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    Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

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    Viktor
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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Viktor on Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:11 pm

    chromatin1 wrote:I am disappointed that Modi and Putin could not resolve the FGFA issue.  

    I was hopping for the same but you can not rush for the process that are taking place. Importaint thing is that they manage to reach the deal in due time and continue with the

    the cooperation in which I have no doubt.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:57 am

    Viktor wrote:I was hopping for the same but you can not rush for the process that are taking place. Importaint thing is that they manage to reach the deal in due time and continue with the

    the cooperation in which I have no doubt.

    Actually the main purpose of this visit was purely economics and both the sides have done pretty well.

    They managed to sign $100 billion worth of deals in just 22 hours.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/export/1838?utm_content=buffer5df87&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    PAK-FA , MTA will be discussed next year once Rogozin comes to India and Modi visits Russia.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:46 am

    Russia, India Complete Draft Project for Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft

    nemrod
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    US propaganda and their false news ?

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:19 pm

    Iam concerned by this article of Janes-see below-, it claims that India would be unhappy by its cooperation with Russia. Is it right ? false ?
    Jane is one of the mutiple vectors of US propaganda, they haven't been  objectives at all for a long time ago. Jane's is far to be the reference that it was during the 70's and 80's. The goal followed by US is to trigger break in India-Russia's relations, chieftly regarding Brics, that are seeing by US as rivals.
    It would be true, if inside indian officials, it exists spys-traitors- that work for US agenda, and hence, managing to expand false rumours. It is true also, that with this huge, and very costly of the SU-50's project, it would exist evidently divergences in the conception, design, and approach. These differences are naturals.
    But Iam sure, India will be commited in this project, and will stay. Indian's hardwares, since the 50's is an equilibre between USSR-now Russia-, and Western countries. And India has none interrests to break with Russia's longtime excellent relationships, and none interresters too, to come closer to western countries in order to get more informations regarding stealth technoloigies. The best example is  undoubtly the JSF. US want to know your secrets, but they forbidde you to see their secrets.
    It is noteworthy to say that Russia is highly interressting by cooperations with India, in all sectors. For Russia, India is a client, a partner, and share many interrests with Russia. Russia has none interrests to break with India too.

    Finally, Janes with its long reputation of serious work, as it was one of the references during the 70's and 80's regarding Defense news, became no more another people-tabloids, as the lie domine its work, as it collaborate with DOD. The same fate as Financial Time that is no more another people-tabloid.
    Iam more and more reluctant to see, to read news from western medias, you understand why.







    http://www.janes.com/article/42765/indian-air-force-unhappy-at-progress-of-pak-fa-fifth-gen-fighter

    Indian Air Force unhappy at progress of PAK-FA fifth-gen fighter
    The Indian Air Force (IAF) has expressed concerns to Russia over technical problems and delays plaguing the USD10.5 billion Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme, which is based on the Russian Air Force's Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA platform.

    Official sources told IHS Jane's that the IAF's primary objections to fighter's preliminary design features included the inadequacy of its AL-41F1 engines, its stealth features and its weapons carriage system.

    Differences also emerged over the operational capability of the Byelka active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Additional IAF concerns include the overall development cost of the aircraft, its maintainability and safety features, the sources said.

    As a result, in recent months the IAF has significantly reduced the number of FGFA aircraft it plans to acquire from around 220 to 130-145. It has also dropped its requirement for 45-50 twin-seat FGFA trainers as Russia had demanded an additional USD1 billion and extended deadlines for their development.

    The IAF is also annoyed over Russian reluctance to share design information on the T-50 PAK-FA -officially designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF) by India - despite New Delhi being an equal financial partner in its development costs.

    India has so far paid USD295 million towards the preliminary design and considers the programme vital to helping the state-run Aeronautical Development Agency kick-start its indigenous fifth-generation single-seat, twin-engine Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.

    Officials claim Russia is unwilling even to share details of a fire that erupted aboard a prototype PAK-FA as it landed at the Zhukovsky test centre near Moscow in June. An IAF technical evaluation team at the site was reportedly not permitted access to the fire-affected platform.

    Russian officials, however, have reportedly told the IAF that many of its concerns will be resolved soon. They maintain that the prototype PAK-FA's NPO Saturn AL-41FI engine is a temporary solution, meant only for the duration of flight-testing, and that a replacement power pack is under development. Similarly, the AESA radar's proficiency is being improved alongside other systems.

    Another cause for friction between the two sides is the reduced work share of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's lead development agency in the FGFA joint venture. The amount has gone from around 25% that was negotiated in 2013 to around 13% in recent months.

    Under the new arrangement, HAL will only provide the FGFA only with tyres, basic navigation equipment, laser designation pods, heads-up-displays and additional coolant for the radar, official sources said.

    "India should not let itself be taken advantage of by the Russians as it is paying half the FGFA's developmental costs," military analyst Air Marshal V K Bhatia (rtd) said.

    But he also cautioned HAL against "over-reach" in the FGFA's development as its intrinsic technological capabilities were "severely limited".

    The IAF and HAL declined to comment officially.
    ANALYSIS

    Senior IAF officers believe that although series production of PAK-FA by Russia's United Aircraft Corporation could begin by 2016-17, production by HAL would only start in 2020-21.

    This is primarily due to delays in developing various systems the IAF is insisting on, such as the replacement engine and better AESA radar.

    After returning from Moscow in August 2012, then Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne declared that the first FGFA prototype would undergo extensive user trials in 2014 at the IAF's Ojhar air base at Nashik, western India, with two subsequent prototypes, incorporating recommended changes, following in 2017 and 2019.

    Ojhar air base was also to have been upgraded to create FGFA flight-testing facilities to allow joint research and development on the platform with Russian scientists and technicians. After this, Browne said, the FGFA's design would be confirmed and series production would start at HAL's Ojhar plant.

    However, IAF sources told IHS Jane's that this deadline would be missed by several years.


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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:10 pm

    Tbh, Jane's is pretty bad source, also filled with lot of bullshit pro-USA anti-russian writers, like this bullshit.

    http://www.janes.com/article/35552/russia-sends-further-reinforcements-to-ukrainian-border

    A second wave of Russian military reinforcements has been heading towards Ukraine's eastern border, prior to the formal annexation of the region by Russia on 18 March.

    Train loads of Russian tanks, heavy artillery, rocket launchers and armoured troop carriers have been revealed in news media reports and social media posts heading westwards from central Russia and Siberia, while airborne exercises have been conducted in the region.

    Two trains were filmed in Saratov on 14 March carrying more than 20 T-90 main battle tanks (MBTs) and several 2S3 152mm self-propelled artillery systems (SPAs). Images also emerged of a station in Omsk, Siberia, showing trains loaded with heavy artillery and rocket launchers.

    Jane's over years has reduced itself to propaganda tool in quite alot of fields, i don't take this source to serious.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:21 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Tbh, Jane's is pretty bad source, also filled with lot of bullshit pro-USA anti-russian writers, like this bullshit.
    Jane's over years has reduced itself to propaganda tool in quite alot of fields, i don't take this source to serious.
    Thx, in fact you confirm too what I felt.
    I have the same impression about all the western press, when I've seen what they say about Syria, Iraq, China, Ukraine, they say all the same thing.
    In fact in western countries, you several thousands of newspapers, channels TV, in order to say the same thing. On contrary, in USSR, you have one channel that say one thing.

    GarryB
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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:25 am

    Janes is rubbish.... except the occasional excellent pieces on Russian and Soviet SAMs written by SOC.... which are inciteful and fascinating and well written... with very few spelling mistakes... Very Happy


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    Rafale deadlock gives thrust to Russian 5th-gen jet project

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:59 am


    Faced with continuing deadlock in the mega deal to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters, India is now pressing the throttle to seal the even bigger project with Russia for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft.
    NEW DELHI: Faced with continuing deadlock in the mega deal to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters, India is now pressing the throttle to seal the even bigger project with Russia for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

    India has told Russia it wants deliveries of the FGFA to begin in 36 months after the main contract is inked, instead of the 94 months envisaged earlier, top defence sources said.

    With this "accelerated delivery timeframe" becoming the main objective, India is ready to forego the earlier plan for a 50:50 design and work-share agreement with Russia on its under-development FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50.

    India is also no longer insisting that all the single-seat stealth fighters required by IAF be built in India by defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics at its Ozar facility. "We have agreed to a lesser work-share for a realistic contract, with the initial lot of the FGFA being imported and the rest being made here under technology transfer," said a source.

    "Like for the Russian Sukhoi-30MKI fighters (majority of the 272 Sukhois contracted for $12 billion are being made by HAL), the curve in technology absorption will also be steep in the FGFA project," he added.

    Faced with a sharp decline in the number of fighter squadrons in IAF, India wants to fast-track the FGFA project under which its "perspective multi-role fighter" will be based on PAK-FA but tweaked to its requirements.

    The final FGFA design contract has been hanging fire since India and Russia completed their initial work under the $295 million preliminary design contract signed in December 2010. India will overall spend around $25 billion on the FGFA project if it goes ahead with its plan to induct 127 such fighters, as earlier reported by TOI.

    All this has gained urgency since India feels French aviation major Dassault is being needlessly intransigent over the pricing mechanism in the final negotiations for the over $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project. Under it, the first 18 Rafale fighters were to be delivered off-the-shelf, with the remaining 108 being produced in India.

    "But Dassault's costing for the 108 Rafales to be built by HAL has undergone a major hike. It amounts to changing the price line that led to Rafale's selection over Eurofighter Typhoon as the L-1 (lowest bidder) in the MMRCA competition," said the source.

    "The MoD simply cannot sign the contract if the L-1 price is altered. Dassault should relent and stick to its commercial bid submitted in response to the original RFP (request for proposal)," he added.

    Both sides are furiously working to break the deadlock since India wants to take a final call on the MMRCA project before Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits France in early-April, as earlier reported by TOI.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:46 pm

    I transfer it to FGFA thread in India section

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:26 pm

    India to invest $25 billion in fifth-generation fighter joint project with Russia — media

    MOSCOW, 9 March. /TASS/. India is ready to seal a big project with Russia for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), The Times of India wrote referring to the country’s defense ministry.

    "Faced with continuing deadlock in the mega deal to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters, India is now pressing the throttle to seal the even bigger project with Russia for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA)," the newspaper wrote.

    "India will overall spend around $25 billion on the FGFA project if it goes ahead with its plan to induct 127 such fighters, as earlier reported by TOI.

    Meanwhile, India is ready to forego the earlier plan for a 50:50 design and work-share agreement with Russia on its under-development FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50."

    The PAK FA - "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation" - is a fifth-generation fighter program of the Russian Air Force. The T-50 is the aircraft designed by Sukhoi for the PAK FA program. The aircraft is a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter, and will be the first operational aircraft in Russian service to use stealth technology. It is a multirole combat aircraft designed for the air superiority and ground attack functions. It combines supercruise, stealth, manoeuvrability, and advanced avionics to overcome previous generation fighter aircraft along with many ground and maritime defences.

    The PAK FA is intended to be the successor to the MiG-29 and Su-27 in the Russian Air Force and serve as the basis for the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being co-developed by Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force. The T-50 prototype first flew on 29 January 2010 and production aircraft is slated for delivery to the Russian Air Force starting in 2016. The prototypes and initial production batch will be delivered with a highly upgraded variant of the AL-31F used by the Su-27 family as interim engines while a new clean-sheet design powerplant is currently under development. The aircraft is expected to have a service life of up to 35 years.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:41 pm

    So that means India is sending a strong signal to Rafale ?

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Pinto on Sat May 16, 2015 2:55 pm

    India will be wisely investing its energy and resources on this aircraft by signing this deal with Russia soon. Rafale deal has already been curtailed, do not know how many fighters in reality will be inducted and on what terms

    Though Rafale is good aircraft but french have stood there ground and indian govt has blinked first by buying off the shelf ready to use fighters. French must be laughing to the bank now with no transfer of technology sword on them. Only after details of the deals are out it will be known that why french were rewarded instead of being penalised for going back on MRCA deal terms and conditions. Other competitors too will feel cheated now if the deal has to go through like this on govt to govt basis. if talks were stuck then it was on the admanet behaviour on french

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Book. on Sat May 16, 2015 6:05 pm

    Pinto wrote:India will be wisely investing its energy and resources on this aircraft by signing this deal with Russia soon. Rafale deal has already been curtailed, do not know how many fighters in reality will be inducted and on what terms

    Though Rafale is good aircraft but french have stood there ground and indian govt has blinked first by buying off the shelf ready to use fighters. French must be laughing to the bank now with no transfer of technology sword on them. Only after details of the deals are out it will be known that why french were rewarded instead of being penalised for going back on MRCA deal terms and conditions. Other competitors too will feel cheated now if the deal has to go through like this on govt to govt basis. if talks were stuck then it was on the admanet behaviour on french

    Rafale ok. but poor engine

    India must fix. place the sea wasp

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:09 pm

    Russia’s T-50 Fifth Generation Jet Fighter on Par With US F-35 – US Media

    Russia and India are close to inking a much-delayed agreement to jointly develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft on par with America’s F-35 Lightning II, a Chicago-based internet portal reported on Saturday.

    With Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi set to visit Russia on July 7, speculation is swirling about the potential for a final agreement between the two countries regarding a jointly developed and produced Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft, based on Russia’s T-50 PAK FA, RealClearPolitics wrote.

    Code-named Project 79L by the Indian Defense Ministry, the FGFA program came to life with an initial announcement on October 20, 2007, shortly after New Delhi and Moscow signed an agreement exempting the program from normal procurement rules, RCP added.

    The project soon began to take form when India and Russia signed a collaborative preliminary design contract in December 2010, whereby each side put up $295 million toward finalizing the aircraft's basic configuration.

    The preliminary design phase on Russia's nascent fifth-generation fighter, the PAK FA (Sukhoi T-50), was wrapped up in mid-2013, and the two countries are now discussing the structural elements of the future plane.

    Defense News earlier reported that the companies had smoothed their differences over an increase in India's work share in the FGFA from the current level of less than 20 percent to 40 percent.

    Russia also agreed to the Indian demand for a double-seat version of the new plane instead of the original, single-seat, option.

    India is reportedly willing to include a firm order for 154 FGFAs in the draft agreement – a sop to Russian concerns regarding T-50 development and unit-production costs, as well as concrete assurance of an export order.

    A finalized deal will enable Russia to more easily bear the costs of the expensive PAK FA development.

    In addition, this will also provide its air force with a state-of-the-art stealth combat aircraft and its industry with the necessary momentum to maintain a level of technological equality with the US as it rolls out its second stealth fighter, the F-35, RCP wrote in conclusion.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150622/1023699294.html#ixzz3dpMA8Jhu


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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  zepia on Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:06 am

    "T-50 on Par With US F-35"

    That insult lol!

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Pinto on Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:38 pm

    early signing of deal for this aircraft is very crucial for India

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:12 am

    Pinto wrote:early signing of deal for this aircraft is very crucial for India
    Where's the link??

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  aksha on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:23 pm

    FGFA Fighter deal likely during Modi’s November visit to Russia


    http://idrw.org/fgfa-fighter-deal-likely-during-modis-november-visit-to-russia/

    The final agreement for the joint development and production of a fifth generation fighter aircraft could be signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Russia in November, diplomatic sources told The Hindu on Thursday.Preparations are under way in both countries for the summit-level meeting to impart a qualitative boost to defence cooperation.

    Agreeing that differences exist, sources said without getting into the details that “a workaround has been found and discussions are in an advanced stage” and an agreement could be reached “by autumn”. The final deal is likely to be signed in November.

    The agreement on the fighter aircraft has been stuck because of differences in the work share between Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL). As the project is to have equal investment from each side, India has been insisting on parity in the work share. So far, both sides have invested $295 million for the preliminary design. India had some reservations on the engine and stealth characteristics.

    India has requested Russia to let its pilots fly the T-50 prototypes currently under testing. A decision by Russia on this is expected shortly. India plans to induct 144 fighters and the entire project is expected to cost over $30 billion. The first batch of aircraft is expected to be handed over to the Russian Air Force in early 2017

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Pinto on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:15 pm

    The FGFA deal is very crucial for the India and it must be signed this year

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:12 am

    India, Russia to Resume Co-Development of 5th Generation Fighter Jet


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    IAF cut orders for 5th Gen FGFA by Half, down to only 65 aircrafts

    Post  Pinto on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:48 am



    Looking to cut costs and prune military imports, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has halved its demand for Russian-built fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).It now wants just three squadrons of the fighter jets which are to be inducted into the Russian Air Force in 2016.

    Sources say the IAF has scaled down its needs and now indicated that just three squadrons (around 18 planes in each), besides a few more for training of the pilots, will be enough for now. This works out to be 65 planes, almost half from the earlier projection of 127 FGFAs to be jointly designed and produced by India and Russia.The T-50 has been built for the Russians under the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme for the fifth generation fighter aircraft.

    A plane will cost $100 million (Rs 650 crore). Three squadrons are the projection of an off-the-shelf deal India is pressing its military ally for immediate delivery of the planes.New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet can be supplied to the IAF, while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The Tribune had first reported about India’s offer on February 24 this year.

    Simultaneously, the IAF is also working on a $11 billion R&D contract for long-term development of the jet. It is pending ratification since 2013. In a written reply to the Rajya Sabha on August 4, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the preliminary design stage of the fifth generation fighter aircraft programme completed in June 2013.

    “The expenditure incurred so far is Rs 1,483.15 crore,” Parrikar said. The next stage of development of the fifth generation fighter aircraft will commence after signing of the R&D contract.The problem is in case India opts for the R&D contract route, the deliveries are envisaged to commence 94 months – eight years. The next best option is to go for an immediate off-the-shelf purchase and in case the research-and-development contract works out, more jets can be produced here.

    With a dwindling fleet of fighter jets, this wait is not an option for the IAF, said sources. By the end of this year, the IAF would be at its lowest combat strength in more than a decade. It will be down to 32 squadrons by the end of this year and in the middle of a predicted shortage.

    In a nutshell, the IAF with 576 fighter jets will be well short of the 750-strong fighter jet fleet mandated by a government sanction to wage a simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China.The pruning down of numbers has been done as the IAF is backing its own options of getting French-origin Rafale jets and the remaining batch of 72 Sukhoi-30 MKI jets from Russia, sources say.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April this year announced the intent to get 36 Rafale jets. A cost negotiation committee is in talks with the French company and the numbers could go beyond the announced 36 as the IAF has projected a demand for 80 Rafale-type planes.


    http://idrw.org/iaf-cut-orders-for-5th-gen-fgfa-by-half-down-to-only-65-aircrafts/

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  zepia on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:50 am

    Pinto wrote:A plane will cost $100 million (Rs 650 crore). Three squadrons are the projection of an off-the-shelf deal India is pressing its military ally for immediate delivery of the planes. New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet can be supplied to the IAF, while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The Tribune had first reported about India’s offer on February 24 this year.

    I can understand why IAF need these birds so urgently.
    And can't blame them for pressuring Moscow since it is many years delay from original plan (LRIP 2013, full production 2015, Indian 2-seat variant 2017).

    But I don't think following F-35 path (purchased it while not complete testing) is a good idea.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:07 am

    Any comment about these ?

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-t-50-aircraft-struggling-to-take-flight-but-older-su-35-surging/527774.html

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/iaf-halves-its-demand-for-russian-fighter-jets/118288.html

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:24 pm

    Almost certainly crap. Rumors mean nothing in defense industry, only cold facts.

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    Re: Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

    Post  Book. on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:46 pm

    India big country. general politiks side the west
    I think pay to talk bad.

    India reject 120+ mrca. only FGFA future


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