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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

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    ult
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  ult on Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:28 pm








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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:40 pm


    Interesting interpretation of events:

    Putin’s Blitz Leaves Washington Rankled and Confused

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/01/putins-blitz-leaves-washington-rankled-and-confused/


    On Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin delivered a blistering critique of US foreign policy to the UN General Assembly.

    On Tuesday, Barack Obama shoved a knife in Putin’s back. This is from Reuters:

    “France will discuss with its partners in the coming days a proposal by Turkey and members of the Syrian opposition for a no-fly zone in northern Syria, French President Francois Hollande said on Monday…

    French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius “in the coming days will look at what the demarcation would be, how this zone could be secured and what our partners think,” Hollande told reporters on the sidelines of the annual United Nations General Assembly…

    Hollande said such a proposal could eventually be rubber-stamped with a U.N. Security Council resolution that “would give international legitimacy to what’s happening in this zone.”…(France, partners to discuss northern Syria ‘safe zone’: Hollande, Reuters)

    Hollande is a liar and a puppet. He knows the Security Council will never approve a no-fly zone. Russia and China have already said so. And they’ve explained why they are opposed to it, too. It’s because they don’t want another failed state on their hands like Libya, which is what happened last time the US and NATO imposed a no-fly zone.

    But that’s beside the point. The real reason the no-fly zone issue has resurfaced is because it was one of the concessions Obama made to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan for the use of Incirlik airbase. Washington has kept the terms of that deal secret, but Hollande has let the cat out of the bag.

    So who put sock-puppet Hollande up to this no-fly zone nonsense?

    Why the Obama administration, of course. Does anyone seriously believe that Hollande is conducting his own independent policy in Syria? Of course not. Hollande is just doing what he’s been told to do, just like he did when he was told to scotch the Mistral deal that cost France a whopping $1.2 billion. Washington and NATO didn’t like the idea that France was selling state-of-the-art helicopter carriers to arch-rival Putin, so they ordered Hollande to put the kibosh on the deal. Which he did, because that’s what puppets do; they obey their masters. Now he’s providing cover for Obama so the real details of the Incirlik agreement remain off the public’s radar. That’s why we say, Obama shoved a knife in Putin’s back, because, ultimately, the no-fly zone damages Russia’s interests in Syria.

    The significance of the Reuters article cannot be overstated. It suggests that there was a quid pro quo for the use of Incirlik, and that Turkey’s demands were accepted. Why is that important?

    Because Turkey had three demands:

    1–Safe zones in north Syria (which means that Turkey would basically annex a good portion of Syrian sovereign territory.)
    2–A no-fly zone (which would allow either Turkish troops, US Special Forces or US-backed jihadi militants to conduct their military operations with the support of US air cover.)
    3–A commitment from the US that it will help Turkey remove Assad.

    Did Obama agree to all three of these demands before Erdogan agreed to let the USAF use Incirlik?

    Yes, at least I think he did, which is why I think we are at the beginning of Phase 2 of the US aggression against Syria. Incirlik changes everything. US bombers, drones and fighters can enter Syrian airspace in just 15 minutes instead of 3 to 4 hours from Bahrain. That means more sorties, more surveillance drones, and more air-cover for US-backed militias and Special Forces on the ground. It means the US can impose a de facto no-fly zone over most of Syria that will expose and weaken Syrian forces tipping the odds decisively in favor of Obama’s jihadi army. Incirlik is a game-changer, the cornerstone of US policy in Syria. With access to Incirlik, victory is within Washington’s reach. That’s how important Incirlik is.

    And that’s why the normally-cautious Putin decided to deploy his warplanes, troops and weaponry so soon after the Incirlik deal was signed. He could see the handwriting on the wall. He knew he had to either act fast and turn the tide or accept the fact that the US and Turkey were going to topple Assad sometime after Turkey’s snap elections on November 1. That was his timeline for action. So he did the right thing and joined the fighting.

    But what does Putin do now?

    On Wednesday, just two days after Putin announced to the UN General Assembly: “We can no longer tolerate the current state of affairs in the world,” Putin ordered the bombing of targets in Homs, an ISIS stronghold in West Syria. The attacks, which were unanimously approved by the Russian parliament earlier in the day, and which are entirely legal under international law (Putin was invited by Syria’s sitting president, Assad, to carry out the airstrikes), have put US policy in a tailspin. While the Russian military is maintaining an open channel to the Pentagon and reporting when-and-where it is carrying out its airstrikes, U.S. State Department spokesman John Kirby said that the US plans to “continue to fly missions over Iraq and Syria” increasing the possibility of an unintended clash that could lead to a confrontation between the US and Russia.

    Is that what Washington wants, a violent incident that pits one nuclear-armed adversary against the other?

    Let’s consider one probable scenario: Let’s say an F-16 is shot down over Syria while providing air cover for Obama’s militants on the ground. Now that Russia is conducting air raids over Syria, there’s a good chance that Putin would be blamed for the incident like he was when the Malaysian airliner was downed over East Ukraine.

    So what happens next?

    Judging by similar incidents in the past, the media would swing into full-propaganda mode exhorting the administration to launch retaliatory attacks on Russian military sites while calling for a broader US-NATO mobilization. That, in turn, would force Putin to either fight back and up-the-ante or back-down and face disgrace. Either way, Putin loses and the US gets one step closer to its objective of toppling Bashar al Assad.

    Putin knows all this. He understands the risks of military involvement which is why he has only reluctantly committed to the present campaign. That said; we should expect him to act in much the same way as he did when Georgian troops invaded South Ossetia in 2007. Putin immediately deployed the tanks to push the invading troops back over the border into Georgia and then quickly ended the hostilities. He was lambasted by critics on the right for not invading Georgia and removing their leader, Mikheil Saakashvili, in the Capital. But as it turned out, Putin’s restraint spared Russia the unnecessary hardship of occupation which can drain resources and erode public support. Putin was right and his critics were wrong.

    Will his actions in Syria mirror those in South Ossetia?

    It’s hard to say, but it’s clear that the Obama crew is thunderstruck by the speed of the intervention. Check this out from the UK Guardian: “Back at the White House, spokesperson Josh Earnest suggests that Vladimir Putin did not give Barack Obama warning about his intentions to begin air strikes in Syria.

    “We have long said we would welcome constructive Russian coordination,” Earnest says, before qualifying that the talks between US and Russian militaries will be purely tactical: “to ensure that our military activities and the military activities of coalition partners would be safely conducted.” (The Guardian)

    What does Earnest’s statement mean? It means the entire US political class was caught off-guard by Putin’s blitz and has not yet settled on an appropriate response. They know that Putin is undoing years of work by rolling up proxy-units that were supposed to achieve US objectives, but there is no agreement among ruling elites about what should be done. And making a decision of that magnitude could take time, which means that Putin should be able to obliterate a fair number of the terrorist hideouts and restore control of large parts of the country to Assad before the US ever agrees to a strategy. In fact, if he moves fast, he might even be able to force the US and their Gulf allies to the bargaining table where a political solution could be reached.

    It’s a long-shot, but it’s a much better option then waiting around for the US to impose a no-fly zone that would collapse the central government and reduce Syria to Libya-type anarchy. There’s no future in that at all.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:42 pm


    Off-topic??? lol1 Razz

    "Greece Scrambles Jets After Turkish F16s Violate Airspace"

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151009/1028274796/greece-turkey-warplanes.html#ixzz3o58k8Skh

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:59 pm


    Troop rotation, KIL-158 with Marines on board going back.



    Now we know what uniforms guys over there use...

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Solncepek on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:19 pm



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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  zorobabel on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:35 pm

    Russian advisors, Al-Ghab Plain offensive:


    Source: https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/652492707785478144

    medo
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  medo on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:42 pm

    zg18 wrote:

    Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo

    It's nice to see targeting picture from Su-34.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  jhelb on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:51 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:My appraisal of the range of Kh-90 is much larger that the value you suggested. It's also an scramjet-powered system. My assessment is that if it got cancelled, that would be due to the fact that Russia has much more advanced systems in service, which is a given in itself.

    Thanks for clearing the mist Morpheus. My vote.

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:What we see does not define the extent of what exists. I have written a lot, on this forum, on this principle.

    Can you plz let me know in which thread you have written this I will find it out.

    Also, I am waiting for your post on munition failures since the US & NATO believes such things can never happen to their munition.


    Last edited by jhelb on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:51 pm

    My little take on the cruise missile strike: http://rusnews.net63.net/2015/10/09/mighty-strikes-from-russia-cruise-missiles-from-caspian-sea-and-us-claims-of-4-fallling-in-iran/

    Please provide any detail if I made any mistakes.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:34 pm

    Solncepek wrote:
    Interesting. There is video on youtube of the Iraqi TOS-1A being used against ISIL at Baiji not long ago so it is unlikely to be those moved to Syria. But the trees don't look like they should be in Iraq were the fighting is, which is desert, but trees like that are in Syria....

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Solncepek on Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:37 pm

    In Syria, there were heavy flamethrower system "sun"

    For the militants in Syria gets tough. Not only that, their positions on the Russian aircraft works, so now the front deployed heavy flamethrower system "sun." At least, this show photos that appeared on the Internet. They trailer with a tractor, "Volvo" throws TOC. Fighting vehicle painted in characteristic of the Syrian army camouflage.

    That is not Iraq or some other country, where previously supplied "sun", can be judged based on: the machine is made on the chassis of the T-72 and T-90 did not. It is "the nineties" were the basis for the setting for Iraq, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. Most of all, reflected in the photograph Syrian heavy flamethrower before was in the Russian army.

    Specifications:

    Weight, t. 44.3

    Crew. 3

    Top speed km / h 60

    Cruising, km. 500

    WEAPONS

    The launcher multi-lateral

    The number of guide tubes, pc. 24

    Range of fire, m .:

    - Minimum 400

    - Maximum 6000

    Time of full volley seconds. 6

    Type of ammunition Nursi.

    Heavy flamethrower system previously been successfully used during the fighting in Afghanistan, the Russian North Caucasus, as well as Iraq.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:29 pm

    Wallahi Bilahi Russian are nuts. Bbq Tow teams plus.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Monarchist on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:52 pm



    Just look at those inbred wahabi faces. Shocked And these are the "moderates"... Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Regular on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:09 pm

    zg18 wrote:

    Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo
    Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

    par far
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  par far on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:10 pm

    Monarchist wrote:

    Just look at those inbred wahabi faces. Shocked  And these are the "moderates"... Rolling Eyes


    These idiots make these statements and go hide, cowards.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Solncepek on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:12 pm

    How America can counter Putin’s moves in Syria

    By Condoleezza Rice and Robert M. Gates



    Condoleezza Rice was secretary of state from 2005 to 2009. Robert M. Gates was defense secretary from 2006 to 2011.

    One can hear the disbelief in capitals from Washington to London to Berlin to Ankara and beyond. How can Vladimir Putin, with a sinking economy and a second-rate military, continually dictate the course of geopolitical events? Whether it’s in Ukraine or Syria, the Russian president seems always to have the upper hand.

    Sometimes the reaction is derision: This is a sign of weakness. Or smugness: He will regret the decision to intervene. Russia cannot possibly succeed. Or alarm: This will make an already bad situation worse. And, finally, resignation: Perhaps the Russians can be brought along to help stabilize the situation, and we could use help fighting the Islamic State.

    The fact is that Putin is playing a weak hand extraordinarily well because he knows exactly what he wants to do. He is not stabilizing the situation according to our definition of stability. He is defending Russia’s interests by keeping Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in power. This is not about the Islamic State. Any insurgent group that opposes Russian interests is a terrorist organization to Moscow. We saw this behavior in Ukraine, and now we’re seeing it even more aggressively — with bombing runs and cruise missile strikes — in Syria.

    Putin is not a sentimental man, and if Assad becomes a liability, Putin will gladly move on to a substitute acceptable to Moscow. But for now, the Russians believe that they (and the Iranians) can save Assad. President Obama and Secretary of State John F. Kerry say that there is no military solution to the Syrian crisis. That is true, but Moscow understands that diplomacy follows the facts on the ground, not the other way around. Russia and Iran are creating favorable facts. Once this military intervention has run its course, expect a peace proposal from Moscow that reflects its interests, including securing the Russian military base at Tartus.

    We should not forget that Moscow’s definition of success is not the same as ours. The Russians have shown a willingness to accept and even encourage the creation of so-called failed states and frozen conflicts from Georgia to Moldova to Ukraine. Why should Syria be any different? If Moscow’s “people” can govern only a part of the state but make it impossible for anyone else to govern the rest of it — so be it.

    And the well-being of the population is not the issue either. The Russian definition of success contains no element of concern for the dismal situation of the Syrian people. Refugees — that’s Europe’s problem. Greater sectarianism — well, it’s the Middle East! Populations attacked with barrel bombs and Assad’s chemicals, supposedly banned in the deal that Moscow itself negotiated — too bad!

    Putin’s move into Syria is old-fashioned great-power politics. (Yes, people do that in the 21st century.) There is a domestic benefit to him, but he is not externalizing his problems at home. Russian domestic and international policies have always been inextricably linked. Russia feels strong at home when it is strong abroad — this is Putin’s plea to his propagandized population — and the Russian people buy it, at least for now. Russia is a great power and derives its self-worth from that. What else is there? When is the last time you bought a Russian product that wasn’t petroleum? Moscow matters again in international politics, and Russian armed forces are on the move.

    Let us also realize that hectoring Putin about the bad choice he has made sounds weak. The last time the Russians regretted a foreign adventure was Afghanistan. But that didn’t happen until Ronald Reagan armed the Afghan mujahideen with Stinger missiles that started blowing Russian warplanes and helicopters out of the sky. Only then did an exhausted Soviet Union led by Mikhail Gorbachev, anxious to make accommodation with the West, decide that the Afghan adventure wasn’t worth it.

    So what can we do?

    First, we must reject the argument that Putin is simply reacting to world disorder. Putin, this argument would suggest, is just trying to hold together the Middle East state system in response to the chaos engendered by U.S. overreach in Iraq, Libya and beyond.

    Putin is indeed reacting to circumstances in the Middle East. He sees a vacuum created by our hesitancy to fully engage in places such as Libya and to stay the course in Iraq. But Putin as the defender of international stability? Don’t go there.

    Second, we have to create our own facts on the ground. No-fly zones and safe harbors for populations are not “half-baked” ideas. They worked before (protecting the Kurds for 12 years under Saddam Hussein’s reign of terror) and warrant serious consideration. We will continue to have refugees until people are safe. Moreover, providing robust support for Kurdish forces, Sunni tribes and what’s left of the Iraqi special forces is not “mumbo-jumbo.” It might just salvage our current, failing strategy. A serious commitment to these steps would also solidify our relationship with Turkey, which is reeling from the implications of Moscow’s intervention. In short, we must create a better military balance of power on the ground if we are to seek a political solution acceptable to us and to our allies.

    Third, we must “de-conflict” our military activities with those of the Russians. This is distasteful, and we should never have gotten to a place where the Russians are warning us to stay out of their way. But we must do all that we can to prevent an incident between us. Presumably, even Putin shares this concern.

    Finally, we need to see Putin for who he is. Stop saying that we want to better understand Russian motives. The Russians know their objective very well: Secure their interests in the Middle East by any means necessary. What’s not clear about that?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Godric on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:22 pm

    Monarchist wrote:

    Just look at those inbred wahabi faces. Shocked  And these are the "moderates"... Rolling Eyes

    they aren't any moderate sunni muslims in Syria .... the only moderates are the Syrian government as all people could practice their faith without fear of being killed .... America and Nato has a lot to answer for

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  SturmGuard on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:31 pm

    US tard wrote:"How can Vladimir Putin, with a sinking economy and a second-rate military, continually dictate the course of geopolitical events? Whether it’s in Ukraine or Syria, the Russian president seems always to have the upper hand."

    It is one thing to lie, it is altogether another thing, far worse and potentially dangerous, to believe in your own lies/propaganda, despite obvious reality checks.

    Example couldn't be clearer.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:41 pm

    Godric wrote:
    Monarchist wrote:

    Just look at those inbred wahabi faces. Shocked  And these are the "moderates"... Rolling Eyes

    they aren't any moderate sunni muslims in Syria .... the only moderates are the Syrian government as all people could practice their faith without fear of being killed .... America and Nato has a lot to answer for

    Let's see these Wahabi vermin protest when they're incinerated, dismembered corpses!!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:49 pm

    Regular wrote:
    zg18 wrote:

    Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo
    Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

    3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Solncepek on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:10 pm

    This video was posted before, but now from closer perspective...




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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:25 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    zg18 wrote:

    Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo
    Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

    3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

    We don't know which was their real intended targets to call it a "Failure".

    IF you look at the videos of All Russian bombings ,they do not seem to be targeting buildings but
    instead underground bunkers ,weapon storages ,radars ,communication antennas.. all those things that you will not find usually inside buildings.  I don't think the Russian airforce "Failed"
    its objective. .they train a lot precision bombing in Russia.. So i think is a bit extreme call
    a bombing a "Failure" if we don't know exactly what was Russia really targeting..

    The cross hair in the camera is not from the plane ,but apparently from drones monitoring
    the success of any bombing. It could be "fail" but it could be a direct hit too.. we don't really
    know until we understand first what really Russia was aiming.. as far i have seen is weapons storages, radars ,communications and command centers but also positions of terrorist leaders
    and western advisors exact locations.


    In more news.. Obama top advisors recommend US to give up with Syria.. Cool
    Hopefully the US elite will listen and do it to avoid a major war.

    High-level security advisors to US President Barack Obama recommended that the US should withdraw its military forces from Syria and abandon plans of Assad’s resignation, DWN wrote.

    http://sputniknews.com/us/20151009/1028289400/obama-advisors-recommend-us-withdrawal.html


    and this is only getting better by the day.. Cool


    Instead of helping Russia to crash Islamic militants in Syria, France is doing the opposite – helping al-Qaeda-linked terrorists, said Marine Le Pen, the leader of French National Front party.France Protects al-Qaeda Affiliates, Should Help Russia Instead


    http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151009/1028280555/france-should-help-russia-instead-supports-al-qaeda.html


    This is.. exactly what i was saying about Public opinion.. The more public opinion sides with Russia ,the more difficult will be for Americans to justify their war in Syria.. If American citizens
    today.. really cared about avoiding world war 3.. they will be protesting in all US cities by now
    in the millions demanding US to stop the illegal war in Syria .. Americans can organize and do thousands protest for GMO food.. but not for avoiding world war 3... Rolling Eyes






    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:26 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    zg18 wrote:

    Su-34 operations near Raqqa and Aleppo
    Not a pin point accuracy, but still good hits.

    3 out 4 hits failed. 250kg are not blockbusters but were used on rather big buildings with only one direct hit, certainly not the best thing. I have heared the KAB-1500Kr guided bombs are far better in accuracy.

    Well math says - more weight - higher accuracy, seems tho that fairly cheap laser guided KAB250 shall enter service in next 2-3 years.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:32 pm

    zorobabel wrote:Russian advisors, Al-Ghab Plain offensive:


    Source: https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/652492707785478144




    So Ivecos were delivered to SAA after all...




    Solncepek wrote:

    Awesome, BBQ time!!!  Twisted Evil




    Monarchist wrote:

    Just look at those inbred wahabi faces. Shocked  And these are the "moderates"... Rolling Eyes

    At 1:36 I saw Jesus!!! lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:36 pm


    Random article on those "crashed" cruise missiles in Iran:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3264574/Russia-s-cruise-missiles-seen-speeding-skies-way-destroy-ISIS-targets-Syrian-army-begins-major-attack-towns-held-terrorists.html#comments

    Best part is, 99% of comments can be summed up as: "GO RUSSIA russia "  or "Where is the evidence?". Some posters are comparing US politicians with Baghdad Bob while others are praising RT for quality reporting!!!


    Other 1% are desperate Ukrainian trolls squirming and screaming... Razz

    I newer thought I would see the day... Cool

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #3

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:34 pm


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