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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:32 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    cracker wrote:wouldn't russian airforce be better served by SU-17M4 or MiG-27K instead of the SU-25?

    For remember, those 2 attack aircrafts were stupidly scraped because "single engine should not remain in service" bullshit.... Both planes have FAR better flying characteristics, are more sophisticated, and can deliver same playload, plus the MiG has a gun like A-10. Those 2 (imagine if they were upgraded as well!) would also be far more safe from light AAA and MANPADS...

    What do you think?

    of course this question is only for those who know the topic and the aircrafts in question.

    Maybe Russia should take out of depots a good 30 of them and just send them there... would be cheap.

    the SU-25 is an dedicated ground attack fighter. its the Russian counterpart to the A-10 Warthog. the SU-25 may not get the speeds and altitude of an fighter but it was never designed to do that, its there to smash ground target's with its twin-30 MM guns and payload. the SU-25 got decent armour for an CAS fighter and can make turns in an pretty small area and align itself on targets in urban area's easier than the one's you mentioned.

    you can imagine when ISIS does an assault and an SU-25 manages to align itself with the very road they are walking on and fires an salvo of its twin 30 MM cannon they are hamburger.

    I think the fixed wing air asset's currently deployed by Russia is an good combination. they got the SU-35 for air patrol, SU-34 for advanced bombing tasks. SU-24 is an adequate aircraft as well to just carpet-bomb the shit out of ISIS in an cost-effective way. and the SU-25 is an heavy ground hitter that has a lot of potential to support ground forces.  

    i am of opinion this is a battlefield effective and cost-effective deployment of aircraft by Russia. i read somewhere Russia spends about a dozen of Million dollars per day on their air campaign in total. thats a very different number what im used to hear when NATO does its bombings in Afghanistan.

    just sending an NATO fighter in the air with full payload already ranges almost in the 1 Million dollar range. there is a reason NATO is bankrupt nowadays after 10 years of "regime change" and resorted to throwing practice concrete bombs in Libya's campaign. too damn expensive wars and equipment. and as a sidenote half the crap does not even work as advertised.

    So i'd say Russia is not doing bad at all Wink.

    Actually it's the Su-30SM that's on air patrol, not the Su-35.

    cracker
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  cracker on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:44 am

    ok thanks for answers.

    I just feel that there is a gap between "overkill" (expensive to fly) SU-24 and the "fixed-wing HIND" SU-25, and that using SU-17 or Mig-27 instead for most missions would be cheaper.

    I hope syrian air force will be rebuilt and even improved.

    what is the current status? What planes (for cheap) should syrian AF receive from russia? I feel that SU-17 and MiG-27 (which they have already in forms of SU-22 and Mig-23 strike variant) should be given in mass.

    It's true that SYAF got 6 mig-31? i feel it's bullshit, also, what could they do with it?? this type of interceptor has no use in such a small country, and it's along way before syrian tactics and pilots can possibly use the mig-31 to its real potential


    Poland keeps a big number of SU-22M4 in service, it must be a decent enough plane. I mean, it's a great plane, poland seems satisfied with it (though one wonders what they could possibly do with it against their fantasy of russian invasion)


    So we are at what, about 800 total air sorties for the russians so far? And not a single malfunction, loss, or accident? pretty decent! Only with some 30 aircrafts!

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:49 am

    cracker wrote:ok thanks for answers.

    I just feel that there is a gap between "overkill" (expensive to fly) SU-24 and the "fixed-wing HIND" SU-25, and that using SU-17 or Mig-27 instead for most missions would be cheaper.

    I hope syrian air force will be rebuilt and even improved.

    what is the current status? What planes (for cheap) should syrian AF receive from russia? I feel that SU-17 and MiG-27 (which they have already in forms of SU-22 and Mig-23 strike variant) should be given in mass.

    It's true that SYAF got 6 mig-31? i feel it's bullshit, also, what could they do with it?? this type of interceptor has no use in such a small country, and it's along way before syrian tactics and pilots can possibly use the mig-31 to its real potential


    Poland keeps a big number of SU-22M4 in service, it must be a decent enough plane. I mean, it's a great plane, poland seems satisfied with it (though one wonders what they could possibly do with it against their fantasy of russian invasion)

    No, they do not operate MiG31s even tho they did try to obtain 8 newly built MiG31E few years ago, that contract was frozen/scrapped.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:11 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Actually it's the Su-30SM that's on air patrol, not the Su-35.

    good correction, thanx man. i forgot for a moment the small "wings" on the front of the main wings and its other characteristic features.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:15 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Actually it's the Su-30SM that's on air patrol, not the Su-35.

    good correction, thanx man. i forgot for a moment the small "wings" on the front of the main wings and its other characteristic features.

    They are basically canards, just placed behind cockpit.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:40 am


    Shoddy source but like the title...

    End of ISIS near? Caliphate so depleted it is recruiting disabled CHILDREN to killing army

    DESPERATE Islamic State (ISIS) is forcing ever younger children to fight for it as it slides closer and closer to an all out defeat, a retired army leader has said


    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/613583/Islamic-State-ISIS-child-soldiers-Putin-Russian-airstrikes-defeat

    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Shoddy source but like the title...

    End of ISIS near? Caliphate so depleted it is recruiting disabled CHILDREN to killing army

    DESPERATE Islamic State (ISIS) is forcing ever younger children to fight for it as it slides closer and closer to an all out defeat, a retired army leader has said


    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/613583/Islamic-State-ISIS-child-soldiers-Putin-Russian-airstrikes-defeat

    Well as long as ISIS Still control oil wells... It can still recruits ppl and buy weapons. So it won't go down that easily.


    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  ult on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:27 am

    cracker wrote:ok thanks for answers.

    I just feel that there is a gap between "overkill" (expensive to fly) SU-24 and the "fixed-wing HIND" SU-25, and that using SU-17 or Mig-27 instead for most missions would be cheaper.

    I hope syrian air force will be rebuilt and even improved.

    what is the current status? What planes (for cheap) should syrian AF receive from russia? I feel that SU-17 and MiG-27 (which they have already in forms of SU-22 and Mig-23 strike variant) should be given in mass.

    It's true that SYAF got 6 mig-31? i feel it's bullshit, also, what could they do with it?? this type of interceptor has no use in such a small country, and it's along way before syrian tactics and pilots can possibly use the mig-31 to its real potential


    Poland keeps a big number of SU-22M4 in service, it must be a decent enough plane. I mean, it's a great plane, poland seems satisfied with it (though one wonders what they could possibly do with it against their fantasy of russian invasion)


    So we are at what, about 800 total air sorties for the russians so far? And not a single malfunction, loss, or accident? pretty decent! Only with some 30 aircrafts!

    And it's gonna be even more cheaper to fly Il-2's. What the hell dude? Su-17, Mig-27? And who's gonna fly those things? As a Russian I am deeply offended by your suggestion to risk pilot's lives to save a few bucks. Who the hell do you think we are???

    Cyberspec
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:43 am

    The Su-22 would be useful for the SyAF since they're already using them and are familiar with them. Some of the former Soviet states, I think Turkmenistan, has a shit load of them just sitting around at some air field....they would need to be overhauled obviously but it wouldn't cost a fortune to get a squadron or two airworthy

    Vann7
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:27 am



    Meanwhile after Russia show of force in Syria and cruise missile attack..
    NATO response was trident juncture 2015 ,major military exercises since world war 2,
    to show how they are ready to counter Russia with their invasion. lol1

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=286_1445376597




    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:08 am

    You can't get away with just using cheap semi expendable aircraft.

    Very simply the aircraft the Russians are using are not basic simple cheap aircraft... they have had lots of upgrades from the original models and include sophisticated optics and bomb aiming systems to allow the use of unguided bombs with reasonable accuracy (for area targets) and precision weapons very accurately (for point targets).

    If you are bombing an ammo or fuel depot then a cluster of 4 or more unguided bombs will ensure even a well spread out store of weapons and or fuel can be hit and effectively destroyed.

    In comparison when the target is a bunker or specific building a few square metres with concrete and steel rod reinforcement then just one bomb is needed but it needs to be accurate... so satellite guidance and laser terminal homing would allow good enough precision.

    Against an area target precision is not as important as distribution of HE and fragments, but some accuracy is always needed to get bombs on target.

    Against point targets a single bomb should get the job done and the better the accuracy the more effectively it can do the job.

    An Su-22 or MiG-27 in their upgraded forms... ie MiG-27K or MiG-27M, and the Su-22M4 could carry guided bombs and unguided bombs though they would need a Gefest & T upgrade to get the necessary accuracy with dumb bombs... but at the end of the day a MiG-29SMT, MiG-29M2 or Su-27SM would make rather more sense. Both economic and in practical terms of keeping good pilots alive for future missions.


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    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  ult on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:48 pm


    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:35 pm

    Stuff in Novorossiysk, soon to be delivered to Syria: thumbsup


    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  ult on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:51 pm

    Old pics. Have already been delivered.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:44 pm


    Sorties/Targets hit:



    As for other graphs, someone could translate... study







    Провинция
    Суток ударов
    Идлиб 16
    Хама 14
    Алеппо 12
    Латакия 11
    Дамаск 9
    Ракка 8
    Дэйр-Эз-Зор 5
    Хомс 4

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1537905.html

    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  ult on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    As for other graphs, someone could translate... study




    Types of targets:

    Blue - command centers.

    Orange - positions.

    Gray - training camps.

    Purple - storage/workshops.


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