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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:23 am

    Speaking of the radar, looks like a Positiv dome to me?

    Kinda would have expected Furke since thats based on the Pantsir radar.
    Maybe it is but just with a different dome than on 20380?

    Preferably its a version of the Pantsir-S2 double-sided AESA rather than either the S1 based Furke or Positiv.
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    Benya

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  Benya on Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:51 am

    hoom wrote:Speaking of the radar, looks like a Positiv dome to me?

    Kinda would have expected Furke since thats based on the Pantsir radar.
    Maybe it is but just with a different dome than on 20380?

    Preferably its a version of the Pantsir-S2 double-sided AESA rather than either the S1 based Furke or Positiv.

    It is Mineral-ME.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:15 am

    It is Mineral-ME.
    But then what air search radar does it have?

    Typhoon the 2nd boat
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:35 am

    What about the sonar? As in, if it's a corvette, there's got to be a sonar. Towed array perhaps?
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:37 pm

    Technical specifications

    Length: about 67m
    Width: approx. 11m
    Displacement: about 800 t
    Full speed: up to 30 knots
    Range: up to 2500 miles

    Armament:
    RK "Caliber-NK";
    1x 76.2 mm AU AK-176MA AP1;
    2x 30 mm AC AU-630M;
    2x 12.7 mm PU "Kord".

    The MRK is equipped with modern control systems, RTV, radio communication, navigation, electronic warfare and countermeasures, anti-sabotage weapons, portable SAMs.
    Domestic power plant based on 3 diesel engines M-507D-1 and 3 diesel generators DGAS-315 produced by PJSC "Zvezda".


    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1969082.html

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Some info on Pr.22800 construction in Bmpd:


    -"small missile ship" is the description if some dont like "corvette" Smile
    -At least 18 ships will be constructed. First seven ordered in Pella shipyard. 5 in Zelenodolsky Plant
    -Pella also is the main investor in More Shipyard, Feodosiya. Thats why some ships will be constructed there.
    -Zaliv Shipyard, Kerch is managed by Zelenodolsk Plant and first 3 ships of Zelenodolsk Plant's order will be built there
    -Pantsir naval SAM will be put on 3rd ship of the class and beyond


    Project 22800 was developed by JSC "Central Marine Design Bureau" Almaz "(St. Petersburg) and should actually replace small-scale missile ships (MRK) of Project 21631 (code number" Buyan-M ") in the construction for the Russian Navy of the JSC Zelenodolsk Design Bureau "(The construction of the latter is limited to 12 units). Earlier it was reported that the Russian Navy planned to have no less than 18 ships of Project 22800. The construction of the first seven  is carried out by the Pella plant under a contract received in accordance with the order of the Government of the Russian Federation for the company's receipt of the status of the only supplier for this project.

    The ceremony of laying the first two small missile ships of the project 22800 Uragan (plant number 251) and Typhoon (plant number 252) for the Russian Navy was held at the Pella plant on December 24, 2015. The delivery of their navy under the terms of the contract with the Russian Defense Ministry is scheduled for 2017 and 2018 respectively.

    During the descent of the "Uragan", Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov confirmed that he "hopes" that the main ship will be delivered by the end of 2017.

    Yuri Borisov also said about the future prospects of the project 22800 that "from a certain ship we will pacify" Pantsir "and put it on it." Uragan "will not have it, but the third ship of Pella will go with the "Pantsir". He stressed that "there are no problems with the anti-aircraft missile system for the ships of this project."

    By the present time, two more RTOs of the 22800 project with the names "Shkval" (plant number 253, laid July 29, 2016) and "Storm" (plant number 257, laid down on December 24, 2016) are being constructed at the Pella plant.

    Since the Pella plant is the main investor of the Moret Shipyard in Feodosia (Crimea), and in November 2016 received the latter's capacity for lease until December 31, 2020, respectively, of the seven RTOs of Project 22800 ordered by the "Pella", three ships should be built at NW "Sea" in close cooperation with "Pella", which led to the transfer of the construction of three units to Feodosia. The first RTOs of this project, Okhotsk (plant number 255), was laid in Feodosia on March 17, 2017 It is characteristic that the RTOs under construction in Feodosia received construction Numbers from 254 to 256 "in a row" of the building numbers of this project on "Pella".

    On August 5, 2016, the Zelenodolsky Plant named after AM Gorky (Zelenodolsk) received the contract of the Russian Defense Ministry for the construction of another five small missile ships of Project 22800 for the Navy. At the same time Zelenodolsk plant was actually received under temporary management of Zaliv Shipbuilding Plant LLC in Kerch (Crimea) from the end of 2014. According to unofficial information, the main Zelenodolsky IRC of Project 22800, called "Cyclone" (serial number 801), was without special Publicity was laid at the Zaliv shipbuilding plant in Kerch in the summer of 2016. According to available information, two next RTOs of the 22800 project with factory numbers 802 (also laid in 2016) and 803 are already being built at the Zaliv plant.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2759160.html


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    franco

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:42 pm

    Small missile ship is the official designation. thumbsup

    To add to your list, another 6 are to be built for the Pacific Fleet possibly at the Amur Shipyard.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:47 pm

    franco wrote:Small missile ship is the official designation. thumbsup

    To add to your list, another 6 are to be built for the Pacific Fleet possibly at the Amur Shipyard.

    thumbsup interesting. That means that they will replace other classes also in Russian Navy, not just 21631 of BLS fleet


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:48 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Small missile ship is the official designation. thumbsup

    To add to your list, another 6 are to be built for the Pacific Fleet possibly at the Amur Shipyard.

    thumbsup interesting. That means that they will replace other classes also in Russian Navy, not just 21631 of BLS fleet

    Definitely. There are loads of smaller ships in inventory like Nanuchka-class that will need replacement soon and Karakurts not only fit the bill but also dwarf them when it comes to capability.

    And production rate is damn good, 12 under construction already with 6 more to start in Pacific and that's just first series.

    This project is also "entry exam" for Pella as a naval shipbuilder. It is already clear that they are capable of handling bigger stuff. Once they finish this first batch of Karakurts in St. Pete they should be given Derzkii class to work on.

    Construction of following Karakurts can proceed at Crimea afterwards.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:49 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Small missile ship is the official designation. thumbsup

    To add to your list, another 6 are to be built for the Pacific Fleet possibly at the Amur Shipyard.

    thumbsup interesting. That means that they will replace other classes also in Russian Navy, not just 21631 of BLS fleet

    Expect them to work in conjuncture with the 21631 and replace the others.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  miroslav on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:52 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:What about the sonar? As in, if it's a corvette, there's got to be a sonar. Towed array perhaps?

    Why would there have to be a sonar because it's a corvette, regardless of the fact that it is actually a missile boat.

    A corvette, by "definition", is the smallest of the "actual" fighting ships, but it can never be a frigate or a destroyer, you need a frigate size ship (105 -120m min.) at least to be able to fit all the weapons an sensors for all the possible threats, surface, air and subsurface.

    A corvette is usually a 75 to 90 meter long ship, that size allows only so much, don't be misled by the size of something like the 20380 ships, these are frigates in all the ways that something can be a frigate, regardless of the official designation as corvettes.

    Current trends are such that a 90 long ship is either going to be:
    1. A long range patrol ship with a helicopter and guns and a potential for anti snip missiles.
    2. A dedicated ASW ship with sonar, towed array etc. but only short range air defense based, quite often, only on guns.
    3. A fighting ship with some restrictions in some of the offensive capabilities, usually solid anti snip weapons, god guns and a short to medium SAM system at best, but with limited number of missiles, usually 16 in case of medium range or around 30 or so for short range (IR guided), a ship like this certainly could have a sonar dome and small torpedo launchers but the existence of a medium SAM and ASW weapons prevents you from having room for a helicopter, that's where you need the extra 10 -15 meters.

    A try multi purpose fighting ship starts with the size of a frigate.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:46 am

    The order for the construction of six small missile ships project 22800 can get the Amur plant

    As reported by the newspaper Kommersant in an article by Herman Kostrinsky, "Karakurt" will be smeared at the shipyards. The Defense Ministry will place an order for the construction of six small missile ships of Project 22800 for the Pacific Fleet at the Amur Shipyard, part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) in 2018. The first 12 ships of the series are being built for the Navy by the Leningrad Pellet Shipyard and Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant named after Gorky, which are not included in the USC. The solution fits into the concept of uniform distribution of orders. At the Ministry of Defense, the solution is explained by convenient logistics.

    The Ministry of Defense has determined where to place the order for the construction of the third part of the series of small missile ships (MRK) of Project 22800 Karakurt.
    Yesterday, during the ceremony of launching the main IRA unit Uragan at the Pella shipbuilding plant in the Leningrad Region, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov announced that the order will be received by the Amur Shipbuilding Plant (ASZ) in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, owned by USC.

    All six ships will serve in the Pacific Fleet, therefore their manufacture in the western part of Russia in the military department is considered inexpedient because of the high costs for subsequent transfer to the duty station. "There are plans to contract six more ships from 2018. Most likely, they will build the Amur Shipyard, because they are intended for the Pacific Fleet. Because of the complex logistics, it is more expedient to build in the Far East, giving the loading to the shipbuilding assets, "explained the logic of the selection of the executing agent of the deputy defense minister.

    According to him, the Ministry of Defense hopes that the construction of one MRK will not exceed two years, which is very short for military ships. The head company "Uragan" launched yesterday in water was laid in December 2015 and should be transferred to the fleet in December 2017.

    In total, the ministry ordered 12 series ships for today. Contracts for seven of them are concluded with the shipyard "Pella" Herbert Tsaturov, who also holds the post of general director at the enterprise. According to him, of the number of MRKs ordered, four will be built on the main production site in the Leningrad region, three more will be built at the Feodosia shipyard "More", the capacity of which Pella leases from the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation. Construction of five more ships is being carried out by the Zelenodolsk plant named after Gorky in Tatarstan, some of which, according to Kommersant's information, will be built at the Zaliv shipbuilding plant, controlled by the enterprise, in Kerch. In the course of the Naval Salon of 2015 in St. Petersburg, the ex-commander-in-chief of the Navy Viktor Chirkov said that the Navy would order at least 18 ships. The decision to build them was made in connection with the delay in the construction of the frigates of the project 11356 at the Kaliningrad plant "Yantar" (see "Kommersant" on July 2, 2015). In the USC decided to suspend the construction of three ships of the series due to the lack of power plants, which because of the foreign policy conflict between Russia and Ukraine did not deliver the Nicholas Zorya-Mashproekt. Subsequently, the frigates were decided to equip the Rybinsk NPO Saturn with Russian gas turbine units. Project 22800 is equipped with diesel engines of the St. Petersburg PJSC "Zvezda".

    The ships of Project 22800 will be equipped with cruise missiles Caliber and anti-ship missiles "Onyx", artillery installation AK-176. According to Yuri Borisov, "Karakurts" will get naval anti-aircraft missile system "Pantsir-M" from the third series ship.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2761143.html


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:41 pm

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:46 pm

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:25 pm

    Couple of interesting recent pics from Pella via Balancer

    So far so meh, just the front of the mast right?

    But

    Shocked
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:40 pm

    hoom wrote:Couple of interesting recent pics from Pella via Balancer
    ...............
    So far so meh, just the front of the mast right?

    But
    ..............
    Shocked

    Elaborate dude, some of us live in landlocked countries....
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:20 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    hoom wrote:Couple of interesting recent pics from Pella via Balancer
    ...............
    So far so meh, just the front of the mast right?

    But
    ..............
    Shocked

    Elaborate dude, some of us live in landlocked countries....

    For the cavemen who live in landlocked countries:

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:55 pm


    Ahhh, got it. thumbsup

    Any reason why would they skip rear radars on first ship? I know they sometimes trim down weapons on lead ships but not radars...
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:24 am

    My guess is the original design had Positiv or Furke in the dome, the panels being anti-ship targeting radar but now they are going for 360 AESA with the Pantsir-M.

    Its a kinda weird explanation but I think better than them suddenly realising its dumb to have AESA covering only the front but not the rear.


    Either way this change presumably indicates existence/progress on new AESA Smile
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:39 pm

    1st Pr.22800 Karakurt corvette Uragan at Pella shipyard, Leningrad Oblast, Russia. Via Curious at airbase.ru



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