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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

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    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:51 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:It's on liveuamap. It is possible the US may deploy troops to Donbas to prevent NAF from liberating Donbas.

    Shut the fuck up, seriously. You're batshit insane.

    I'm insane? I'm insane? If NAF is sane then why does NAF allow civilians to be killed by Maidan artillery every single day and not fire back? Huh? HUH?
    Please nobody reply to this bait.

    You don't have an answer, do you? What happened to Strelkov? What happened to Bolotov? What happened to Bezler? What happened to Bednov? What happened to Mozgovoi? What happened to Dremov? Where is Motorola? Where is Givi? Why does NAF allow civilians to be killed every day and not fire back? Why? WHY?


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Rodinazombie
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Rodinazombie on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:00 pm

    Latest photos prove russian involvement in todays incident in kiev.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Regular on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:36 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:It's on liveuamap. It is possible the US may deploy troops to Donbas to prevent NAF from liberating Donbas.

    Shut the fuck up, seriously. You're batshit insane.

    I'm insane? I'm insane? If NAF is sane then why does NAF allow civilians to be killed by Maidan artillery every single day and not fire back? Huh? HUH?
    If they are not firing back how come UA KIAs are pilling up?
    Everyone is firing at everyone. Simple as that.
    Stop panicking. Soon rest of Ukraine will be in flames. pirat

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:50 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest photos prove russian involvement in todays incident in kiev.


    Dem peski Ruskies are further ahead in their cloning program that expected. One Putin to deal with is bad enough, but dozens!!!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:22 pm

    http://m.ria.ru/defense_safety/20150831/1219659885.html?rubric=defense_safety

    Notes from article:
    - Exercise is in neutral waters in black sea
    - dozen or so ships from various countries
    - unlikely to Ukraines claim of # of ships participating
    - Russian bsf and airforce will be monitoring the exercise thoroughly.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:31 pm

    Ukranian Espresso-TV have said on air that of the 122 people wounded today, 21 had gunshot wounds. If they are right, then it seems more was going on that we thought, or saw.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Rodinazombie on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:39 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Ukranian Espresso-TV have said on air that of the 122 people wounded today, 21 had gunshot wounds. If they are right, then it seems more was going on that we thought, or saw.

    Who owns espresso tv again?

    Im not ready to start believing ukie figures about anything anytime soon.

    Could it be they are overstating the event in order to spread fear, use it as a pretext to take out tyagnibok and co?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:55 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Ukranian Espresso-TV have said on air that of the 122 people wounded today, 21 had gunshot wounds. If they are right, then it seems more was going on that we thought, or saw.

    Who owns espresso tv again?

    Im not ready to start believing ukie figures about anything anytime soon.

    Could it be they are overstating the event in order to spread fear, use it as a pretext to take out tyagnibok and co?
    It is owned by two journalists, not oligarchs, and had been criticised in the past for not being patriotic enough. They provided a lot of good coverage of the events leading up to the coup in February last year. IMO, the bigger the death toll and the worse the casualties the better becuase it increases the possibility of a crack down on Svoboda and pravy sektor, which should lead to fighting, and that is required....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:10 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:It's on liveuamap. It is possible the US may deploy troops to Donbas to prevent NAF from liberating Donbas.

    Shut the fuck up, seriously. You're batshit insane.

    Agreed.

    I see that Flagship Panic is up in his usual BS routine even though he did grab some points due to his choice of avatar.

    After all, Captain Crunch is one of the greatest military leaders of our time. lol1

    Also, did anyone see Dforce lately? Gosh, I hope he did not get his skull cracked open outside Rada... cry pwnd

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:13 pm

    Zakharchenko without crutches. And I wonder if anybody whispered to Kobzon that bald is better than the ridiculous rug on his head. He's a good guy, but painful on the eyes, and ears....


    Last edited by Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Ivan the Colorado
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:It's on liveuamap. It is possible the US may deploy troops to Donbas to prevent NAF from liberating Donbas.

    Shut the fuck up, seriously. You're batshit insane.

    Agreed.

    I see that Flagship Panic is up in his usual BS routine even though he did grab some points due to his choice of avatar.

    After all, Captain Crunch is one of the greatest military leaders of our time. lol1

    Also, did anyone see Dforce lately? Gosh, I hope he did not get his skull cracked open outside Rada... cry pwnd
    I'm sincerely curious on which side does he support here actually....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:25 pm

    Better view of what happened at Rada. The grenade at 1:10


    Last edited by Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:25 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:It's on liveuamap. It is possible the US may deploy troops to Donbas to prevent NAF from liberating Donbas.

    Shut the fuck up, seriously. You're batshit insane.

    Agreed.

    I see that Flagship Panic is up in his usual BS routine even though he did grab some points due to his choice of avatar.

    After all, Captain Crunch is one of the greatest military leaders of our time. lol1

    Also, did anyone see Dforce lately? Gosh, I hope he did not get his skull cracked open outside Rada... cry pwnd
    I'm sincerely curious on which side does he support here actually....

    Are you asking about Dforce or Crunch?

    I am pretty sure good Captain is on our side. russia

    Big D probably suffered a meltdown... lol1


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:27 pm

    Anyone seen Karl Haushofer lately? Is he banned?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:29 pm

    I have posted the whole article as they seem to have nailed the situation and it deserves a place here. Its from Global Research but pretty good regardless of that. What happens next will show us quite a lot about the state of the world.

    There now is open disagreement between three Western leaders regarding how to move forward with regard to Ukraine: Barack Obama of the United States, versus Francois Hollande of France, and Angela Merkel of Germany.

    On Friday, August 29th, this split became public concerning whether the Minsk II accords for ending the Ukrainian civil war should remain in force. Obama supports the view of Ukrainian President, Petro Poroshenko, to violate the Minsk II accords, which would end it; the same day, Hollande and Merkel agreed with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin, that the Minsk II agreement needs to be implemented in full.

    Merkel and Hollande had arranged the Minsk II accords without U.S. President Obama’s participation, because Obama’s Administration had installed the new, anti-Russian, government in Ukraine in a February 2014 coup, which sparked the breakaway from Ukraine by two former Ukrainian regions that had voted heavily for the man whom Obama had just overthrown, Viktor Yanukovych: first, Crimea, which had voted 75+% for Yanukovych; then Donbass (comprising “Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts”), which had voted 90%+% for Yanukovych. Obama’s agent overseeing the coup, Victoria Nuland, selected Arseniy Yatsenyuk to run the post-coup government and he became the newly appointed Prime Minister when the coup (called “the most blatant coup in history”) occurred 18 days later.

    Then, on 25 May 2014, the parts of Ukraine that had not separated from Ukraine elected as Ukraine’s new President, Petro Poroshenko. Mr. Poroshenko had informed the EU’s investigators on 25 February 2014 that the overthrow of Yanukovych had been via a coup instead of by a revolution (such as the Obama Administration claimed); but, now, on 25 May 2014, he himself became the new Ukraine’s President. In order to protect himself against the possiblility of being violently overthrown as his predecessor Yanukovych had been, he filed a case with Ukraine’s supreme court, the Constitutional Court, to recognize officially that Yanukovych had illegally been removed from the Presidency. (That case is still pending.)

    The current split concerns the provision in the Minsk II accords that requires the Ukrainian government to grant to the breakaway Donbass region a position within a new federal Ukrainian system in which the residents of Donbass will elect their own local leaders, instead of having their leaders imposed upon them (as the coup was) by the central Ukrainian government in Kiev. Donbass will then rejoin Ukraine, and the war will be officially over.

    On August 29th, Russia’s Interfax News Agency headlined, “Poroshenko: Ukrainian constitution won’t envision special status for Donbass,” and reported that Poroshenko said (referring to the current Ukrainian Constitution, and which he will not change), “No matter how you look for it there, there is no special status [for Donbass]. … That would lead to a parade of sovereignties. My amendments to the constitution eliminate this article, and there will be no right to such special status.”

    A few hours later the same day, Interfax bannered, “Merkel, Hollande Inform Putin on Adherence to Minsk Agreements,” and reported that Putin had phoned both EU leaders about this and received from them reassurance that they, like he, remained committed to full implementation of Minsk II. (Putin does not want Donbass to become part of Russia, but he also doesn’t want theinvasion of it by the Ukrainian Armed Forces to continue, especially because it has caused nearly a million refugees into Russia from Donbass. So: he needed to know whether they were behind Poroshenko’s statement, or whether it reflected only Obama’s view.)

    This is an international continuation of the disagreement within the Obama Administration regarding Poroshenko’s recent repeated threats to re-invade and forcibly take back Donbass despite the Minsk accords. At first, Kerry said that the U.S. would not support such an invasion, but his nominal subordinate, the Assistant Secretary of State for the area, Victoria Nuland, contradicted that, and President Obama sided with Nuland; she had been instructed to contradict Kerry on this.

    One can only speculate as to why Poroshenko has now said that there is no way he will carry through the “special administrative status” provision, provision #11, of the Minsk II Accords. That provision demands specifically what Poroshenko now specifically rejects: “Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with a new constitution to come into effect by the end of 2015, the key element of which is decentralisation (taking into account peculiarities of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, agreed with representatives of these districts), and also approval of permanent legislation on the special status of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in accordance with the measures spelt out in the attached footnote,[note 1] by the end of 2015.”

    Putin does not want Donbass to be in Russia, but Poroshenko now refuses to grant Donbass “special administrative status” within Ukraine. The only way that Poroshenko wants to take back Donbass is by force. On April 30th, Poroshenko had said, “The war will end when Ukraine regains Donbass and Crimea,” and onMay 11th, he said, “I have no doubt, we will free the [Donetsk] Airport [in Donetsk oblast], because it is our land.”

    On August 27th, Edward Basurin, a military official of the Donetsk People’s Republic had announced “UAF Massively shelling DPR — Drastic Deterioration,” saying that, “The fascists have used heavy artillery prohibited by the Minsk Agreements against the civilian areas of Aleksandrovka and Marinka. The outskirts of Donetsk have been struck.” Thus, when Poroshenko, two days later, announced that he would not continue with the Minsk II accords, Putin immediately got back into direct contact with Hollande and Merkel, to ask whether they still fully supported the accords.

    The result is a now-open split between the U.S. and Europe, over Ukraine. The split between Nuland and Kerry is now a split between the U.S. and Europe; or, as Nuland had said on 4 February 2014 while providing her subordinate in Kiev her instructions about the preparations and outcome of the coup: “F—k the EU!” Perhaps EU officials are getting increasingly cold feet about the entire matter, now a year-and-a-half later.


    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-war-open-disagreement-between-the-us-and-the-eu/5472930

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  franco on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:47 pm

    There now is open disagreement between three Western leaders regarding how to move forward with regard to Ukraine: Barack Obama of the United States, versus Francois Hollande of France, and Angela Merkel of Germany.

    Poroshenko is between a rock and a hard place in so many ways.

    - wants to be in the EU (Merkel and Hollande) but he is controlled by the USA (Obama)
    - came to and maintains power because of the neonazis and fascist (Banderaist) BUT that is like sharing a bed with a lion... kill or be eaten.
    - wants to defeat Donbass but doesn't have forces to do so
    - doesn't want any part of Minsk BUT he had to sign it
    - country financial broke so can't do anything without foreign permission
    - by the end of this the list wanting his head will be enormous

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm

    JohninMK wrote: I have posted the whole article as they seem to have nailed the situation and it deserves a place here. Its from Global Research but pretty good regardless of that. What happens next will show us quite a lot about the state of the world.

    There now is open disagreement between three Western leaders regarding how to move forward with regard to Ukraine: Barack Obama of the United States, versus Francois Hollande of France, and Angela Merkel of Germany.

    On Friday, August 29th, this split became public concerning whether the Minsk II accords for ending the Ukrainian civil war should remain in force. Obama supports the view of Ukrainian President, Petro Poroshenko, to violate the Minsk II accords, which would end it; the same day, Hollande and Merkel agreed with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin, that the Minsk II agreement needs to be implemented in full.

    Merkel and Hollande had arranged the Minsk II accords without U.S. President Obama’s participation, because Obama’s Administration had installed the new, anti-Russian, government in Ukraine in a February 2014 coup, which sparked the breakaway from Ukraine by two former Ukrainian regions that had voted heavily for the man whom Obama had just overthrown, Viktor Yanukovych: first, Crimea, which had voted 75+% for Yanukovych; then Donbass (comprising “Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts”), which had voted 90%+% for Yanukovych. Obama’s agent overseeing the coup, Victoria Nuland, selected Arseniy Yatsenyuk to run the post-coup government and he became the newly appointed Prime Minister when the coup (called “the most blatant coup in history”) occurred 18 days later.

    Then, on 25 May 2014, the parts of Ukraine that had not separated from Ukraine elected as Ukraine’s new President, Petro Poroshenko. Mr. Poroshenko had informed the EU’s investigators on 25 February 2014 that the overthrow of Yanukovych had been via a coup instead of by a revolution (such as the Obama Administration claimed); but, now, on 25 May 2014, he himself became the new Ukraine’s President. In order to protect himself against the possiblility of being violently overthrown as his predecessor Yanukovych had been, he filed a case with Ukraine’s supreme court, the Constitutional Court, to recognize officially that Yanukovych had illegally been removed from the Presidency. (That case is still pending.)

    The current split concerns the provision in the Minsk II accords that requires the Ukrainian government to grant to the breakaway Donbass region a position within a new federal Ukrainian system in which the residents of Donbass will elect their own local leaders, instead of having their leaders imposed upon them (as the coup was) by the central Ukrainian government in Kiev. Donbass will then rejoin Ukraine, and the war will be officially over.

    On August 29th, Russia’s Interfax News Agency headlined, “Poroshenko: Ukrainian constitution won’t envision special status for Donbass,” and reported that Poroshenko said (referring to the current Ukrainian Constitution, and which he will not change), “No matter how you look for it there, there is no special status [for Donbass]. … That would lead to a parade of sovereignties. My amendments to the constitution eliminate this article, and there will be no right to such special status.”

    A few hours later the same day, Interfax bannered, “Merkel, Hollande Inform Putin on Adherence to Minsk Agreements,” and reported that Putin had phoned both EU leaders about this and received from them reassurance that they, like he, remained committed to full implementation of Minsk II. (Putin does not want Donbass to become part of Russia, but he also doesn’t want theinvasion of it by the Ukrainian Armed Forces to continue, especially because it has caused nearly a million refugees into Russia from Donbass. So: he needed to know whether they were behind Poroshenko’s statement, or whether it reflected only Obama’s view.)

    This is an international continuation of the disagreement within the Obama Administration regarding Poroshenko’s recent repeated threats to re-invade and forcibly take back Donbass despite the Minsk accords. At first, Kerry said that the U.S. would not support such an invasion, but his nominal subordinate, the Assistant Secretary of State for the area, Victoria Nuland, contradicted that, and President Obama sided with Nuland; she had been instructed to contradict Kerry on this.

    One can only speculate as to why Poroshenko has now said that there is no way he will carry through the “special administrative status” provision, provision #11, of the Minsk II Accords. That provision demands specifically what Poroshenko now specifically rejects: “Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with a new constitution to come into effect by the end of 2015, the key element of which is decentralisation (taking into account peculiarities of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, agreed with representatives of these districts), and also approval of permanent legislation on the special status of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in accordance with the measures spelt out in the attached footnote,[note 1] by the end of 2015.”

    Putin does not want Donbass to be in Russia, but Poroshenko now refuses to grant Donbass “special administrative status” within Ukraine. The only way that Poroshenko wants to take back Donbass is by force. On April 30th, Poroshenko had said, “The war will end when Ukraine regains Donbass and Crimea,” and onMay 11th, he said, “I have no doubt, we will free the [Donetsk] Airport [in Donetsk oblast], because it is our land.”

    On August 27th, Edward Basurin, a military official of the Donetsk People’s Republic had announced “UAF Massively shelling DPR — Drastic Deterioration,” saying that, “The fascists have used heavy artillery prohibited by the Minsk Agreements against the civilian areas of Aleksandrovka and Marinka. The outskirts of Donetsk have been struck.” Thus, when Poroshenko, two days later, announced that he would not continue with the Minsk II accords, Putin immediately got back into direct contact with Hollande and Merkel, to ask whether they still fully supported the accords.

    The result is a now-open split between the U.S. and Europe, over Ukraine. The split between Nuland and Kerry is now a split between the U.S. and Europe; or, as Nuland had said on 4 February 2014 while providing her subordinate in Kiev her instructions about the preparations and outcome of the coup: “F—k the EU!” Perhaps EU officials are getting increasingly cold feet about the entire matter, now a year-and-a-half later.


    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-war-open-disagreement-between-the-us-and-the-eu/5472930

    No I do not think there is any disagreement. Germany, France, the US, they are all NATO. Their goal is one and the same, namely the destruction of Russia. France and Germany play good cop, the US plays bad cop. At the end of the day, Poroshenko is their puppet and Russia got tricked once again. Poroshenko clearly said he used Minsk 2 to buy time to strengthen blockade of NAF held Donbas.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:51 pm

    Ripped from Al-Romo in the other place, thanks to him. See they do think it is all down to Putin.

    24TV Ukrainian MSM has organized a poll on its website, 11 047 visitors voted so far, join asap you guys
    http://24tv.ua/ukrayina/hto_vlashtuv..._dumka/n607158

    Who stands behind the bloody mess near Rada today?

    1. This was Kremlin's provocation 35%
    2. Government 22%
    3. Opposition 13%
    4. Righteous wrath of the nation 23%
    5. Other opinion, state it in commentary section 8% - I blame absence of cookies

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:54 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Better view of what happened at Rada. The grenade at 1:10

    The police are the ones beating on their shields, like the protesters did on Maidan?

    & who is the big guy in white shirt behind the police, screaming at the police?

    & Is he the guy in the white shirt who administered first aid to the policeman, or is it the other guy in white shirt who was behind the police line, and who is he??? (different color of pants??)

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:59 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Ripped from Al-Romo in the other place, thanks to him. See they do think it is all down to Putin.

    24TV Ukrainian MSM has organized a poll on its website, 11 047 visitors voted so far, join asap you guys
    http://24tv.ua/ukrayina/hto_vlashtuv..._dumka/n607158

    Who stands behind the bloody mess near Rada today?

    1. This was Kremlin's provocation 35%
    2. Government 22%
    3. Opposition 13%
    4. Righteous wrath of the nation 23%
    5. Other opinion, state it in commentary section 8% - I blame absence of cookies

    And some people here want NAF to sacrifice their lives to ''liberate'' these morons. No

    Just a couple more months... santa santa santa

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:03 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    And some people here want NAF to sacrifice their lives to ''liberate'' these morons. No

    Just a couple more months... santa santa santa
    Way out of context of what I have ever said or meant... And the view of sit and wait is particular to anglophone forums, not Russian military and Donbass supporting networks where it gets shouted down. I speak for a majority viewpoint on such networks.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:19 pm

    On the video there's a guy at 0:17 who is wearing a white shirt, and looks like he has a black belt. I think that's who administered first aid to the policeman. Who are these guys in white shirts? behind the police, not in front of them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:27 pm

    This is what the neo con, Obama mouth piece had to say.

    Police Officer Is Killed in Kiev During Protests Over East Ukraine Vote

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/world/europe/ukraine-donetsk-luhansk-protests.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    KIEV, Ukraine — At least one police officer died and about 50 others were wounded on Monday in violent demonstrations here during a contentious vote in Parliament to grant autonomous status to two rebel-controlled zones in eastern Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  franco on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:29 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:On the video there's a guy at 0:17 who is wearing a white shirt, and looks like he has a black belt. I think that's who administered first aid to the policeman. Who are these guys in white shirts? behind the police, not in front of them.

    Hard to say. They could have been SBU (Security Service) but most likely were Ministry of Interior (police) senior officials.

    As for the beating the shields with the sticks, that is normal Riot Control procedure. Done to intimidate. The Romans apparently started in back when their Legions would march forward in attack.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:30 pm

    franco wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:On the video there's a guy at 0:17 who is wearing a white shirt, and looks like he has a black belt. I think that's who administered first aid to the policeman. Who are these guys in white shirts? behind the police, not in front of them.

    Hard to say. They could have been SBU (Security Service) but most likely were Ministry of Interior (police) senior officials.

    As for the beating the shields with the sticks, that is normal Riot Control procedure. Done to intimidate.  The Romans apparently started in back when their Legions would march forward in attack.  

    Thanks franco.

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