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    Syrian Civil War: News #4

    Dima
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    Post  Dima on Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:38 pm

    Some good news from the battlefront

    Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 5 minutes ago
    After taking control of Grain Silos north of Rasm Al-Abed, #SAA advance towards Humayma Al-Kubra taking Manasher Al-Hajr & Kaziyet Al-Kothar

    Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 7 minutes ago
    #RuAF carries out multiple airstrikes on the road between Azaz - Deir Jamal in north #Aleppo countryside Very Happy

    Hassan Ridha 37 minutes ago
    SAA captured production Facility south of #Kuwayres Airbase
    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 00Ab3

    https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha
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    Post  Dima on Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:39 pm

    Ivan Sidorenko ‏@IvanSidorenko1 24 hours ago
    #Syria SyrianArabArmy #Tiger Colonel Suheil al-Hassan
    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVFLqpHWoAEwvfG
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    Post  Bolt on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:15 pm

    The latest info is that Turkish stream is being put on hold, as well as plans on the atomic plant, according to Interfax.

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    Post  Monarchist on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:27 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Then they are showing their hand in reliance on Turkish money and so Turkey will push further.  Sanctions on Turkey are currently nothing. And you think Turkey will agree to all this?

    Something is really wrong with Russian leadership.  There has been not a single tough response to the killing of a Russian pilot and they hope to get a contract still for that pipeline.
    When I was posting about these issues already on mp.net about the situation in Novorusija you and other pro-russians all kept attacking me that I was trolling, trust Putin, he has a "grand plan" etc.
    Now we see the disaster in both Syria, eastern Ukraine, and Crimea. This blockade on Crimea could of been avoided if they created a land corridor to Crimea which they would if the Kremlin didn't gave up Mariupol to Akhmetov and other oligarchs.
    The personal interests of oligarchs and political leaders in Kremlin that have their children in the west are more important then russians, Russia's strategic interests etc.
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    Post  par far on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:11 pm

    Monarchist wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Then they are showing their hand in reliance on Turkish money and so Turkey will push further.  Sanctions on Turkey are currently nothing. And you think Turkey will agree to all this?

    Something is really wrong with Russian leadership.  There has been not a single tough response to the killing of a Russian pilot and they hope to get a contract still for that pipeline.
    When I was posting about these issues already on mp.net about the situation in Novorusija you and other pro-russians all kept attacking me that I was trolling, trust Putin, he has a "grand plan" etc.
    Now we see the disaster in both Syria, eastern Ukraine, and Crimea. This blockade on Crimea could of been avoided if they created a land corridor to Crimea which they would if the Kremlin didn't gave up Mariupol to Akhmetov and other oligarchs.
    The personal interests of oligarchs and political leaders in Kremlin that have their children in the west are more important then russians, Russia's strategic interests etc.


    The disaster in Syria is not Russia's fault, Assad was looking west for investments, Russian involvement in Syria came at a time, when it was most needed(it could have come earlier but Russia was involved in Ukraine) and Russia was still not strong as now. Eastern Ukraine will be like this for a while(I had to say this) because there is a trap set for Russia in Ukraine(the west wanted Russia to start a war in Ukraine not Syria), had/does Russia escalate the situation in Ukraine, there will be more sanctions on Russia(this is exactly what the Anglo Zoonsts want). Debaltseve Pocket showed them not to fuck around or something similar will happen again. There is no disaster in Crimea, all this blockade and electricity cuts mean, that they need to hurry up with, getting clean water, electricity, food and other stuff to Crimea faster.
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    Post  Neutrality on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:12 pm

    Monarchist wrote:
    When I was posting about these issues already on mp.net about the situation in Novorusija you and other pro-russians all kept attacking me that I was trolling, trust Putin, he has a "grand plan" etc.
    Now we see the disaster in both Syria, eastern Ukraine, and Crimea. This blockade on Crimea could of been avoided if they created a land corridor to Crimea which they would if the Kremlin didn't gave up Mariupol to Akhmetov and other oligarchs.
    The personal interests of oligarchs and political leaders in Kremlin that have their children in the west are more important then russians, Russia's strategic interests etc.

    Land corridor to Crimea? You're mentally ill, I don't know how to explain it to you otherwise. Let's risk WW3 just to suit you and only you, right? Hell, let's invade Turkey and occupy Istanbul while we're at it! You want a situation in which people, people who aren't you nor your close ones, bleed. Definition of a coward.

    This is the reason why you are posting rant stories on a forum and not at the steering wheel of the nation.

    What disaster in Syria? Didn't the Syrian Army start gaining territory after Russia got involved or am I blind all of a sudden? Donbass is alive and well. It will forever be an instrument for Moscow to use against Kiev as long as Kiev isn't willing to settle. Crimea's blockade? Israel completely sealing off Gaza, now THAT is a blockade. So please don't make me laugh. This situation with the electricity is temporary and is going to be solved very soon. The construction of the bridge is going well. The technical bridge is almost complete just FYI. While you're here whining about Putin's oligarchs and Kremlin's inactions the situation is getting better.
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    Post  Monarchist on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:29 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Monarchist wrote:
    When I was posting about these issues already on mp.net about the situation in Novorusija you and other pro-russians all kept attacking me that I was trolling, trust Putin, he has a "grand plan" etc.
    Now we see the disaster in both Syria, eastern Ukraine, and Crimea. This blockade on Crimea could of been avoided if they created a land corridor to Crimea which they would if the Kremlin didn't gave up Mariupol to Akhmetov and other oligarchs.
    The personal interests of oligarchs and political leaders in Kremlin that have their children in the west are more important then russians, Russia's strategic interests etc.

    Land corridor to Crimea? You're mentally ill, I don't know how to explain it to you otherwise. Let's risk WW3 just to suit you and only you, right? Hell, let's invade Turkey and occupy Istanbul while we're at it! You want a situation in which people, people who aren't you nor your close ones, bleed. Definition of a coward.

    This is the reason why you are posting rant stories on a forum and not at the steering wheel of the nation.

    What disaster in Syria? Didn't the Syrian Army start gaining territory after Russia got involved or am I blind all of a sudden? Donbass is alive and well. It will forever be an instrument for Moscow to use against Kiev as long as Kiev isn't willing to settle. Crimea's blockade? Israel completely sealing off Gaza, now THAT is a blockade. So please don't make me laugh. This situation with the electricity is temporary and is going to be solved very soon. The construction of the bridge is going well. The technical bridge is almost complete just FYI. While you're here whining about Putin's oligarchs and Kremlin's inactions the situation is getting better.
    Pro-Putin propaganda bullshit. The only one's that are mentally ill are people defending Kremlins cowardness whille Ukraine shelled and killed hundreds of russians while you were all hailing Putin's great wisdom. Instead of russian servicemen patrolling through the Odessa harbour, Kharkov streets you now have NATO troops in overwhelming pro-russian cities. Great success.
    The definition of a coward is being the supreme commander of one of the world largest and most powerful countries giving his word live on television that he will protect his people than just watching them to die, while giving free gas to those very same people.
    It has nothing to do with WW3 but the children of the so called russian elite live their pathetic lives in the west with money that their parents stole from the russian people.


    ps. sorry for off topic.
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    Post  Neutrality on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:51 pm

    Monarchist wrote:
    Pro-Putin propaganda bullshit. The only one's that are mentally ill are people defending Kremlins cowardness whille Ukraine shelled and killed hundreds of russians while you were all hailing Putin's great wisdom. Instead of russian servicemen patrolling through the Odessa harbour, Kharkov streets you now have NATO troops in overwhelming pro-russian cities. Great success.

    Yes, people died. In what war have people not? Don't think for a second that you're the only one who feels sorry for what happened in Odessa or for those who got shelled in Donbass and Lugansk. Point is that invading the whole of Ukraine would have played right into Washington's hands. Full blown sanctions would be just the start. Are you so dense that you don't allow the possibilty that our world would be balancing on a very thin thread after that? Russian people who live in other countries would be probably either blasted publically for supporting Putin or perhaps even lynched. People like me for example. Just like the Japanese were harassed and thrown into seperate camps in the USA after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

    Moscow took the best possible route IMHO. If you apply basic logic and geopolitics you should realize this. No one wants to risk a global war just so people like you get their power fix.

    The definition of a coward is being the supreme commander of one of the world largest and most powerful countries giving his word live on television that he will protect his people than just watching them to die, while giving free gas to those very same people.

    That gas has stopped flowing as of several days ago and coal trains have stopped too.

    It has nothing to do with WW3 but the children of the so called russian elite live their pathetic lives in the west with money that their parents stole from the russian people.

    Blabla. Typical loony talk.

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    Post  Erk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:58 pm



    South Front update.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:28 pm


    Off Topic

    @Neutrality

    Technical bridge to Crimea has been up and running for months, check out the Crimea tread, I posted loads of media there.

    @Monarchist

    ''...overwhelming pro-russian cities'' ??? In Ukraine??? ........... lol1 lol1 lol1 Razz

    Nations run on money not empty rhetoric, see USSR for example.

    This is why you are not in charge of anything...
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:19 am

    Monarchist wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Monarchist wrote:
    When I was posting about these issues already on mp.net about the situation in Novorusija you and other pro-russians all kept attacking me that I was trolling, trust Putin, he has a "grand plan" etc.
    Now we see the disaster in both Syria, eastern Ukraine, and Crimea. This blockade on Crimea could of been avoided if they created a land corridor to Crimea which they would if the Kremlin didn't gave up Mariupol to Akhmetov and other oligarchs.
    The personal interests of oligarchs and political leaders in Kremlin that have their children in the west are more important then russians, Russia's strategic interests etc.

    Land corridor to Crimea? You're mentally ill, I don't know how to explain it to you otherwise. Let's risk WW3 just to suit you and only you, right? Hell, let's invade Turkey and occupy Istanbul while we're at it! You want a situation in which people, people who aren't you nor your close ones, bleed. Definition of a coward.

    This is the reason why you are posting rant stories on a forum and not at the steering wheel of the nation.

    What disaster in Syria? Didn't the Syrian Army start gaining territory after Russia got involved or am I blind all of a sudden? Donbass is alive and well. It will forever be an instrument for Moscow to use against Kiev as long as Kiev isn't willing to settle. Crimea's blockade? Israel completely sealing off Gaza, now THAT is a blockade. So please don't make me laugh. This situation with the electricity is temporary and is going to be solved very soon. The construction of the bridge is going well. The technical bridge is almost complete just FYI. While you're here whining about Putin's oligarchs and Kremlin's inactions the situation is getting better.
    Pro-Putin propaganda bullshit. The only one's that are mentally ill are people defending Kremlins cowardness whille Ukraine shelled and killed hundreds of russians while you were all hailing Putin's great wisdom. Instead of russian servicemen patrolling through the Odessa harbour, Kharkov streets you now have NATO troops in overwhelming pro-russian cities. Great success.
    The definition of a coward is being the supreme commander of one of the world largest and most powerful countries giving his word live on television that he will protect his people than just watching them to die, while giving free gas to those very same people.
    It has nothing to do with WW3 but the children of the so called russian elite live their pathetic lives in the west with money that their parents stole from the russian people.


    ps. sorry for off topic.

    If Kharkov was so pro-Russian it would have rose up at the same time neighbouring Lugansk and Donetsk did. If Odessa was so pro-Russian its people would have done more to bring the massacre perps to justice than simply whimpering at home or blaming Putin for it all.

    Both cities have been extensively colonized by the raguls, and a good part of the young generation there have bought into ragul thinking.
    These cities are prepared to take it in the butt by those who seek to oppress them and disregard their interests the most. They are to blame for their own fate.
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    Post  Kadmos45 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:25 am

    Neutrality wrote:

    Land corridor to Crimea? You're mentally ill, I don't know how to explain it to you otherwise. Let's risk WW3 just to suit you and only you, right?

    Now, now, let's be serious here for a moment. What WW3 for christ's sake ?  Over Mariupol, Melitopol and Kherson ? There would be no WW3 even if Russia nuked Kiev. But for measly land corridor to Crimea it was actually expected by the west .
    When war in Donbass was in full motion ( when the wind blows) ze West was concerned about Russia not taking Kiev and further west.
    They never expected Novorussia will be so tiny in the end.

    @PapaDragon
    "Nations run on money not empty rhetoric, see USSR for example"

    And USA is run on what exactly ? They are how many times bankrupt looking by debt numbers ?
    And they run pretty well fcking everyone in the a. for decades.


    BTW. this and all those other posts are OT here and should be moved to UKR section i suppose.
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    Post  whir on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:27 am

    RT wrote:Russian military to brief press on counter-terror findings Wednesday at 12:00 GMT
    Published time: 1 Dec, 2015 19:48

    The Russian Defense Ministry has announced it will hold a briefing on new findings related to counter-terror activities at 15:00 Moscow time (12:00 GMT).
    Titled ‘Russian armed forces fighting international terrorism: New data’, the briefing will take place at the National Control Center under the Russian Ministry of Defense in Moscow. Both local and foreign media outlets are expected to attend.

    Tune in to RT on Wednesday to find out more.
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    Post  Guest on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:35 am

    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVK9rYtUwAEGmlV

    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVK9rcJUwAAGVNR

    Shots taken in Turkey. Who wants to bet 10USD who is the buyer?
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    Post  Guest on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:44 am

    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVLWMC7UEAAzvph

    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVLWMoSU4AEKVgb

    "Turkish aid allegedly sent to "Turkmens" in Latakia happily accepted by Chechen Nusra (Al-Qaeda) leader Al Shishani."

    Source: https://twitter.com/FGunay1/status/671834821094690816
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:45 am

    Militarov wrote:Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVK9rYtUwAEGmlV

    Syrian Civil War: News #4 - Page 21 CVK9rcJUwAAGVNR

    Shots taken in Turkey. Who wants to bet 10USD who is the buyer?

    I'll bet my last yen it is the moderates!!! lol1
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    Post  Neutrality on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:51 am

    Kadmos45 wrote:
    Now, now, let's be serious here for a moment. What WW3 for christ's sake ?  Over Mariupol, Melitopol and Kherson ? There would be no WW3 even if Russia nuked Kiev. But for measly land corridor to Crimea it was actually expected by the west .
    When war in Donbass was in full motion ( when the wind blows) ze West was concerned about Russia not taking Kiev and further west.
    They never expected Novorussia will be so tiny in the end.

    In what world do you live? Nuke Kiev without any reaction from the rest of world, seriously? The UN is up in their knickers when the North Koreans test nukes underground but nuking a city with a population of over a million people wouldn't be a big deal? As for the rest of your reply, literally no idea what you're talking about.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:45 am

    After decision of Reichstag Luftwaffe is going to fly Syria, Kriegsmarine will harbor near Syrian coast ! Wehrmacht not yet to be deployed though. Neither cooperation with Russians nor with legitimate Syrian govt.

    I wonder is they want a new "incident" ?


    The Ministry of defense of Germany will not provide RF data on flights of the air force in Syria

    http://ria.ru/syria/20151201/1333651220.html

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    Post  Kadmos45 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:50 am

    Neutrality wrote:

    In what world do you live? Nuke Kiev without any reaction from the rest of world, seriously? The UN is up in their knickers when the North Koreans test nukes underground but nuking a city with a population of over a million people wouldn't be a big deal?

    Who the hell said it wouldn't be a big deal ?
    Read carefully. Don't change my words.  I said there would be no WW3  over nuking Kiev not that there would be no reaction. Not that Russia should nuke them anyway thats not the point.
    And don't compare North Korea to Russia, that isn't even remotely funny. And noone cares obout UN.
    North Koreans are toying with UN for years now and what still no airstrikes ?

    West only understands power. Thats why Saddam and Kaddafi fell. They were weak and didn't have WMD's.


    Neutrality wrote:

    As for the rest of your reply, literally no idea what you're talking about.

    Whats to understand ? West expected for Novorussia to take land from Ukraine (land corridor to Crimea).
    And current problems with Crimea are because they didn't take opportunity when it happened.
    West wouldnt lift a finger over that. But that train already left the station. You just take opportunities when you have the chance. But someone on higher level have some other idea.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:25 am


    Fearless IGIL head-cutter is crying like a baby after the Kurds capture him Laughing

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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:51 am

    Kadmos45 wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:

    In what world do you live? Nuke Kiev without any reaction from the rest of world, seriously? The UN is up in their knickers when the North Koreans test nukes underground but nuking a city with a population of over a million people wouldn't be a big deal?

    Who the hell said it wouldn't be a big deal ?
    Read carefully. Don't change my words.  I said there would be no WW3  over nuking Kiev not that there would be no reaction. Not that Russia should nuke them anyway thats not the point.
    And don't compare North Korea to Russia, that isn't even remotely funny. And noone cares obout UN.
    North Koreans are toying with UN for years now and what still no airstrikes ?

    West only understands power. Thats why Saddam and Kaddafi fell. They were weak and didn't have WMD's.


    Neutrality wrote:

    As for the rest of your reply, literally no idea what you're talking about.

    Whats to understand ? West expected for Novorussia to take land from Ukraine (land corridor to Crimea).
    And current problems with Crimea are because they didn't take opportunity when it happened.
    West wouldnt lift a finger over that. But that train already left the station. You just take opportunities when you have the chance. But someone on higher level have some other idea.

    I think "Neutrality" lives in a parallel universe.

    Don't we have a forum rule that gives users from parallel universes only reading privileges and prohibits them from posting?
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    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:31 am

    It became difficult to know what to write in what thread.......
    Anyway, this concerns Syria. So now it seems Germany is to be involved, and later today the British will vote to go to war. I wrote on another thread that it is an objective of America to flood Syria with as many NATO and Syria hating Arab countries as possible in order to totaly confuse the situation and make it difficult for Syria to emerge from this still as a unified country under Assad. I see the entire east and most of the northern areas of Syria being cut off from the rest of Syria and nothing to be done other than for Syria to wage war on it's own soil against NATO, and Assad will loose. But what of Russia, to either remain and fight with Assad or to withdraw to avoid a major war that America now very clearly wants, and I do not see that happening. The actual Megiddo is in Israel these days, but seems it moves, metaphorically, north. Perhaps in this mess Egypt will wake up and realise it needs to be on the right side of history and support Assad, or even invade Libya as Vietnam invaded Cambodia to sort out the mess. What is to be done?
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:06 am

    Actually that doesn't make sense. If they wanted to "flood" Syria, the US has enough muscle, they rotate anywhere from 80 to 150 planes, adding 6 German Tornados and possibly about 12-18 UK fighters isn't going to help anyone, so far France and Europe aren't even near Russian Rolling Circus that presented about 70 aircraft at once dropping the hammer on whoever they needed to whack. So if this is flooding it's kinda weak.

    Unified country? Actually there's one thing Syrians have understood from this. Russians might be on "Assad's" side but at least they do what they say. While the US says something does something else. If anything I'm expecting the future Syrian leadership, whatever orientation to evaluate its options in two columns, what we want and what we can have.

    I'm sure that while Russia will be on both, the reality will soon emerge and show the people, that their country was destroyed by people who don't give a crap about them. This is also why Assad is holding so long even though the SAA is a shadow of its former self.
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    Post  Khepesh on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:30 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Actually that doesn't make sense. If they wanted to "flood" Syria, the US has enough muscle, they rotate anywhere from 80 to 150 planes, adding 6 German Tornados and possibly about 12-18 UK fighters isn't going to help anyone, so far France and Europe aren't even near Russian Rolling Circus that presented about 70 aircraft at once dropping the hammer on whoever they needed to whack. So if this is flooding it's kinda weak.

    Unified country? Actually there's one thing Syrians have understood from this. Russians might be on "Assad's" side but at least they do what they say. While the US says something does something else. If anything I'm expecting the future Syrian leadership, whatever orientation to evaluate its options in two columns, what we want and what we can have.

    I'm sure that while Russia will be on both, the reality will soon emerge and show the people, that their country was destroyed by people who don't give a crap about them. This is also why Assad is holding so long even though the SAA is a shadow of its former self.
    Then what is Russia doing in Syria? to hit some terrorists and go home, or to back up Assad, and if it is to back up Assad, then if NATO has a presence in eastern and northern Syria, and who is to say how many there will be in the future, then there will be a partition of Syria caused by NATO, or a war to stop this occuring. NATO can push as many troops into eastern Syria from Iraq as it wants if need be, and if this happens, what? more talk of "partners", sitting down for a cozy chat with the "partners" with a cup of tea. NATO forces are not in Syria for "self defence", for if that were true then UK aircraft should be bombing Belgium, Sweden, France and their own cities infested with British passport holders who are either active terrorists or terrorist supporters. This is clearly to destroy Syria, so while Russia is now in Syria and more and more NATO arrive, talk of any "war on terror" is nonsense, it is a serious confrontation between NATO and Russia and an issue of Muslims in Europe and the future of Europe, elements that nobody seems to want to acknowledge.

    You say this  "Unified country?", either Syria is a country with it's borders as they are, or it is something else, something that is the result of Washington, which do you want, a united Syria or a divided Syria, and who benefits from a division? This is not about a "unified people" in the sense all are one for that is hardly the case in many countries, but as a nation state.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:33 am

    Khepesh wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Actually that doesn't make sense. If they wanted to "flood" Syria, the US has enough muscle, they rotate anywhere from 80 to 150 planes, adding 6 German Tornados and possibly about 12-18 UK fighters isn't going to help anyone, so far France and Europe aren't even near Russian Rolling Circus that presented about 70 aircraft at once dropping the hammer on whoever they needed to whack. So if this is flooding it's kinda weak.

    Unified country? Actually there's one thing Syrians have understood from this. Russians might be on "Assad's" side but at least they do what they say. While the US says something does something else. If anything I'm expecting the future Syrian leadership, whatever orientation to evaluate its options in two columns, what we want and what we can have.

    I'm sure that while Russia will be on both, the reality will soon emerge and show the people, that their country was destroyed by people who don't give a crap about them. This is also why Assad is holding so long even though the SAA is a shadow of its former self.
    Then what is Russia doing in Syria? to hit some terrorists and go home, or to back up Assad, and if it is to back up Assad, then if NATO has a presence in eastern and northern Syria, and who is to say how many there will be in the future, then there will be a partition of Syria caused by NATO, or a war to stop this occuring. NATO can push as many troops into eastern Syria from Iraq as it wants if need be, and if this happens, what? more talk of "partners", sitting down for a cozy chat with the "partners" with a cup of tea. NATO forces are not in Syria for "self defence", for if that were true then UK aircraft should be bombing Belgium, Sweden, France and their own cities infested with British passport holders who are either active terrorists or terrorist supporters. This is clearly to destroy Syria, so while Russia is now in Syria and more and more NATO arrive, talk of any "war on terror" is nonsense, it is a serious confrontation between NATO and Russia and an issue of Muslims in Europe and the future of Europe, elements that nobody seems to want to acknowledge.

    You say this  "Unified country?", either Syria is a country with it's borders as they are, or it is something else, something that is the result of Washington, which do you want, a united Syria or a divided Syria, and who benefits from a division? This is not about a "unified people" in the sense all are one for that is hardly the case in many countries, but as a nation state.
    Any division of Syria, or Iraq for that matter would have to be agreed by the UN. China for a start is paranoid about such things making it a very difficult option. Autonomy within the current borders is perhaps a more likely option.

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