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    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

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    flamming_python

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:07 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    medo wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/world/asia/india-submarine.html?ref=world&_r=2&

    I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor. They load at night and next morning was holiday. Explosion happened with last missiles, so I think, that at the end of loading they just want to finish quickly, but when you work quick, you are less careful and in a hurry, they could do something they should not do and tragedy happened.

    I think this is a lesson, that you have to be same careful when you load last missile as when you load first missile and all between.
    How can that be?  Missiles have safe guards, they do not explode because it isn't inserted correctly.  It was a cascade failure at the fault of NPO Novator.  There has always been problems with quality control of Klub missiles, now it is deadly.  
    Yes that's certainly one possibility, but it could be the fault of the crew/officers too.
    From what I understood; fail-safes or not (and there would typically be several not just one) - the missiles are not just supposed to 'explode' if they haven't been primed and armed. Or am I wrong?
    So why were the missiles in this state? Or maybe the launch tubes were?

    In all likelyhood it looks like the Klub-S manufacturers might be at fault in either case - it's just a question as to whether partially or completely.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    TR1

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:13 am

    I have never heard of Klub missiles having issues, even they are widely used.

    Are you guys making these accusations with any actual backing....or?

    We don't even know if the missile itself blew- on a submarine it could be many factors or dangerous gas buildup.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:04 am

    x2

    Club missiles and other Russian cruise missiles (like Granat) have been widely used for decades. Never heard of defects and/or safety issues.
    The tragic Indian submarine accident cause(s) have not been identified yet.

    Can we please stop the witch hunt.
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    runaway

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:17 am

    NEW DELHI, August 19 (RIA Novosti) – Russian experts believe human error - or “mishandling of equipment” - could have caused the deadly explosions that sank a Russian-built Indian navy submarine last week, The Times of India has reported.

    The boat, INS Sindhurakshak, a Kilo-class (Project 877 EKM) diesel-electric powered vessel, sank at its moorings in the port of Mumbai on August 14 after a series of blasts devastated the vessel and triggered a fire. Six bodies have been found on board the sunken boat so far while the search continues for another 12 crew members.

    A team of Russian experts visiting Mumbai have ruled out “technical error or sabotage” as the cause of the accident, the report said. "The experts raised the possibility of mishandling of equipment as the reason" for the disaster, the newspaper said citing an unnamed source.

    The source claimed there was no chance that the accident was caused by a technical fault as the submarine is checked thoroughly - "also through computers" - before it goes to sea. The boat was due to set out on patrol on August 14, the paper said.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:26 pm

    medo wrote:I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor.
    Nothing technically wrong with either the submarine or the missiles . Not entirely a human factor either .

    medo wrote:They load at night and next morning was holiday.
    It happened on the night of 13th Aug so next morning was not a holiday .


    Two KILO class submarines ( INS Sindhurakshak being one of them) were been prepared on that night & they were placed besides each other . So the same modus operandi for charging the batteries and loading the torpedos / missiles were being followed for both the subs. Had the modus operandi been faulty then both the subs would have exploded . But that did not happen . Infact the other KILO class sub sailed into the sea inspite of the explosion on the other sub.


    Catastrophoc damage to INS Sindhurakshak wasn't caused by warhead detonation at all, but by triggering of the propellants within the missiles/torpedoes.Had the warheads detonated, then the entire hull of the SSK would have lost structural integrity & salvaging of the hull would have been impossible.This was a case of the propellants of the on-board Novator 3M54E/3M14E cruise missiles burning off & detonating the two on-board TEST-71 torpedoes. Since the warheads of the missiles were not armed, they did not explode.

    The intensity of the blast threw 3 sailors who were standing near the starboard onto the sea . Due to the intensity of the fire and the pace at which it spread a majority of the sailors on board the sub simply vaporized .
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    Viktor

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:16 pm

    Sujoy - so still nothing official yet?
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:40 pm

    Viktor wrote:Sujoy - so still nothing official yet?
    No Viktor . What I stated above is based on eye witness account and what the Defence Minister said in Parliament today .

    The enquiry committee that has been set up will take a minimum of 30 days to file a report .

    If you look at the video that I have posted it clearly shows a White ball of fire , meaning something combustible went off .
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    NationalRus

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  NationalRus on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:18 pm

    if it was a technal diffect with the submarine itself, then this will be a majorly huge shitstorm and PR disaster
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    NickM

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    INDIA STEALS NUCLEAR SUBMARINE TECHNOLOGY FROM US

    Post  NickM on Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:36 pm

    In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
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    macedonian

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  macedonian on Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:00 pm

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    This is what I think of whenever someone mentions the NY Post and their 'superb form of journalism':
    jocolor

    I'll just be quoting something from an article on their home page:
    "I have a word of advice for American allies outraged by alleged NSA spying on their leaders: Grow up. That means you, Germany. You too, France. And you, Brazil. Mexico, too. Also the EU and the UN..."

    Now perhaps YOU to can GROW UP, and take your racist crap and PISS OFF back to your council estate in Luton (or Kilburn, or Brixton, or wherever the fcuk you're from)!

    ...or...here's an idea:

    You can move over to your cousins' place over in America(r), where you can live in a nice trailer park, and just feel more at home, and join the effin' Ku Klux Klan!
    Now bugger off!

    You lot have caused more problems in the world with your support for the Saudi Arabian wahhabism, the Chechnian terrorism, the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and [here] Macedonia, or the muslims terrorists in Kashmir (yes, INDIA) than the Indians ever have!
    So piss off you wanker, and take your 'white supremacy' crap with you, because I know what you lot are all about!

    And when you do, PLEASE NOTE that Britannia ain't ruling the seas no more, and that fact alone makes most of the white people in the world happy!!!
    Because you slimy bastards can play 'divide and conquer' with white nations no more!
    NOW PISS OFF!
    WANKER!
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:06 pm

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse than the Indians in something?
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    macedonian

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  macedonian on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:20 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse  than the Indians in something?
    +1 for you my friend (и брат Smile )!
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    TR1

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:24 pm

    This really is not the best time for America to bitch about spying.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:54 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse  than the Indians in something?
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:02 am

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    India did to the US what the US does to a whole lot of other countries .

    Also , feast your eyes on this American surveillance activities
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    GarryB

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:53 am

    What goes around comes around.

    Of course also bear in mind that this spying could be to upgrade the quality of Indian subs, but it could equally just be used to enhance targeting of US subs...


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    spotter

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  spotter on Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:17 pm

    This doesnt necessarily mean anything special.
    The article, surprisingly or not, says nothing about the sub's class. Worse, it doesnt mention what "technical component" was compromised. It may well be a stupid plan of the crew compartments on the LA class.

    Regardless, this reminds me of the old, cheap US media practice "Wag the dog".
    Seems to me this is supposed to draw a spotlight away from spying Merkel for the last 11years.
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    runaway

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:35 pm

    Has anyone any more information, is she raised yet and cause of explosion?

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    GarryB

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:29 am

    Warheads don't explode by themselves... they need detonators to set them off.

    The most likely cause was propellent... either from torpedoes or missiles.

    When you see a T-72 turret get blown off that is the propellent exploding... when HE explodes (ie all the HE shells) it has a much more shattering effect and there is rather less left of the structure.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:02 pm

    runaway wrote:Has anyone any more information, is she raised yet and cause of explosion?
    Not much . The preliminary investigation has only ruled out sabotage .

    Two theories are doing the round as to what caused the accident . First , an error involving the loading of torpedoes might have caused the explosion on board . Second , an internal short circuit caused a massive fire inside the submarine .

    The complete incident report would only be submitted after the submarine is salvaged , so that means at least another 6 months . Global tenders for the salvage operation will probably be issued shortly .
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    SSDD

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  SSDD on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:09 am

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    Even if we steal, it does not matter at least to a country which used Napalm bombs in Vietnam or who planned to send a naval squadron or even planned to nuke us in 1971 war.
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    runaway

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:31 pm

    So how long can a Kilo stay submerged without snorkling? Guess the air for crew will last only some 2 days?


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    GarryB

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:24 am

    Old Kilos probably 4-5 days at 4knts.

    New Kilos probably 6-7 days.

    New Lada class with old batteries and no AIP is supposed to be 9 days, but 16 days with Lithium ion batteries and rather more with AIP.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:50 am

    Excerpt from Indian Navy's Board of Inquiry-led forensic analysis

    The catastrophic explosion on board the INS Sindhurakshak was caused by accidental detonation of a Novator 3M54E Klub-S ASCM. However, none of the torpedoes exploded .
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    TR1

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:55 am

    Sujoy wrote:Excerpt from Indian Navy's Board of Inquiry-led forensic analysis

    The catastrophic explosion on board the INS Sindhurakshak was caused by accidental detonation of a Novator 3M54E Klub-S ASCM.  However, none of the torpedoes exploded .

    How did they manage to accidently detonate a Klub?!?

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