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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

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    Cyberspec
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:52 pm

    Away for a day and all hell breaks loose Mad

    It seems that the Russians let their guard down by sending bombers unescorted in border areas. There's some info that they believed Turkey would follow the rules of the Russia-US protocol on air safety (which US alies are also obliged to follow).

    Kadmos45 wrote:It doesn't matter what USSR did or didn't back in the 70's or 80's, we've got late november 2015,situation is different now and Russia response will be what Putin commands good or bad.

    Whether the response wil be weak or strong, it will have nothing to do with ancient geopolitical situation.

    Yes and No...you can't ignore historical context of modern day conflicts.

    Pretty good article explaining what's at stake and possible outcomes....those calling for immediate revenge and mass strikes on Turkish territory should read it carefully.

    Turkey hid under the NATO umbrella
    http://fortruss.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/the-motive-how-russias-enemies-benefit.html

    Firebird
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Firebird on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:57 pm

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/11/turkey-syria-diplomats-nato.html#

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/turkey-is-making-nato-very-uncomfortable-2015-4?r=US&IR=T

    This was 1 and 2 yrs ago. Reasons why the rest of NATO thought Turkey were pricks and it was time to kick them out perhaps.

    Surely the French want them out now?

    The only thing keeping Turkey in, is that America has done even more to support ISIS.

    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:02 am


    Swiped this too:


    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:05 am

    zorobabel wrote:A perfect outcome for me:

    SAA control of all of western Syria. The expulsion of all Turkmen from nothern Latakia. The establishment of a Kurdish autonomous region stretching from Afrin to the Iraq border in the east ruled by the PYD (PKK friendly). Clandestine support the PKK. The establishment of permanent Russian bases throughout northern Syria within several kilometers of the Turkish border.

    Your perfect outcome is pretty much a given after today, minus "inside Turkey part" but who knows...

    Only difference from previous given outcome is PKK part but that is now etched in stone.

    Kadmos45
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Kadmos45 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:11 am

    It's obvious that erdocoward will try to hide behind Nato from the start but he overcalculated.
    He pissed off too much natocrazies and Odumbo could care less about him, and will not cry if something bad happen to turkey , bar yankee forces there.

    Like i said NOONE will defend turks this time they pissed too many guys and tried get away with it.

    When it'll obvious that Nato wil not support them at all they'll start loosing shyt fast.
    Where are Nato condemnation of russian agression now - nowhere interesting isn't it ?


    BTW. This conversation between Hollande and Putin about Turkey will be really interesting Smile

    Zivo
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Zivo on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:18 am

    Don't underestimate NATO's support for Turkey though. They have no problem cuddling with Islamic dictators.

    NATO shot down a Russian aircraft, they're not friends, partners, or close associates. Russia isn't going to get any support from them, including the french.

    I think the best bet is to deploy S-300/400's and shut down Syria's airspace to everyone but the RuAF and the SAAF. The precedent for engagement has been established by NATO, let them deal with the consequences.

    kvs
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  kvs on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:29 am

    ult wrote:

    Indeed, the F16 was loitering waiting for the chance to pounce. No way was this anything innocent and baloney
    about "Turkey defending its air space" is retard-spew.

    Rmf
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Rmf on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:33 am

    that recent bombing isis oil fields ,trucks ,...campaign ,everyone has ""accidentaly"" avoided so far, done by russian expeditionary bombers , has had a big impact...
    not only trucks were destroyed- but now nobody thats still alive wants to drive that stuff trough syria..... the flow of oil ,weapons ,money has stopped completely.
    many turkish citizens were pulverized, ofcourse turkey couldnt cry foul because they would admit it is working with isis and their citizens are working with knowledge from their government, so they wanted retaliation.
    this was bound to happen , they got ok from usa ,and from a country-turkey that has violated airspace of so many countries so many times, greece, armenia, iraq ,syria...you name it....so no surprise there.


    Last edited by Rmf on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total

    Project Canada
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Project Canada on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:35 am

    I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,


    Kadmos45
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Kadmos45 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:51 am

    Zivo wrote:Don't underestimate NATO's support for Turkey though. They have no problem cuddling with Islamic dictators.

    NATO shot down a Russian aircraft, they're not friends, partners, or close associates. Russia isn't going to get any support from them, including the french.


    Nato is adversary of Russia this is beyond obvious and Turkey is regional enemy.

    But what i'm saying is that noone in NATO will defend Turkey militarly this time.
    Nobody expects Nato will start bombing Ankara for christ's sake .
    Russia dont need their support, it just needs them out of the picture for the time being.
    They'll not start WWIII over some crazy third world dictator who thinks that he can outmarts everyone.


    And BTW. France will be out of Nato soon when this joke of a pres will lose and LePen daughter win.


    P.S.to Project Canada
    They can talk whatever they want it actually would be really strange if they suddenly shut up, and when Russia will actually bite Turkey they'll talk even more, they love to talk so let them talk Wink

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:53 am

    Project Canada wrote:I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,


    Wait until tomorrow. This was Stoltenberg's prelim. I think NATO is about to get into cool down mode after this. And I think the Russians will say all it's forgiven quite rapidly. And the...fuck. The "Turkmen" commander, is actually a Turkish citizen and Grey Wolf member. So it is Turks that killed those Pilots. Holy fvck this this couldn't get more obvious.


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:53 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:[R73Ms entered production in late 90s and have been procured for RuAF since early 2000s in what numbers is questionable but they did and do obtain them, R27EA/EP have been obtained too, R77 was obtained in all variants apparently including -1 version lately. So its not like they still only have stocks of 30 years old USSR built missiles...many of them are probably even near expiration of their storage time.

    I have highlighted the bold part and I appreciate this answer.
    Thanks mate.

    PS. it is not uncommon to upgrade/rebuild missiles, ie fit new seekers on old stocks or add new propulsion (we do it in NATO e.g for AIM-9L or -P stock).

    Russia had to as R-77 was made in Ukraine and so they needed a newer missile without the PUkrainian's.  That said, R-77-1 is Vympals (well, united missile corporations) rendition with newer technology.  Things like Link 16 and all of that isn't anything special either as Russia has had comm system links between other aircrafts and air defense systems/radar for years.  As example a pair of MiG-31's flying at distances of lets say 100km apart, and 1 sees something 300km away, the other mig-31 will be able to see it and attack it too from the link from the one mig-31.  Such technology has existed for years and many newer jets have it.  Recent example is apparently the Su-30SM that snuck up on the American F-16's and surprised them in Syria and then the F-16's turned around.  They didn't use their radar (Su-30SM) but relied on other radar systems to be able to track them.  At least that is the claims I have heard.

    Even the latest Russian manpads Verba.. have networking shared radar technology lol1
    So Russia special forces can shoot at any plane without any visual distance of it , in fire and forget mode and the Ground Radars lead the missile to its target.. Verba manpads is like a
    portable mini Tor defenses. and their guidance use triple radioelectronic guidance and optics.
    nothing but revolutionary.  Probably thats how Novorosiya created a no fly zone in easter ukraine so easily.

    But yes Russia have Inter networked radar technology.  The only problem with Russian airdefenses in Syria however is that half of the territory is occupied by terrorist.. so it cannot
    create a bullet proof defense.. if depends only on long range defenses  and any airforce present to defend the airspace. and to make things worse RUssia only have one airport..so it cannot have a strong airforce to counter a major scale attack of NATO.. a bullet proof defense should have short range Pantsir ,spread in every place in Syria with mobile Buks and Tors defenses and with S-400s and with Antennas and Radars covering every part of Syria..and with Kret counter electronic jammers in every part of Syria to jam enemy signals..and AWACS support. and that backed by a strong big airforce..but such a network of defense is impossible to implement in Syria because most of its territory is occupied by terrorist.. So it have huge holes that can allow NATO or ISrael to penetrate defenses. In Crimea is a different story.. every corner is covered.. with something either EW or air defenses..and Huge ground Radars from Russia look at crimea airspace..

    So to defend Syria airspace better.. Russia simply needs to capture more land ,a lot more ,
    specially the borders of Turkey and Israel..to fully enclose the Syria airspace.. it will never be as powerful however as Russia can do in main land because Russia cannot deploy all its best technology there and allow NATO to capture its signals. For example Russia have no defense against ballistic nukes in Syria that comes from space. only in moscow.. and probably few other cities.  neither Turkey have such defenses. or anyone in Europe. unless it have Aegis ,Thaad .combo.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

    kvs
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  kvs on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:56 am

    Project Canada wrote:I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,


    They can stand with their dicks in their hands. Russia needs to follow the plan suggested above to reshape northern Syria as an
    anti-Turkish bastion. It should also make sure to bomb to pulp any dramatic invasion of Syria and Iraq by Turkish suppression
    forces attacking Kurds. Turkey has done this several times over the last 20 years.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #5

    Post  kvs on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:57 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,


    Wait until tomorrow. This was Stoltenberg's prelim. I think NATO is about to get into cool down mode after this. And I think the Russians will say all it's forgiven quite rapidly. And the...

    Russia has a whole world of possibilities to fuck over Erdo-turd-land. Making sure that Turkey never again crosses its border into
    Syria or Iraq will be a good start.

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