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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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    william.boutros
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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  william.boutros on Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:31 am

    marat wrote:
    william.boutros wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    marat wrote:Could somebody post some updated information about SU-100 Superjet production; how many of those aircrafts are produced?

    And is Su 130 project still alive?

    As of today, 18 Superjets produced this year.

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/71914/

    Well, the plane didn't live up to its expectations and is not part of a line yet in exception of the long range version.
    Indonesia crash, sanctions and lack of good support all hampered the effort to promote the plane in the west.


    Unfortunatelly i must agree with you. Plane is in production for quite long time but never reached planed rate of 60-70 per year. Competition in that category now is even bigger with Japan and China in game.
    I hope that better days are in front of it, but i am not opptimist any longer. Production will be live and numbers will raise but it will  not be big comercial succes.

    They need to market the plane more aggressively. Create a support and maintenance network for the plane in countries willing to purchase. They need to further develop new variants of the plane and improve its economy and reliability. All that would not be wasted as you will be building your customer, technological and support base for the entire aviation sector.
    It may not be a bad idea to combine military related support facilities for helicopters and jets in foreign countries with civilian ones to improve service in both areas.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:54 pm

    First tests of Russia's new MS-21 aircraft planned by end of 2016 — minister

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/economy/847623


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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:36 pm

    Aeroflot signed a firm contract with SCA to buy another 20 aircraft SSJ-100

    http://vpk-news.ru/news/28772


    This was announced by CEO Vitaly Savelyev airlines at a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Savelyev said that today the park of "Aeroflot" has 168 aircraft, including 26 SSJ-100. "For probably the next four or five months, we received another four cars, and will have 30 cars - this is a contract that we have already been concluded, - said V. Saveliev. - We are now in the stage of signing an agreement with SCA for another 20 cars "Sukhoi Superjet". Thus, the "Sukhoi Superjet" will be in the amount of 50 cars represented in our park, "- said Savelyev, who was quoted by Interfax-AVN.

    Memorandum of Intent on the twenty SSJ-100 "Aeroflot" and SCA signed in January last year, originally planned to sign a firm contract until the end of 2015

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:52 pm

    william.boutros wrote:
    marat wrote:
    william.boutros wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    marat wrote:Could somebody post some updated information about SU-100 Superjet production; how many of those aircrafts are produced?

    And is Su 130 project still alive?

    As of today, 18 Superjets produced this year.

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/71914/

    Well, the plane didn't live up to its expectations and is not part of a line yet in exception of the long range version.
    Indonesia crash, sanctions and lack of good support all hampered the effort to promote the plane in the west.


    Unfortunatelly i must agree with you. Plane is in production for quite long time but never reached planed rate of 60-70 per year. Competition in that category now is even bigger with Japan and China in game.
    I hope that better days are in front of it, but i am not opptimist any longer. Production will be live and numbers will raise but it will  not be big comercial succes.

    They need to market the plane more aggressively.  Create a support and maintenance network for the plane in countries willing to purchase. They need to further develop new variants of the plane and improve its economy and reliability. All that would not be wasted as you will be building your customer, technological and support base for the entire aviation sector.
    It may not be a bad idea to combine military related support facilities for helicopters and jets in foreign countries with civilian ones to improve service in both areas.

    william.boutros wrote:
    marat wrote:
    william.boutros wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    marat wrote:Could somebody post some updated information about SU-100 Superjet production; how many of those aircrafts are produced?

    And is Su 130 project still alive?

    As of today, 18 Superjets produced this year.

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/71914/

    Well, the plane didn't live up to its expectations and is not part of a line yet in exception of the long range version.
    Indonesia crash, sanctions and lack of good support all hampered the effort to promote the plane in the west.


    Unfortunatelly i must agree with you. Plane is in production for quite long time but never reached planed rate of 60-70 per year. Competition in that category now is even bigger with Japan and China in game.
    I hope that better days are in front of it, but i am not opptimist any longer. Production will be live and numbers will raise but it will  not be big comercial succes.

    They need to market the plane more aggressively.  Create a support and maintenance network for the plane in countries willing to purchase. They need to further develop new variants of the plane and improve its economy and reliability. All that would not be wasted as you will be building your customer, technological and support base for the entire aviation sector.
    It may not be a bad idea to combine military related support facilities for helicopters and jets in foreign countries with civilian ones to improve service in both areas.

    I think they have done pretty much everything they reasonably could have. One of the reasons the project used so many western suppliers, and the whole thing packaged up in the Alenia joint venture was to develop a decent support and marketing presence in western markets, but even then you have cut-throat competition, and are still facing the hurdle that most large airlines have long-standing arrangements with particular manufacturers for engineering support and pilot training, and get very steep discounts on new orders in return for that loyalty. Also, it makes sense for an airline to try to source all aircraft from the same manufacturer, and ideally the same family. Combine that with buying planes being the biggest and most critical financial commitment an airline makes, and asking them to do that from a brand only previously associated with military and small aircraft, and it's a difficult sell.

    Easy as it is to criticise from a distance, as new aircraft to rejuvenate the industry in Russia, I would have gone with a modern turboprop family, with 30, 50, 70 and 90 seat options, plus combi and cargo variants around common components (maybe using the IL-114 as a template). Russia has a massive legacy of very old regional turboprops that are life expired, and at the time the SJ was first discussed there was little competition. Since then the Chinese have entered the fray, but their offering (like the Bombadier Q400) is only offered in the 70-80 seat size range. Hopefully the revived IL-114 might start UAC thinking in that direction, but the 114 really needs to be expanded (and shrunk!) to be a true family of aircraft, not a standalone "take it or leave it" offering.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:14 pm

    Note the beautiful take-off of Tu-204


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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:28 pm

    UEC is preparing for the establishment of the engine with a thrust of up to 35 tons

    http://www.ato.ru/content/odk-gotovitsya-k-sozdaniyu-dvigatelya-s-tyagoy-do-35-tonn


    United Engine Corporation (UEC) is preparing for the creation of high-thrust turbofan engines for advanced civil aircraft. As told at the last in the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM) Conference "Aero Engines of XXI Century" Deputy General Designer of the corporation Victor Belousov, to this end, a member of the JDC Perm company "" OAO is studying the possibility of increasing the gas generator of the new PD-14 engine.

    PD-14 with a thrust of 14 tons is designed for Russia's new single-aisle aircraft MS-21. In late October began its flight tests on a flying laboratory IL-76LL.

    According to the chief designer of the engine family of PD in the company "" OAO Igor Maximov, in the line of big motors base is supposed to make the PD-35 with a thrust of 35 tons. For the new plant is expected to scale gasifier from the PD-14 with the addition of an extra step at the outlet of the high pressure compressor . As a result, the number of compressor stages and turbine PD-35 will be 9 + 2, the diameter of the inlet to the compressor will rise to 815 mm compared to 582 mm for PD-14. It is assumed that the diameter of the fan motor will make a new 3100 mm, length of the engine - more than 8 m, weight - about 8 tons.

    On the basis of the PD-35 will be developed with a thrust power plants 28 (PD-28) and 24 m (PD-24). The first two engines planned to offer two options and chetyrehdvigatelnyh promising widebody long-haul aircraft, the last - to haul widebody aircraft and long-term heavy military transport aircraft, it was noted in the presentation of the representative of the "" OAO.

    Possible applications of the new engine could be a wide-body aircraft, which are jointly developing the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and the Chinese corporation COMAC. It is expected that the aircraft seating capacity up to 280 people. C929 with the working title will make its first flight in 2021 and will be commissioned in 2025

    Victor Belousov said that similar work on the high-thrust engines lead to other enterprises of the holding - in Samara company "Kuznetsov". It considered the possibility of the development of power plants thrust up to 35 tonnes on the basis of the gas generator of the turbojet engine NK-32, which is now installed at strategic bombers Tu-160. According to Belousov, both options are considered as a promising power unit with direct drive and driven through the gearbox.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:35 pm

    "Ilyushin" develop a passenger version of the Il-96-400T
    January 13, 2016 Maxim Pyadushkin

    http://www.ato.ru/content/ilyushin-razrabotaet-passazhirskuyu-versiyu-il-96-400t


    The company "Ilyushin" plans to develop a new wide-body passenger modification of the Il-96. "We go out with a proposal to launch the initiative on the basis of the Il-96-400 passenger aircraft," - said the January 13 General Director Sergey Velmozhkin.

    The original version of Il-96-400T designed as a cargo version of the basic passenger version of IL-96-300 is distinguished by its extended 9.6 m fuselage, an increase of 20 tonnes maximum take-off weight (270 tons) and more powerful engines PS-90A1.

    It was built four such aircraft, three of which were operated until 2013 the airline "Polet" has ceased its activities. Two of the existing board of this type is converted to an air control point Il-96-400VPU first ready. Two more aircraft will be converted into tankers Il-96-400TZ.

    According Velmozhkina, the contract for this work with the Ministry of Defence has already been signed. "But the question is still at the stage of presentation of evidence that IL-96 can be used as a tanker," - he explained.

    For the passenger version, some components of the IL-96-400 will be upgraded, but the aircraft to maintain the current PS-90 engines. At the same time discusses the use of this modification of the new PD-14 engine, which is designed for single-aisle aircraft MS-21.

    Representatives of "Ilyushin" say the fuel efficiency that four-engine plane will be at the western analogues. Make of IL-96 twin-engine car will be if Russia will be developed by the engine thrust of 32-35 tons, the company stressed.

    As previously stated by representatives of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in the development plans of the family PD-14 is the creation of a traction engine, but the timing of its development has not yet been determined.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:53 pm

    Austin wrote:"Ilyushin" develop a passenger version of the Il-96-400T
    January 13, 2016 Maxim Pyadushkin

    http://www.ato.ru/content/ilyushin-razrabotaet-passazhirskuyu-versiyu-il-96-400t


    The company "Ilyushin" plans to develop a new wide-body passenger modification of the Il-96. "We go out with a proposal to launch the initiative on the basis of the Il-96-400 passenger aircraft," - said the January 13 General Director Sergey Velmozhkin.

    The original version of Il-96-400T designed as a cargo version of the basic passenger version of IL-96-300 is distinguished by its extended 9.6 m fuselage, an increase of 20 tonnes maximum take-off weight (270 tons) and more powerful engines PS-90A1.

    It was built four such aircraft, three of which were operated until 2013 the airline "Polet" has ceased its activities. Two of the existing board of this type is converted to an air control point Il-96-400VPU first ready. Two more aircraft will be converted into tankers Il-96-400TZ.

    According Velmozhkina, the contract for this work with the Ministry of Defence has already been signed. "But the question is still at the stage of presentation of evidence that IL-96 can be used as a tanker," - he explained.

    For the passenger version, some components of the IL-96-400 will be upgraded, but the aircraft to maintain the current PS-90 engines. At the same time discusses the use of this modification of the new PD-14 engine, which is designed for single-aisle aircraft MS-21.

    Representatives of "Ilyushin" say the fuel efficiency that four-engine plane will be at the western analogues. Make of IL-96 twin-engine car will be if Russia will be developed by the engine thrust of 32-35 tons, the company stressed.

    As previously stated by representatives of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in the development plans of the family PD-14 is the creation of a traction engine, but the timing of its development has not yet been determined.

    Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:19 pm

    I sincerely hope this project comes to fruition, as the IL-96 really deserves it's day in the sun. It is a decent design cursed by the most unfortunate timing imaginable (launching during the midst of the Soviet collapse).

    Using the stretched version would greatly improve it's operating economics, and hopefully the "upgrading" for the civil passenger variant will include cockpit and cabin modifications to bring it in-line in with the MS-21 in terms of control familiarity and cabin ambiance, to facilitate crew training and passenger experience.

    One thing that does concern me is switching back to PS-90A engines. Given this project is going to take a while to come through, I think it would be wise to wait until the PD-18R engine is ready and launch with that from the outset, rather than "taint" the perception of the new model with an old engine - otherwise we are right back with the Ilyushin IL-86 again.

    I really, really hope this porject comes through though. I'd love to see a large new fleet of IL-96s with Aeroflot, Rossiya, Cubana and hopefully other new customers - best of luck to UAC. Let's make this one happen cheers

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:47 pm

    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:10 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Not as much as you'd think. The per seat fuel-burn difference between A330 and A340 is marginal at best. The A340 was doing fine until the late 00s sudden oil price spike drove airlines into panic mode (interesting article on it here. Prior to that even low-cost airlines like Air Asia X were deploying them. The real nail in the coffin for the A340 wasn't the B777 or A330, but simply that a new generation sucessor (A380 and A350) was in the making.

    That said, I doubt the IL-96 will be a global player. The low purchase price and new engines will mean it makes some financial sense if it comes with the PD-18D, which combined with the threat of sanctions from western manufacturers, mean it might do OK in Russia and other countries at risk of similar sanctions (fingers crossed!). And I do think it's important that it is out there in the market to provide that alternative, but at the end of the day, as I said about the Sukhoi, the same issues are at play - fears about after-sales support services, parts availability and long term contracts with rival manufacturers which will make major success in western markets difficult.

    Success is relative though, if Ilyushin manage to shift 100 new IL-96s to civil aviation, then it's pretty poor by Airbus or Boeing sales figures, but it'd be a good showing for the IL-96, and could serve as good experience in serial production of a modern widebody for future projects, ifAviadvigatel get round to making a high-bypass turbofan in the 270kn range.


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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:27 am

    It was mentioned long before either you two joined the forums but essentially boeing lobbied aeroflot to dump the Il-96 in favor of the 747 and such.  There is documentation somewhere on this forums about how the take off costs of il-96 was actually less than that of the airbus jet that replaced it.  Even maintenance cost too.  But of course, they didnt have a powerful lobby.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:53 am

    sepheronx wrote:It was mentioned long before either you two joined the forums but essentially boeing lobbied aeroflot to dump the Il-96 in favor of the 747 and such.  There is documentation somewhere on this forums about how the take off costs of il-96 was actually less than that of the airbus jet that replaced it.  Even maintenance cost too.  But of course, they didnt have a powerful lobby.

    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    That's all you need to know about doing business with those sorts of "organisations".
    The sooner an upgraded version of the IL-96, with modern engines and avionics that have nothing to do with such "organisations" comes into being, the better. You can't have strategic industries and products that are held hostage to such shenanigans. It's basically extortion and blackmail.

    It's a salutary lesson on why you can't rely on such "partners", and you should always have your own products or analogues to replace any international "cooperation" to prevent such games from happening again. Personally, I would place a special tax on products from such companies, which could be passed on to local competitors/producers. It's baffling that some actually thought Boeing would allow a level, fair playing field...they have a long history of such tactics in other regions too.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:17 pm

    Yep, that's basically what i meant by long-term agreements - a grey mix of legitimate contracts (steep discounts on purchases in return for repeat custom and the support contract) and the shady - lobbying, arm twisting, using friendly government and financial institutions to push you to the front. Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    Will definitely be following this with interest.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:02 pm

    RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

    There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:02 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

    There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.

    The SSJ is a good drop in replacement for the BAe 146, and is more flexible in almost every way. After the A318, it's the plane with the longest range capable of taking out at LCY with a decent number of passengers, but at much lower price and the range sacrifice is minimal. CityJet have made a sensible buy, but it's a shame more western airlines haven't done likewise. CityFlyer (British Airways operation out of LCY) replaced their entire fleet of 146s a few years back, and went with Embraer E-jets, which they now operate exclusively - not the knock the Embraer ERJs and E-jets - having flown on them a lot, I have great respect for their reliability and comfort. The Brazilians know how to make good planes, no doubt about it.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:22 am

    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

    Indeed, which is why I called it like this in another sentence of that post:
    wilhelm wrote: It's basically extortion and blackmail.

    Boeing has a long, well known history of this type of behaviour.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:12 am

    I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
    Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

    EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:42 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:58 pm

    It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:31 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

    Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

    Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.


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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:27 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:14 am

    "Russian airframer Irkut has taken delivery of the first composite wing panel for the MC-21 single-aisle twinjet. The cover panel for the starboard wing has been developed by AeroKompozit using vacuum infusion and carbon lay-up processes. AeroKompozit is completing work on similar panels for the port wing, says Irkut.

    Irkut says it is currently installing various systems in the assembled fuselage of the initial MC-21 airframe. First flight of the MC-21 is due to take place before the end of this year. The jet will be powered by Pratt & Whitney PW1400G or Aviadvigatel PD-14 engines."




    Sources: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/irkut-receives-first-mc-21-composite-wing-cover-420951/ and UAC Russia

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:17 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.

    To economically operate wide body liner they would probably need to build over 200 as it shares very little parts with other platforms. Its easier to operate 100 Airbus320Neo or whatever version as there are 400-500 of basically same design around the world flying. But if they make multiple versions as there are rumons, VIP transport for Kremlin, then tanker for the Air Force, liners for Aeroflot...maybe commercial transports? Then numbers could rise quite alot.

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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