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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  marat on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:54 pm

    I am not sure if I understood well but seems that production of 2 more Kakakuts is started. ( or at least 3 more are ordered)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110323/
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:49 pm

    marat wrote:I am not sure if I understood well but seems that production of 2 more Kakakuts is  started. ( or at least  3 more are ordered)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110323/

    It states 27 are to be built under contract and three more have been laid down within that 27 number.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  franco on Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:17 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    marat wrote:I am not sure if I understood well but seems that production of 2 more Kakakuts is  started. ( or at least  3 more are ordered)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110323/

    It states 27 are to be built under contract and three more have been laid down within that 27 number.

    That includes the 12 21631. One of the deputies made the statement last year that 18 Kakakuts were planned. Six in the Pacific and 12 in the West.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:07 am

    They reference TASS http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5412853
    Which quotes Borisov
    "Now the construction of the first three of these ships has begun at the Eastern shipyard, I think that with the release of new models interest in them will increase,"

    But the paragraph before seems to have him saying they are already in service in several fleets...
    According to him, currently the "Karakurts" are equipped with units of the Russian Navy, in particular, the Baltic, Northern, Black Sea fleets, the Caspian Flotilla.
    And its not just a Google translate thing, Yandex gives same translation Suspect

    Honesroc

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Honesroc on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:32 am

    Tingsay wrote:I forgot Parchim was a light ASW. However, there should be no replacement for any light ASW. Decades ago yeah I see why they made them. Now? its just a half-assed anti-sub weapon. Shipborne light weight torpedos suck in these day and age. Outranged and outsped by submarine heavy torpedoes, its not funny. Helicopters for anti-sub or get out. Pr 22160 should have a ASW variant as replacement for Parchims.

    I understand the Steregushchiy class to be an ASW platform

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:00 am


    That 2nd boat must be pretty damn close to starting trials.
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:07 am

    Honesroc wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:I forgot Parchim was a light ASW. However, there should be no replacement for any light ASW. Decades ago yeah I see why they made them. Now? its just a half-assed anti-sub weapon. Shipborne light weight torpedos suck in these day and age. Outranged and outsped by submarine heavy torpedoes, its not funny. Helicopters for anti-sub or get out. Pr 22160 should have a ASW variant as replacement for Parchims.

    I understand the Steregushchiy class to be an ASW platform

    What about this one?

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/08/new-project-23420-small-anti-submarine-warfare-ship/

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miroslav on Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:48 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Honesroc wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:I forgot Parchim was a light ASW. However, there should be no replacement for any light ASW. Decades ago yeah I see why they made them. Now? its just a half-assed anti-sub weapon. Shipborne light weight torpedos suck in these day and age. Outranged and outsped by submarine heavy torpedoes, its not funny. Helicopters for anti-sub or get out. Pr 22160 should have a ASW variant as replacement for Parchims.

    I understand the Steregushchiy class to be an ASW platform

    What about this one?

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/08/new-project-23420-small-anti-submarine-warfare-ship/

    Complete BS, the Bykov class, an existing ship that is in production, is 25% larger with all the room needed for all the bells and whistles necessary for ASW.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:08 am

    miroslav wrote:Complete BS, the Bykov class, an existing ship that is in production, is 25% larger with all the room needed for all the bells and whistles necessary for ASW.

    Not convinced.  The Bykov is a great vessel and carries the pre-requisite helo, but she lacks bow sonar, and despite what some think, adding such is a big engineering change.  A true ASW ship should also have a towed sonar array, torpedo launchers, a short-range MLRS like an RBK/RBU (don't underestimate these things in littoral settings...), and preferably a UKSK for an 8-pack of long range ASW missiles.  The Bykov can carry some of these, but not all, and while a suitably kitted-out Bykov can be a very useful long duration sub-hunter (PDragons idea of a Bykov working the SSBN bastions is a great example), there would still be a need for specialised fast-reaction ASW vessels with more comprehensive sensors and weapons.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:34 am

    3* 22800s at Zaliv, sometime about Feb/March via Yandex

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  kumbor on Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:45 pm


    Project 23420 looks very interesting, but such a ship, of more than 1300tonsD must have dedicated SAM missiles, not only short range Gibka mount. Say, Pantsir-M.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:59 pm

    kumbor wrote:
    Project 23420 looks very interesting, but such a ship, of more than 1300tonsD must have dedicated SAM missiles, not only short range Gibka mount. Say, Pantsir-M.

    Nah, that project is dead-end. It doesn't even have helicopter hangar. A non-starter for anti-sub ship these days.

    ...........

    Bykov-class would be able to have RBK/RBU installed behind main gun instead of AA VLS or marine housing.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miroslav on Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:04 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    miroslav wrote:Complete BS, the Bykov class, an existing ship that is in production, is 25% larger with all the room needed for all the bells and whistles necessary for ASW.

    Not convinced.  The Bykov is a great vessel and carries the pre-requisite helo, but she lacks bow sonar, and despite what some think, adding such is a big engineering change.  A true ASW ship should also have a towed sonar array, torpedo launchers, a short-range MLRS like an RBK/RBU (don't underestimate these things in littoral settings...), and preferably a UKSK for an 8-pack of long range ASW missiles.  The Bykov can carry some of these, but not all, and while a suitably kitted-out Bykov can be a very useful long duration sub-hunter (PDragons idea of a Bykov working the SSBN bastions is a great example), there would still be a need for specialised fast-reaction ASW vessels with more comprehensive sensors and weapons.


    I generally agree but I also think that Bykov can be updated to carry all those things.

    Installing a bow sonar is not easy, that's true, but not all ships meant for ASW have them or need them, many of them like the smaller Russian ASW corvettes and the Gepard class frigates have a hull mounted sonar and a variable depth sonar (the dipping kind) along with a towed array (frigates).

    Gepard class has the Zarnitsa sonar suite and the MGK-335EM-03 sonar, if any one has more info on these please share it!

    Bykov has plenty of speed and endurance and considering its a long patrol vessel it must be stable in high seas. It also has plenty of room.

    I do agree about the RBU-6000, is mandatory in all cases. With the new "smart-active" mines it is a very good system. In case of bigger ships, the British Duke class frigates only carry small caliber torpedoes, the Stingray, and use the helicopter as the main offensive platform for ASW, the 4 torpedo tubes (2 on each side) are more for self defense that anything else.  

    Bykov can be easily (relative term) updated to have a hull mounted sonar, towed array or dipping sonar at least, 2X4 launchers for Paket-NK torpedoes , RBU-6000, and there is the hello that can carry 1-2 torpedoes on its on plus a dipping sonar.

    The only think that troubles me about the Bykov class is that the superstructure is very weird, having a large open space at he back. A ship like this at the open sea will need a Pantsir-M for decent air protection but I don't know where they would put it and place the other stuff like the RBU-6000.

    Another thing that I would mention is that we still do not know how the back side of the ship is actually confgured, what are the dimension, will the top side be able to open like doors for a containerized launcher beneath etc.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:14 am

    I am surprised they have not developed a more modern stealthy version of the RBU-6000 launchers... I mean SAM arm launchers are now gone, so why not vertical launch RBU rockets... or even retractable launch bins that can be angled to fire rockets in specific directions...

    I remember seeing a mockup of a small patrol vessel that had a tiny VLS that certainly could have been decoy and jamming rockets...

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:08 pm

    Testing continues


    Edit: another


    Edit2: again at the wall

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