming years, so having more missiles with more warheads would be a huge advantage (if this were to occur). I personally think 16 is enough, and that UKSK could go where the other 4 missiles would be for self-defense purposes. What good is 20 missiles if you can't defend them!
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:22 pm

    The SSBN fleet is one leg of a nuclear triad that is supposed to be a deterrent.

    There is no point in making it cheap if it is also vulnerable because you only have 6 SSBNs... and at any one time 4 of them are tied up at the pier...

    In fact I saw one proposal to do away with SSBNs and just fit two SLBM tubes in each SSN and have them everywhere...

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:36 am

    That isn't a bad idea at all... It is almost guaranteed that the US/EU navies first priority is sinking the Deltas and other SSBNs. That way they couldn't tell the difference between SSNs and the "double SLBM" SSN.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:00 am

    Or they could make the 20 tube Borei's fitted with cruise missiles in 4 tubes, or dedicated Borei's with UKSK tubes in place of nukes, but could be refitted for SLBM's if relations (START treaty) break down.
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    Post  Vympel Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:13 am

    GarryB wrote:The SSBN fleet is one leg of a nuclear triad that is supposed to be a deterrent.

    There is no point in making it cheap if it is also vulnerable because you only have 6 SSBNs... and at any one time 4 of them are tied up at the pier...

    In fact I saw one proposal to do away with SSBNs and just fit two SLBM tubes in each SSN and have them everywhere...


    Well there's 10 Borei boats planned and the Delfins are planned to be around concurrently with them for a while yet. By the time they start building "5th generation" SSBNs the force will be healthy enough.
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    Post  Mike E Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:27 am

    "Delfins"?

    10 Boreis is great, especially if they do what Magnum just suggested...
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    Post  Vympel Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:29 am

    Mike E wrote:"Delfins"?

    10 Boreis is great, especially if they do what Magnum just suggested...

    Delfin = Project 667BDRM
    Kalmar = Project 667BDR

    and so on Smile
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:32 am

    That's right! I completely forgot... I'd rather have Russia scrap the Deltas sooner then later, they are really beginning to age!
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:39 pm

    The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.
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    Post  George1 Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.

    yes and most of them built in early 90s, they arent so old
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    Post  Viktor Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:17 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Nuclear submarine "Vladimir Monomakh" passed the test for silent
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:28 pm

    Great! I wonder if they are quieter versus the first model... - Being built in somewhat different ways on slightly different hulls, and now the addition of more missiles.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:30 pm

    They will not have 20 tubes, but 16.

    The information regarding the tube increase was later refuted.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.
    They may not be that old, but they might as well of kept the Typhoons and gotten rid of the Deltas... Either way the base design is aging.

    To TR1, where did you hear that? Even recent reports say the opposite...
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:32 pm

    What credible recent reports?

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:39 pm

    I could redirect that question to you... - I'll look for one.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    Well you have this:

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20130220/923813018.html

    vs some RT nonsense.

    Take your pick.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    My bad... Sources say otherwise... Embarassed
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:49 am

    Russia’s nuclear submarine Vladimir Monomakh has departed its port to hold a test launch of the intercontinental ballistic Bulava (SS-NX-32) missile in the North Sea.

    MOSCOW, September 9 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s nuclear submarine Vladimir Monomakh has departed its port to hold a test launch of the intercontinental ballistic Bulava (SS-NX-32) missile in the North Sea, a source in the Sevmash Shipyard told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

    “The nuclear-powered submarine, the Vladimir Monomakh, has left Sevmash, the ship has been preliminarily prepared, and it should return before September 11,” the source said.

    Earlier, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said that two launches would take place in 2014. The first would be from the Vladimir Monomakh in September, and the second would be in November.

    Bulava is Russia's cutting-edge intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM). Equipped with 10 warheads with a 9,000-kilometer range, it is even capable of withstanding nuclear attack.

    Test launches of the Bulava have been experiencing some problems. Last September during state trials of the Aleksander Nevsky nuclear-powered submarine a Bulava rocket experienced a malfunction. Following this incident Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu ordered to hold five additional launches of Bulava missiles.

    Intercontinental ballistic missile R-30 Bulava should become primary weapon for ballistic missile submarines of the Borei class (Project 955), which is intended to replace the Delta III, Delta IV and Typhoon classes now in Russian Navy service.

    The main submarine of this project is Yury Dolgoruky. By now there have been 19 test launches, with 8 of them successful, 4 partially successful and the rest unsuccessful. The last test took place last September in the White Sea.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:51 am

    Both these launches are going to be crucial.. Hopefully they end in success!
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    Post  Vympel Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:03 am

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

    The launch was a success.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:52 am

    Vympel wrote:http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

    The launch was a success.

    Excellent news!!!  Very Happy

    Edit:  what is this rubbish video on TV Zvezda?  Judging by the lack of a dense rocket plume that is characteristic of solids, I think they have used some stock footage to accompany the story...


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Vympel Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:01 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Vympel wrote:http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

    The launch was a success.

    Excellent news!!! Very Happy

    Damn right Smile
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:41 pm

    Vympel wrote:http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

    The launch was a success.
    This is HUGE! 
    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:45 pm

    Yury Dolgoruky submarine to test-fire Bulava missile with full missile set aboard

    Sponsored content


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