Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia pre and post Communism times

    Share

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:58 pm

    Hi all,
    I wanted to know is

    1.what the life was like for Russians before Bolsheviks came to power and what was it like for them under the Tsars, was it better or worse?

    2.Did the majority of Russians want a revolution and topple the monarchy?

    3.Did Communists improve the lives of Russians during Soviet times?

    4.What would Russia have been like if communists had never taken it over?

    Thanks

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:54 pm

    Ill address purely based upon my family perspective:
    1) if you werent a land owner or had a high position, life was not very good. My great grandfather owned land and was cossack.

    2)Not all Russians. Like my great grandfather.

    3)Depends which era. Apparently under Breznev and Kruschev it was pretty decent. Everyone had a roof over their head, food on the table, most of the infrastructure was still new(ish) and maintained. Education was good and such. Some personal freedoms of lets say ease of getting a new car was more difficult but transit system was leaps and bounds better than most western countries.

    4) I imagine it wouldnt be different. Eventually the people would have gotten rid of the monarchy or monarchy would have lost all power and be a figure head like everyone else. Industrial revolution would have happened anyway so I imagine a lot of similar industries they have now would have existed. Maybe there would be even more poorer people and average person may be heavily in debt and not own their own homes. Soviet times gave nearly everyone their own flat. So in todays times, most people have their own home.

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:59 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Ill address purely based upon my family perspective:
    1) if you werent a land owner or had a high position, life was not very good. My great grandfather owned land and was cossack.

    2)Not all Russians. Like my great grandfather.

    3)Depends which era. Apparently under Breznev and Kruschev it was pretty decent. Everyone had a roof over their head, food on the table, most of the infrastructure was still new(ish) and maintained. Education was good and such. Some personal freedoms of lets say ease of getting a new car was more difficult but transit system was leaps and bounds better than most western countries.

    4) I imagine it wouldnt be different. Eventually the people would have gotten rid of the monarchy or monarchy would have lost all power and be a figure head like everyone else.  Industrial revolution would have happened anyway so I imagine a lot of similar industries they have now would have existed. Maybe there would be even more poorer people and average person may be heavily in debt and not own their own homes. Soviet times gave nearly everyone their own flat.  So in todays times, most people have their own home.
    Are you Russian?
    I was born in Russia and my Mum told me that my great grand dad had to flee from his farm (he was a wealthy man) as the Bolsheviks were coming to confiscate all what he had worked for and would have probably arrested him.

    I really wonder how it would have worked out for Russia had it not been for the Communist regime. On one hand it was a cruel regime on the other they were a great power with some amazing technological advances. I am not a fan of Communism or Soviet regime but there were a few achievements one could be proud of such as space advancement and the victory over Germans as well as everyone had a job back then, there were no homeless people at all.

    Would you say life in Russia are much better now than it was in Soviet times?

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:13 pm

    Some family is from areas of Russia, or former Russian empire (funny enough, Novorussian territory) while some others are from Lviv (so former Polish territory). I was born here in Canada. Still here in Canada and cannot leave till my Wife more or less is ready.

    Some will view their lives worst now than before.  Some will see their lives much better than before.  It all depends on the people really.  There are the liberal Russians who just hate themselves no matter how good they may got it. You can find these people anywhere though and not just Russians (they just get most of the media attention compared to the other national ones with the same attitude).  There are Russians who are happy with even little.  There are Russians who seem to have everything and want more, etc etc etc.  Would I say the system is better now? Yes and No.  I would say yes in the pretext that you can pretty much buy whatever you want, and go wherever you want so long as you have the money to do so.  Life can be very similar to anywhere else so long as you have the money.  The no aspect would be that there isn't the same security as before.  In other words, there are homeless people in Russia, there are really hungry people in Russia.  There are people who can barely obtain the basic necessities.  Most of these issues were not evident till the end of the soviet union (mostly just hungry).  These days, it almost seems like a dog vs dog world like the USA which I am totally against and I think the fellow man is supposed to help their neighbor out, and vice versa.   But this is a byproduct of the glorification of the west.  That also said, the 90's brought a lot of disaster and only in the resent years (maybe decade) has Russia really been trying to fix the issues.  So many issues though are leftovers that it will take decades more to fix.  They are on the right track though.

    Soviet Union though, for countries like Ukraine, would have been a ton better than it is now.  Just look what they have done to themselves in the last year.  Absolutely disgusting.  Kinda sad when my own family members whom are from Ukraine state that it is just a loser country.  Soviet times is what really helped change that country for the better.  And now they squandered it away.

    Svyatoslavich
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 254
    Points : 265
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:41 pm

    There was a previous thread ("History of Imperial Russia") where the same question was asked, I will just copy the same post I placed there:
    [Imperial Russia] was a mostly rural, peasant country for sure, but with the fastest industrial growth in the world in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Serfdom was abolished around 1860, and this improved the conditions of many peasants. Most peasants were very poor compared to Western Europeans, but anyway there were a few who were rich, others who could be considered middle class (small landowners), and literacy was also growing fast among peasants and workers. I know a woman whose parents were Byelorussians (Russian-speaking) and moved to Argentina in the 1920's - they were peasants, literate and owned their land, and had good cultural and material life conditions before the revolution. The reforms put in practice by prime-minister Stolypin in the early 20th century gave arable lands in Southern Siberia and low-interest credits for peasants, which also improved their condition. Revolutionaries were so afraid of Stolypin's reforms because, if successful, it would delay or simply abort the revolution they were fighting for (revolutionaries, either liberal or socialist, are evil because they necessarily need the conditions of the people to be extremely bad, otherwise no revolution will ever occur), and he was assassinated by an anarchist in Kiev. Last, there was a thriving middle class in cities, consisting of traders, doctors, professors, lawyers, etc.
    Does this mean that everything was perfect in Russia, that everyone was happy before the Revolution? Of course not, there was a lot of injustices, inequalities and oppression, from which revolutionary feelings bred. But the Bolsheviks, striving for a "perfect" society, only made things worse, and a terrible terror regime under Lenin and Stalin came upon Russia that caused dozens of millions to die, many of the brightest people to emigrate, a situation much worse than anything the previous tsars and emperors had ever done, even those considered the bloodiest ones, like Ivan IV. Russia is nowadays in a current difficult demographic situation mostly due to the Bolsheviks - not only the terror from 1917-1953, but also legal abortion and low birth rate have decimated Russian population. Before the Revolution, Russia had a very fast growing population.

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:43 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Some family is from areas of Russia, or former Russian empire (funny enough, Novorussian territory) while some others are from Lviv (so former Polish territory).  I was born here in Canada.  Still here in Canada and cannot leave till my Wife more or less is ready.

    Some will view their lives worst now than before.  Some will see their lives much better than before.  It all depends on the people really.  There are the liberal Russians who just hate themselves no matter how good they may got it. You can find these people anywhere though and not just Russians (they just get most of the media attention compared to the other national ones with the same attitude).  There are Russians who are happy with even little.  There are Russians who seem to have everything and want more, etc etc etc.  Would I say the system is better now? Yes and No.  I would say yes in the pretext that you can pretty much buy whatever you want, and go wherever you want so long as you have the money to do so.  Life can be very similar to anywhere else so long as you have the money.  The no aspect would be that there isn't the same security as before.  In other words, there are homeless people in Russia, there are really hungry people in Russia.  There are people who can barely obtain the basic necessities.  Most of these issues were not evident till the end of the soviet union (mostly just hungry).  These days, it almost seems like a dog vs dog world like the USA which I am totally against and I think the fellow man is supposed to help their neighbor out, and vice versa.   But this is a byproduct of the glorification of the west.  That also said, the 90's brought a lot of disaster and only in the resent years (maybe decade) has Russia really been trying to fix the issues.  So many issues though are leftovers that it will take decades more to fix.  They are on the right track though.

    Soviet Union though, for countries like Ukraine, would have been a ton better than it is now.  Just look what they have done to themselves in the last year.  Absolutely disgusting.  Kinda sad when my own family members whom are from Ukraine state that it is just a loser country.  Soviet times is what really helped change that country for the better.  And now they squandered it away.
    So what does your family in Ukraine think of the Ukrainian crisis? Maidan last year?

    I think with Putin Russia began to improve but it has come to a halt now due to the Western sanctions, I think that is how the West, namely,the US can really manipulate Russia by imposing sanctions on Russia so it can't prosper but without the West it will be much harder to move on..

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:44 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:There was a previous thread ("History of Imperial Russia") where the same question was asked, I will just copy the same post I placed there:
    [Imperial Russia] was a mostly rural, peasant country for sure, but with the fastest industrial growth in the world in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Serfdom was abolished around 1860, and this improved the conditions of many peasants. Most peasants were very poor compared to Western Europeans, but anyway there were a few who were rich, others who could be considered middle class (small landowners), and literacy was also growing fast among peasants and workers. I know a woman whose parents were Byelorussians (Russian-speaking) and moved to Argentina in the 1920's - they were peasants, literate and owned their land, and had good cultural and material life conditions before the revolution. The reforms put in practice by prime-minister Stolypin in the early 20th century gave arable lands in Southern Siberia and low-interest credits for peasants, which also improved their condition. Revolutionaries were so afraid of Stolypin's reforms because, if successful, it would delay or simply abort the revolution they were fighting for (revolutionaries, either liberal or socialist, are evil because they necessarily need the conditions of the people to be extremely bad, otherwise no revolution will ever occur), and he was assassinated by an anarchist in Kiev. Last, there was a thriving middle class in cities, consisting of traders, doctors, professors, lawyers, etc.
    Does this mean that everything was perfect in Russia, that everyone was happy before the Revolution? Of course not, there was a lot of injustices, inequalities and oppression, from which revolutionary feelings bred. But the Bolsheviks, striving for a "perfect" society, only made things worse, and a terrible terror regime under Lenin and Stalin came upon Russia that caused dozens of millions to die, many of the brightest people to emigrate, a situation much worse than anything the previous tsars and emperors had ever done, even those considered the bloodiest ones, like Ivan IV. Russia is nowadays in a current difficult demographic situation mostly due to the Bolsheviks - not only the terror from 1917-1953, but also legal abortion and low birth rate have decimated Russian population. Before the Revolution, Russia had a very fast growing population.
    Thanks buddy.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:44 pm

    andrewlya wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Some family is from areas of Russia, or former Russian empire (funny enough, Novorussian territory) while some others are from Lviv (so former Polish territory).  I was born here in Canada.  Still here in Canada and cannot leave till my Wife more or less is ready.

    Some will view their lives worst now than before.  Some will see their lives much better than before.  It all depends on the people really.  There are the liberal Russians who just hate themselves no matter how good they may got it. You can find these people anywhere though and not just Russians (they just get most of the media attention compared to the other national ones with the same attitude).  There are Russians who are happy with even little.  There are Russians who seem to have everything and want more, etc etc etc.  Would I say the system is better now? Yes and No.  I would say yes in the pretext that you can pretty much buy whatever you want, and go wherever you want so long as you have the money to do so.  Life can be very similar to anywhere else so long as you have the money.  The no aspect would be that there isn't the same security as before.  In other words, there are homeless people in Russia, there are really hungry people in Russia.  There are people who can barely obtain the basic necessities.  Most of these issues were not evident till the end of the soviet union (mostly just hungry).  These days, it almost seems like a dog vs dog world like the USA which I am totally against and I think the fellow man is supposed to help their neighbor out, and vice versa.   But this is a byproduct of the glorification of the west.  That also said, the 90's brought a lot of disaster and only in the resent years (maybe decade) has Russia really been trying to fix the issues.  So many issues though are leftovers that it will take decades more to fix.  They are on the right track though.

    Soviet Union though, for countries like Ukraine, would have been a ton better than it is now.  Just look what they have done to themselves in the last year.  Absolutely disgusting.  Kinda sad when my own family members whom are from Ukraine state that it is just a loser country.  Soviet times is what really helped change that country for the better.  And now they squandered it away.
    So what does your family in Ukraine think of the Ukrainian crisis? Maidan last year?

    I think with Putin Russia began to improve but it has come to a halt now due to the Western sanctions, I think that is how the West, namely,the US can really manipulate Russia by imposing sanctions on Russia so it can't prosper but without the West it will be much harder to move on..

    First off, they think it is stupid and the Maiden is simply destroyed the country.  Second, Russias improvements haven't haulted.  I suggest you take your time to read through the economic threads and what not.  If you continue that BS reasoning about needing the west, I will request to have you banned due to trolling.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t4513-russian-economy-general-news-2

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:28 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    andrewlya wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Some family is from areas of Russia, or former Russian empire (funny enough, Novorussian territory) while some others are from Lviv (so former Polish territory).  I was born here in Canada.  Still here in Canada and cannot leave till my Wife more or less is ready.

    Some will view their lives worst now than before.  Some will see their lives much better than before.  It all depends on the people really.  There are the liberal Russians who just hate themselves no matter how good they may got it. You can find these people anywhere though and not just Russians (they just get most of the media attention compared to the other national ones with the same attitude).  There are Russians who are happy with even little.  There are Russians who seem to have everything and want more, etc etc etc.  Would I say the system is better now? Yes and No.  I would say yes in the pretext that you can pretty much buy whatever you want, and go wherever you want so long as you have the money to do so.  Life can be very similar to anywhere else so long as you have the money.  The no aspect would be that there isn't the same security as before.  In other words, there are homeless people in Russia, there are really hungry people in Russia.  There are people who can barely obtain the basic necessities.  Most of these issues were not evident till the end of the soviet union (mostly just hungry).  These days, it almost seems like a dog vs dog world like the USA which I am totally against and I think the fellow man is supposed to help their neighbor out, and vice versa.   But this is a byproduct of the glorification of the west.  That also said, the 90's brought a lot of disaster and only in the resent years (maybe decade) has Russia really been trying to fix the issues.  So many issues though are leftovers that it will take decades more to fix.  They are on the right track though.

    Soviet Union though, for countries like Ukraine, would have been a ton better than it is now.  Just look what they have done to themselves in the last year.  Absolutely disgusting.  Kinda sad when my own family members whom are from Ukraine state that it is just a loser country.  Soviet times is what really helped change that country for the better.  And now they squandered it away.
    So what does your family in Ukraine think of the Ukrainian crisis? Maidan last year?

    I think with Putin Russia began to improve but it has come to a halt now due to the Western sanctions, I think that is how the West, namely,the US can really manipulate Russia by imposing sanctions on Russia so it can't prosper but without the West it will be much harder to move on..

    First off, they think it is stupid and the Maiden is simply destroyed the country.  Second, Russias improvements haven't haulted.  I suggest you take your time to read through the economic threads and what not.  If you continue that BS reasoning about needing the west, I will request to have you banned due to trolling.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t4513-russian-economy-general-news-2
    I'm definitely not a troll, I'm glad I'm on this forum but surely people should be allowed to express their opinions and look at the situation from different angles, this is a forum for duverse discussions.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:45 am

    Nobody is going to be banned for thinking x or y.

    Of course I would say that the only leverage the US had... and it was clearly fairly minor, had now pretty much severed ties with Russia. That is why they were so desperate to force their so called EU allies to also sanction Russia.

    The real problem for them is that such sanctions didn't make Russia collapse into a wimpering jelly that appologises and asks to be allow to be the bitch of the west again.

    Russia simply looked elsewhere and even within its own borders for solutions and guess what... they found perfectly good solutions there.

    I am looking forward to the panic when the EU drops its sanctions and Russia drops its sanctions but Russians have gotten so used to buying from other countries they don't buy from the EU any more... it is an excellent opportunity for central and south american producers and asian producers and african producers to enter a market and sell their products and not use commerce as a weapon like those cowardly Europeans do.

    Russia is better off without the west... it should trade with some european nations, but as a whole should treat the EU the way the EU treats Russia... as a trading partner when it suits and as an enemy when it doesn't.

    The US and EU only consist of a tiny part of the real world and Russia can survive and grow without them.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:Nobody is going to be banned for thinking x or y.

    Of course I would say that the only leverage the US had... and it was clearly fairly minor, had now pretty much severed ties with Russia. That is why they were so desperate to force their so called EU allies to also sanction Russia.

    The real problem for them is that such sanctions didn't make Russia collapse into a wimpering jelly that appologises and asks to be allow to be the bitch of the west deb

    Russia simply looked elsewhere and even within its own borders for solutions and guess what... they found perfectly good solutions there.

    I am looking forward to the panic when the EU drops its sanctions and Russia drops its sanctions but Russians have gotten so used to buying from other countries they don't buy from the EU any more... it is an excellent opportunity for central and south american producers and asian producers and african producers to enter a market and sell their products and not use commerce as a weapon like those cowardly Europeans do.

    Russia is better off without the west... it should trade with some european nations, but as a whole should treat the EU the way the EU treats Russia... as a trading partner when it suits and as an enemy when it doesn't.

    The US and EU only consist of a tiny part of the real world and Russia can survive and grow without them.
    Cheers bud, I had been looking for a pro Russia forum for a bit before I found this one so was happy about it because I'm pro Russia.So when someone accuses me of being a "troll" and thretened with banningbanning when I'm not being abusive or offensive, it is harsh and unfair as all I like diverse discussions and like to look at a situations from a different perspective it doesn't mean I'm a troll.This is a forum where people debate on hot topics if you don't agree with someone on certain things you don't just ban them for it dunno

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:40 pm

    But there is a clear difference of having an opinion on a topic that isnt about faith or belief, but about a none scientific topic like economics; and having cold hard facts pointed and still believing what you wrote.  That is fine if it is how you may see it, but if you tout the same line regardless of said evidence, then one can only expect to bew viewed as a troll by others.

    The thread I linked is always being looked at and updated.  As KVS said, the GDP drop is mainly due to inflation since Inflation is what dropped consumer demand considerably and retail turnover. Consumer demand mixed with retail turnover account for roughly 80% of Russias economy. Oil and gas account for only 13.4% and the drop in value was mitigated by drop in Ruble value meaning Russia obtained same amount of Rubles (well, not really same, still less) than before the drop.  Another factor is the automotive industry in Russia employs roughly 700,000 people and accounts for over 20% of Russias industrial production (I wager it is more) and due to inflation and mixed with low demand, the automotive industry us getting hit real hard (40% drop roughly).  Mix these together and you have trouble.  But the benefit that is coming out of all of this is that Russian products are much cheaper, creating a new demand for them, and sanctions have allowed Russia to start producing far more than they did before (increasing export potential as well as keeping money circulating in the country).

    All sanctions have done was prevent Russian private entities and government from obtaining cheap loans from their monopoly banks.  Instead, it has forced Russia to change direction, aim for paying their foreign debt off (dropped from over $700B to $500B in private debt terms) and seeking funding elsewhere (Venture funds like Rusnano, Investments from Reserve fund and Welfare fund, higher interest from their own banks, through corporate savings, private investments from individuals or banks (selling stock/bonds), etc).

    Cheap monopoly money from US cannot effect anyone if they are cut off, evident was Iran for 30 years. It will just make the respective country develop a real economy.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:39 am

    Forgive him... I think he likes it here and fears west strong fanbois coming in and just stirring up fights to entertain themselves.

    Personally I actually like the high moral standards that the US talks about and I think their goals are generally lofty goals... the problem is that they make no effort to apply their rules and morals on themselves and just use them to demonise others when it suits.

    An example is liberal laws on homosexuality... they claim Putin is homophobic yet ignore laws in the middle east in countries it calls friend like Saudi Arabia that include the death penalty for homosexual acts.

    I don't hate the west... I just prefer the honesty of Putin... but I suspect over time even Russia will get their fleet of lawyers and experts of spin... What I hope is that the rest of the world sees Russia as an alternative future path of growth and expansion rather than the US centred west... a unipolar world instead of the American empire.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:50 pm

    I wasnt mad at him, just kinda curious about his wordings. But I agree with you completely, but just have to say that the west has the good intentions in terms of average persons ideology, but as the saying goes "the road to hell is paved by good intentions".

    andrewlya
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 77
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-08-18

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  andrewlya on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:Forgive him... I think he likes it here and fears west strong fanbois coming in and just stirring up fights to entertain themselves.

    Personally I actually like the high moral standards that the US talks about and I think their goals are generally lofty goals... the problem is that they make no effort to apply their rules and morals on themselves and just use them to demonise others when it suits.

    An example is liberal laws on homosexuality... they claim Putin is homophobic yet ignore laws in the middle east in countries it calls friend like Saudi Arabia that include the death penalty for homosexual acts.

    I don't hate the west... I just prefer the honesty of Putin... but I suspect over time even Russia will get their fleet of lawyers and experts of spin... What I hope is that the rest of the world sees Russia as an alternative future path of grocery and expansion rather than the US centred west... a unipolar world instead of the American empire.
    Cheers Garry, I do like it here because I can speak to like minded people, I've been looking for a pro Russia forum for ages.I'm glad I've found one.

    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1149
    Points : 1162
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:Forgive him... I think he likes it here and fears west strong fanbois coming in and just stirring up fights to entertain themselves.

    Personally I actually like the high moral standards that the US talks about and I think their goals are generally lofty goals... the problem is that they make no effort to apply their rules and morals on themselves and just use them to demonise others when it suits.

    An example is liberal laws on homosexuality... they claim Putin is homophobic yet ignore laws in the middle east in countries it calls friend like Saudi Arabia that include the death penalty for homosexual acts.

    I don't hate the west... I just prefer the honesty of Putin... but I suspect over time even Russia will get their fleet of lawyers and experts of spin... What I hope is that the rest of the world sees Russia as an alternative future path of growth and expansion rather than the US centred west... a unipolar world instead of the American empire.

    +1 thumbsup

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:54 am

    Actually Seph... I don't believe the west has good intentions... I think it is selfish and mean and vindictive.

    Most western politicians are interested in reelection only and not about making the world a better place.

    When they see a weak country with anything of value they try to overthrow the government and get some western puppets installed ASAP so they can bleed that country dry.

    Why is it that when banks get greedy they are suddenly too big to fail and get 750 billion dollars to bail them out, yet all those bad loans they gave out have to be paid and all those home owners are going to lose their houses...

    When I was a kid the law pretty much said if you loan someone money you knew they could not pay back then that was your problem. The banks believed it was a win win situation... borrow 1 million dollars to buy a house... who cares if you can pay... the bank can sell your house and get all its money back and then some because the price of houses keeps going up and up.

    Except when the price of houses goes down... you have a loan for a house for 1 million dollars that isn't worth 1 million dollars even if you could sell it... and even if you did sell it you would still owe the bank and have no where to live.

    real stupid of you, but real stupid of the banks too... why does the bank get a bail out but the guy with the huge loan not get a bail out?

    Because the banks control the government with money.

    Economic crash... 750 billion dollars of taxpayers money and no one went to jail... if the west had an independent media we might find the truth... sadly we don't.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:05 am

    GarryB wrote:Actually Seph... I don't believe the west has good intentions... I think it is selfish and mean and vindictive.

    Most western politicians are interested in reelection only and not about making the world a better place.

    When they see a weak country with anything of value they try to overthrow the government and get some western puppets installed ASAP so they can bleed that country dry.

    Why is it that when banks get greedy they are suddenly too big to fail and get 750 billion dollars to bail them out, yet all those bad loans they gave out have to be paid and all those home owners are going to lose their houses...

    When I was a kid the law pretty much said if you loan someone money you knew they could not pay back then that was your problem. The banks believed it was a win win situation... borrow 1 million dollars to buy a house... who cares if you can pay... the bank can sell your house and get all its money back and then some because the price of houses keeps going up and up.

    Except when the price of houses goes down... you have a loan for a house for 1 million dollars that isn't worth 1 million dollars even if you could sell it... and even if you did sell it you would still owe the bank and have no where to live.

    real stupid of you, but real stupid of the banks too... why does the bank get a bail out but the guy with the huge loan not get a bail out?

    Because the banks control the government with money.

    Economic crash... 750 billion dollars of taxpayers money and no one went to jail... if the west had an independent media we might find the truth... sadly we don't.

    I meant to say people themselves, not the government. The government is plain evil, no doubt about that.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia pre and post Communism times

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:41 pm


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:41 pm