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    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:42 am

    Great vid... thanks for posting.

    It is hard to imagine operating such a vessel in the warm waters of the Indian Ocean... I would expect that dry suit would be more comfortable in northern waters where it is colder... but not that much more comfortable...

    With the submarine equivalent of the USUK vertical launch tubes even a Kilo class will become a potent SSG I suppose. The more so in Russian service because they could load Kh-102 and Kh-101 equivalent missiles for very long range land attack performance.

    Of course I hope their Lada class get its problems ironed out quickly as it will likely replace Kilo class subs in Russian service... and likely the Indian Navy might show some interest in them too.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:49 am

    [quote="GarryB"]Great vid... thanks for posting.

    It is hard to imagine operating such a vessel in the warm waters of the Indian Ocean... I would expect that dry suit would be more comfortable in northern waters where it is colder... but not that much more comfortable...

    Oh yes you bet we faced lot of problem with Kilo , I met a recently retired Naval Chief of IN and he mentioned to me in the tropical climate and warmer water of Arabian sea the Kilo batter would just knock off much faster and they had to replace the russian battery with german technology based Indian built one.

    Well the interesting part was he told me we got our 6 - 8 kilos almost free from Soviet Union , they gave us 20 years of credit with very nominal interest rates and indian finance ministry calculated it to be virtually free , need less to mention we did not gave them dollars but bartered leather products , tea , oil etc Smile

    With the submarine equivalent of the USUK vertical launch tubes even a Kilo class will become a potent SSG I suppose. The more so in Russian service because they could load Kh-102 and Kh-101 equivalent missiles for very long range land attack performance.

    Oh with Klub/Kilo combination the Admiral mentioned it was kick ass ( he did not used that word but lethal , the same admiral was instrumental in integrating Kilo with Klub which he mentioned the Russian did it in mere 6 months.)

    Of course I hope their Lada class get its problems ironed out quickly as it will likely replace Kilo class subs in Russian service... and likely the Indian Navy might show some interest in them too.

    I think Lada may get cancelled and no more then 3 will be built , they may move to new design with AIP propulsion

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:30 am

    I think Lada may get cancelled and no more then 3 will be built , they may move to new design with AIP propulsion

    Wouldn't it make more sense to put a new AIP into the Lada design?

    From what I have heard the only problem seems to be with the Sonar and it was being sorted.

    Personally I think AIPs are a bit over rated and that one of those nuclear batteries they designed for their satellites and space exploration would be much more useful in conventional subs than AIPs.

    Oh with Klub/Kilo combination the Admiral mentioned it was kick ass ( he
    did not used that word but lethal , the same admiral was instrumental
    in integrating Kilo with Klub which he mentioned the Russian did it in
    mere 6 months.)

    An excellent system, both for export, and even more so for domestic use as a wider range of missiles can be used, and the export missiles can be used in their domestic form with longer ranges.
    I would assume that if the Kh-101/2 can be used then the Kh-555 could be deployed too... I mean if the launcher can handle Brahmos and Oniks and Yakhont then a little missile like Kh-555 shouldn't be a problem at all.
    I would think the decline of the Russian navy in terms of platforms justifies the return of nuclear armed cruise missiles...

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:41 am

    GarryB wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to put a new AIP into the Lada design?

    From what I have heard the only problem seems to be with the Sonar and it was being sorted.

    Probably they could but the problem with Lada seems to be more serious then what it looks upfront , the lead boat is like nearly 5 years now and its still not fully operational with the Navy.

    If they are designing a boat with AIP in built , then they might as well design a new sub as well based on Lada and Kilo experience and avoiding past mistakes.

    Personally I think AIPs are a bit over rated and that one of those nuclear batteries they designed for their satellites and space exploration would be much more useful in conventional subs than AIPs.

    AIP too has its own quirks but right now its the most viable option , I am not sure if tea kettle reactor is a viable option right now and how feseable it will be to export it widely compared to AIP equipped ships and how expensive it would be to buy a new sub with such reactor and maintain over its life time.

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    Inside a Russian Kilo of the Indian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:55 am


    Probably they could but the problem with Lada seems to be more
    serious then what it looks upfront , the lead boat is like nearly 5
    years now and its still not fully operational with the Navy.

    The military has really only actually been spending money in the last 2 years or so, and so I don't think 5 years is too long under the circumstances... this is a new design after all, not series production.

    From what I can tell most AIP are expensive anyway, so a small nuclear power generator that can be used to keep the sub working (ie heat or cooling oxygen production and CO2 scrubbing) and trickle charge the batteries so that after a period of hiding submerged she doesn't need to surface, but can sail away underwater at low speed and snorkel a week or two later miles from there to fully charge up the batteries for high speed running would be much better. Fuel cells require liquid oxygen storage... which in many ways is actually worse than HTP regarding safety.

    If they are designing a boat with AIP in built , then they might as well
    design a new sub as well based on Lada and Kilo experience and avoiding
    past mistakes.

    It all depends on what the problems are of course... no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    AIP too has its own quirks but right now its the most viable option , I
    am not sure if tea kettle reactor is a viable option right now and how
    feseable it will be to export it widely compared to AIP equipped ships
    and how expensive it would be to buy a new sub with such reactor and
    maintain over its life time.

    Maintain? These are power supplies used in deep space probes or satellites in orbits that mean they don't get continuous sunlight for solar panels. The Navies Legenda satellites used them to power the space based radars for Granit et al. They are about 4m long and 1m height and 1m depth and they simply generate a supply of electricity for about 13 years. It could be treated like a battery.
    For export subs they can let the customer decide whether they want a German AIP or something else.
    For India... they can keep the nuclear power plant... the Charlie class leased to India and the Nerpa class are both nuclear.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  f-insas on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:55 am

    what will be the range of these cruise missiles ,and besides what difference it will have with the brahmos missile

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:03 am

    The max range is 300km and they are low and slow flying missiles.

    Compared to Brahmos they are smaller, lighter, with a similar range, with a 400kg payload but a lot less kinetic energy on impact as they are much slower.

    There is however a family member of the Sizzler that has a multi stage missile where the first stage is a solid rocket booster that launches the missile into the air where a subsonic jet engine starts up and propels the missile at high subsonic speed at very low altitude for about 200km and then the last stage of the missile fires with a solid rocket with the seeker and warhead accelerates to about mach 3 for the last 30-40km to impact with the target.

    It has the benefit of relatively long range and stealth by flying low without a huge IR signature, and then for the last phase of the attack where it would be most vulnerable it accelerates to very high speed to skip through the defences and hit the target.

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    Fleet tanker 'INS Shakti' inducted into Indian Navy

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:51 pm

    Fleet tanker 'INS Shakti' inducted into Indian Navy

    IRNA - Islamic Republic News Agency

    New Delhi, Oct 1, IRNA -- Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma Saturday said that induction of Fleet Tanker INS Shakti would mark beginning of a new era of state-of-the-art technologies for the Indian Navy.

    INS Shakti was commissioned at Naval Dockyard at Visakhapatnam in Andhra Pradesh state, today.

    'The ship enhances the reach of the Navy well beyond the limits of the Indian Ocean,' Verma said.

    He congratulated the Fincantieri Shipyard of Italy, which constructed the tanker, for delivering it in time.

    Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command, Vice Admiral Anup Singh said that INS Shakti would double the strength of the fleet at the Eastern Naval Command.

    175 metres long and 32 metres wide, Shakti would be one of the largest ships of the Navy. It is capable of carrying over 15,000 tons of liquid cargo including fuels for ships and aircraft, as well as fresh water. It can also carry upto 500 tons of solid cargo like provisions and ammunition.

    It is fitted with indigenous Anti-Missile Defence Chaff system.

    Italian Ambassador to India Giacomo Sanfelice D'Monteforte and Chief of Naval Staff, Eastern Naval Command, Vice Admiral Sunil Lanba too were present.

    Later, talking to reporters after the commissioning ceremony, the Navy Chief said that INS Shakti, the second of the two fleet tankers built by Fincantieri Shipyard, would be the biggest tanker ship acquired by the Indian Navy yet.

    2160**1412
    Islamic Republic News Agency/IRNA NewsCode: 30590139


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/india/2011/india-111001-irna01.htm

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:56 pm

    India to induct 29 Mig-29K in Navy within two years: Navy Chief

    IRNA - Islamic Republic News Agency

    New Delhi, Oct 1, IRNA -- Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma Saturday said that more Mig-29K class air fighter air-craft and helicopters would be inducted into the Indian Navy in the next two years.

    Talking to media after commissioning of INS Shakti, a fleet tanker, at the Naval Dockyard in Visakhapatnam in Andhra Pradesh state today, he said 29 MIG-29K aircraft and sixteen helicopters would be acquired within two years, pti reported. Earlier, 16 aircraft of this class, (12 fighter and 4 trainee aircraft) had been acquired.

    The Navy Chief also said that aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya would be delivered to the Indian Navy as per the schedule, and Italy was extending cooperation for another aircraft carrier, being built by the Cochin shipyard.

    To a question, he said the naval surveillance along the coast had been strengthened in association with the Coast Guard and Marine Police. Fishermen too were being roped in, he said.

    Navy and Coast Guard were creating awareness among the fishermen community for this purpose, he said.

    Regarding rehabilitation package for those who had lost lands for the alternative naval base at Rambilli Mandal in the district, Verma said the Centre and the Navy had accepted the rehabilitation package submitted by the district administration and the state government, and Centre had released the funds.

    2160**1771
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    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/india/2011/india-111001-irna02.htm

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    Type 214 vs Amur 1650 Submarines: A Layman's analysis

    Post  DrSomnath999 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:53 pm

    PLZ NOTE ANYONE HAVING DIFFICULTY VIEWING THE PICS THEN KINDLY SAVE IT TO UR COMPUTER & THEN ZOOM IT FOR BETTER VIEW
    1.INTRODUCTION


    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE
    • It is a new  4th gen diesel electric ,export  version submarine which is have been laid down at the Admiralteiskiye Verfi
     state-owned shipyard in St. Petersburg.Designed to destroy hostile submarines and surface ships, to protect friendly naval   bases, seacoast and communications, as well as to carry out reconnaissance missions.

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE
    • The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It features diesel   propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel   cells. The Type 214 submarine is derived from the Type 212, but as an export variant it lacks some of the classified   technologies of its smaller predecessor.

     It is well equipped to undertake a wide scope of missions ranging from operations in littoral waters to ocean-going   patrols. The modular weapon and sensor mix, in combination with the submarine's air-independent features, makes the Class   214 predestined for
     •anti-surface ship and anti-submarine operations
     •intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance tasks
     •Special Forces operations.
    http://www.hdw.de/en/class-214.html


    2.SIZE

    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE
    • surface displacement: 1765 m³ /1,675 tons
    • Submerged displacement:2500-2600 m³/2,800 tons
    • length: 66.8 m
    • pressure hull diameter: 7.1 m
    • Height :8.2m
    http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/fileadmin/editor/listovki/Amur_1650_eng.pdf
    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/677.htm

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

    • surface displacement:1,690 t (surface)
    • Submerged displacement:1,860 t (Submerged)
    • length: 213 feet 3 inches (65 m)
    • pressure hull diameter: 20 feet 8 inches (6.3 m)
    • Height :19 feet 8 inches (6 m)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_214_submarine
    http://www.jeuxfrancophone.com/francois/smfiles/212-214-Scorp.html

    so amur 1650 is considerably larger sub than type 214 sub

    3.PERFORMANCE

    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE
    • Speed:19 kts (submerged)
    • Diving depth:300m-(maximum)
    • Range: (AIP) 300 -500 nm
          :(snorkel),4000 -6000nm
    http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/fileadmin/editor/listovki/Amur_1650_eng.pdf
    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/677.htm

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

    • Speed:20 kt submerged /  fuel cells: 2-6 kt estimated
    • Diving depth: more than 250 m officially, 400 m estimated
    • Range:  420 nmi @ 8 kt (780 km @ 15 km/h) submerged
          :  1,248 nmi @ 4 kt (2,310 km @ 7 km/h) fuel cells
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_214_submarine

    so type 214 has much better performance in terms of range & speed & DIVING DEPTH as compare to AMUR 1650 SUB

    4.STRUCTURE



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE

    •Amur 1650 is a single-hull, single-shaft submarine with two reserve propulsors.

    •The submarine has a solid hull made of unique highstrength steel alloys,

    •According to Rubin, the ship features a new efficient antisonar coating of the hull new generation “Molniya” (“Lightning”).

    •The submarine hull also has a new multi-layered rubber cover providing almost complete absorption of own noises
    generated by submarine mechanisms, and sonar echo signals.

    • The submarine, its propulsion plant, machinery and weapons systems can be controlled either from the main control room or  from separate battle stations.

    http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/navy/navy_10-14.pdf
    http://spsnavalforces.net/ebook/21032011.pdf
    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html


    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

    •Type 214 is a single hull,& made up of HY-80/HY-100 High Tensile steel

    A hull shape, which has been further optimised for hydrodynamic and stealth characteristics, and a low-noise propeller  combine to decrease the submarine's acoustic signature.

    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

    well structurally both are   built   keeping stealth as top priority in construction ,but AMUR 1650 external structure coating is better compare to type 214 ,while Type 214 hull sectioning & shaping are more stealth optimized than AMUR 1650


    5.PROPULSION



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE

    • The submarine's propulsion system integrates two diesel generators, a main electric propulsion motor, two air independent     propulsion (AIP) systems and a single shaft driving on a skewed seven-bladed propeller

    • An Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system based on oxygen-hydrogen fuel cells is being offered for Amur-class submarines     as option to achieve extended immersion endurance.


    • The new diesel-electric propulsion system is arranged in a modular compartment which can be plugged into the basic         submarine. A radio electronic equipment of a new generation, variable-speed permanent-magnet propulsion motor and storage     battery with increased service life are provided to the 4th generation Russian non-nuclear submarine.


    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-677-lada-class-project-1650-amur-class-submarines/
    http://www.deagel.com/Conventional-Attack-Submarines/Amur-1650_a000362002.aspx
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/677.htm

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

    • In the current design, propulsion is provided by two MTU 16 V 396 engines (2,000 kW) serving a 600-900 V propulsion battery with a fully integrated auxiliary AIP system based on two PEM (polymer electrolyte membrane ) 120 kW fuel cell modules.

    • The propulsion motor is a Siemens Permasyn (type FR6439-3900 KW) low-speed permanently excited electric motor driving a       Low-noise, skewback 7- blade propeller.
    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm
    http://www.jeuxfrancophone.com/francois/smfiles/212-214-Scorp.html

    • It has an electrical propulsion system based on a silver oxide and aluminium battery.

    well TYPE 214 SUBMARINE has much better propulsion than AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE thanks to it's better & efficient AIP system although both have skewed seven-bladed propeller .

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  DrSomnath999 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:59 pm

    6.AIP SYSTEM (POWER SUPPLY)


    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE

    • The provision is made for the boat to be fitted with an air-independent propulsion plant with electrochemical generators to considerably increase submerged endurance and cruising range. The plant with stock of reagents is located in a special compartment module, which can be incorporated into the submarine during construction or repair / refit.

    http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/en/projects/naval_engineering/conventional_submarines/amur_1650/

    •. According to estimates, Kristall-27E AIP system will increase the Amur Class submarines' submerged endurance by 15 to 45 days (the longer endurance is ensured by a short-term operation of the diesel engine in the snorkeling mode).

    •The Kristall-27E AIP plant, featuring the intermetallid storage of hydrogen, cryogenic storage of oxygen and low-temperature electrochemical generator with alkali matrix electrolyte, fully meets all requirements including those of fire/detonation safety, and can beat the AIP system of Project 212 submarines, surpassing it in terms of fuel efficiency and shore-based support facilities due to the availability of dedicated autonomous shore-based refueling complex.

    •The shore-based refueling complex does not integrally belong to the AIP system. However, it can be supplied optionally: this feature contributes to the competitiveness of the Russian project. Customer will receive in a single package the autonomous refueling complex which will provide hydrogen and oxygen for the submarine's AIP system in peace and war time
    http://milparade.udm.ru/29/022.htm
    http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/kristall-aip-submarine-alternative-t50360.html

    RECENT UPDATES

    •TsKB Rubin is testing an AIP generator for submarines, RIAN reported in Sep 13 according to Rubin's Gen Director Andrey Dyachkov. He criticized the German hydrogen elements for flammability of their storage. The currently developed Russian AIP is built on the same electro-chemical generation principle, as hydrogen elements, but uses different less flammable reagents. The chemical ingredients used in the new AIP are not disclosed however. Like foreign analogs the last Russian AIP is built in plug-in module. Dyachkov also said Rubin is working in parallel to improve the lithium-ion batteries for subs. Currently the installation of lithium-ion batteries allows to make underwater time longer on 40%, while it's only 35-40% of the theoretically limits of this technology.
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20110913/436639922.html

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE
    • Performance of the AIP system has been increased withtwo Siemens PEM fuel cells which produce 120kW per module

    • In Type 214 submarines the two BZM 120 fuel cell modules are connected to the ship’s power system via a DC/DC converter
    allowing adaptation of the fuel cell power plant to different battery voltage levels .This becomes
    important in retrofit projects in which an integrated fuel cell system, consisting of the fuel cells, oxygen and hydrogen
    storage tanks, control system, process equipment and product water tanks,is integrated into an already existing submarine during a major overhaul.

    • These service proven components completely satisfy military specification requirements with respect to magnetic signature,
    low electrical stray field characteristics, system safety standards, acoustic properties, and shock/vibration criteria.
    http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/Internet/MarineComm/General/Docs/Siemens%20Presents%20Fuel%20Cell%20at%20the%20Advance%20Naval%20Propulsion%20Symposium.pdf

    Endurance: 3 weeks without snorkeling, 12 weeks overall
    Using the AIP system on submerged patrol and intercept missions enables the boat to remain submerged for up to 13 days at a speed of 4 kt. Submerged sprint speeds of between 16 and 20+ kt are possible for periods of a few hours several times during a 50 day mission. At a speed of 6 kt the mission range is almost 12,000 n miles. Endurance will be 84 days.The fuel cell works at an operating temperature of 70 to 80ºC, which makes the submarine difficult to detect using external heat sensors.

    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm

    Regarding AIP system TYPE 214 SUBMARINE has a better Siemens PEM fuel cells(BZM 120)AIP system which give sub much more endurance days & energy efficient AIP system as compare to AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE's Kristall-27E AIP system.But russian AIP systems are claimed to be more safer as compare to german AIP system as they use less flammable reagents as claimed by russians.Russians are now currently working & developing 3rd gen AIP system which can give them nearly 90 days endurance
    http://milparade.udm.ru/29/022.htm



    7.SENSOR SYSTEMS



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE
    (I)SONARS:
    • The sonar system comprises highly sensitive passive transducers and electronic equipment, which make it possible to detect even low-noise submarines and surface ships at long ranges. The submarine carries a towed transducer, which is dispensed from the top vertical tail fin.
    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html

    • The sonar complex is outfitted with a highly sensitive passive array, the area of which exceeds the area of array on the previous generation submarines by several times.
    http://www.deagel.com/Conventional-Attack-Submarines/Amur-1650_a000362002.aspx

    • Technology has been developed and mastered for installation of a quasi-conformal (abutting to the hull of the submarine) antenna of “LIRA” sonar system;The Lira sonar system with quasi-conformal (abutting the hull of the submarine) antenna can detect low-noise targets located at long ranges.
    http://www.admship.ru/en/19
    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-677-lada-class-project-1650-amur-class-submarines/


    (II)ELECTRONICs :
    • The radar system is equipped with passive and active antennas arranged on the non-penetrating mast. The radar system furnishes surface situation data, detects and classifies targets, as well as generates targeting and IFF data.

    • The commander’s periscope has two channels: optical and TV. A multipurpose periscope (optronic mast) is of a non- penetrating type. It has a thermal imager and a laser range finder. The boat’s communications facilities provide for reliable communication, both underwater and on the surface, with shore-based installations, ships and aircraft.
    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html

    • Submarine and its weapons are efficiently controlled by automated command and control system with operators’ consoles in the main control room. The system provides highspeed sensor data exchange, processing,analysis, and presentation of
    the integrated information on operators’panels.

    • The onboard inertial navigation system ensures safe navigation and determination of submarine motion parameters with
    precision required for missile employment.
    http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/navy/navy_10-14.pdf

    • The submarine is fitted with Litiy automated combat control system. The integrated system controls the combat and technical systems of the submarine.
    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-677-lada-class-project-1650-amur-class-submarines/

    • The countermeasures are provided by the electronic support measures (ESM) system, radar warning receiver and direction finder.

    • Accordingly, the Amur 1650’s communications system is equipped to pick up command and information messages at a depth of up to 100 meters.

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE
    (I)SONARS:
    • The sonar suite CSU 90 (DBQS-40FTC) includes following types of sonar:
    * cylindrical array (CAH) for medium frequency passive detection
    * FAS-3-1 flank array sonar for low/medium-frequency detection
    * thin line towed array (TAS) for low frequencies in a medium self-noise environment (fitted for)
    * passive ranging sonar PRS-3-15 for calculation of target data
    * active sonar (CTA) , for determination of target range and bearing.
    * Intercept array sonar for detection of active emissions of surface ships.
    * The active high-frequency mine detection sonar (MAS) is the MOA 3070.

    (II)ELECTRONICs :
    • The command, sensor and weapon control outfit comprises the STN ATLAS Elektronik ISUS 90-15 system upgraded to provide increased low frequency detection range.

    • It has SPHINX-D with 4Kw pulse and tactical LPI radar sensor by Thales Defence Deutschland GmbH in Kiel. It uses an additional pulse transmitter in the top of the mast.The radar sensor is a FMCW transceiver which can't be detected by ESM systems in medium terms. This technology is so called LPI radar, which means "Low probability of intercept". The transmitting power is lower than the power of a mobile phone but the resolution more precise compared to high power Pulse radar. Thales SPHINX radar is a tactical radar, designed for submarines.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_214_submarine


    • It is equipped with an attack periscope, an electro-optic mast OMS-100 (both manufactured by Zeiss) . The optronic mast will be equipped by thermal camera , laser range finder and low lightness TV (LLLTV) .

    Periscopes: Carl Zeiss SERO 14, with FLIR and optical rangefinder
    Carl Zeiss SERO 15, with laser rangefinder

    • Decoys:TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system

    A consortium led by STN ATLAS Elektronik and Allied Signal ELAC is responsible for the development of the TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system. TAU 2000 has four launch containers, each with up to ten discharge tubes equipped with effectors. The effectors are small underwater vehicles, similar in appearance to a torpedo. The effectors are jammers and decoys with hydrophones and acoustic emitters. Multiple effectors are deployed in order to counter torpedoes in re-attack mode.In the occasion of upcoming torpedo 3 jammers and 2 decoys will be fired from the system.
    http://www.jeuxfrancophone.com/francois/smfiles/212-214-Scorp.html
    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm
    http://cakra401.blogspot.com/2009/11/u212-u214-attack-submarines.html

    • ESM:TIMNEX II(Elbit)
    Elbit Systems' TIMNEX submarine ESM/ELINT system is an advanced tactical & intelligence gathering system. The unique receiver technology offers excellent sensitivity to detect, analyze, identify and counter a full spectrum of sophisticated emitters in extremely dense electromagnetic environments.

    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm
    http://www.elbitsystems.com/elbitmain/area-in2.asp?parent=10&num=87&num2=87

    • Other systems include inertial platform, attitude and heading reference equipment, EM-log, echo-sounder and GPS. All sensors and weapons are controlled via five multipurpose consoles of the ISUS 90-15.
    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm

    well regarding sensor system ,here TYPE 214 SUBMARINE has a clear edge over AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE. As TYPE 214 SUB's sonar suite CSU 90 (DBQS-40FTC) is technologically highly superior to AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE's LIRA sonar system .
    TYPE 214 SUB's SPHINX-D with 4Kw pulse and tactical LPI radar sensor is a cutting edge technolgy .& also addition TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system & Electronic Support Measures :TIMNEX II(Elbit)adds more teeth to it's capabilty .
    SO here AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE is completly overwhelmed TYPE 214 SUBMARINE










    8.CREW CAPACITY & PROVISION



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE

    Crew: 35

    • The submarine design takes into account the ecological requirements. Provision is made for installing the equipment used to clean bilge water from oil products, decontamination of wastewater, briquetting of rubbish and food cans, as well as
    crushing of garbage.

    • The submarine’s crew is accommodated in comfortable cabins. The boat has a dinette, pantry, air-conditioners, air cleaners and regenerators.

    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE
    Crew:
    27 (including five officers)


    • The Type 214 can carry food, fresh water and fuel for 84 days of operation.
    http://cakra401.blogspot.com/2009/11/u212-u214-attack-submarines.html
    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_214_submarine

    Well TYPE 214 SUBMARINE has less crew members compare to AMUR 1650 SUb & both have almost same comfort & provisions .Well one can only point out 19-20 difference between the two on this ground .



    9.FIRE POWER



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE
    • The boat is distinguished by the capability of firing up to 6 missiles in a salvo from all Torpedo Tubes at the bow against sea and fixed land targets state-of-the-art electronic warfare systems and a sonar with a unique passive antenna to detect silent targets at a large range.

    http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/en/projects/naval_engineering/conventional_submarines/amur_1650/

    •These ships may be fitted with [COLOR="red"]vertical launch missile silos if customer demanded
    http://www.deagel.com/Conventional-Attack-Submarines/Amur-1650_a000362002.aspx

    • The submarine’s armament includes multipurpose torpedoes, antisubmarine rocket-assisted torpedoes, cruise missiles and mines.
    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html

    • TORPEDOES: It has 6 x 533mm torpedo launchers/tubes & can carry 18 TORPEDOES (533)
    i)[B]VA-111 Shkval supercavitating torpedoes. They are capable of speeds in excess of 200 knots

    All current versions are believed to be fitted only with conventional explosive warheads,
    Range: Around 7 km to 13 km (new version).
    http://milit.ru/677.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

    • MISSILES : i)Brahmos supersonic AsCM/LACM ,
    range:290km either tube launched (most likely) or vertical launched on demand
    Flight altitude: Sea-skimming as low as 10 m (30 feet)
    speed:Mach 2.8-3.0
    Warhead: 300 kg Conventional semi-armour-piercing

    ii)Klub S AsCM/LACM/ anti submarine missile (91RE1 / 91RE2)
    range: 275-300 km tube launched
    Flight altitude:10-15 m
    speed:0.8-2.5-2.9 mach flies at subsonic speeds while going supersonic as it nears its target.
    Warhead:Conventional semi-armour-piercing



    • MINES : PMK-2 ANTI-SUBMARINE MINE SYSTEM
    The caliber of the PMK-2 weapon is 533 mm and its length is not more than 6 m. The distinguishing feature of these systems is that though they are basically active mines, they attack targets themselves. The equipment of these mine systems detects and classifies an underwater target, determines its course and running depth, optimizes the target intercept trajectory and generates a command to launch either a rocket, which runs at a speed of about 80 m/s, or torpedo.
    http://milit.ru/mines.htm

    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE
    • It has 8 x 533mm torpedo tubes & All tubes can launch torpedoes and four are configured with weapon expulsion system supporting missiles.
    http://defense-update.com/products/t/type214.htm

    • TORPEDOES: SEEHECHT ( Sea Hake )/DM2A4 mod 4 Torpedo (With eight torpedoes positioned ready & total payload of 16.)
    It features an advanced electrical propulsion system and a fiber optic cable for torpedo guidance and communication, which, in conjunction with advanced signals processing and mission logic, makes the torpedo largely countermeasure resistant.
    The DM2A4/SeaHake mod 4 is the first torpedo ever to be guided by a fiber optic wire.
    The weapon has a modular design that includes up to four silver zinc battery modules and is able to achieve a range of more than 50 km (27 nm) and a speed exceeding 92.6 km/h (50 kt) powered by a high frequency permanent magnet motor, with a closed-loop cooling system independent from the environment.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DM2A4
    The DM2A4 differs to an appreciable degree from the predecessor model, the DM2A3. The innovations include the extremely powerful electrical propulsion system, the control and data transmission via fibre-optic instead of copper cable, the replacement of the mechanical gyro by a strap-down system using fibre-optic gyros, and the wake homing sensors.
    http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/197/

    • MISSILES : i)IDAS short-range missile
    IDAS (Interactive Defence and Attack System for Submarines) is a short-range missile currently being developed for the new Type 212 submarine class of the German Navy.IDAS (based on the IRIS-T air-to-air missile) is primarily targeted against air threats, such as ASW helicopters, but also against small or medium-sized surface vessels or coastal land targets. IDAS will be fibre-optic guided and officially has a range of approx. 20 km. Four missiles will fit in one torpedo tube, stored in a magazine.
    The IDAS system is also the world's first missile which gives submarines the capability to engage air threats whilst submerged, and the first tube-launched missile that does not emerge in a capsule, but is fired directly from the torpedo tubes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDAS_(missile)
    http://www.europeansecurityanddefence.info/Ausgaben/2008/3_2008/06_Bredick/Bredick_ESD_0308.pdf

    ii) Sub harpoon

    Harpoon is an all-weather, over-the-horizon, anti-ship missile system, the UGM-84, fitted with a solid-fuel rocket booster and encapsulated in a container to enable submerged launch through a torpedo tube
    •Range : RGM/UGM-84D (Block 1C): 140 km (75 nmi)
    •Speed: High subsonic, around 850 km/h (460 knots, 240 m/s, or 530 mph)
    •Guidance: Sea-skimming cruise monitored by radar altimeter, active radar terminal homing
    •Warhead: 221 kilograms (490 lb), penetration high-explosive blast
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/type-214-specs.htm

    • MINES :24 external naval mines (optional)

    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE has a advantage of supersonic ANTISHIP cruise missile /LACM likes of brahmos over TYPE 214 SUB & that too at capabilty of firing SIX missiles in a salvo,while it gives an extra option Of VLS capability too on demand of customer.While Type 214 sub lacks an effective antiship cruise/lacm having sub sonic SUB HARPOON missile & it can only do that with 4 tubes While AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE has 18 torpedoes capabilty & TYPE 214 SUB has 16 torpedoes capabilty while skhval torpedoes are more faster & has less range compare to DM2A4 mod 4 Torpedo so advantage nullified for amur 1650 sub against TYPE 214 SUB.While mines capabilty AMUR 1650 has the advantage ,but one thing that clearly gives TYPE 214 SUB a unique capabilty is the ability to launch to engage air threats whilst submerged, and to have the first tube-launched missile that does not emerge in a capsule, but is fired directly from the torpedo tubes through IDAS missile, which AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE doesnt have .

    SO overall AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE has more fire power than TYPE 214 SUB thanks to brahmos missile & also with VLS capability on
    demand by customer















    10.STEALTH



    AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE

    • The low noise level of the submarine’s equipment and systemic utilization of advanced acoustic protection facilities provide for reduction of the noise level produced by Amur-1650 by several times than that of other submarines of this class.
    http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-26-164.html

    • A new technology has been introduced for application of the anti-sonar coating of the new generation “Molniya” (“Lightning”).

    http://www.admship.ru/en/19

    • The AIP system based on oxygen / hydrogen fuel cells increases the Lada Class submerged endurance from 15 to 45 days. It also reduces noise by avoiding the need for frequent battery recharge by diesel generators.

    • An anechoic tile coating on the outer hull reduces noise & a skewed seven-bladed propeller.
    http://army.russiansabroad.com/detail.aspx?id=navy&detail=amur1650

    • According to Russian reports, it is one of the most quiet and lethal submarines ever built.



    TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

    • A hull shape, which has been further optimised for hydrodynamic and stealth characteristics, and a low-noise propeller combine to decrease the submarine's acoustic signature.Thus, the hull design and its hydrodynamic form emphasise stealth capabilities, offering good low signature features including both self-generated noise and flow noise and magnetic signature.

    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/
    http://s7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsforum/ar/t109.htm


    • The propelling power is provided by a seven-blade Skew-Back propeller whose extremely low rotation speed prevents cavity and which gener­ates thrust silently even at high speeds.

    SPHINX Radar System is a FMCW transceiver which can't be detected by ESM systems in medium terms. This technology is so called LPI radar, which means "Low probability of intercept". The transmitting power is lower than the power of a mobile phone but the resolution more precise compared to high power Pulse radar. Thales SPHINX radar is a tactical radar, designed for submarines.


    • A submarine that uses fuel cells rather than a diesel engine to recharge its batteries produces much less sound while doing and consequently the effective detection range of many of the current passive acoustic sonobuoys is reduced.
    Using the Siemens PEM fuel cells enabled AIP system the Type 214 sub on submerged patrol and intercept missions enables the boat to remain submerged for up to 13 days at a speed of 4 kt. Submerged sprint speeds of between 16 and 20+ kt are possible for periods of a few hours several times during a 50 day mission. At a speed of 6 kt the mission range is almost 12,000 n miles. Endurance will be 84 days.The fuel cell works at an operating temperature of 70 to 80ºC, which makes the submarine difficult to detect using external heat sensors.

    so both sub are designed specifically bearing in stealth in mind ,while AMUR 1650 SUB has better suface coating & materials
    while TYPE 214 SUB has better AIP & LPI sphinx radar along with stealthy hull cross section & shaping which gives Type 214
    a edge over amur 1650 in terms of stealth .





    CONCLUSION

    Well before jumping into conclusion we should take into consideration those negative points which are alleged against TYPE 214 SUBMARINE like
    1. Hellenic navy reported many problems
    * instability while traveling on the surface, the boat rolls excessively in bad weather.
    * Attack periscope vibrates at speeds greater than 3 knots;
    * The air-independent propulsion system has lower output power than specified; the unit must be shut down after several hours of sailing due to higher than normal operating temperatures;
    * Increased propeller cavitations;
    * Seawater leakage into hydraulic systems;
    * Problems with the proper function of the flank arrays.

    http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/dec06-52.php
    well one may argue that these are deliberate tactics by greece which had bankrupt economy & couldnt afford to procure such sub so that to avoid payment for these subs by giving these excuses.But irony is korea also had some similar problems but
    majority of them have been resolved .
    http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/03/15/2008031500137.html
    While these problems in the South Korean Type 214s have been reportedly resolved, the noise level has yet to be reduced as promised by HDW. The company was fined $4.1 million by DAPA in February 2008 for ongoing technical problems. In November, a South Korean National Assembly demanded price reductions for the remaining six submarines, arguing that HDW was using the South Korean market to correct faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential. It is uncertain if DAPA received a price reduction for the fourth unit when it was contracted to DSME.
    http://www.seapower-digital.com/seapower/seapower_sample/?pg=52#pg52.
    But all in all many problems in TYPE 214 has been resolved .

    LAYMAN'S REPORT CARD


    So one can clearly see that TYPE 214 sub excels in allmost all department in comparision to AMUR 1650 sub, leaving aside certain few departments .
    Well clear advantage AMUR 1650 SUB has over TYPE 214 sub is
    * SIZE
    * FIRE POWER (BRAHMOS MISSILE)
    * VLS CAPABILITY


    Well that criteria is also going to be overcomed as HDW has started development of TYPE 216 SUB to fullfill the criteria of
    INDIAN NAVY's PROJECT 75 I programme




    TYPE 216 SUB


    EXTRA FEATURES

    • Bigger size Length: 89 m; Breadth: 8.1 m ;Maximum Draft: 6.6 m

    • Double hull design.

    • AIP system enabled which gives it endurance of 80 days same as nuclear sub

    • Vertical Launch System (2.5 m diameter to deploy cruise missiles or UUV)

    • Swimmer Delivery Vehicle (SDV) to deploy special forces


    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=264
    http://submarinersworld.blogspot.com/2012/01/german-type-216-u-216-conventional.html

    Well India can also make provision to have brahmos fitted into TYPE 216 also ,and later it can also be armed with NIRBHAY Sub launched LACM missile.So with all the extra features & correction of almost all faults from TYPE 214 sub , HDW's next
    gen TYPE 216 SUB looks the best eligible contender for INDIAN NAVY's PROJECT 75 I programme.

    [SIZE="4"]FROM THE AUTHOR:[/SIZE]
    I had tried my level best to present & give as much accurate information on both the subs i could find .Well
    after all this is a layman's analysis not professional so mistakes can also happen ,& i would welcome all ur views & suggestion if i am wrong on any grounds.
    I hope everyone would like & appreciate my hard work & most importantly distinguish which SUB suits our future defence needs


    THANK U


    GarryB
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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:46 am

    The problem is we are talking about new and largely unknown vessels.

    The 214 has had a lot of problems and they have been worked on and dealt with.

    The Amur will likely not be perfect either, and will need work to get everything right.

    What you have posted seems to point to superiority for the German sub in many areas, but I suspect that the practical differences in service will not be as big as the major differences like the VLS system in the Amur which should be able to launch Brahmos and Klub.

    Amur is currently fitted with Krystal but the Russians are working on all new systems and upgraded batteries.

    Of course the other fundamental problem is that India seems to want mixed fleets and mixed sources for kit, so winning this competition might cut the Russians out of a more lucrative deal somewhere else, so it becomes a very strategic thing.

    Do you try to win this and miss out on something that will earn you more money in the future?

    BTW regarding your information, the Amur can carry a sub version of the PAKET-E/NK, which is basically an anti torpedo torpedo, which I would think is just as good as a torpedo countermeasure... in fact its hard kill capabilities makes it even better than a simple decoy system.

    At the end of the day to decision comes down to value for money as I would suspect both vessels will be able to do the job at hand.

    I am biased and I pick the Amur. Smile

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:25 am

    I doubt the Indian Navy will buy the Type 214/216 that cannot launch the Brahmos.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Austin on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:41 am

    DrSomnath999 , You have done a great deal of writing and research on this but your conclusion are all wrong.

    It is really not easy to compare submarines just by quoting few website and then doing a comparision without any substantial data to support it , in the end if you data are half baked or wrong in some cases you conclusion will be all wrong.

    My personal opinion is right now U-216/214/212 is a better submarine becuase its operational in German navies and is opted for other navies and yes there are still some teething problem.

    But in the long run Amur 1650 is a better submarine in price/effectiveness ,weapons and sensors.

    636M should be compared with U-212 , the advantage I see with U-212 is its AIP and modern Combat Control system , but beyond that both are same.

    In Indian Navy and speaking with some submariners , they rate the Kilo submarine very high and swear by it.


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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:07 pm

    Well Amour1650 is out of competition cozz while roughly equivalent on aspect of silence, AIP, range etc it carries VLS packed with 10 missiles of Club-S/Brahmos etc witch gives them unprecedented firepower no other sub can match.

    Given silence of all subs and given overall India supremacy in subs over Pakistan it is not likely Amour/Type214/Scorpene would be used for sub vs sub and
    in that case packed with VLS missiles is of greater importance.

    Ability to launch a attack of 10 missiles on Pakistan navy convey, military ships and sea installations, bases on sea and inland is without exception what rockets Amour sub above all other.

    I bet Amour will set standards for all subs because of VLS/Club-S system and from now on most of the subs will be designed with VLS witch will give subs rapid attack capability.

    Because of that Amour could get huge export potential. Just imagine Syria/Iran armed with 6 of those lurking around being able to pop out 60 3M-54E supersonic missiles + torpedoes while carriers and destroyers and etc are around.

    No other sub can match that.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  DrSomnath999 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:34 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:I doubt the Indian Navy will buy the Type 214/216 that cannot launch the Brahmos.
    well type 216 can be made provision to launch Brahmos

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  DrSomnath999 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:38 pm

    Austin wrote:

    My personal opinion is right now U-216/214/212 is a better submarine becuase its operational in German navies and is opted for other navies and yes there are still some teething problem.

    But in the long run Amur 1650 is a better submarine in price/effectiveness ,weapons and sensors.

    636M should be compared with U-212 , the advantage I see with U-212 is its AIP and modern Combat Control system , but beyond that both are same.



    price factor advantage is always in favour of russians as they are comparitevely cheap compare to western counterparts

    weapons : brahmos can also be fitted in type 216 as it is still in developmental stages & provisions can be made in that sub to fire Brahmos in vls systems

    Sensors : more advanced in case of germans plz check the thread well LIRA sonar is advanced no doubt about it

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  DrSomnath999 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:40 pm

    Viktor wrote:Well Amour1650 is out of competition cozz while roughly equivalent on aspect of silence, AIP, range etc it carries VLS packed with 10 missiles of Club-S/Brahmos etc witch gives them unprecedented firepower no other sub can match.

    Given silence of all subs and given overall India supremacy in subs over Pakistan it is not likely Amour/Type214/Scorpene would be used for sub vs sub and
    in that case packed with VLS missiles is of greater importance.

    Ability to launch a attack of 10 missiles on Pakistan navy convey, military ships and sea installations, bases on sea and inland is without exception what rockets Amour sub above all other.

    I bet Amour will set standards for all subs because of VLS/Club-S system and from now on most of the subs will be designed with VLS witch will give subs rapid attack capability.

    Because of that Amour could get huge export potential. Just imagine Syria/Iran armed with 6 of those lurking around being able to pop out 60 3M-54E supersonic missiles + torpedoes while carriers and destroyers and etc are around.

    No other sub can match that.
    well for VLS system only russians have the advantage right now but GERMAN are not far
    behind they for that reason only started development of type 216 with VLS capability

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  runaway on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:38 pm

    Russian subs have Shkvals, a huge weapon/torpedo advantage.
    Amur is not serial produced, and none operational, so buying them is taking a risk, and a long wait.

    214´s cannot launch Brahmos, but is in production.
    216´s are on the drawing table, and will be expensive, as convertion to VLS and Brahmos will be hard.

    Hard to say, as neither 216 or Amur are operational, but with the cost and all things such Shkval and new AIP considered, i would chose 636M, which can be comissioned rather quickly. Its amongst the very best subs, and proven. They dont have VLS, but for ship attack, i would prefer Shkvals, as there is no defence against them.


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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:10 pm

    DrSomnath999 wrote:
    well for VLS system only russians have the advantage right now but GERMAN are not far
    behind they for that reason only started development of type 216 with VLS capability

    Germans have the idea like they intended to produce Kh-31 like missile or Skhval like missile and nothing happen.

    Besides what I failed to mentioned. You can not really compare non existent Type 212 cruise missile or Scorpene Exotec with mighty Brahmos or Club-S system - nothing can.

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:31 am

    Brahmos is developed from Yakhont, which is the export model of Oniks.

    So it is pretty safe to assume that Amur will come Yakhont ready, and for India and those India approves of Brahmos ready. The point is that it is not just cutting your sub in half and slotting in some missile tubes... you have to have the electronics and systems to support and operate the missiles too.

    Plus with AIP the German subs have large hydrogen fuel tanks that extend over quite a large area of the upper hull.

    I really don't think the German subs will be that easy to modify.

    Recent news regarding the Lada class seems to suggest the Russian Navy has changed its mind about its new AIP and is now keen to fit it to its Lada M class subs, which will have a huge impact of AIP development in Russia.

    Previously the new system they had developed had not had full scale testing and proper investment. Now I suspect it will be operational pretty soon, and along with new batteries, its underwater performance will be similar to SSNs... ie limited to food stores.

    I am not familiar with what sort of combat system the Russians export with their subs, but the Russian Navy Ladas will likely have Sigma-M which is comparable to AEGIS and is a communications and data sharing and battle management system that uses the combined data from each platforms sensors to create a complete under surface, surface, and air picture of the area around them integrated with space and air assets and sea floor systems... Does Germany really have something better... and is it for export?

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:21 am

    I should also mention that the Brahmos launch tubes will likely be UKSK or a related underwater launch equivalent.

    This means that it is also compatible with the Klub/Kalibr system with land attack cruise missiles and subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles plus Brahmos and of course the sub launched equivalent of SS-N-15 and SS-N-16 rocket propelled torpedo systems.

    The sub version for export has a ballistic range of 50km at mach 1.5 and a torpedo payload that hits the water by parachute and descends in an unpowered spiral till it detects something and attacks it...



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    Indian Military Photos:

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:04 am









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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:53 am

    Rare, nice and clear pics, ty!

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    Re: Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:27 pm

    Great pic with excellent quality in comparison with other SLBM launch.

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