Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Syrian Air Defence Force

    Share
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Sun May 12, 2013 6:19 pm

    NickM wrote:
    MEADS will replace Patriot missiles in the United States, the older Hawk system in Germany, and Italy’s Nike Hercules missiles . The system will incorporate its own 3-radar set, along with networked communications for use as either a stand-alone system, or a component of larger air defense clusters that include other missiles.Two 360-degree, Multifunction Fire Control Radars (MFCR). The X-band MFCR employs active phased array technology, using transmit/receive modules developed in Germany. It also incorporates advanced identification-friend-or-foe (IFF) sensors with improved capabilities.

    It's a generation ahead of anything that Russia can field in the near future . Even the S 500 is no match for it .

    MEADS is purely made to correct mistakes made on Patriot system and if it ever gets to production phase if will still be well behind

    even a older S-300 version.

    Besides deal with it, US nor Europe has nothing like Russian air defense and their airspace if full of holes with undefended city,

    industrial areas, military objects etc. They could easily get bombed without US/EU even being aware of it.

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 771
    Points : 948
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun May 12, 2013 7:38 pm



    Is the domestic Russian market big enough to justify BIG investments in the semiconductor sector ? NO .

    Does Russia have it's own customised alternative to Microsoft WINDOWS ? NO .

    Once the USSR ceased to exist, Russia's human resource limitations began to show up in a big way & that's why today it is importing UAVs from Israel & LPDs from France. Acquiring industrial manufacturing capabilities is the very easy part; possessing the scientific manpower & skilled/experienced human resources required for business innovations is an entirely different challenge

    Therefore in these areas Russia today is decades behind even Israel, leave alone the West.



    Is evident that your same mindset is effectively arranged around western vision of technological relevant achievements.

    US has always stressed on information-related technology and on the electronic components necessary for its processing (above all for its civil commercial potential among its European "Allies-Colony) ; here this approach has been always considered near to irrelevant under a strict Hard Scientific evolution's point of view.

    The same fact that you ask for a domestic corresponding of....... Window Laughing Laughing speak volume on the degree of laughable, self-referential, intellectual corruption now so common in western public opinion; this was perfectly clear already from your previous "fetishist" question on "AESA radar" for Su-24 , when you was obviously also unaware that no western bomber too has ever had any AESA radar mounted !! Razz Razz


    Exactly how many Nobel Prizes in physical sciences or applied mathematics has either the USSR or Russia won to date?

    Hope you have realized that in such scientific matters Russia's performance is only better than Asian countries like China , India and Africa .




    Ohh...Another self-revealing assertion.

    In a word : Nobel is a WESTERN prize, clear ?

    It was mostly monopolized by European winners before the WWII and mostly monopolized by US winners in the Cold War (just following the sudden shift of balance of influence, in West world, toward USA in the after-war Wink ); in substance it was one of the several means for propagandistic image's self-promotion in Cold War - including the few prizes conceded for self-validation to scientists of the enemy block Wink -

    I don't know what place occupy Nobel prize in your mind ,but here it was then ,and it is still today, considered no more no less than a Western prize .....on which moreover circulate a lot of jokes in domestic Institutes Razz .

    In general when a Soviet scientist ,in Cold War (or a Russian one today) was awarded this prize, it was exclusively for achievements capable to completely revolutionize a sector and only after that its publications was translated and "adopted" in the West and/or when the scientist in question had begun to collaborate with western scientific Institutes

    The latest example of that comical habit (perfectly justifying the domestic jokes circulating on this western prize ) is the Nobel awarded to Андрей К. Гейм and Константи́н С. Новосёлов for the synthesis of the revolutionary Graphene.

    You could bet, without any risk, that the same achievements and publications ,if both of them would have remained theirs life at MIPT , wouldn't have earned for any of them not even a nominate for Nobel prize Laughing Laughing

    I can assure you that, with some exceptions, publications of majority of western "controlled" winners of this prize, if was published in domestic Academic journals, wouldn’t have gained for the author or its Institute not even only the mention for the Lenin or State prize !! Razz


    MEADS will replace Patriot missiles in the United States, the older Hawk system in Germany, and Italy’s Nike Hercules missiles .

    You are evidently very badly informed Rolling Eyes


    It's a generation ahead of anything that Russia can field in the near future . Even the S 500 is no match for it .



    S-500 ?? Laughing Laughing Laughing

    If it will survive (and i will not bet on it), it will struggle to reach performances of early versions of C-300 Laughing Laughing



    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 12, 2013 9:50 pm

    "It's a generation ahead of anything that Russia can field in the near future . Even the S 500 is no match for it ."

    Seriously, why do people even respond to this guy?
    Fanboy much?
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 1973
    Points : 2138
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon May 13, 2013 10:00 am

    Rare pics of Syrian Pantsir-S1



    ___________________________________

    Original Source (including pics of T-72 and BMP-2): Arrow http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/625377.html
    ___________________________________
    avatar
    NickM

    Posts : 181
    Points : 128
    Join date : 2012-11-09
    Location : NYC,USA / Essex,UK

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  NickM on Mon May 13, 2013 8:44 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:Is evident that your same mindset is effectively arranged around western vision of technological relevant achievements.

    US has always stressed on information-related technology and on the electronic components necessary for its processing (above all for its civil commercial potential among its European "Allies-Colony) ; here this approach has been always considered near to irrelevant under a strict Hard Scientific evolution's point of view


    Do you realize that much of your outburst is devoid of any evidence ? What's your definition of "Hard Scientific evolution" . Such patronizing is self defeating . For the record even the civilian jets that Russia makes are a generation behind Airbus & Boeing . Your jets are more renowned for their crashes .


    Mindstorm wrote:In general when a Soviet scientist ,in Cold War (or a Russian one today) was awarded this prize, it was exclusively for achievements capable to completely revolutionize a sector and only after that its publications was translated and "adopted" in the West and/or when the scientist in question had begun to collaborate with western scientific Institutes


    And which area have Soviet scientists completely revolutionized ? I have witnessed experiments here where trojans have been inserted into EW systems of adversaries , IP addresses of individuals have been remotely flipped and even manipulated ( this is the very basic expected from us employees) and utilities brought to a standstill . And we did not just do it only in some 3rd world nations like India , China , Iran etc .

    Mindstorm wrote:
    S-500 ?? Laughing Laughing Laughing

    If it will survive (and i will not bet on it), it will struggle to reach performances of early versions of C-300 Laughing Laughing

    You gotta be kidding me . Can I remind you that even the targeting pods on the SU 35 are from Thales . And you talk about the S 300 being more advanced than the MEADS ? Again you do not provide any information to back your assertions , just simple publicity of your products.

    Cyberspec wrote:Rare pics of Syrian Pantsir-S1

    That's my point . Syria had these and yet were unable to take out the Israeli F 16s . Clearly proves that the Pantsir is in effective against aircrafts with great EW systems like the F 16.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  TR1 on Mon May 13, 2013 9:11 pm

    "And you talk about the S 300 being more advanced than the MEADS ? Again you do not provide any information to back your assertions , just simple publicity of your products. "

    That's rich, because not only have you demonstrated an utter lack of knowledge about the S-300 and S-400, but while having no factual basis to make a statement about the S-500, assert it cannot match the MEADS (which, by the way, is pedestrian in may ways by Russian starndards).

    Regarding Pantsir, are you really that dumb? We know the answer is yes, but let's spell it out for you.

    1.) Pantsir is SHORAD. If there were no Pantsirs within close range of the Israeli strike, they can't do anything.
    2.) Syria doesn't have many Pantsirs.
    3.) Do you have any notion of how AD networks function?

    Keep on clowning.
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 1973
    Points : 2138
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon May 20, 2013 12:44 pm

    TR1 wrote:A few S-300 batteries won't make Syria invincible.

    Nobody said they would be invincible, but it would complicate calculations for any foreign aggressor. They already have a decent air defence. Otherwise you would've seen no fly zones a long time ago...

    Anyway, the news from the ground is that "Free" Army is getting hammered. Soon they might be left with only their northern enclaves along the Turkish border...no wonder diplomacy is popular once again
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  TR1 on Mon May 20, 2013 10:15 pm

    They would have a decent AD system IF the country was not torn apart by civil war.
    Half the countryside is out of government control- wich means massive AD coverage holes in terms of SAMs and critically radars.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:27 pm

    Interfax military reports that Syrian AD troops are in Russia - you must pay to open link

    Story is interesting and I expect to popup somewhere else.

    Syrian air defense officers being trained in Russia - source
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1390
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:04 pm

    Viktor wrote:Interfax military reports that Syrian AD troops are in Russia - you must pay to open link

    Story is interesting and I expect to popup somewhere else.

    Syrian air defense officers being trained in Russia - source
    What source, where's the link??
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:16 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:What source, where's the link??

    "Interfax military"

    http://www.militarynews.ru/EMAIN.ASP
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:24 am

    Nice article among many others lately about the issue
    S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:30 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nice article among many others lately about the issue
    S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too

    I love how the comment is a jewish guy saying that it is easy to do EW against the system. Of course they like to dream about it, even when in the article, they explain it is really hard to combat such a system with EW.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:51 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I love how the comment is a jewish guy saying that it is easy to do EW against the system.   Of course they like to dream about it, even when in the article, they explain it is really hard to combat such a system with EW.

    It would be bad for their moral if the country leadership said the only thing they can do is cry or take losses.
    avatar
    gaurav

    Posts : 357
    Points : 353
    Join date : 2013-02-19
    Age : 37
    Location : Blr

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  gaurav on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:35 pm

    Dont want to comment on this but forced too.

    This article written by a typical Indian  mostly a new entry  to a payed  gov job thinking great about his career.

    Just see how he cunningly shifts and balances his position between Israel and Russian weapons.
    Thinks he has  agreat knowledge of Israel and Russian tactics.

    RAIN OF ISRAELI AIR ATTACKS IN 2013 (Article states).. Oh really I did not know that ..Razz 

    but oh but Israel has 300 f-16 aircrafts (operational)..
    why only 3 -4 attacks in  ( in space of 6 months).. My GOD that is too much of a time..
    Every attack  approx 10 jets used as per intelligence reports..
    THE ARTICLE DOES NOT EXPLAIN THIS PHENOMENON..Razz 

    why these selective and less jets used /attack.. there was no S-300 IN Syria..  during the first 6 months of the year..
    There should have been 1000 air attacks not 3 attacks in past 6 months ..if Israel had to show its air power dominance invincibility..
    Israel should have launched a BLITZKREIG on Syria.. but what we see few Israel aircraft snucking from behind the mountains and attacking empty buildings in Damascus .. hilarious..Mad 

    This part very quietly , cunningly OMITTED in the article..
    The truth is that  S-300 is still not operational in Syria.. and Israel should have launched a series of BLITZKRIEG air bombing campaign against Damascus and military sites.. Twisted Evil 

    Infact what Israel has shown is the complete impotence of IAF AIR FORCE technology in the face of ISOLATED SYRIAN ultra short range pantysir mobile positions

    THIS TRUTH IS COMPLETELY JUNKED FROM THE ARTICLED as something ALIEN ..


    Just compare with Iraq where approx 2000 aircraft continuously bomb the ground targets for many days altogether..Rolling Eyes 
    But what we see of Israel attacks is just  10 min -20 min stay inside Syria airspace, hardly couple of air -surface dud missile launches  and those aircraft running from the Damascus airspace like some bull crap .. or some engine flame  out:roll:
    or to really tell the truth  a pantsyir automated munition launched and chasing their AR@#.. !Cool  

    Everything omitted in the article as if this is something out of the world..

    Israel is fact is just using these selective  attack profiles with no military meaning whatsoever..just to provoke SAA and invite a response and divert SAA from their crushing tactics against rebels..
    but SAA is clever enough to understand the vile intentions of ISraeli airforce and not commit itself to any counter strike which would be a blunder on part of Syria.

    Not even a inch of reality of Israeli Air force (farce) impotence reflected in this article can I ask why Rolling Eyes 


    This article is now copied in all U.S websites as some leading article in the world of air defense..!!! what nonsense..  

    But the world is like that only so no complaints from my side.. he he he  cheers
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1390
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:23 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nice article among many others lately about the issue
    S-300: NATO’s nightmare and perhaps Russia’s too
    Hmmm...gaurav correct on the pantirs isolation and the part about "Middle East maneuvers" from Strategy Page sound like something out of F-16.net, overall a good try at least.Cool 
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 pm

    @gurav

    There are no objective articles in the net as no journalist is military expert and no military expert knows everything or is totally unbiased when writing articles.

    But I like this article because despite some inaccuracies (and US and Israel could be equally pissed if not even more on this) it puts accent on.

    - Why S-300 is deadly
    - Deadlines of Russian SAM in general
    - Importance of training
    - Rightly sees that besides SU only Vietnam had extensive and functional SAM network
    avatar
    gaurav

    Posts : 357
    Points : 353
    Join date : 2013-02-19
    Age : 37
    Location : Blr

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  gaurav on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:01 pm


    the part about "Middle East maneuvers" from Strategy Page sound like something out of F-16.net, overall a good try at least.

    Yes it seems to be F-16.net philosophy.
    The philosophy states that If ISRAel wants then it
    can DESTRoY WHOLE batteries of S-300 "now deployed in Syria"..in Damsacus region..

    Just see the direction of this article ..
    that superiority of Israeli F-16 is indisputable .. then it shifts the balance
    to the Syrian side saiying that Russia will continue to supply additional
    Batteries of S-300 if Israel destroys Syrian S-300..

    In effect what he is concluding is that the Syria S-300 are no match to
    well trained F-16 pilots and Electronic Warfare , dummy targets , noise injection that Israel will deploy against Syria.. S-300 BATTERIES..

    I mean what non sense is this..

    Why S-300 is deadly
    Point taken.

    Deadlines of Russian SAM in general
    Correct .Point taken
    I think you are stating the Speed of s-300 munition mach 7.. to destroy targets
    above Israeli -Telaviv airspace.

    Importance of training
    Absolutely correct.


    Rightly sees that besides SU only Vietnam had extensive and functional SAM network
    Thats one of the only points that I liked in the article.
    Vietnam has recently upgraded its batteries to fire very high speed long range munitions..
    ..DEEP INSIDE CHINESE TERRITORY.. that is SOME REEL AIR defense force I guess.. thumbsup 

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 771
    Points : 948
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:41 pm

    This is a realistic analysis of the capabilities of Syrian air defense network against a western attack publicly available.


    http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html


    How i had explained already a pair of years ago, the percentage of up-to date air defense systems in Syrian network in very low and the bulk of that small percentage is composed mostly by point defense systems.

    At this is necessary to add : T

    - The obsolescence of command and control nodes of IAD
    - Very poor to not-existent very long range early warning systems
    - Antediluvian EW assets
    - Total absence of any space based sensor
    - Scarce cability to combine with Air Forces for anti-decoy/ambush missions
    - Wide presence of enemy ground forces (FSA operatives) capable to provide crucial live-time humint on the position of the most important elements of Syrian PVO.


    In spite of all what said, those very few , insulated, up-to date SAM systems in Syria represent still deadly menaces for NATO hypothetical intruders to the point that very likely the entire attention of NATO planners in those hours in concentrated in track the position of those few high mobile batteries (through mostly HUMINT on the field and the aid of space based  sensor surveillance for data matching).

    The best option for Syrian planners in those hours is to force transporter vehicles /APCs / transloaders vehicles and  even civilian heavy vehicles of the right size to enter ,with those SAM systems, under covered places (such as hangars ,tunnels, even underground civil parking ) and arrange them with extensive coverage with wood/metal "skeleton" sustainers (included the original SAM systems) so to render impossible to categorize their precise layout from space based sensor and very difficult to do also for far observer on the ground ,

    Mixing those groups and maintaining high the mobility will render, even only planning for NATO's generals hundreds of times more difficult and force them at risk direct intrusions of Syrian airspace.

    In general IAD work better when offensive element of the armed forces of the Nation it defend can selectively choose and obliterate enemy air-bases , one after the other with overwhelming attacks (in a progressive action of degradation of enemy Air Force capabilities)  or,anyhow, force enemy Air Force at engage forcibly some elements of those offensive forces ,such as cruise missile launchers, ballistic missile launchers , MLRS or advancing ground forces etc...etc...to avoid to be obliterated.

    At example in Yom Kippur war the combination of the presence, for the first time in the Middle East military history, of relatively up-to-date (even if downgraded export models) of SAM systems and of the up-delineated situation (advancing ground forces menacing to destroy IAF's airbases in a matter of hours if capable to achieve a breakthrough) generated truly hindering losses among IAF aircraft "forced" at attack the enemy forces without getting months or even years to prepare for the mission.


    What just said is the rational behind international treaty such as MTCR; without those treaties could have been Syrian and Iranian generals, not NATO ones with the limited number of cruise missiles present on theirs ships, at debate in those hours in what airbase full of aircraft , what ship, what radar installation, what C4 base etc... to selectively destroy ,before move the launchers recharge and repeat all under cover of theirs national IAD and all within over two thousands km Wink

    That would not only prevent to enemy nations to slowly bring and concentrate theirs aircraft ,radar, ships and command in the theatre of operation in view of an air campaign (an action that would simply expose them to theirs destruction even before be operational in the area !) ,but would also totally deprive them of any capabilities or time to plan the missions : in the best chance them would find themselves in the same situation of IAF in Yom Kippur war....
    avatar
    Regular

    Posts : 2029
    Points : 2033
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Regular on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:42 am

    IAF already bombed Syria with no consequences. And I woukd say that US has better odds than them. It's likely that US already knows exact capability of Syrian AD. Drones, satellites, CIA, defectors will help them paint the picture.
    It's very interesting what they will do- criple SAA or target so called WMD sites.
    I'm interested in seeing Syrian AD performance too, but wouldn't hold my breath.
    And about slaughter of civilians- rebels, terrorists, kurds, regime forces.. all of them don't really care about them. I don't think we can expect US carrying too.
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3246
    Points : 3352
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:56 pm

    I can't imagine that the Syrian AD network will be in any sort of shape to repel even a limited attack; it's been ravaged by the civil war same as everything else.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1390
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:50 pm

    Can somebody tell me how many BUK and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of.study 
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:21 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Can somebody tell me how many BUK  and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of.study 
    Wikipedia

    LINK


    Link mindstorm provided

    Syria's air defenses, Salvation or illusion? Подробнее: http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html

    SOC analysis

    LINK

    Another SOC article

    LINK


    And there you go. Now you need to sum up the whole thing. It will be interesting to see the role of Russian Navy in Syrian air defense throughout providing information about

    the start of the attack, numbers, vectors of approach etc.


    avatar
    SOC

    Posts : 581
    Points : 628
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  SOC on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:59 pm

    Yeah notice that the one thing I wrote there is from 2007, and is a bit out of date! Not too much has changed in terms of overall coverage or layout, but that was written before Chinese-made modern radars were located, new Russian SAM deliveries, etc.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1390
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Syrian Arab Air Defence Force

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:58 am

    Viktor wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Can somebody tell me how many BUK  and Pantsirs have been sold to Syria and what does the Syrian IADS currently consist of.study 
    Wikipedia

    LINK


    Link mindstorm provided

    Syria's air defenses, Salvation or illusion?  Подробнее: http://www.arms-expo.ru/057050048050.html

    SOC analysis

    LINK

    Another SOC article

    LINK


    And there you go. Now you need to sum up the whole thing. It will be interesting to see the role of Russian Navy in Syrian air defense throughout providing information about

    the start of the attack, numbers, vectors of approach etc.


    Thanks paratrooper 

    Sponsored content

    Re: Syrian Air Defence Force

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:39 am