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    Russian Space Forces: News Thread

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    rambo54

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    ABM Discussion

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    OK! Good to know. Do you have the names of the missiles that the S-500 will use?

    No idea... not many people actually know.

    Don't know whether it is single or two stage... has been said it will be a new missile and not based on S-400, though it may operate with S-400.

    If it's true that A-235 will be mobile then I am not sure what purpose the S-500 will serve? My guess is that the A-235 will be used for exo-atmospheric interception & if that fails then the S-500 will be used for endo atmospheric interception.

    Nudels missiles will be truck based and likely mobile but the radars and infrastructure needed to use them will likely be largely fixed.

    Think of S-400 as being Patriot/THAAD and S-500 being PAC-3/THAAD-ER, while Nudol is getting close to being a dedicated anti sat and anti ICBM system...

    Except that S-400 can deal with a wide range of targets including those travelling at 4.8km/s, while S-500 will be able to deal with targets travelling at 7km/s and some low orbit objects, while Nudel will be able to hit incoming ICBMs and satellites in low and possibly medium orbit too.

    Well all that is an evolutionary process.
    S-300P was alway (in every version) not that what was expected. But Almaz (and Sukhoi) was supported in the Yelzin era. Antey (and MiG) fell short. But the Antey System (S-300V) had always the better potential in its design parameters and came closer to both a long range anti aircraft system with the ability to intercept IRBMs.
    The desperate struggle to turn the S-300P finally into the weapon which was needed ends up in the S-400 (with 40N6, better SW and Radar) and in the S-350, which finally will bring up the 9M96 already promised for S-300P.
    After establishing Almaz-Antey it was clear that the real successor to S-300V will not be stopped at V4 but come up with the S-500.
    Up to now we didn't know much about the 40N6. Does it fit really into the same container like 48N6? Or is it a step forward to a longer missile which will materialize in one of the missiles for S-500?
    I think it is fair to assume that the missiles for S-500 will more derive from 9M82 than from 48N6. One seems for sure. The improvement in Radar, SW, and a 9M82 follow on will provide the S-500 with a true IRBM defence capability which S-400 don't have.

    About ASAT/Nudol and A-235 there is also a lot of guessing. Some sources say both systems are the same. If you have a capable long range ABM you also can kill satellites (SM-3). But who knows. It is believed that A-235 will be stationary. But a new long range variant (as successor to 51T6) was never tested. Just the 53T6 was improved an Don-2N. Is that already "A-235"?
    And if so, is this complemented by a mobile system which was presented on the Almaz-Antey calender picture? A "mobile" system which is supported by a stationary Radar at Chekov? Does this make sense? Or does that Almaz picture just show a variant of S-500?
    Well time will tell

    Austin

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    As Russian "discreetly" deployed missile defense

    Post  Austin on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:49 am

    Interesting article

    As Russian "discreetly" deployed missile defense

    http://politrussia.com/vooruzhennye-sily/kak-rossiya-laquo-nezametno-raquo-426/

    It may look Russian missile defense

    http://politrussia.com/vooruzhennye-sily/kak-mozhet-vyglyadet-228/
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:54 pm

    Russia’s anti-ballistic missile defense system to be upgraded by late 2017

    Work is in full swing today to create a unified national ABM-air defense system of the 21st century to comprise S-500 air defense missile complexes and advanced mobile radar stations

    MOSCOW, January 23. /TASS/. Russia’s anti-ballistic missile system will be upgraded until the end of 2017, Chief of Staff of a Missile Defense Formation Colonel Alexei Chumakov said in an interview with Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper on Monday.

    "Work is in full swing today to create a unified national ABM-air defense system of the 21st century to comprise S-500 air defense missile complexes and advanced mobile radar stations. As a whole, the entire ABM system will be upgraded until the end of 2017. Importantly, the system is being modernized without the withdrawal of capabilities from the organic mode of operation, i.e. without interruptions in operational readiness," he said.

    At present, the radar Don-2N is also undergoing profound upgrade to increase the range of detecting both ballistic targets and small space objects and make its transmitters and receivers more powerful," Krasnaya Zvezda said in its material.

    The Don-2N is a stationary multi-purpose all-round surveillance centimeter-range radar station created to perform missions for Moscow’s missile defense. The radar is capable of detecting an ICBM warhead at a distance of 3,700 km and at an altitude of 40,000 km. The Don-2N is the central and the most complex element of Moscow’s anti-ballistic missile defense system. It is assigned the tasks of detecting and tracking ballistic missiles, measuring coordinates and aiming anti-missiles at incoming targets. The radar is integrated into the unified system of additional data support for missile early warning and outer space control systems.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/926764


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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:31 am

    To clarify the Russian military wanted new long range SAMs for each branch of its military and like most programmes started out with a unified concept/design and label.

    The S-300 sounded nice in theory but took three different directions... F for the Navy, P for the Air Force, and V for the Army.

    F and P are very much related and look very similar externally though of course there are plenty of actual differences.

    V looks totally different.

    The ship mounted models (F) look very similar to the ground based air force models(P), while the Army models(V) are quite different.

    The Air Force missiles are called SA-10, though its later models (ie S-300PMU1/2) are called SA-20.

    The Navy missiles are called SA-N-6 for the S-300F and SA-N-20 for S-300FM.

    The Army S-300V is called SA-12A and B for the two different missiles, while the improved model Antei-2500 or S-300VM are called SA-23.

    The new S-400 is called SA-21 and can be considered a development of the S-300 family for the Navy and Air Force, but the smaller S-400 missiles will likely be called S-350 and deal with shorter to medium range threats with S-400 dealing with longer range targets.

    The future looks like S-400 and S-350 for Air Force and Navy for long range and medium range air defence, with S-500 being an ABM system that compliments but does not replace either being a more specialised system

    For the Army the S-300V4 will likely continue to be developed and for medium range threats the latest model BUKM3 will deal with medium range threats, and S-500 for strategic threats.

    Nudel might be mounted on the back of trucks but I suspect it will remain silo launched with fixed infrastructure... the sort of missions it would be used for (ie protecting cities or major areas) means there is little benefit to making it mobile and launched from a truck.


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    Austin

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    Ballistic Missile Defence: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:56 pm

    Warhead “Super-Fuze” Increases Targeting Capability Of US SSBN Force

    How US nuclear force modernization is undermining strategic stability: The burst-height compensating super-fuze
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  kvs on Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:40 pm

    Austin wrote:Warhead “Super-Fuze” Increases Targeting Capability Of US SSBN Force

    How US nuclear force modernization is undermining strategic stability: The burst-height compensating super-fuze

    Bollox.

    The assumption peddled in the second article is that Russian silo ICBMs would remain in their silos until the US warheads reached them.
    I have never seen any detailed justification of this assumption. The time between launch and arrival at the target is over 10 minutes
    at the least for ballistic missiles and well over an hour for cruise missiles even if they were to be fired at Russia's borders. The only way
    a first strike would work if there was a coup in the Kremlin that had enough time to sabotage the command and control. This is about
    as likely as pigs learning to fly through the icy wastes of Hell. Even Boris Yeltsin's bootlick comprador regime could not disable Russia's
    nuclear deterrent. Sorry, Uncle Scumbag, your window for action never really opened and is certainly closed now.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:44 pm

    The problem with hearing from a lot of sources...

    is that many like to use liquid fuelled ICBMs used by the Soviet Union as evidence of their backwardness... obviously solid fuel is superior to anything else... the west invented solid fuel don't you know... in China.


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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:47 pm

    I would add that with an interception capability of targets moving at 4.8km/s most models of S-400 should be able to defend an ICBM silo field from SLBM attack... certainly with S-500 the job would be even easier...

    Because Silos need direct hits I would think even TOR could blunt an SLBM attack on a silo...


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    Arrow

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  Arrow on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:24 pm

    would add that with an interception capability of targets moving at 4.8km/s most models of S-400 should be able to defend wrote:

    Russia test S-400 against target moving at 4 km/s speed? There is no information about this.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:03 am

    Nahh, they pulled the number from the air... just the same with the range and flight speed of the missiles.

    Most bits of military equipment have design specs they need to perform to to be successful and to enter service.

    Target speeds of 4.8km/s is one of those parameters required of the S-400 SAM system.

    Why would it not have been tested?

    All the information released about the system lists 4.8km/s as the max speed for targets engaged by the system.

    That might be a limitation of the missile or the tracking and guidance system. When an S-500 battery is co-located then the S-400 system might be able to engage faster targets with improved radar systems of the S-500 operating with the S-400 battery.


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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:20 am

    Arrow wrote:
    would add that with an interception capability of targets moving at 4.8km/s most models of S-400 should be able to defend wrote:

    Russia test S-400 against target moving at 4 km/s speed? There is no information about this.

    They using the rockets of the old SAM systems as target drones, so the speed is there.

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  Arrow on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:14 am

    They using the rockets of the old SAM systems as target drones, so the speed is there. wrote:

    Yes but this speed is about 1-1.5km/s ?
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  kvs on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:The problem with hearing from a lot of sources...

    is that many like to use liquid fuelled ICBMs used by the Soviet Union as evidence of their backwardness... obviously solid fuel is superior to anything else... the west invented solid fuel don't you know... in China.

    I guess the premise of a first strike is that it is of sufficient back-stab suddenness that Russian silo ICBMs will not have time to fuel up.
    But I am quite sure that this was considered in the ICBM design going back to the 1950s. That is why they don't use LOX as an oxidant
    which allows them to be loaded with fuel for a long time. If US nuclear missiles can reach Russian silo targets in 10 minutes then
    it does not make sense to have ICBMs which cannot be in a full time state of readiness.

    But it is rather certain that any launch from near Russia's borders will be detected and Russian silo ICBMs will be flying almost immediately.
    So the 10 minute window is of no particular advantage for the first strike lunatics.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:50 am

    Yes but this speed is about 1-1.5km/s ?

    They have plenty of missiles with flight speeds of 4.8km/s and beyond they could use for testing.

    When they displayed interceptions in the 1990s at foreign military events they didn't use Honest Johns and MLRS weapons for the interception tests... they used their own equivalents.

    They would do the same for S400 tests.

    Do you think they use 1.5km/s SAM drones to test the Moscow ABM system every year for the last 30 odd years?


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    Arrow

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  Arrow on Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:34 pm

    What are the missile ? Russia hasn't MRBM and IRBM.



    So how many ICBM intercept Moscow ABM system during the test for last 10 years ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:44 am

    They have plenty of different missiles they can use... look at all the ICBMs they have withdrawn in the last 20 years.

    Liquid fuelled rockets can turn off their engines at any time and therefore reach any speed desired for reentry for testing purposes.


    So how many ICBM intercept Moscow ABM system during the test for last 10 years ?

    Hahahahahaha... yes... they tested them every year or every second year during the cold war but now they don't test them at all. All those upgrades and new radars and new missiles and they have not tested at all in the last 20 years... very logical.

    BTW I have never seen a photo of Obama taking a shit... I guess he is not human.


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    Mindstorm

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:18 am


    Muti-topic article on КБМ with a very interesting paragraph on one of the most secret startegic defense product : active-protection system for startegic installations against ICBM warheads, denomination " «изделие 171».

    Are decribed some of its outstanding achievements, also against a massed attack with 8 real ICBMs.


    http://warfiles.ru/show-149176-put-ot-minometov-k-iskanderu-verbe-i-arene.html

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:55 am

    Ok. So I was wondering how can Russia develop countermeasures to US MIRVs if it doesn't have detailed knowledge about the way MIRVs manoeuvre. As a Russian this is of concern to me.

    I should qualify my answer by saying that the way the US and Russian missile manouver is secret because they don't want Chinese or Iranian or North Korean missiles doing the same.

    The fact that the method of manouver is secret does not mean you need to know it to defeat it.

    When you launch an R-73 AAM at an F-35 it does not need to know how the flight control system of the F-35 works to hit it... it just needs a lock and the ability to turn when it needs to to ensure that if the target moves it can move to retain an intercept course to hit it.


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    George1

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    Re: Russian Space Forces: News Thread

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:13 pm

    Russian Space Forces identify all missile launches in their area of responsibility

    The Missile Warning System receives and transmits data of missile launches and missile paths in order to warn authorities of a looming missile attack on settlements and military bases

    YENISEISK, June 6. /TASS/. The Space Forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces have detected all missile launches in the area of responsibility of the Missile Warning System during their combat duty in 2016, Space Forces Commander, Lieutenant General Alexander Golovko, told Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu.

    "During combat duty in 2016, over 40 launches of foreign and Russian ballistic missiles were detected with the help of the Missile Warning System, the Space Tracking Systems and anti-missile defense systems," Golovko reported.

    Today, Shoigu checked the organization of the experimental combat duty of the Voronezh-DM radar located in the vicinity of the city of Yeniseisk, Krasnoyarsk Region.

    The Missile Warning System receives and transmits data of missile launches and missile paths in order to warn authorities of a looming missile attack on settlements and military bases. The Missile Warning System deploys the new-generation Voronezh class radars.

    At present, four new Voronezh radars are now on combat duty in the Leningrad, Kaliningrad, Irkutsk and Krasnodar Regions. Three more new Voronezh radars were deployed on experimental combat duty in the Krasnoyarsk, Altai and Orenburg Regions. By the end of 2017, there are plans to wrap up their experimental operation and put them on full combat duty.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/950028


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    Austin

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    Antimissile 'umbrella' to be created over Russia’s enitre territory

    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:14 pm

    Antimissile 'umbrella' to be created over Russia’s enitre territory

    http://tass.com/defense/950236

    MOSCOW, June 7. /TASS/. Russia’s defense industry has proposed to the Defense Ministry a rational missile defense option that will allow for opening an anti-missile umbrella over the country’s whole territory, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Wednesday.

    "The joint working group for creating the technical basis of Russia’s air and space defense, which I have led since 2012, has arrived at the conclusion that the industry and military scientists have managed to propose to the Defense Ministry a rational option of creating the country’s missile defense shield, including the ground and space components. Once Russia’s integral space system is in place, Russia will find itself under an anti-missile umbrella," he said.

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