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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

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    ExBeobachter1987
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:47 pm

    Regular wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:If these Mi-24P are not upgraded models then they are also open to being taken down a lot easier too. So Russia should be using Ka-52 or Mi-28 that have all those gadgets.
    I think they are PM variant. Still they are inferior to Mi-35M. Why Russia doesn't bring it's cutting edge helicopters here, I don't know.

    Because they are sufficient for their tasks. The whole operation is expensive enough.

    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:50 pm

    Regular wrote:
    I think they are PM variant. Still they are inferior to Mi-35M. Why Russia doesn't bring it's cutting edge helicopters here, I don't know.

    perhaps there aren't many of those helicopters to begin with. So it can't be risked.

    Cucumber Khan
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:55 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:My question is why don't they engage them from a safe distance by using long range guidance rockets or the HMG like we've seen the Apache pilots do plenty of times in Iraq. Again, I'm not an expert on this but going in for low strafe runs completely exposes you to heavy calibre weapons on the ground. If they continue like this some idiot on the ground will get lucky with his RPG eventually or a .50cal gun.

    Missiles are expencive you know Very Happy Also main tool of Mi24 are unguided rockets S5 57mm, they require quite...intime relation with a target to be effective Very Happy

    The S-5 was found to be ineffective already during the afghan war, and replaced with the 80 mm S-8. Of the pictures I've seen the Mi-24s seems to be ordinary non-upgraded Mi-24P.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:07 pm

    Cucumber Khan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:My question is why don't they engage them from a safe distance by using long range guidance rockets or the HMG like we've seen the Apache pilots do plenty of times in Iraq. Again, I'm not an expert on this but going in for low strafe runs completely exposes you to heavy calibre weapons on the ground. If they continue like this some idiot on the ground will get lucky with his RPG eventually or a .50cal gun.

    Missiles are expencive you know Very Happy Also main tool of Mi24 are unguided rockets S5 57mm, they require quite...intime relation with a target to be effective Very Happy

    The S-5 was found to be ineffective already during the afghan war, and replaced with the 80 mm S-8. Of the pictures I've seen the Mi-24s seems to be ordinary non-upgraded Mi-24P.

    Its far from being "replaced", UB32 pods are still widely used, they however allow bigger target envelope since S8 and S12 were introduced. One will not put S12 load on Mi24 if his target is column of soft skin targets, you will load S5s on UB32 and you will double or triple your effect on column.

    There is actually whole field in math called optimisation which deals with issues like this, what weapon, what load, how many targets, whats the weight, cost, how accurate...


    medo
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  medo on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:12 pm

    Mi-24P is now good only for air base protection. Too vulnerable for various MANPADs those terrorists have. Russia should send a group of Mi-28N and Ka-52 helicopters for night operations and CAS for ground troops, day operations they could leave to Syrian air force. Mi-24P could only attack targets by Ataka missiles from the safe distance. Mi-28N and Ka-52 armed with 16 or 12 Ataka ATGMs could effectively take out many terrorist targets through the night, specially when terrorists move their troops around under the cover of night.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Dima on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:22 pm

    auslander wrote:Be prepared, gentlemen and lady, that it's only a matter of time before we lose some machines and boys. You take the King's schilling, sometimes you pay the King's price.
    Everyone here knows the risks of operation, but no one is begging for such incidents to happen so that they can say later on..."see I said so"...your post gives such a feel.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Dima on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:28 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Zhongqing wrote:
    auslander wrote:Be prepared, gentlemen and lady, that it's only a matter of time before we lose some machines and boys. You take the King's schilling, sometimes you pay the King's price.

    Maybe, maybe not, but who says these are Russian Mi-24s? Syria has 30+ in their inventory. These might be their Mi-24s, or Russian Mi-24s piloted by Syrians. Russia has been training Syrian pilots since the Cold War.

    Considering these are supporting the Syrian Army's Hama and Latakia offensives

    My comment was not in regards to this particular action per se, it is a statement of reality, sooner or later we will lose some of our boys. I don't like it one bit but it will happen. Even the most inept idiot with an automat or a sling shot can get 'lucky' once.
    It looks as if you badly want that to happen?  Shocked

    Would you be saying the same stuff if say the Ukranian nazi's are attacking your neighborhood (which is only a pipedream now, thanks to Russia) and your near and dear ones are in the direct area of action...will you be outright with the belief that someone will be lost?

    Project Canada
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Project Canada on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:39 pm

    Russia will soon suffer 'casualties' after Syria intervention: US defence secretary

    Is this a ****ing threat?? How do they know Russia will soon suffer casualties? unless they start arming the Free Syrian Terrorists with more sophisticated weapons and other covert support Rolling Eyes Maybe Russia should say the same about USIS suffering casualties soon in Pukraine

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:44 pm

    zg18 wrote:VKS Mi-24 support Syrian military offensive at Kafr Nabudah




    sepheronx wrote:If these Mi-24P are not upgraded models then they are also open to being taken down a lot easier too. So Russia should be using Ka-52 or Mi-28 that have all those gadgets.

    Neutrality wrote:My question is why don't they engage them from a safe distance by using long range guidance rockets or the HMG like we've seen the Apache pilots do plenty of times in Iraq. Again, I'm not an expert on this but going in for low strafe runs completely exposes you to heavy calibre weapons on the ground. If they continue like this some idiot on the ground will get lucky with his RPG eventually or a .50cal gun.

    Regular wrote:..............................
    I think they are PM variant. Still they are inferior to Mi-35M. Why Russia doesn't bring it's cutting edge helicopters here, I don't know.


    affraid  cry

    Guys, get real for a minute here!!!

    I do hope none of you really thinks that those are Russian helos?


    Just because some local pilots happen' to have pair of balls and a functioning brain does not automatically make them Russians. Russian helicopters are all in Latakia guarding the base. They will not be going anywhere. Period!

    SAA has been getting loads of fresh gear and those Hinds were probably among them. Pilots in question were probably getting training too from people who actually know how to use those things. For starters, they were told to fly in pairs or larger groups instead of alone like some morons.

    Also, what those two guys have been doing in that footage is called "ring of fire" tactics first used in WW2 by IL-2 pilots and later in by Sovs in Afghanistan. Although, you need 4 birds to do it by the book...

    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:49 pm

    Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:50 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Damn it. I wish they tested out a couple of Armatas there or a BMPT at least.

    Let me guess: you are one of those guys who play video-games with cheat codes? lol1 jocolor

    auslander
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  auslander on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:54 pm

    Dima wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Zhongqing wrote:
    auslander wrote:Be prepared, gentlemen and lady, that it's only a matter of time before we lose some machines and boys. You take the King's schilling, sometimes you pay the King's price.

    Maybe, maybe not, but who says these are Russian Mi-24s? Syria has 30+ in their inventory. These might be their Mi-24s, or Russian Mi-24s piloted by Syrians. Russia has been training Syrian pilots since the Cold War.

    Considering these are supporting the Syrian Army's Hama and Latakia offensives

    My comment was not in regards to this particular action per se, it is a statement of reality, sooner or later we will lose some of our boys. I don't like it one bit but it will happen. Even the most inept idiot with an automat or a sling shot can get 'lucky' once.
    It looks as if you badly want that to happen?  Shocked

    Would you be saying the same stuff if say the Ukranian nazi's are attacking your neighborhood (which is only a pipedream now, thanks to Russia) and your near and dear ones are in the direct area of action...will you be outright with the belief that someone will be lost?

    No, my statement was to calm some of the euphoria of the overwhelming successes our boys have had in the last week. It is a fact of life we will lose some boys in the war, that is the nature of war.

    zg18
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  zg18 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:54 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?




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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:55 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?


    Ahahahahahshahahahahahahshahahahahaha. Finnish media strikes again? Yeah, we already have a video of cruise missile leftovers in Syria as well as confirmed location of strikes with pictures of leftover.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Dima on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:59 pm

    ^^ PD, Thanks for the info.
    Its awkward to see the helos getting filmed from another sector without its knowledge....what if some other time instead of camera, its RPGs and other projectiles? After all crippling attack often comes from the least expected quarters.
    Recce prior to ops doesn't look foolproof...wish I'm completely wrong on that.

    In one of those anti-tank videos (though cant verify its origin, from current of earlier ops) one of the tank is getting shot from the rear, not to mention the attack on a unit with anti-tank missiles. Of the 33 casualities earlier mentioned, that strike probably might have caused the single largest?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  zg18 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:02 pm

    LOL I can`t believe how much butt hurt Americans have over Russian deployment to Syria , now Russians missiles are falling off skies lol1




    NationalRus
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  NationalRus on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:04 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:13 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Damn it. I wish they tested out a couple of Armatas there or a BMPT at least.

    Let me guess: you are one of those guys who play video-games with cheat codes? lol1 jocolor

    Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool

    ShahryarHedayatiSHBA
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  ShahryarHedayatiSHBA on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:18 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?

    It seems that a missile has hit the city of Takab . the people there described it as a UAV hurtling towards ground ....

    http://alef.ir/vdchvvnxm23nvid.tft2.html?300205



    Last edited by ShahryarHedayatiSHBA on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

    iraqidabab
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  iraqidabab on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:19 pm

    Gulf Arabs 'stepping up' arms supplies to Syrian rebels



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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:20 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Siempre_Leal wrote:RuAF Mi-24P vs Jihadist in Salma, Latakia

    Illustrates that in that countryside they can't really see them until they are overhead.



    Thats the reason why they fly low..  Wink

    About the dead pilot.. regardless of gear.. looks like slavic pilot.. Russia have been helping
    Syria for far longer time that we were told.. just that earlier it was in a very small number with
    volunteers. Russian Airforce now is not volunteers and have a full command center .
    IT could be a russian pilot with that was part of the Syrian Airforce since the conflict began.. is also worth to remember 100,000 Russians lived in Syria before the war began.. it could be understood. .the Syrian girls are really hot. Many Russians also living in Israel too..

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm

    ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?

    It seems that a missile has hit the city of Takab .... Security forces are moving in large numbers to the area....the local people described it as a UAV ....

    http://alef.ir/vdchvvnxm23nvid.tft2.html?300205

    I'm going to call BS on this until we get some real evidence. The West has been flying drones illegally in to Iranian air space for years now, there's even the famous case of the RQ-170 crash landing in to Iran. The U.S. is operating heavily in the neighboring country of Iraq, and they've been flying drones in Syrian territory without Syrian govt's permission as well.


    Last edited by magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm

    Dima wrote:
    auslander wrote:Be prepared, gentlemen and lady, that it's only a matter of time before we lose some machines and boys. You take the King's schilling, sometimes you pay the King's price.
    Everyone here knows the risks of operation, but no one is begging for such incidents to happen so that they can say later on..."see I said so"...your post gives such a feel.

    It most certainly does not!!!

    He is saying what a lot of us here think, fear and pray it won't happen'.

    We all hope that everything will be OK but all it takes is one stupid goose or a duck in the jet engine and you have a crashed aircraft. This is dangerous work by definition.


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

    zg18
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  zg18 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:27 pm

    ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?

    It seems that a missile has hit the city of Takab .... Security forces are moving in large numbers to the area....the local people described it as a UAV ....

    http://alef.ir/vdchvvnxm23nvid.tft2.html?300205

    Who knows what is going on here , perhaps someone lost another asset like RQ-170 over Iran. After all , missile launch from Caspian sea was bit surprising and there is lack of intelligence.

    FARS News rejected US claim.

    magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm going to call BS on this until we get some real evidence. The West has been flying drones illegally in to Iranian air space for years now, there's even the famous case of the RQ-170 crash landing in to Iran. The U.S. is operating heavily in the neighboring country of Iraq, and they've been flying drones in Syrian territory without Syrian govt's permission as well.

    My hunch as well , Americans were certainly caught off guard and doing everything right now to scramble for intelligence & info.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #2

    Post  Kimppis on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:28 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Finnish media says that the CIA has information that the Russian missiles fired from Caspian sea hit Iranian territory instead of Syria. Is this complete bogus or what?

    Link? What is the source? Finnish media always just copy-pastes articles from Anglo-American media (yeah, that shouldn't surprise anyone). Any similar stories on 'Murican MSM atm?

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