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    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

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    Austin
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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am

    Expert on submarine fleet talked about possible causes and consequences of the accident on a submarine in India

    "The fact that the explosion occurred at night in India, can attest to the fact that it was taken off the air torpedo ammunition", - told the newspaper VIEW chairman of the St. Petersburg Submariners' Club Captain 1st Rank Igor Kurdin stock. In his opinion, we should not ignore the version of the attack.


    "Maybe someone wanted to spoil the party"

    Igor K., what could there be? Which, perhaps, have weaknesses in boats of this series?

    Igor Kurdin: Indian boat only recently was upgraded. The main advantage of this project - its simplicity, which, in turn, ensures reliability.

    Anything like this before on submarines of this series did not happen. I want to remind you that we have built for themselves 24 and 20 such submarines were sent for export to different countries. In 2005, the serial order of the five boats brought us almost 75% of the profits from the export of Russian weapons. For us it is a very profitable and lucrative arms export item.

    A scene on submarines at all, even the newest technology and well-trained crew is still inevitable. Another thing that one should always draw the appropriate conclusions.

    What other emergency on submarines are parallels in this case?

    IK: At one time, in January 1962, detonated a diesel-electric submarine B-37 at a pier in the Arctic - then the main base of the Northern Fleet submarine force. Killed more than 100 people, almost all of the crew, and even sunk two submarines stationed nearby. And still is not certain cause of the explosion of torpedo ammunition because of destruction there were such a force, which prevented reliably determine what happened. Most likely, the rules have been violated procedural works with torpedo weapons.

    The fact that the explosion occurred in India at night, around midnight, and, according to witnesses, it was not even a single explosion, and four or five consecutive, can attest to the fact that it was taken off the air torpedo ammunition. And the explosion of such force leaves virtually no chance of saving the crew. I also note that the entire crew of a submarine consists of 52 people, and on board the Indian was only 18. I can say that nowhere and never carried out maintenance work with a gun at night, only during the day, when the whole crew is aboard.

    Among the versions of what happened is called a hydrogen explosion when charging batteries submarine. What do you think about this?

    IK: Yes, a number of experts are inclined to this version of the original causes of the explosion. Indeed, the boat was getting ready to go to sea, and it is possible that the forces of watches and electromechanical parts specialists conducted charging batteries. I will say more on my boat and was once the battery explode. But its effects were minimal in terms of destruction and loss of life. We have not lost a single sailor. So the version that subsequently led to an explosion of the torpedo explosion of ammunition, it seems to me somewhat strained.

    Then what is left?

    IK: In sort out the reasons for the special commission. But I note that some people express and the assumption of the attack. I think this version also has a right to exist, all the more so in India tomorrow a national holiday - Independence Day. Maybe someone wanted to spoil the holiday ...

    Some have drawn parallels between the explosion and the death of the "Kursk". And there, and there torpedo bays ...


    IK: Yes, unfortunately, this parallel suggests itself. Only the "Kursk" was at sea submerged, and this boat was in the tank. But I repeat the most important thing: that the cause of this explosion is catastrophic for the ship and crew.

    And could the Russian experts who have upgraded it over the past few years, do something wrong?

    IK: The fact that the overhaul and modernization that took place on that submarine, as you yourself said, were for a long time. Of these, no less than six months passed mooring boat, navigation, state tests, etc. took part in them, of course, and Indian sailors themselves, as well as specialists, they have attracted. This indicates that all of the comments, flaws and faults have been eliminated. And the main evidence of good status of a submarine - it's her three-month long transition from the White Sea, from Severodvinsk, around Europe, Africa, the Indian Ocean to India.

    As for the Russian experts, this submarine is still in our warranty. And it is a common practice when the so-called group supervision warranty stays with the boat in India. They are there just for the fact that all these small imperfections and remove the comments, if necessary, call the contractors, etc. And as far as I know, no one has reported that on this boat there were any complaints, claims .

    By the way, according to media reports, Russian experts still do not admit to the place of incident. Is this normal?

    IK: First, of course, the commission, which is headed by Commander of the Indian Navy, will be to understand the state of emergency on their own. Agree, and we also do not attract foreign talent that we have something like this happens. But in this case, the Russian side has submitted a proposal to use in the commission of Representatives and the Design Bureau for Marine Engineering "Rubin", where the boat was designed, and the "Admiralty Shipyards", where it was built, and, of course, ship repair center "asterisk", where it was upgraded. We are ready to provide all possible assistance to the Indians, as this accident is not only important for the Indian Navy, but also for us in the first place. As for us, too, similar models are in service.

    And what can you say about the reputational losses for Russia because of this accident?

    IK: They have a place to be. And India is indeed one of the main exporters of our weapons, especially in the field of naval technology. Everyone knows that they have taken on lease for 10 years, our nuclear submarine "Nerpa", they are waiting for our aircraft carrier - the former "Admiral Gorshkov", they ordered the construction of the frigates.

    Therefore, our task now - to take an active part in the analysis of the accident, identify the problem and understand what may have happened to some of the most reliable boats that are built for more than 20 years and are in service with many navies.

    And I believe that our primary task is not that at all costs to prove that we are not responsible for the accident, and thoroughly understand its causes in order to ensure that this does not happen in the future. Loss of reputation, of course, important, but, in my opinion, they are secondary.

    And say a few words about this series of submarines. Why is it called the common people "from Warsaw?" What kind of weapon it is completed?

    IK: "Varshavyanka" her nickname because at the time we started building these submarines in the first place for us and for the countries - participants of the Warsaw Pact. These boats, as I said, are very simple to operate, not primitive, that is simple, reliable and has a good combat capabilities.

    And at the center of ship repair "asterisk" she went modernization that included installation of new avionics, navigation equipment, primarily new weapons. On board the boat was blown up 14 armed torpedoes and four anti-ship missiles of the joint Russian-Indian development.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:13 am

    Russian Deputy PM comment on the tragedy

    Rogozin: Technology is not considered as a cause of emergency with the submarine India

    "The very first information was that the explosion occurred in the compartment where the battery was charging for the submarine. This is the most dangerous job, which is not so much with the manufacturers of these units, but with the safety precautions that must be maintained at a high level. Therefore, the first suspicions of our experts - is likely to safety issues. While we're on the technique do not sin, "- said Rogozin, reports RIA "Novosti" .

    According to him, to seek the causes of the incident are already involved nine experts - they are now at the base of the submarine fleet in India. "And, of course, I ordered the leadership of the United Shipbuilding Corporation to send more experts in agreement with the Indian side to participate in the investigation of the tragedy and to provide full support to our Indian friends," - said Deputy Prime Minister.

    He believes that the main lift, has announced a technology or human error. "But whatever the result, India - this is our leading partner in not only the purchase of military equipment ready - that is our leading partner for the future establishment of a joint creation of special military equipment. We will help India to build capacity in this business ", - assured Rogozin.

    "We grieve together with our Indian friends as members of the crew were killed," - he concluded.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:00 am

    That was a horrifying way to die, RIP to the crew and condolences to their family.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:38 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/world/asia/india-submarine.html?ref=world&_r=2&

    I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor. They load at night and next morning was holiday. Explosion happened with last missiles, so I think, that at the end of loading they just want to finish quickly, but when you work quick, you are less careful and in a hurry, they could do something they should not do and tragedy happened.

    I think this is a lesson, that you have to be same careful when you load last missile as when you load first missile and all between.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:43 pm

    What kind of missiles explode or ignite and launch themselves into the dock when you accidentally scrape them against the hull a little, or don't fit them completely into the tube? So what if the crew were in a rush to load them? In a real crisis situation they could be woken up at 3 AM to load missiles, and would be tired and groggy and make the same sort of errors.

    Yet this sort of devastation shouldn't happen anyway; there are supposed to be multiple fail-safes because its a given that such mistakes can happen especially when loading armaments.

    Some serious fuck up somewhere here. It could just as easily lie at the feet of the Club-S manufacturers. Let's wait for more info.

    RIP to the dead; now that it's official and the chances of any more survivors are negligible.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:14 am

    medo wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/world/asia/india-submarine.html?ref=world&_r=2&

    I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor. They load at night and next morning was holiday. Explosion happened with last missiles, so I think, that at the end of loading they just want to finish quickly, but when you work quick, you are less careful and in a hurry, they could do something they should not do and tragedy happened.

    I think this is a lesson, that you have to be same careful when you load last missile as when you load first missile and all between.
    How can that be? Missiles have safe guards, they do not explode because it isn't inserted correctly. It was a cascade failure at the fault of NPO Novator. There has always been problems with quality control of Klub missiles, now it is deadly.


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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:17 am

    iirc Klub-S missiles launched from subs have an outer layer that peels away when the missile pops out of the water.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:07 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    medo wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/world/asia/india-submarine.html?ref=world&_r=2&

    I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor. They load at night and next morning was holiday. Explosion happened with last missiles, so I think, that at the end of loading they just want to finish quickly, but when you work quick, you are less careful and in a hurry, they could do something they should not do and tragedy happened.

    I think this is a lesson, that you have to be same careful when you load last missile as when you load first missile and all between.
    How can that be?  Missiles have safe guards, they do not explode because it isn't inserted correctly.  It was a cascade failure at the fault of NPO Novator.  There has always been problems with quality control of Klub missiles, now it is deadly.  
    Yes that's certainly one possibility, but it could be the fault of the crew/officers too.
    From what I understood; fail-safes or not (and there would typically be several not just one) - the missiles are not just supposed to 'explode' if they haven't been primed and armed. Or am I wrong?
    So why were the missiles in this state? Or maybe the launch tubes were?

    In all likelyhood it looks like the Klub-S manufacturers might be at fault in either case - it's just a question as to whether partially or completely.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:13 am

    I have never heard of Klub missiles having issues, even they are widely used.

    Are you guys making these accusations with any actual backing....or?

    We don't even know if the missile itself blew- on a submarine it could be many factors or dangerous gas buildup.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:04 am

    x2

    Club missiles and other Russian cruise missiles (like Granat) have been widely used for decades. Never heard of defects and/or safety issues.
    The tragic Indian submarine accident cause(s) have not been identified yet.

    Can we please stop the witch hunt.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:17 am

    NEW DELHI, August 19 (RIA Novosti) – Russian experts believe human error - or “mishandling of equipment” - could have caused the deadly explosions that sank a Russian-built Indian navy submarine last week, The Times of India has reported.

    The boat, INS Sindhurakshak, a Kilo-class (Project 877 EKM) diesel-electric powered vessel, sank at its moorings in the port of Mumbai on August 14 after a series of blasts devastated the vessel and triggered a fire. Six bodies have been found on board the sunken boat so far while the search continues for another 12 crew members.

    A team of Russian experts visiting Mumbai have ruled out “technical error or sabotage” as the cause of the accident, the report said. "The experts raised the possibility of mishandling of equipment as the reason" for the disaster, the newspaper said citing an unnamed source.

    The source claimed there was no chance that the accident was caused by a technical fault as the submarine is checked thoroughly - "also through computers" - before it goes to sea. The boat was due to set out on patrol on August 14, the paper said.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:26 pm

    medo wrote:I have a feeling, that there was nothing wrong with submarine neither with missiles. I think this was human factor.
    Nothing technically wrong with either the submarine or the missiles . Not entirely a human factor either .

    medo wrote:They load at night and next morning was holiday.
    It happened on the night of 13th Aug so next morning was not a holiday .


    Two KILO class submarines ( INS Sindhurakshak being one of them) were been prepared on that night & they were placed besides each other . So the same modus operandi for charging the batteries and loading the torpedos / missiles were being followed for both the subs. Had the modus operandi been faulty then both the subs would have exploded . But that did not happen . Infact the other KILO class sub sailed into the sea inspite of the explosion on the other sub.


    Catastrophoc damage to INS Sindhurakshak wasn't caused by warhead detonation at all, but by triggering of the propellants within the missiles/torpedoes.Had the warheads detonated, then the entire hull of the SSK would have lost structural integrity & salvaging of the hull would have been impossible.This was a case of the propellants of the on-board Novator 3M54E/3M14E cruise missiles burning off & detonating the two on-board TEST-71 torpedoes. Since the warheads of the missiles were not armed, they did not explode.

    The intensity of the blast threw 3 sailors who were standing near the starboard onto the sea . Due to the intensity of the fire and the pace at which it spread a majority of the sailors on board the sub simply vaporized .

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:16 pm

    Sujoy - so still nothing official yet?

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:40 pm

    Viktor wrote:Sujoy - so still nothing official yet?
    No Viktor . What I stated above is based on eye witness account and what the Defence Minister said in Parliament today .

    The enquiry committee that has been set up will take a minimum of 30 days to file a report .

    If you look at the video that I have posted it clearly shows a White ball of fire , meaning something combustible went off .

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  NationalRus on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:18 pm

    if it was a technal diffect with the submarine itself, then this will be a majorly huge shitstorm and PR disaster

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    INDIA STEALS NUCLEAR SUBMARINE TECHNOLOGY FROM US

    Post  NickM on Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:36 pm

    In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  macedonian on Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:00 pm

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    This is what I think of whenever someone mentions the NY Post and their 'superb form of journalism':
    jocolor

    I'll just be quoting something from an article on their home page:
    "I have a word of advice for American allies outraged by alleged NSA spying on their leaders: Grow up. That means you, Germany. You too, France. And you, Brazil. Mexico, too. Also the EU and the UN..."

    Now perhaps YOU to can GROW UP, and take your racist crap and PISS OFF back to your council estate in Luton (or Kilburn, or Brixton, or wherever the fcuk you're from)!

    ...or...here's an idea:

    You can move over to your cousins' place over in America(r), where you can live in a nice trailer park, and just feel more at home, and join the effin' Ku Klux Klan!
    Now bugger off!

    You lot have caused more problems in the world with your support for the Saudi Arabian wahhabism, the Chechnian terrorism, the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and [here] Macedonia, or the muslims terrorists in Kashmir (yes, INDIA) than the Indians ever have!
    So piss off you wanker, and take your 'white supremacy' crap with you, because I know what you lot are all about!

    And when you do, PLEASE NOTE that Britannia ain't ruling the seas no more, and that fact alone makes most of the white people in the world happy!!!
    Because you slimy bastards can play 'divide and conquer' with white nations no more!
    NOW PISS OFF!
    WANKER!

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:06 pm

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse than the Indians in something?

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  macedonian on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:20 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse  than the Indians in something?
    +1 for you my friend (и брат Smile )!

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:24 pm

    This really is not the best time for America to bitch about spying.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:54 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    Wait, doesn't this actually prove that your beloved anglosaxons are worse  than the Indians in something?

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:02 am

    NickM wrote:In yet another case of blatant Indian spying , India managed to steal valuable technical information related to nuclear submarines from the US.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/23/nj-contractor-admits-scamming-defense-department/
    India did to the US what the US does to a whole lot of other countries .

    Also , feast your eyes on this American surveillance activities

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:53 am

    What goes around comes around.

    Of course also bear in mind that this spying could be to upgrade the quality of Indian subs, but it could equally just be used to enhance targeting of US subs...


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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  spotter on Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:17 pm

    This doesnt necessarily mean anything special.
    The article, surprisingly or not, says nothing about the sub's class. Worse, it doesnt mention what "technical component" was compromised. It may well be a stupid plan of the crew compartments on the LA class.

    Regardless, this reminds me of the old, cheap US media practice "Wag the dog".
    Seems to me this is supposed to draw a spotlight away from spying Merkel for the last 11years.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:35 pm

    Has anyone any more information, is she raised yet and cause of explosion?


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