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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

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    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  marat on Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:33 am

    Karakut is not blue navy ship. It is not brown either.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:41 am

    ult wrote:Getting ready.


    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:10 am

    The 76.2mm ammo is lighter so for a given weight more ammo can be carried, and AFAIK they are developing guided shells and special fused options for guns from 30mm, 57mm, and 76.2mm calibre and up, so performance against aircraft or objects in flight should actually be pretty good... think super AHEAD rounds.


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    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  marat on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:50 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.


    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    Well yes this is a bit larger FAC but that is quite fine RuNavy need those kind of ships for replacing old nanuchka and Tarantul class FAC.

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:04 am

    marat wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.


    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    Well yes this is a bit larger FAC but that is quite fine RuNavy need those kind of ships for replacing old nanuchka and Tarantul class FAC.


    With less than 1,000 tons (800?) it's almost funny to call that a corvette. That's the upper scale of FACs (or compact VLS-equipped FAC hybrid that it really is). Nobody is going to have a good time sailing in that in the open seas on the way, say to the Med or Atlantic.

    But sure, it sounds grandiose for the politicians and corporate elite to call their projects something they are not. A corvette becomes a frigate and a large patrol craft becomes a corvette. Everybody 's happy apart from the average Ivan sailing in it lol1

    PS. Using that tiny boat to replace something like the Krivak II is almost criminal.

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  miroslav on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:20 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    marat wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.


    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    Well yes this is a bit larger FAC but that is quite fine RuNavy need those kind of ships for replacing old nanuchka and Tarantul class FAC.


    With less than 1,000 tons (800?) it's almost funny to call that a corvette. That's the upper scale of FACs (or compact VLS-equipped FAC hybrid that it really is). Nobody is going to have a good time sailing in that in the open seas on the way, say to the Med or Atlantic.

    But sure, it sounds grandiose for the politicians and corporate elite to call their projects something they are not. A corvette becomes a frigate and a large patrol craft becomes a corvette. Everybody 's happy apart from the average Ivan sailing in it lol1

    PS. Using that tiny boat to replace something like the Krivak II is almost criminal.

    I think that it's the "I can't see a corvette." that's making the big problem here. The ship is shaped/designed in a way that many FACs and large patrol boats are, visually and that makes sense in this case, but do not forget the actual size, just look at the person in the picture. The Karakut is 6-7m longer than Tarantul or Nancutka. Let's not forget the fact that there is nothing in the class that has the same firepower.

    The German Braunschweig class (classics example of a new western corvette) has only 4 dedicated anti-ship missiles a gun and AA missiles, which will be remedied and overshadowed after the Pantsir module is installed. Point is, the western counterparts can't make a strategic contributor to the fight the Russian ones can.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:24 pm

    miroslav wrote:I think that it's the "I can't see a corvette." that's making the big problem here. The ship is shaped/designed in a way that many FACs and large patrol boats are, visually and that makes sense in this case, but do not forget the actual size, just look at the person in the picture. The Karakut is 6-7m longer than Tarantul or Nancutka. Let's not forget the fact that there is nothing in the class that has the same firepower.

    The German Braunschweig class (classics example of a new western corvette) has only 4 dedicated anti-ship missiles a gun and AA missiles, which will be remedied and overshadowed after the Pantsir module is installed. Point is, the western counterparts can't make a strategic contributor to the fight the Russian ones can.

    That's because western counterparts rely on delivering such strategic force to their Air Force (NATO can get the Med, Atlantic, Baltic, North Seas covered on every corner just using core air bases), heavy frigates/destroyers, SSNs/SSGNs, LHDs and aircraft carriers. Same applies for Israel in its own part of the Med.

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  miroslav on Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:03 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miroslav wrote:I think that it's the "I can't see a corvette." that's making the big problem here. The ship is shaped/designed in a way that many FACs and large patrol boats are, visually and that makes sense in this case, but do not forget the actual size, just look at the person in the picture. The Karakut is 6-7m longer than Tarantul or Nancutka. Let's not forget the fact that there is nothing in the class that has the same firepower.

    The German Braunschweig class (classics example of a new western corvette) has only 4 dedicated anti-ship missiles a gun and AA missiles, which will be remedied and overshadowed after the Pantsir module is installed. Point is, the western counterparts can't make a strategic contributor to the fight the Russian ones can.

    That's because western counterparts rely on delivering such strategic force to their Air Force (NATO can get the Med, Atlantic, Baltic, North Seas covered on every corner just using core air bases), heavy frigates/destroyers, SSNs/SSGNs, LHDs and aircraft carriers. Same applies for Israel in its own part of the Med.

    That's only partially try, if you count out the Muricans, how many NATO countries actually have frigates and destroyers that can launch long range land attack missiles not to mention a supersonic anti-ship missiles, all from the same ship.

    I am not trying to make the Karakuts more that they are, but a battle group of 4 of them covered by maybe two frigates for air defense can launch a serious attack on any other NATO group consisting out of much larger ships, theoretically at least.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:09 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.

    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    That's because it's not a corvette. It never was.

     It's missile ship/boat (whatever it's called in English, my guess is ship)

    Only time I heard it being called corvette is in MSM articles, probably because they try to describe it in terms their regular readers are familiar with.

    And if Germany can call those Braunschweig ships corvettes then Karakurt is pretty much there although I would hardly call Braunschweig a corvette. Looks more like offshore patrol vessel to me.

    It's 10-15% larger than Karakurt and yet it has 50% less endurance and anemic weaponry. Just stretch Karakurt​ enough to add a helipad and you can officially call it corvette by that logic.

    That entire late 19th century naming convention for ships has become completely meaningless. Just compare new UK destroyers with new US ones. They should drop whole naming system and move to light/medium/heavy/etc.. like for rockets.
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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:13 pm

    miroslav wrote:That's only partially try, if you count out the Muricans, how many NATO countries actually have frigates and destroyers that can launch long range land attack missiles not to mention a supersonic anti-ship missiles, all from the same ship.

    I am not trying to make the Karakuts more that they are, but a battle group of 4 of them covered by maybe two frigates for air defense can launch a serious attack on any other NATO group consisting out of much larger ships, theoretically at least.

    Karakurts and Buyan-Ms are what every modern Navy's FACs should be. Same goes for Gremyashchiys and Dzerkiys in the corvette level. And then the same for Grigorovichs in the frigate level. All these classes are armed with peak firepower/capability for their tonnage. EU NATO members (and Canada) seem to have lost the plot on the whole surface vessel/land attack game. RN may be the exception once that Type 26 gets going, but that will take a decade.

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.

    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    That's because it's not a corvette. It never was.

     It's missile ship/boat (whatever it's called in English, my guess is ship)

    Only time I heard it being called corvette is in MSM articles, probably because they try to describe it in terms their regular readers are familiar with.

    And if Germany can call those Braunschweig ships corvettes then Karakurt is pretty much there although I would hardly call Braunschweig a corvette. Looks more like offshore patrol vessel to me.

    It's 10-15% larger than Karakurt and yet it has 50% less endurance and anemic weaponry. Just stretch Karakurt​ enough to add a helipad and you can officially call it corvette by that logic.

    That entire late 19th century naming convention for ships has become completely meaningless. Just compare new UK destroyers with new US ones. They should drop whole naming system and move to light/medium/heavy/etc.. like for rockets.

    Germans are not a nation from which one should care to evaluate choices on surface vessels, apart from their FACs in the 70s and 80s. Which were quite successful. Their recent choices on Frigates and corvettes is a joke.

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  marat on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:20 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    ult wrote:Getting ready.

    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.

    That's because it's not a corvette. It never was.

     It's missile ship/boat (whatever it's called in English, my guess is ship)

    Only time I heard it being called corvette is in MSM articles, probably because they try to describe it in terms their regular readers are familiar with.

    And if Germany can call those Braunschweig ships corvettes then Karakurt is pretty much there although I would hardly call Braunschweig a corvette. Looks more like offshore patrol vessel to me.

    It's 10-15% larger than Karakurt and yet it has 50% less endurance and anemic weaponry. Just stretch Karakurt​ enough to add a helipad and you can officially call it corvette by that logic.

    That entire late 19th century naming convention for ships has become completely meaningless. Just compare new UK destroyers with new US ones. They should drop whole naming system and move to light/medium/heavy/etc.. like for rockets.

    Are we talking about same ship???
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig-class_corvette

    2x bigger then Karakut and totaly different role.
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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:23 pm



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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:33 pm

    marat wrote:.......

    Are we talking about same ship???
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig-class_corvette

    2x bigger then Karakut and totaly different role.

    2x heavier but longer enough to just have a helipad installed. It doesn't even carry a helicopter, just UAVs

    It's patrol vessel/minelayer combo with less endurance than Karakurt and yet people call it corvette

    It is clear that neither ship is a corvette by any standard

    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  marat on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:36 pm

    Well patroling is just what is corvettes job. Any way not 10-15% bigger.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:39 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    marat wrote:.......

    Are we talking about same ship???
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig-class_corvette

    2x bigger then Karakut and totaly different role.

    2x heavier but longer enough to just have a helipad installed. It doesn't even carry a helicopter, just UAVs

    It's patrol vessel/minelayer combo with less endurance than Karakurt and yet people call it corvette

    It is clear that neither ship is a corvette by any standard

    200 km range on that RBS mk3 not to shabby. Better than the baseline Uran or even Exocet mkiii.
    I'd not outright deny Braunschweigs corvette privileges. They're big and capable enough.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:10 pm

    Whats the reasoning behind the karakurts getting 76mm guns instead of 100mm ones?
    Pure weight I expect.
    Smaller gun = more displacement available for UKSK & Pantsir-M.
    Not like 76mm is particularly weak, the OTO Melara 76mm is very widely used up to large Frigate class ships.

    I can't see a corvette. This looks like a large patrol craft/FAC, quite small and lightly-armed for a 2017 corvette.
    From that angle yes it looks like a patrol boat.
    But that look couldn't be more deceiving.

    What a Face


    Very low profile cover over the radar panels on the mast, might have thought they've been deleted from the final design if we hadn't seen the holes during building.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:45 pm

    More pics & better quality via Balancer forum love




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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:49 pm










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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:01 pm


    So it looks like Amur will be on the job soon:

    ...Russia plans to build six more Karakurt-class (Project 22800) corvettes for the needs of the country's Pacific Fleet at the shipyards located in Russia's Far East, Borisov added...

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201707291055993431-russia-navy-22800-kalibr-missiles/
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:07 pm





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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:36 pm

    Is everything on it fully installed and ready for testing?
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    Benya

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  Benya on Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:02 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Is everything on it fully installed and ready for testing?

    Sure, it is slated for delivery in December of this year, until that it will undergo sea trials. For me at first this 5 months trial sounded a bit short, but this is a small ship with not much combat systems to test, so it's OK.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  miroslav on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:01 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Is everything on it fully installed and ready for testing?

    It's about 95% done, final fitting out probably wont take long, no ship is ever launcher 100% ready.

    Just by looking, it's missing all the countermeasures launchers, the EW pods at the sides of the main mast (2 on each side), the fire control radar for the guns that will be in front of the main mast, you can see the base where it will be put on one of the pictures of the upper bridge structure, the navigation radar in front of the upper radar dome and probably a few antennas.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:54 am

    Where the missiles at?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:29 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:Where the missiles at?

    Right behind radar, dead center of the ship

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