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    Kalibr missile system

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    TR1

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    The land attack one is the longest range variant seen so far with range around 2600km.

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:36 am

    The land attack one is the longest range variant seen so far with range around 2600km.

    Supersonic Anti-Ship Kalibr has been stated as having a range of 375km.

    Vann7

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:41 am

    TR1 wrote:The land attack one is the longest range variant seen so far with range around 2600km.

    Supersonic Anti-Ship Kalibr has been stated as having a range of 375km.

    Cool can you give me the link of that land attack version? in English. lol
    Have been unable to find that information ,other than forums.
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    TR1

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    is this the reason why russian wont induct brahmos in their navy ? why they went in JV with india if they were not planning to buy those missiles themselves ?

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:48 am

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/255530.html

    I don't really read English sources, but here is a Russian admiral specifically addressing Kalibr range, when the weapon was first launched from the Dagestan corvette.

    "Результаты испытаний положительные, — сообщил командующий флотилией. – Корабль неплохой, с современной начинкой. В настоящее время это самый мощный в вооружении Российского флота корабль. На нем установлен ракетный комплекс, дальность стрельбы которого по надводным целям 375 км, а по береговой цели – до 2600 км. Таких комплексов с мощным ракетным оружием в России больше нет, только на подводных лодках".

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:59 am



    Is there any place to learn about all family of Caliber Missiles.. the non export version ,ie... the ones Russian Navy will operate?
    and if possible in English?


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    TR1

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    Is there any place to learn about all family of Caliber Missiles.. the non export version ,ie... the ones Russian Navy will operate?
    and if possible in English?


    Very limited info - what are you looking for?

    It shares the same guidance and approach principles, the most striking difference being range.
    We were all suspicious for a long time why a missile the size of Club and with that engine had such low range compared to say Granat...now we know.

    So far we have only info on the supersonic and subsonic anti-surface versions being operated, nothing about the anti-sub ones. Seeing is believing, and no sight of em yet.
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    GarryB

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    Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:06 am

    So far we have only info on the supersonic and subsonic anti-surface versions being operated, nothing about the anti-sub ones. Seeing is believing, and no sight of em yet.
    The export versions are called Klub and pretty much come in 5 different weapon versions for export... the subsonic all the way land attack missile, the subsonic all the way anti ship missile and the subsonic approach and mach 3 (2.9) terminal attack anti ship model, plus two different anti sub models which both use solid rocket boosters for the ballistic phase and a homing torpedo payload section for the terminal phase. The difference between the two anti sub missiles is that one is designed to be sub launched from a UKSK launcher bin and the other is designed to be launched from a UKSK launch bin on a surface vessel.


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    Mike E

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    GarryB, I have a question for you (a couple, to be exact).

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:10 am

    GarryB, I have a question for you (a couple, to be exact). 

    Do you have any more information on the 2500km range Kalibr (Klub)? I cannot seem to find information on it anywhere! 

    This question is on the same missile, does it have a "supersonic warhead" like the other Klub missiles?



    I think the biggest "threat" to AShMs is the RIM-162 ESSM. Since it hasn't been tested against Russian AShMs, its performance is unknown. Isn't it funny that the Zumwalt class lacks even a single CIWS? It is almost like they want it to be destroyed!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:39 am

    Do you have any more information on the 2500km range Kalibr (Klub)? I cannot seem to find information on it anywhere!

    The information you read about is all about Klub and therefore about export products.

    Kalibr is not for export.

    Very simply the Soviet Navy developed a 2,500km range cruise missile that NATO called Sampson and gave the ASCC code of SS-N-21 Granat (Not to be confused with the 7 ton Granit of the Kirov/Oscar/Kuznetsov vessels).

    250m CEP of Granat meant it was a nuke only.

    Enter new technology and new terminal guidance and navigation and you end up with Kh-101 and Kh-102 terminal seeker and long range guidance fitted to the old Granit and you get Klub.

    In the export family you have the subsonic all the way anti ship or land attack model with a range of about 290-300km as per international export restrictions. There is also the version with the pointy nose that flys 250km to the target at subsonic but launches a rocket powered payload the last 50-80km to penetrate the last line of defences of a ship.

    The Russian versions are not limited by export restrictions so their anti ship subsonic all the way missile could easily have the 2,500km range of Granat, while their subsonic land attack missile is called Kalibr and also has a 2,500km range and a very small CEP. the main question regards the high speed missile... my personal opinion is that the subsonic section has a range of 1,000 to 1,500km with the supersonic section reaching the same 50-80km at very low altitude.

    Russian domestic models are not revealed publicly and so information is occasionally slipped but confirmation is difficult.

    For a while Naval officials were talking about a 5,000km range cruise missile... the Kh-101 and Kh-102 air launched missiles used by the Russian air force have this range so an upgraded ship and sub launched model is not impossible.

    Plus, they are barely even on more than a couple US ships. The US is relying on the old Phalanx system instead.)

    The Soviets/Russians have always taken anti ship missiles more seriously than the US or Brits... their larger ships have 8 or more gatlings and the introduction of Kashtan was largely to defend against supersonic anti ship missiles.


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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:25 pm

    Thanks for all the info, that is what I expected.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Viktor on Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:03 pm

    Nice article about Caliber missile system from Charly blog - nothing we did not know but still nice summary  thumbsup

    The accounts of the Russian missile system Caliber ...

    chicken

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  chicken on Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:43 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice article about Caliber missile system from Charly blog - nothing we did not know but still nice summary  thumbsup

    The accounts of the Russian missile system Caliber ...

    Hi new guy here, just some questions.

    What's the size difference between the 3M-54-1 and the 3M-14? Is the 3M-14 as big as Granat? Because one has a range of only 600km and the other has 2600km while they look almost the same. Also why not use 3M-14 as basis for an anti ship missile instead of the 3M-54-1? Is the seeker that different between the two as to merit a 2000km difference in range?

    Also why is there no Google Earth image for the Caspian Sea?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:28 am

    Look at the top of that range chart and ponder on the meaning of the word Especulacion...



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    chicken

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  chicken on Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:34 am

    GarryB wrote:Look at the top of that range chart and ponder on the meaning of the word Especulacion...


    Okay, then let me modify/rephrase my question.

    Why is there a size difference between the 3M-54-1 and the 3M-14? One has a range of 1600km (oficial not especulacion according to that blog) and the other has lesser range (300km exportacion/ 600km especulacion) while they look almost the same. Why not use 3M-14 as basis for an anti ship missile instead of the 3M-54-1?

    Is 3M-54-1 only for export? Which means his especulacion about the 600km range is useless.
    Or were they suppose to quadpack it in one launcher?

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:05 am

    chicken wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Look at the top of that range chart and ponder on the meaning of the word Especulacion...


    Okay, then let me modify/rephrase my question.

    Why is there a size difference between the 3M-54-1 and the 3M-14? One has a range of 1600km (oficial not especulacion according to that blog) and the other has lesser range (300km exportacion/ 600km especulacion) while they look almost the same. Why not use 3M-14 as basis for an anti ship missile instead of the 3M-54-1?

    Is 3M-54-1 only for export? Which means his especulacion about the 600km range is useless.
    Or were they suppose to quadpack it in one launcher?

    You made a valid and interesting question.
    As far i have read the anti-ship missiles warhead and electronics devices have way more than land attack missiles.
    Because anti-ship missiles need to target mobile targets and they have to have powerful engines to do heavy turns and fly fast and also have decoys to fool enemy defenses.. land attack missiles do not need any of that since their targets are static and they can cover/hide while closing a target  behind  a mountain . So i suspect the difference in range had to do with the extra equipment of anti-ship missiles which is extra weight. The numbers i saw for the 3m-14 was 2600km range ,and 3m-54 anti ship up to 700km perhaps the ones with greater range are subsonic and fly most of the time at that speed and only accelerate in the last second of impact and have way less equipment inside than anti-ship missiles.

    edit..

    After looking at at wiki it looks is more an treaty thing the differences more than anything. the Kh-55 a soviet nuclear cruise missile with up 3,000km range some versions..  apparently Russia and USA have an agreement to limit the range of their anti-ship weapons no higher than 600km.  however in a real war such treaties will be mean nothing.., Nothing stop Russia once a war start to use ICBM nuclear armed missile to disable aircraft carriers convoys communications and radars. You blind a naval fleet first with a torpedo with a nuke that will explode away of the range of ship close gatlin gun defenses destroying its electronics and seriously damaging a warship and later finish them with a cruise missile or torpedo ,without any resistance.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:00 am

    Why is there a size difference between the 3M-54-1 and the 3M-14? One has a range of 1600km (oficial not especulacion according to that blog) and the other has lesser range (300km exportacion/ 600km especulacion) while they look almost the same. Why not use 3M-14 as basis for an anti ship missile instead of the 3M-54-1?

    I don't know for sure, but suspect the shorter range weapon is designed to hit ships and mobile targets, while the weapon with the longer range is a land attack weapon.

    The shorter range weapon needs onboard radar to find and attack its target and might also carry chaff and flares and disposable jammers to enable it to penetrate the target ships defences... and may have a larger explosive payload.

    Likely both missiles will have a domestic and export version with export models limited to 300kms or less.

    Another factor could be detection range... enemy land threats that are fixed could be targetted from a wider range of places whereas finding enemy ships that can be clearly IDed as enemy and can be reached by a subsonic missile before it leaves the area means shorter range shots make more sense anyway.


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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  chicken on Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Why is there a size difference between the 3M-54-1 and the 3M-14? One has a range of 1600km (oficial not especulacion according to that blog) and the other has lesser range (300km exportacion/ 600km especulacion) while they look almost the same. Why not use 3M-14 as basis for an anti ship missile instead of the 3M-54-1?

    I don't know for sure, but suspect the shorter range weapon is designed to hit ships and mobile targets, while the weapon with the longer range is a land attack weapon.

    The shorter range weapon needs onboard radar to find and attack its target and might also carry chaff and flares and disposable jammers to enable it to penetrate the target ships defences... and may have a larger explosive payload.

    Likely both missiles will have a domestic and export version with export models limited to 300kms or less.

    Another factor could be detection range... enemy land threats that are fixed could be targetted from a wider range of places whereas finding enemy ships that can be clearly IDed as enemy and can be reached by a subsonic missile before it leaves the area means shorter range shots make more sense anyway.

    At first I thought the 3m-14 was to be fired using 650mm torpedo tubes while 3M-54-1 can be fired with 533mm tubes. But other sites list both as can be fired using 533mm tubes with only 1 source listing the 3M-14 as 620mm and 3M-54-1 as 510mm, so I guess I'm wrong. Also I read somewhere that the 3m-54-1 uses the Kh-35's seeker, so probably the size is just for cost cutting? They're for low priority targets like transport ships? Cheap swarm missiles?
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    GarryB

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    Caliber missile system

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:09 am

    Also I read somewhere that the 3m-54-1 uses the Kh-35's seeker, so probably the size is just for cost cutting? They're for low priority targets like transport ships? Cheap swarm missiles?

    The Kh-35 is reported to have a very sophisticated MMW radar seeker that has excellent range and discrimination that is very difficult to jam or fool.

    Don't underestimate it.


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    `Sizzler' Missile

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:35 pm

    US Navy Lacks Plan to Defend Against `Sizzler' Missile  




    ``This is a very low-flying, fast missile,'' said retired Rear Admiral Eric McVadon, a former U.S. naval attache in Beijing. ``It won't be visible until it's quite close. By the time you detect it to the time it hits you is very short. You'd want to know your capabilities to handle this sort of missile.''

    The Navy's ship-borne Aegis system, deployed on cruisers and destroyers starting in the early 1980s, is designed to protect aircraft-carrier battle groups from missile attacks. But current and former officials say the Navy has no assurance Aegis, built by Lockheed Martin Corp., is capable of detecting, tracking and intercepting the Sizzler.

    ``This was an issue when I walked in the door in 2001,'' Thomas Christie, the Defense Department's top weapons-testing official from mid-2001 to early 2005, said in an interview.

    `A Major Issue'

    `` The Navy recognized this was a major issue, and over the years, I had continued promises they were going to fully fund development and production'' of missiles that could replicate the Sizzler to help develop a defense against it, Christie said. ``They haven't.''



    3M-54E Sizzler Anti-ship missile fired from coast.. (can also be launched
    from subs and warships ie.. Yasen Submarines or Newest Russian corvettes and frigates in service.)




    All the variants of Sizzler missile.



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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:35 am

    Pretty good summary on the Kalibr system....different versions and the vessels that are armed with them

    Russian Navy’s Long Arm: Kalibr missile family
    http://southfront.org/russian-navys-long-arm-kalibr-missile-family/


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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:31 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Pretty good summary on the Kalibr system....different versions and the vessels that are armed with them

    Russian Navy’s Long Arm: Kalibr missile family
    http://southfront.org/russian-navys-long-arm-kalibr-missile-family/

    I took particular notice of this sentance:

    "The Project 949AM submarines will carry up to 72 Kalibr-PL and Oniks missiles."

    It certainly sounds like 3x Klub/Kalibr/Oniks per Granit launch tube! Very Happy

    I can well imagine the carnage potential of a trio of modernised Oscars with a land-attack load-out. Jihadist scum and Pentagon nazis had best beware! russia
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    max steel

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  max steel on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:28 pm

    Those were Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.

    Caspian Flotilla simply demonstrated what those small missile ships, granted, accompanied by a larger corvette Dagestan, can do. The file on REAL distributed lethality is, finally, open. 4 ships, with total displacement of about half that of a single destroyer and the price tag even less than that, launched the salvo of 26 Kalibr cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea.Strategic ramifications of this are colossal, it was clear already before, but after that it became a reality of an immense power of modern missile weapons and those seemingly "unimpressive" platforms which carry them. After all, the range of Kalibr is up to 2500 kilometers and GLONASS' combat (not civilian) CEP (Circular Error Probable) is rumored to be about 0.4-0.6 meters, that is 1.5-2 feet.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:45 pm

    max steel wrote:Those were Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.

    Caspian Flotilla simply demonstrated what those small missile ships, granted, accompanied by a larger corvette Dagestan, can do. The file on REAL distributed lethality is, finally, open. 4 ships, with total displacement of about half that of a single destroyer and the price tag even less than that, launched the salvo of 26 Kalibr cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea.Strategic ramifications of this are colossal, it was clear already before, but after that it became a reality of an immense power of modern missile weapons and those seemingly "unimpressive" platforms which carry them. After all, the range of Kalibr is up to 2500 kilometers and GLONASS' combat (not civilian) CEP  (Circular Error Probable) is rumored to be about 0.4-0.6 meters, that is 1.5-2 feet.

    Ill repeat this for 12457th time, we do not know range of Kalibr at this point, 2.500km range was once claimed to be by commander of Caspitan Fleet however other than that no such info was ever released up to this date. Till they do not hit something 2.500km away ill stick with range of 1.500-1600km, we simply cant know unless some solid statement ever comes from Novator or Russian MoD. I am just being logical here.

    And CEP you stated is far, far from being real, one thing is accuracy of GLONASS, other thing is CEP of a cruise missile i know that some Russian generals stated 2-3m CEP for journalists but lets get real now, one thing is average person reading news on RT/Sputnik, one thing is person with extensive knowledge about military technology. Taurus has CEP of 10m claimed by desiegners, Tomahawk has TERCOM, DSMAC or GPS and has claimed CEP of 10m, Iskander M has claimed CEP of 8m... There is no chance whatsoever that Kalibr has CEP of 50cm, no missile has. Just saying.
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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  max steel on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:50 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    max steel wrote:Those were Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.

    Caspian Flotilla simply demonstrated what those small missile ships, granted, accompanied by a larger corvette Dagestan, can do. The file on REAL distributed lethality is, finally, open. 4 ships, with total displacement of about half that of a single destroyer and the price tag even less than that, launched the salvo of 26 Kalibr cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea.Strategic ramifications of this are colossal, it was clear already before, but after that it became a reality of an immense power of modern missile weapons and those seemingly "unimpressive" platforms which carry them. After all, the range of Kalibr is up to 2500 kilometers and GLONASS' combat (not civilian) CEP  (Circular Error Probable) is rumored to be about 0.4-0.6 meters, that is 1.5-2 feet.

    Ill repeat this for 12457th time, we do not know range of Kalibr at this point, 2.500km range was once claimed to be by commander of Caspitan Fleet however other than that no such info was ever released up to this date. Till they do not hit something 2.500km away ill stick with range of 1.500-1600km, we simply cant know unless some solid statement ever comes from Novator or Russian MoD. I am just being logical here.

    And CEP you stated is far, far from being real, one thing is accuracy of GLONASS, other thing is CEP of a cruise missile i know that some Russian generals stated 2-3m CEP for journalists but lets get real now, one thing is average person reading news on RT/Sputnik, one thing is person with extensive knowledge about military technology. Taurus has CEP of 10m claimed by desiegners, Tomahawk has TERCOM, DSMAC or GPS and has claimed CEP of 10m, Iskander M has claimed CEP of 8m... There is no chance whatsoever that Kalibr has CEP of 50cm, no missile has. Just saying.


    I quoted someone who has served in Soviet Union and Russian Navy and he writes for naval publications too . So , I'll stick to his point Cool
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    Militarov

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:58 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    max steel wrote:Those were Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.

    Caspian Flotilla simply demonstrated what those small missile ships, granted, accompanied by a larger corvette Dagestan, can do. The file on REAL distributed lethality is, finally, open. 4 ships, with total displacement of about half that of a single destroyer and the price tag even less than that, launched the salvo of 26 Kalibr cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea.Strategic ramifications of this are colossal, it was clear already before, but after that it became a reality of an immense power of modern missile weapons and those seemingly "unimpressive" platforms which carry them. After all, the range of Kalibr is up to 2500 kilometers and GLONASS' combat (not civilian) CEP  (Circular Error Probable) is rumored to be about 0.4-0.6 meters, that is 1.5-2 feet.

    Ill repeat this for 12457th time, we do not know range of Kalibr at this point, 2.500km range was once claimed to be by commander of Caspitan Fleet however other than that no such info was ever released up to this date. Till they do not hit something 2.500km away ill stick with range of 1.500-1600km, we simply cant know unless some solid statement ever comes from Novator or Russian MoD. I am just being logical here.

    And CEP you stated is far, far from being real, one thing is accuracy of GLONASS, other thing is CEP of a cruise missile i know that some Russian generals stated 2-3m CEP for journalists but lets get real now, one thing is average person reading news on RT/Sputnik, one thing is person with extensive knowledge about military technology. Taurus has CEP of 10m claimed by desiegners, Tomahawk has TERCOM, DSMAC or GPS and has claimed CEP of 10m, Iskander M has claimed CEP of 8m... There is no chance whatsoever that Kalibr has CEP of 50cm, no missile has. Just saying.


    I quoted someone who has served in Soviet Union and Russian Navy and he writes for naval publications too . So , I'll stick to his point Cool

    And i worked in Air Defence, want me to solve quickly Almaz Antey troubles with S500 to hasten abit up the design? Fact that he worked in the Navy means nothing, you think that people in Navy know everything about systems they work on? "Press this to get that, press this to get that, this switch up for this" that is what people in Navy do and in every branche actually. Sorry to tell you this but that "someone" is feeding people with BS. Stick to whatever you feel like tho but whoever has balls to claim 50cm CEP on anything is a hoax.

    And yea id like name of this person.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:15 pm

    max steel wrote:I'm not disrespecting your service so don't get pissed off. Very Happy


    https://plus.google.com/116024248756604391725/about

    His Blog : http://smoothiex12.blogspot.in


    https://disqus.com/by/smoothiex12/


    M.S. Naval Engineering, specialization in Gyro-Inertial Navigational Complexes of the Naval Strategic Missile Systems based on projects. 667 B-BD (Delta I-II). Class of 1985 of one very famous naval academy in USSR. Practiced on subs of projects 613, 641B. Was pretty much on most nukes. Served on the surface ships, though, and then on the shore  his class alone (not the whole graduate class of 1985-that was several hundred people), out of roughly 30 graduated officers, produced two COs of subs. One of them SSK, the other--nuke.

    As i thought so, operator from 25 years ago Very Happy. Fact that he likes naval technology since its his job and life doesnt make him right, especially not in this case, even his estimate on Glonass precision is not legit, actually he is not even informed that military and civilian Glonass singlas have been merged into "military" one. Thing is that entering error on purpose in navigation signals stopped long ago, there is no difference between military and civilian GLONASS/GPS today (however it did exist, GPS even had scrambled signal with eror being added on purpose), except i suppose that most of the military devices have dual GPS/Glonass chips for increased accuracy and versatility in case one of the two is not available for whatever reason.

    Current official data on precision for Glonass:



    This probably improved slightly tho due to few new satelites Glonass-M being deployed since this table was made but not on magnitude to suddenly go to 50cm that is out of the question, not even remotelly possible, 10-15% improvement is to be expected but not everywhere naturally.

    "In 2006, Defence Minister Sergey Ivanov ordered one of the signals (with an accuracy of 30 metres (98 ft)) to be made available to civilian users. Putin, however, was not satisfied with this, and demanded that the whole system should be made fully available to everyone. Consequently, on 18 May 2007, all restrictions were lifted. The accurate, formerly military-only signal with a precision of 10 metres (33 ft), has since then been freely available to civilian users."[/i

    I am just saying that you shouldnt blindly belive what someone writes on BLOGSPOT for the love of God i just noticed its Blogspot... always do -20 points on being legit to people that write on Blogspot unless if you know person from other source or personally.

    No offense to the author and his service in the Navy (which i highly respect) but some things he simply cant know, nor does most of the Admirals for that matter, even active ones. Informations like this are mostly rough estimates, even factory documents often fabricate such data to increase orders or chance for being ordered, probably some guys in Novator could tell you right number but what for, its not bullet so its mandatory to hit 25x25cm square. I personally expected CEP to be somewhat like on Tomahawk, 8-11m.

    I am not saying you ment something bad with this quote, just saying guy is wrong on this one 100%.

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