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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

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    Cyrus the great
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:28 am

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    He has proven unable to deal with the insurgency.

    You mean the way all western leaders have also been failures in dealing with the war on terror and the war on drugs and should all also step down?
    Only MAJOR difference is It is on his own home turf. Western leaders speak , but do nothing. Assad is weak person and he is political corpse. He is smart, but people need brutual leaders in time of war.
    If I was him I would expell sunnis, put them on the boats and send to Europe. Sunnis are the problem. No matter what groups they are with, they cause problems. They are syrian traitors, helping and facilitating terrorists from abroad. Expulsion of sunnis had to happen 4 years ago, before those rats exterminated oldest chrystians and other sectarian groups and destroyed Syria. All damage in Syria was done by them and there is only conclusion, they are pest and need extermination.
    People from middle east need strong hand, who will stamp out all disidents and foreign agents, not a guy who was dentist in UK.
    Best thing is to have apointed PM and strong hawk gov with army representatives. No sunnis should be among them.

    If you attempted to expell all the Sunnis, Syria would cease to exist as a political unit. Sunnis are 80% of the population and form the overwhelming majority of the armed forces. If this was strictly sectarian, I doubt Assad would still be in Damascus. Bashar al-Assad still has the support of the majority of the population, and so calling for the 'extermination' -*genocide*- of these people is not only foolhardy, it's disturbing. The Syrians are fighting against a horde of incredibly well funded and armed terror groups, and so it's only natural that they would struggle.

    No Nation-State on earth needs a Commander-in-Chief to engage in gratuitous killing, ostensibly in order to ensure its National security. Assad is not perfect, but he would still be preferable to a mad man killing people people left, right and center on sectarian grounds. I have the utmost respect for the men in uniform that continue to put their lives on the line day in and day out, when some of their compatriots have chosen to leave the country in droves, resulting in a manpower shortage for the Syrian army.

    PS: Assad was not a 'dentist', he was an eye doctor - an ophthalmologist.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:58 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    He has proven unable to deal with the insurgency.

    You mean the way all western leaders have also been failures in dealing with the war on terror and the war on drugs and should all also step down?
    Only MAJOR difference is It is on his own home turf. Western leaders speak , but do nothing. Assad is weak person and he is political corpse. He is smart, but people need brutual leaders in time of war.
    If I was him I would expell sunnis, put them on the boats and send to Europe. Sunnis are the problem. No matter what groups they are with, they cause problems. They are syrian traitors, helping and facilitating terrorists from abroad. Expulsion of sunnis had to happen 4 years ago, before those rats exterminated oldest chrystians and other sectarian groups and destroyed Syria. All damage in Syria was done by them and there is only conclusion, they are pest and need extermination.
    People from middle east need strong hand, who will stamp out all disidents and foreign agents, not a guy who was dentist in UK.
    Best thing is to have apointed PM and strong hawk gov with army representatives. No sunnis should be among them.

    what he said..



    Syria would cease to exist as a political unit. Sunnis are 80% of the population


    The problem is much more than Sunnis.. the problem is ISlam.

    Remember that Russia also had their own "Freedom fighters" in their homeland.
    in Chechenia . a war that lasted a decade. same players supporting terrorist today in Syria ,are the same players who supported terrorist in Russia.

    difference is that Russia is a super power and have nuclear weapons and a country like Turkey
    or Islael who try to do what they do to Syria ,will end Nuked. So the help to terrorist cannot be
    done so openly and directly as they do..that have training centers of so called "rebels" . Russia will bomb them..

    The question should be what makes Islam like a weapon ,that western powers can easily exploit to their advantage and create endless conflicts anywhere?

    Such problems do not exist with any other religion. That is that factions will fight each other
    for "converting" the other to their ideology. You for example do not see Catholics in a war agains Evangelical Christians or Orthodox for imposing their ideology. And you will never
    see any one that was raised under a christian family ,to welcome becoming a suicide bomber
    because of a promise of 72 virgins in heaven or because thats "Allah Will" .   The elephant in the chinese Porcelaine shop is Islam.. this is the core of the problem with middle east.  This is because Islam does not prepared muslins to deal with their own dark side and emotions. Does not teach them tolerance , does not have a prophet that they can use as a model to follow..
    because mohammed behead many and spend lot of his time in wars.  This is the ugly truth that no media in the world will like to discuss ,not even Russian media. Islam is a radical ideology ,
    whether is moderate Sunni or Moderate Shia or ISIS like based on wahabism.  Is radical because teach spiritual ignorance. And you can expect a religion to help any nation overcome
    its violence when their own prophet of that religion was a violent man. No

    All this is true regardless if you believe if your religious or not..atheist or not. Christian or not..
    whether which is the "right religion" or not.. if God exist or not is irrelevant.  But the fact is
    that Islam is a religion that does not works to create tolerance between people and the major problem is the prophet himself muhammed that was not a peaceful man.  So all this non pure Islam factions ,like Shias ,Alawis , what are trying to do is artificial fixes to "correct" the religion and made it more ideal for promoting peaceful living. But like everything if the base
    of any house is badly made ,damaged or weak.. the house will collapse sooner or later ,no matter how much you paint it or modernize it.

    People claim islam is a "religion of peace".. but go a burn the quran or insult muhammed or even paint him and you will see how muslins wants to kill you.

    Even something as simple as Cartoons of muhammed and you have
    World wide protest of muslins in Rage ,ready to fight.

    And this is in Russia chechenia which are "moderate muslins".


    Notice how "peaceful muslins" transform in no so peaceful ones..for any difference of
    opinion about their religion and wants to fight. Kadirov told he was ready to die defending their Islam.  And this are the "moderate muslins".

    Kadirov is always ready to die.. he have said that many times that. either ready to die for Islam,
    or " ready to die" for mother russia. They are always ready to die..they are always ready to fight too..and dissapointed that Putin does not allow Kadirov army to help Assad. They are always ready to die and ready to fight. but never they are ready to live no matter what. And this is the major Huge difference between Islam and any other religion.. that Islam does not teach people to value their lives above anything. In Islam their religion is their God..and is even more important than their own lives or saving lives. and this is what makes Islam very dangerous..because makes people slaves of their religion. And their whole lives is centered in the religion.  ISlam repress also womens a lot. their role in society is very limited. so Islam
    is a religion of control of society and not on freedom of it.. and this form of slavery of people not being free to express what they really want is what create the love for violence in muslins.
    because violence is also a form of expression. When people not allowed to express themselves
    freely not even in their own privacy.. because Islam says so ,this is a form of repression and it will turn people violent and Violence is a manifestation of people frustration.  

    There are differences between Muslins in chechenia and ISIS.. Between IRAN and Saudi Arabia ,but  ignorance is ignorance. and sooner or later western powers will find a way to brainwash muslins into taking a gun and "Defend Islam" and take advantage of that..and turn even the most peaceful muslins into killing machines thanks to the serious contradictions that exist with Islam and its own prophet.

    here protest world wide for some stupid cartoons against muhammed.



    Islam is a religion that do not teach tolerance for others opinions. Is dangerous because
    it does not encourage questioning anything and instead only encourage to follow what you are being told to do. Islam promote slavery of society..since control every little thing you should do
    in your lives..what to eat, what you are allowed to drink. clothing , beard, how to pray ,relations with others how they will be allowed..and more repressive for womens and it can destroy freedom of expression in society and this is why real Democracy and freedom and Islam are not compatible. and this is why i said before.. that Anglozionist powers are in an alliance with Islam and flooding Europe with Muslins. Because they can easily turn muslins into freedom fighters whenever they want it. and attack that nation that they live.. All they need to do is Hire Radical Clerics to brainwash them and offer them money and weapons , "to spread Islam in the world" and this will get many jump for the offer. This is to fight for "God" that wants the world to be ruled by Islam.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

    ultron
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:03 pm

    Let's be honest. SAA is bad. Really bad. Syria is a western construction. A product of imperialism and colonialism. Sunnis, Alawites, Christians, Druze, Kurds meshed together for the sake of colonial administration. SAA does not have much motivation. What are they fighting for? For language? For religion? You tell me what?

    Kurds have a lot of motivation and fight for their language, their ethnicity. Nusra has a lot of motivation and fight for their religion.


    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:08 pm

    Shocked Wow, Vann... you brought out the heavy guns  -respect to you for that

    Alawis aren't Muslims. They claim to be Muslims for purpose of self defence but they hold none of the beliefs mainstream Sunnis hold. Alawis are really Gnostic Christians that have concealed their true beliefs by pretending to b Muslims.

    AS a side note - there is a book claiming that most of Islamic striptures is in fact a rip-off of earlier Syriac texts and that for example Quran talks not about 72 virgins but 72 white raisins... This hypothesis is almsost universally rejected by orientalists but who knows? Maybe if testosterone-filled Muslim males were led to believe that instead of getting 72 virgins in paradise they would get 72 raisins, there would be fewer morons volunteering for suicide bombings?


    Last edited by Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:10 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    See the above videos.. The terrorist communicating by Radio..
    whats the purpose of Electronic Warfare if Russia don't use it?  Russia needs
    to shutdown terrorist communication completely so they cannot coordinate any major attack..
    neither receive logistics from NATO and updated GPS satellite information of Syrian army positions for the terrorist artillery, but So far i will like to believe all those claims of Russia "electronic jamming bubble" and "Area of denial of 600km in Syria ,But evidence suggest something totally different ,that is not true at all.

    The most likely possibility is that Russia jamming only covers 20km to 30km from the place
    they are placed..and exclusively for protection of the military base and nothing else. And Combat planes for sure also have come counter electronics but nothing like those reports of "Area of denial".. in Syria we keep hearing..  Hopefully im wrong and there is more to know for a final
    conclusion about whether or not Russia have an Area of denial or not.


    It's like you made '0' attempt to actually access Kras-4's abilities.

    Your claiming that "The most likely possibility is that Russia jamming only covers 20km to 30km from the place they are placed..and exclusively for protection of the military base and nothing else."

    Which is total BS, considering that Kras-4 is advertised as being capable of jamming satellites in LEO orbit, which are hundreds of km's in height. Also how did you manage to ignore claims by General Breedlove claiming that Russian ECM assets in Syria have created an A2/AD bubble that is several hundred kilometers in diameter? NATO admitted that they couldn't track the Kalibr 3M-14 SLCM's, and that they're having trouble collecting information in Syria due to the ECM assets deployed.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:16 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    The problem is much more than Sunnis.. the problem is ISlam.

    Remember that Russia also had their own "Freedom fighters" in their homeland.
    in Chechenia . a war that lasted a decade. same players supporting terrorist today in Syria ,are the same players who supported terrorist in Russia.

    The question should be what makes Islam like a weapon ,that western powers can easily exploit to their advantage and create endless conflicts anywhere?

    Such problems do not exist with any other religion. That is that factions will fight each other
    for "converting" the other to their ideology. You for example do not see Catholics in a war agains Evangelical Christians or Orthodox for imposing their ideology. And you will never
    see any one that was raised under a christian family ,to welcome becoming a suicide bomber
    because of a promise of 72 virgins in heaven or because thats "Allah Will" .   The elephant in the chinese Porcelaine shop is Islam.. this is the core of the problem with middle east.  This is because Islam does not prepared muslins to deal with their own dark side and emotions. Does not teach them tolerance , does not have a prophet that they can use as a model to follow..
    because mohammed behead many and spend lot of his time in wars.  This is the ugly truth that no media in the world will like to discuss ,not even Russian media. Islam is a radical ideology ,
    whether is moderate Sunni or Moderate Shia or ISIS like based on wahabism.  Is radical because teach spiritual ignorance. And you can expect a religion to help any nation overcome
    its violence when their own prophet of that religion was a violent man. No

    All this is true regardless if you believe if your religious or not..atheist or not. Christian or not..
    whether which is the "right religion" or not.. if God exist or not is irrelevant.  But the fact is
    that Islam is a religion that does not works to create tolerance between people and the major problem is the prophet himself muhammed that was not a peaceful man.  So all this non pure Islam factions ,like Shias ,Alawis , what are trying to do is artificial fixes to "correct" the religion and made it more ideal for promoting peaceful living. But like everything if the base
    of any house is badly made ,damaged or weak.. the house will collapse sooner or later ,no matter how much you paint it or modernize it.

    People claim islam is a "religion of peace".. but go a burn the quran or insult muhammed or even paint him and you will see how muslins wants to kill you.

    Even something as simple as Cartoons of muhammed and you have
    World wide protest of muslins in Rage ,ready to fight.

    And this is in Russia chechenia which are "moderate muslins".


    Notice how "peaceful muslins" transform in no so peaceful ones..for any difference of
    opinion about their religion and wants to fight. Kadirov told he was ready to die defending their Islam.  And this are the "moderate muslins".

    Kadirov is always ready to die.. he have said that many times.. either ready to die for Islam,
    or ready to die for mother russia. They are always ready to die.. but never ready to live no matter what. And this is the major Huge difference between Islam and any other religion..
    that Islam does not teach people to value their lives above anything. In Islam their religion is
    their God..and is even more important than their own lives or saving lives. and this is what makes Islam very dangerous..because makes people slaves of their religion. And their whole lives is centered in becoming a servant to Islam.  

    There can be big difference between Muslins in chechenia and ISIS.. Between IRAN and Saudi Arabia ,but  ignorance is ignorance. and sooner or later western powers will find a way to brainwash muslins into taking a gun and "Defend Islam" and take advantage of that..and turn even the most peaceful muslins into killing machines thanks to the serious contradictions that exist with Islam and its own prophet.

    here protest world wide for some stupid cartoons against muhammed.



    Islam is a religion that do not teach tolerance for others opinions. Is dangerous because
    it can destroy freedom of expression in society and this is why Democracy and Islam are not
    compatible. Democracy depends on tolerance of others opinions ,even when they insult you..
    and Islam does not tolerate any negative comments about Islam.


    Let's take a look what Islam means. Islam means submission. Submission to Allah. There is no other religion that talks about submission. This is why Islam is different from all other religions.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:24 pm

    ultron wrote:
    Let's take a look what Islam means. Islam means submission. Submission to Allah. There is no other religion that talks about submission. This is why Islam is different from all other religions.

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Yes, because Christianity is so non submissive?

    The only non submissive but disgusting supremacy religion there is is Judaism.

    But Islamophobia controlled by west and jews is very strong in you idiots.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:25 pm

    Name is actually the most meaningless part of it. IT's what the founder of Islam wanted to achieve.

    If you read about the life of Jesus, you'll see that he gained nothing by creating his religion - he gained 12 followers and a death by one of the most cruel methods imaginable and one he willingly choose for himself. Muhammad created Islam, began his career as a highway robber after migrating to Medina and after 10 years he became the absolute ruler of Arabia, had 9 luxurious houses, a de facto provate army and a harem with several dozen sex slaves.

    So as opposed to Jesus, Muhammad benefitted immensely from his claim to prophethood -how can we be sure that he wanted to teach mankind anything? Canw e be sure that he did not create Islam just to get more money and more sex?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:27 pm

    Mmmmm, what's this got to do with Russian support for Syria?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:28 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    ultron wrote:
    Let's take a look what Islam means. Islam means submission. Submission to Allah. There is no other religion that talks about submission. This is why Islam is different from all other religions.

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Yes, because Christianity is so non submissive?

    The only non submissive but disgusting supremacy religion there is is Judaism.

    But Islamophobia controlled by west and jews is very strong in you idiots.
    From moral point of view, there is nothing to accuse Jesus of. There is violence in the Old Testament but for Christians the Old Testament is a book of history. Christians read about the massacres committed by Moses and Joshue thw way we read about 30 years war -history, nothing more and nothing less.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:45 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Shocked Wow, Vann... you brought out the heavy guns  -respect to you for that

    Alawis aren't Muslims. They claim to be Muslims for purpose of self defence but they hold none of the beliefs mainstream Sunnis hold. Alawis are really Gnostic Christians that have concealed their true beliefs by pretending to b Muslims.

    AS a side note - there is a book claiming that most of Islamic striptures is in fact a rip-off of earlier Syriac texts and that for example Quran talks not about 72 virgins but 72 white raisins... This hypothesis is almsost universally rejected by orientalists but who knows? Maybe if testosterone-filled Muslim males were led to believe that instead of getting 72 virgins in paradise they would get 72 raisins, there would be fewer morons volunteering for suicide bombings?

    And the Irony in all this is that Assad is attacked not because of being a "dictator" but because
    of his reforms and lack of respect for Islam.. turning Syria into another European like nation
    that womens allowed to be in bikinis and take leader positions etc.

    Europe ,specially Germany needs to be ready to experience their own Chechenia ,because
    US and Israel will use those refugees Germany taking and the muslins that already exist there for years ..as "Freedom fighters". US imperialism cannot allow Europe to become very close
    to Russia and have too close business relations allowing Russia to become more Independent
    and more Powerful with a more modern army and more stronger industry. This is what Americans goes create problems in middle east and eastern Europe to damage Russia economic interest and force them into a long war.

    The best way for Europe and Germany to fight the destruction of Europe ,which americans will
    not mind doing if that is what it takes to keep Russia and Europe separated.. is to no longer lose any more time , end sanctions and as fast as possible create an economic Alliance with Russia..and of course leave NATO. That will be the only thing that will end the world wars and middle east conflicts. only when Europe gain its independence back. It will also avoid a world war between US and Russia. When no longer Americans see will have the support of Europe.

    An alliance between Europe and Russia for example can declare sanctions /economic blockade against the middle east nations supporting terrorist in Syria and Iraq. That will force Turkey and saudi Arabia to back down..but also Israel. and end their support to terrorist if they want to avoid serious consequences to their economies. Banning the purchase of Saudi Oil for example will be a huge bomb to ISIS Support. Then it will force saudi arabia to bribe their terrorist to end
    their fight and leave.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:07 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    ultron wrote:
    Let's take a look what Islam means. Islam means submission. Submission to Allah. There is no other religion that talks about submission. This is why Islam is different from all other religions.

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Yes, because Christianity is so non submissive?

    The only non submissive but disgusting supremacy religion there is is Judaism.

    But Islamophobia controlled by west and jews is very strong in you idiots.

    All organized religions are a form of control of society.. all of them .
    the Difference here we speaking is about dangerous religion and dangerous control.
    When you train any child with a religion that controls every little thing of his life and he
    is not even allowed to think or feel outside what is acceptable for that religion.. then you
    have repression ,an spiritual dictatorship. that blocks that person expression and this
    create frustration and this frustration creates violence..and this is Islam. Islam lacks
    of the basics to teach people how to be tolerant with others. Simply critizism against the religion is not allowed..

    This repression does not exist in Christianity normal religions like Catholic ,evangelical or Orthodox ,neither in Budism..that is a religion without God. Is not a sin to think or to ask question. Is not a sin to question their church. the 10 commandments by the way is Jews
    old testament.. is not Christ teaching. Jesus law is just one.. the Gold Rule and nothing else.
    Do unto others in the same way you will like to be done unto you. but also Love God and yourself no matter what.

    This is really a big difference because Christianity teach people to love life about anything else
    while in ISlam is even encourage for people to give away their lives in the name of Islam. No

    Christianity never encourage people to give away their lives for ideas or any religion. Christianity never teach to give your life in defense of christianity.. what christianity teach
    is simple moral values of tolerance for others no matter what. . hence the forgive
    seventy times seven speech of jesus.   Laughing

    .. while Islam instead teach to love the religion above anything else. So in Islam the religion is even more important than saving lives. This is why you can see a christian countries to welcome freedom of religion.. but you go to any Muslin nation and that is not the case. in the most "moderate" Muslin countries like IRAN many consider them to be.. Islam is the only religion..and only foreigners or minorities of ethnic groups allowed to practice a different religion ..but for example in IRAN is illegal for iranians to convert to christianity.  And Christianity is not allowed to be teach in Iranian language either. If i remember well people can go to jail for trying to convert Iranians into christianity.

    So there is religious dictatorship in all muslins nations. Syria is probably one of the rare cases.
    that is a true Secular nation.. And  This is why you have endless wars and violence in middle
    east. there is major resistance in Muslin Nations to change to more free and more open society.

    Welcome to "moderates Islam"   ,here is the tolerance of IRAN for Christianity.
    and i use IRAN as an example..because IRAN is "Russian ally" . and seen as true muslins.


    Can a Catholic practice in Iran?

    Neela Kale Answers:

    Officially, yes – Christianity is one of three religious minorities recognized by the Iranian government (the other two are Judaism and Zoroastrianism.) The Islamic Republic of Iran is officially a theocracy, in which political and religious authority are intertwined. Shia Islam is the state religion, but these three groups – which together make up barely 2% of the population – are protected and   enjoy certain rights ...


    However, day-to day life can be extremely difficult for Christians. Conversion from Islam to another religion is forbidden in Iran and punishable by death;



    http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/can-a-catholic-practice-in-iran

    Oh but why you were never told about this?  Wink  
    This are things you are not supposed to know.
    And you will never see discussion like this anywhere in the world in any media..not even
    Russian media or Putin will speak about this topic..because speaking about the
    INTOLERANCE of Islam against any other religion is opening the gates of hell ,
    and the THE MOTHER OF ALL Pandora Box.. lol1

    Imagine the world reaction ,specially Europe if people knew how intolerant are muslin nations to Christianity, including the "moderates ones" how repressive they are.. and they are so hypocrites ,that goes to Europe and there demand the freedom for their religion to be allowed there to be fully expressed ,yet in their middle east countries they will welcome total repression
    against any other religion that is not Islam.

    In Saudi Arabia you risk public execution just for being christian. and if your gay ,you will be
    shot on sight in the airport.. lol1  In IRAN being gays is a crime..even in your privacy and  this is more example of INTOLERANCE.  Islam is not a religion that teach tolerance for opposite opinions sensitive things. And this is the reason of the endless wars in most of middle east.
    That are religious sectarian wars..but organized and controlled by the west this violence.

    The only exception perhaps is Palestine.. they fight for territorial issues. Mostly.

    Still there is something that unites all muslins either moderates or terrorist or the very good muslins. and that is their desire to convert the entire world into Islam. and they go and create
    Big families in order to become majority ,and they use all kind of tactics and move to Europe
    and Russia because of that. They want a world ruled by Islam. Many of this migration of muslins
    to Europe is a religious migration..with the job to convert Europe into Islam. So good luck Europeans with that. You have to be thankful to Americans Imperialism for the pro muslin migration policies of the EU. This is all aimed to create a culture in Europe ,not very
    compatible with an Orthodox Russia. Smile



    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:57 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:31 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Mmmmm, what's this got to do with Russian support for Syria?

    Good question indeed, can we get back on topic already?

    You can continue this religion discussion in PM.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:36 pm

    iraqidabab wrote:Is it true Russia might establish itself in that Kuwaires or something airbase in Aleppo when the siege is broken

    No need for that from what I can tell.

    Coastline and Lebanese border are prime realestate in Syria and Russia already has those in the bag. Rest of it is mostly desert and even helicopters can make round trip around the country from Latakia with extra fuel tanks, to say nothing about jets.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  BKP on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:51 pm

    ^ The problem is not religion per se, it's human beings. In the end, it's pretty inconsequential if Jesus was/wasn't a better example of a "man of peace" than Muhammad. If it can be argued that Jesus' message was one of peace and empathy, then look at how his teaching could, none-the-less, be used by those who subsequently administered the faith that bore his name to spread misery, war, persecution and ignorance. We know the history.

    For reasons due to its path of historic, cultural and economic development, the West no longer wages war for religion. But, once you strip away the nonsense and propaganda, it's obvious that the reason why it does so now is money and the future potential to control resources from which more money can be made. What is worse or better in this? In the end, there are consequences for the human condition.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:14 pm

    BKP wrote:^ The problem is not religion per se, it's human beings. In the end, it's pretty inconsequential if Jesus was/wasn't a better example of a "man of peace" than Muhammad was. If it can be argued that Jesus' message was one of peace and empathy, then look at how his teaching could, none-the-less, be used by those who subsequently administered the faith that bore his name to spread misery, war, persecution and ignorance. We know the history.

    For reasons due to its path of historic, cultural and economic development, the West no longer wages war for religion. But, once you strip away the nonsense and propaganda, it's obvious that the reason why it does so now is money and the future potential to control resources from which more money can be made. What is worse or better in this? In the end, there are consequences for the human condition.

    that is partially correct.. but you can't deny the major influence that Religions can have
    in the human behavior. Is more easier dialogue about territorial issues ,than any dialogue
    about Religion or ideologies or talk to anyone who believe that what he does is in the name
    of a God. That said.. you will never see wars in the west in the name of religion . Only for
    territorial issues but that was 50 years ago or more when the geographical lines were not officially set in stone under international laws. That said ..there is a higher level of tolerance
    with different opinions in the west than in the middle east. that can be noticed and religion is a major reason for the differences .

    alright no more off topic. Off Topic

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  franco on Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:19 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    BKP wrote:^ The problem is not religion per se, it's human beings. In the end, it's pretty inconsequential if Jesus was/wasn't a better example of a "man of peace" than Muhammad was. If it can be argued that Jesus' message was one of peace and empathy, then look at how his teaching could, none-the-less, be used by those who subsequently administered the faith that bore his name to spread misery, war, persecution and ignorance. We know the history.

    For reasons due to its path of historic, cultural and economic development, the West no longer wages war for religion. But, once you strip away the nonsense and propaganda, it's obvious that the reason why it does so now is money and the future potential to control resources from which more money can be made. What is worse or better in this? In the end, there are consequences for the human condition.

    that is partially correct.. but you can't deny the major influence that Religions can have
    in the human behavior. Is more easier dialogue about territorial issues ,than any dialogue
    about Religion or ideologies or talk to anyone who believe that what he does is in the name
    of a God. That said.. you will never see wars in the west in the name of religion . Only for
    territorial issues but that was 50 years ago or more when the geographical lines were not officially set in stone under international laws. That said ..there is a higher level of tolerance
    with different opinions in the west than in the middle east. that can be noticed and religion is a major reason for the differences .

    alright no more off topic.  Off Topic

    Not so sure about that even today but definitely in the past millions were killed in the West among each other and against others. And what was Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia and Kosovo if not based on religion?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:07 pm

    ^ What verses from the Bible did Serbs quote to justify killing Croats and Bosniaks? Or the other way around?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:49 pm


    "US Journalists in Awe of Living Conditions at Russia’s Airbase in Syria"

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20151025/1029088435/journalists-surprised-living-conditions-hemeimeem.html#ixzz3pay4JuNS

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:07 pm

    [quote="Vann7"][quote="Werewolf"][quote="ultron"]
    Let's take a look what Islam means. Islam means submission. Submission to Allah. There is no other religion that talks about submission. This is why Islam is different from all other religions.[/quote]

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Yes, because Christianity is so non submissive?

    The only non submissive but disgusting supremacy religion there is is Judaism.

    But Islamophobia controlled by west and jews is very strong in you idiots.[/quote]

    All organized religions are a form of control of society.. all of them .
    the Difference here we speaking is about dangerous religion and dangerous control.
    When you train any child with a religion that controls every little thing of his life and he
    is not even allowed to think or feel outside what is acceptable for that religion.. then you
    have repression ,an spiritual dictatorship. that blocks that person expression and this
    create frustration and this frustration creates violence..and this is Islam. Islam lacks
    of the basics to teach people how to be tolerant with others. Simply critizism against the religion is not allowed..

    This repression does not exist in Christianity normal religions like Catholic ,evangelical or Orthodox ,neither in Budism..that is a religion without God. Is not a sin to think or to ask question. Is not a sin to question their church. the 10 commandments by the way is Jews
    old testament.. is not Christ teaching. Jesus law is just one.. the Gold Rule and nothing else.
    Do unto others in the same way you will like to be done unto you. but also Love God and yourself no matter what.

    This is really a big difference because Christianity teach people to love life about anything else
    while in ISlam is even encourage for people to give away their lives in the name of Islam. :no:

    Christianity never encourage people to give away their lives for ideas or any religion. Christianity never teach to give your life in defense of christianity.. what christianity teach
    is simple moral values of tolerance for others [u] no matter what. [/u]. hence the forgive
    seventy times seven speech of jesus.   :lol:

    .. while Islam instead teach to love the religion above anything else. So in Islam the religion is even more important than saving lives. This is why you can see a christian countries to welcome freedom of religion.. but you go to any Muslin nation and that is not the case. in the most "moderate" Muslin countries like IRAN many consider them to be.. Islam is the only religion..and only foreigners or minorities of ethnic groups allowed to practice a different religion ..but for example in IRAN is illegal for iranians to convert to christianity.  And Christianity is not allowed to be teach in Iranian language either. If i remember well people can go to jail for trying to convert Iranians into christianity.

    So there is religious dictatorship in all muslins nations. Syria is probably one of the rare cases.
    that is a true Secular nation.. And  This is why you have endless wars and violence in middle
    east. there is major resistance in Muslin Nations to change to more free and more open society.

    Welcome to "moderates Islam"   ,here is the tolerance of IRAN for Christianity.
    and i use IRAN as an example..because IRAN is "Russian ally" . and seen as true muslins.

    [quote]
    Can a Catholic practice in Iran?

    Neela Kale Answers:

    Officially, yes – Christianity is one of three religious minorities recognized by the Iranian government (the other two are Judaism and Zoroastrianism.) The Islamic Republic of Iran is officially a theocracy, in which political and religious authority are intertwined. Shia Islam is the state religion, but these three groups – which together make up barely 2% of the population – are protected and  [b] enjoy certain rights [/b]...

    [b]
    However, day-to day life can be extremely difficult for Christians. Conversion from Islam to another religion is forbidden in Iran and punishable by death; [/b]

    [/quote]

    http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/can-a-catholic-practice-in-iran

    Oh but why you were never told about this?  ;)  
    This are things you are not supposed to know.
    And you will never see discussion like this anywhere in the world in any media..not even
    Russian media or Putin will speak about this topic..because speaking about the
    [b]INTOLERANCE [/b] of Islam against any other religion is opening the gates of hell ,
    and the THE MOTHER OF ALL Pandora Box.. :lol1:

    Imagine the world reaction ,specially Europe if people knew how intolerant are muslin nations to Christianity, including the "moderates ones" how repressive they are.. and they are so hypocrites ,that goes to Europe and there demand the freedom for their religion to be allowed there to be fully expressed ,yet in their middle east countries they will welcome total repression
    against any other religion that is not Islam.

    In Saudi Arabia you risk public execution just for being christian. and if your gay ,you will be
    shot on sight in the airport.. :lol1:  In IRAN being gays is a crime..even in your privacy and  this is more example of INTOLERANCE.  Islam is not a religion that teach tolerance for opposite opinions sensitive things. And this is the reason of the endless wars in most of middle east.
    That are religious sectarian wars..but organized and controlled by the west this violence.

    The only exception perhaps is Palestine.. they fight for territorial issues. Mostly.

    Still there is something that unites all muslins either moderates or terrorist or the very good muslins. and that is their desire to convert the entire world into Islam. and they go and create
    Big families in order to become majority ,and they use all kind of tactics and move to Europe
    and Russia because of that. They want a world ruled by Islam. Many of this migration of muslins
    to Europe is a religious migration..with the job to convert Europe into Islam. So good luck Europeans with that. You have to be thankful to Americans Imperialism for the pro muslin migration policies of the EU. This is all aimed to create a culture in Europe ,not very
    compatible with an Orthodox Russia.  :)

    [/quote]
    Are you so sure christianity dont make oppresion cause i know for sure they do. Also do you like west like society. Well they have become savage regimes. And what islam does. Just protect from that kind of society.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    "US Journalists in Awe of Living Conditions at Russia’s Airbase in Syria"

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20151025/1029088435/journalists-surprised-living-conditions-hemeimeem.html#ixzz3pay4JuNS

    Journalists/all westerners, especially those who have not visited Russia lately would probably be surprised of the living standards in Russia in general. After all, according to the western MSM, Russia's living standards are abysmal (communism and kolkhozes) and the evil Putin (he eats babies, btw) has collapsed the Russian economy (100% oil). Not that the Russian REGIME (Putin, Putin Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin's missile!!!! Putin's bombers!!!! Putin's troops!!! Putin's Crimea!!! Putin's Russians!!! Putin's...) cares about the people's well being anyway, Putin just wants to recreate the (evil!) Soviet Union.

    Suspect




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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:11 pm

    [quote="BKP"]^ The problem is not religion per se, it's human beings. In the end, it's pretty inconsequential if Jesus was/wasn't a better example of a "man of peace" than Muhammad. If it can be argued that Jesus' message was one of peace and empathy, then look at how his teaching could, none-the-less, be used by those who subsequently administered the faith that bore his name to spread misery, war, persecution and ignorance. We know the history.

    For reasons due to its path of historic, cultural and economic development, the West no longer wages war for religion. But, once you strip away the nonsense and propaganda, it's obvious that the reason why it does so now is money and the future potential to control resources from which more money can be made. What is worse or better in this? In the end, there are consequences for the human condition.[/quote]


    YOU SAY RELIGIOUS PRIESTS ARENT LIKE MONEY? YOURE SO WRONG!

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:16 pm

    [quote="Vann7"][quote="BKP"]^ The problem is not religion per se, it's human beings. In the end, it's pretty inconsequential if Jesus was/wasn't a better example of a "man of peace" than Muhammad was. If it can be argued that Jesus' message was one of peace and empathy, then look at how his teaching could, none-the-less, be used by those who subsequently administered the faith that bore his name to spread misery, war, persecution and ignorance. We know the history.

    For reasons due to its path of historic, cultural and economic development, the West no longer wages war for religion. But, once you strip away the nonsense and propaganda, it's obvious that the reason why it does so now is money and the future potential to control resources from which more money can be made. What is worse or better in this? In the end, there are consequences for the human condition.[/quote]

    that is partially correct.. but you can't deny the major influence that Religions can have
    in the human behavior. Is more easier dialogue about territorial issues ,than any dialogue
    about Religion or ideologies or talk to anyone who believe that what he does is in the name
    of a God. That said.. you will never see wars in the west in the name of religion . Only for
    territorial issues but that was 50 years ago or more when the geographical lines were not officially set in stone under international laws. That said ..there is a higher level of tolerance
    with different opinions in the west than in the middle east. that can be noticed and religion is a major reason for the differences .

    alright no more off topic.  :otopic: [/quote]


    Religion will be back in power in west. Btw if you think usa realllllly care so much about international law you are wrong. Influence and interests are still main things in politics. C'mon lets not use that "america is the place of total peace and inocence"

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:20 pm

    [quote="Walther von Oldenburg"]^ What verses from the Bible did Serbs quote to justify killing Croats and Bosniaks? Or the other way around?[/quote]


    You would be surprise to see how much pressure serbia has in the past from other countryes. For example ww1 was start because pressure of the german and prusia empires on serbia

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #4

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:54 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:^ What verses from the Bible did Serbs quote to justify killing Croats and Bosniaks? Or the other way around?


    You would be surprise to see how much pressure serbia has in the past from other countryes. For example ww1 was start because pressure of the german and prusia empires on serbia

    FFS this is getting as bad as the old Ukraine thread at MP.net and I don't think any of us here want that to happen, wading through the off topic dross to get at the on topic stuff.

    Please lay off this religion sh*t.

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