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    US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

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    PapaDragon
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    US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:24 pm

    angry
    And they say Russians are paranoid for no reason when in fact various douchebags have been actively trying to exterminate them for nearly a century:

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    Post WW2 World Order: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike

    Was the US deterrence military doctrine aimed against the Soviet Union during the Cold War era really "defensive" and who actually started the nuclear arms race paranoia?

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    Just weeks after the Second World War was over and Nazi Germany defeated Soviet Russia's allies, the United States and Great Britain hastened to develop military plans aimed at dismantling the USSR and wiping out its cities with a massive nuclear strike.

    Interestingly enough, then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill had ordered the British Armed Forces' Joint Planning Staff to develop a strategy targeting the USSR months before the end of the Second World War. The first edition of the plan was prepared on May 22, 1945. In accordance with the plan the invasion of Russia-held Europe by the Allied forces was scheduled on July 1, 1945.

    Winston Churchill's Operation Unthinkable

    The plan, dubbed Operation Unthinkable, stated that its primary goal was "to impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire. Even though 'the will' of these two countries may be defined as no more than a square deal for Poland, that does not necessarily limit the military commitment."

    The British Armed Forces' Joint Planning Staff underscored that the Allied Forces would win in the event of 1) the occupation of such metropolitan areas of Russia so that the war making capacity of the country would be reduced to a point to which further resistance would become impossible"; 2) "such a decisive defeat of the Russian forces in the field as to render it impossible for the USSR to continue the war."

    British generals warned Churchill that the "total war" would be hazardous to the Allied armed forces.

    However, after the United States "tested" its nuclear arsenal in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, Churchill and right-wing American policy makers started to persuade the White House to bomb the USSR. A nuclear strike against Soviet Russia, exhausted by the war with Germany, would have led to the defeat of the Kremlin at the same time allowing the Allied Forces to avoid US and British military casualties, Churchill insisted. Needless to say, the former British Prime Minister did not care about the death of tens of thousands of Russian peaceful civilians which were already hit severely by the four-year war nightmare.

    "He [Churchill] pointed out that if an atomic bomb could be dropped on the Kremlin, wiping it out, it would be a very easy problem to handle the balance of Russia, which would be without direction," an unclassified note from the FBI archive read.

    Following in Churchill's Footsteps: Operation Dropshot

    Unthinkable as it may seem, Churchill's plan literally won the hearts and minds of US policy makers and military officials. Between 1945 and the USSR's first detonation of a nuclear device in 1949, the Pentagon developed at least nine nuclear war plans targeting Soviet Russia, according to US researchers Dr. Michio Kaku and Daniel Axelrod. In their book "To Win a Nuclear War: the Pentagon's Secret War Plans," based on declassified top secret documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, the researchers exposed the US military's strategies to initiate a nuclear war with Russia.

    "The names given to these plans graphically portray their offensive purpose: Bushwhacker, Broiler, Sizzle, Shakedown, Offtackle, Dropshot, Trojan, Pincher, and Frolic. The US military knew the offensive nature of the job President Truman had ordered them to prepare for and had named their war plans accordingly," remarked American scholar J.W. Smith ("The World's Wasted Wealth 2").

    These "first-strike" plans developed by the Pentagon were aimed at destroying the USSR without any damage to the United States.

    The 1949 Dropshot plan envisaged that the US would attack Soviet Russia and drop at least 300 nuclear bombs and 20,000 tons of conventional bombs on 200 targets in 100 urban areas, including Moscow and Leningrad (St. Petersburg). In addition, the planners offered to kick off a major land campaign against the USSR to win a "complete victory" over the Soviet Union together with the European allies. According to the plan Washington would start the war on January 1, 1957.

    For a long period of time the only obstacle in the way of the US' massive nuclear offensive was that the Pentagon did not possess enough atomic bombs (by 1948 Washington boasted an arsenal of 50 atomic bombs) as well as planes to carry them in. For instance, in 1948 the US Air Force had only thirty-two B-29 bombers modified to deliver nuclear bombs.

    In September 1948 US president Truman approved a National Security Council paper (NSC 30) on "Policy on Atomic Warfare," which stated that the United States must be ready to "utilize promptly and effectively all appropriate means available, including atomic weapons, in the interest of national security and must therefore plan accordingly."

    At this time, the US generals desperately needed information about the location of Soviet military and industrial sites. So far, the US launched thousands of photographing overflights to the Soviet territory triggering concerns about a potential Western invasion of the USSR among the Kremlin officials. While the Soviets hastened to beef up their defensive capabilities, the military and political decision makers of the West used their rival's military buildup as justification for building more weapons.

    Meanwhile, in order to back its offensive plans Washington dispatched its B-29 bombers to Europe during the first Berlin crisis in 1948. In 1949 the US-led North Atlantic Treaty Organization was formed, six years before the USSR and its Eastern European allies responded defensively by establishing the Warsaw Pact — the Treaty of Friendship, Co-operation, and Mutual Assistance.

    Soviet Nuclear Bomb Test Undermined US Plan

    Just before the USSR tested its first atomic bomb, the US' nuclear arsenal had reached 250 bombs and the Pentagon came to the conclusion that a victory over the Soviet Union was now "possible." Alas, the detonation of the first nuclear bomb by the Soviet Union dealt a heavy blow to US militarists' plans.

    "The Soviet atomic bomb test on August 29, 1949 shook Americans who had believed that their atomic monopoly would last much longer, but did not immediately alter the pattern of war planning. The key issue remained just what level of damage would force a Soviet surrender," Professor Donald Angus MacKenzie of the University of Edinburgh remarked in his essay "Nuclear War Planning and Strategies of Nuclear Coercion."

    Although Washington's war planners knew that it would take years before the Soviet Union would obtain a significant atomic arsenal, the point was that the Soviet bomb could not be ignored.

    The Scottish researcher highlighted that the US was mainly focused not on "deterrence" but on "offensive" preemptive strike. "There was unanimity in 'insider circles' that the United States ought to plan to win a nuclear war. The logic that to do so implied to strike first was inescapable," he emphasized, adding that "first strike plans" were even represented in the official nuclear policy of the US.

    Remarkably, the official doctrine, first announced by then US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles in 1954, assumed America's possible nuclear retaliation to "any" aggression from the USSR.

    US' Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP)

    Eventually, in 1960 the US' nuclear war plans were formalized in the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP).

    At first, the SIOP envisaged a massive simultaneous nuclear strike against the USSR's nuclear forces, military targets, cities, as well as against China and Eastern Europe. It was planned that the US' strategic forces would use almost 3,500 atomic warheads to bomb their targets. According to US generals' estimates, the attack could have resulted in the death of about 285 to 425 million people. Some of the USSR's European allies were meant to be completely "wiped out."

    "We're just going to have to wipe it [Albania] out," US General Thomas Power remarked at the 1960 SIOP planning conference, as quoted by MacKenzie.

    However, the Kennedy administration introduced significant changes to the plan, insisting that the US military should avoid targeting Soviet cities and had to focus on the rival's nuclear forces alone. In 1962 the SIOP was modified but still it was acknowledged that the nuclear strike could lead to the death of millions of peaceful civilians.

    The dangerous competition instigated by the US prompted Soviet Russia to beef up its nuclear capabilities and dragged both countries into the vicious circle of the nuclear arms race. Unfortunately, it seems that the lessons of the past have not been learnt by the West and the question of the "nuclearization" of Europe is being raised again.

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    And this was right after WW2!!!

    What an honorable way to treat your allies you dipshits... angry

    kvs
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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:13 pm

    The problem is that the retarded elites of the US-UK are still under the delusion that they can take Russia out.

    I suspect that they have been engaged in very intensive spying and infiltration since 1991 into Russia's defense
    industries and installations. The probably have a way to disrupt Russia's launch commands. But this sort of
    access has a short shelf life, especially when someone with Putin's security track record is on watch. It is quite
    interesting how the western media never mentions Putin's revamp of Russia's intelligence agencies. I think this
    is one of his main achievements since 2000. So it is likely the US-UK infiltration has been quarantined but the
    clowns may not even know it. So they may be proceeding on the assumption that they have Russia's top secrets
    and can disrupt Russian command and control at will.

    Another piece of evidence that US-UK leaders are dangerously deluded is the whole business with the ABM shield.
    It is clear they actually drink the "high tech superiority" koolaid and really believe they can launch a first strike on
    Russia without a counter-launch. The above would be consistent with this hubris since they think they can
    disrupt any retaliatory strike.

    But they are tragically deluded.

    Rodinazombie
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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Rodinazombie on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:38 pm

    Dunno why you put so much emphasis on US-UK partnership, Uk is a minor partner that has no sway over american policy, we just jump however high uncle sham wants.

    kvs
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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:35 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Dunno why you put so much emphasis on US-UK partnership, Uk is a minor partner that has no sway over american policy, we just jump however high uncle sham wants.

    The UK is anti-Russia propaganda central. If the UK acted more like Germany, then we would be living in another, much better world.
    I don't know what the UK's Russia hate fetish is about. I can't find any solid historical reason for it. And I find the notion that the UK
    is offended by Russia's "barbarity" to be nonsensical. The UK is not offended by Saudi barbarity.

    I can see the UK headlines under the hypothetical situation that the Donbas gets ethnically cleansed like Krajina: "Serbs Them Right"
    would be repeated as "Don Bastards Sent Packing".

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:04 am

    I have no words, except to me proves that mentally unstable persons in governments have existed, and do exist.

    higurashihougi
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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:34 am

    I don't know game fanboys had already exists before the introduction of video games... Laughing Cool

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:13 am

    higurashihougi wrote:I don't know game fanboys had already exists before the introduction of video games... Laughing Cool

    You mean like the game theorists that run the Rand Corporation? Wink

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:16 am

    The hard truth is that U.S. temporal monopoly in nuclear weapon is short-lived, because of many reasons. After the war ended, the USSR was free to focus more manpower and materiel to its ambitious nuclear program. In 1949, the USSR successfully tested its first atomic bomb, effectively ended US monopoly in nuclear weapon and turned U.S. plan upside down. In 1955, USSR successfully tested its first non-tritium H-bomb. And in 1961 we had the Tsar Bomba, the mightiest nuclear bomb in the world. The shockwave caused by Tsar Bomba explosion moved 7 circle around the earth.

    Meanwhile. U.S. H-bomb still has to use tritium. Tritium is a non-durable material, has a short half-life (12 yrs) and is expensive to maintian. U.S. H-bomb cannot be very big, while Russian H-bomb uses no tritium and does not really have limit about size and power.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:14 am

    Arrghhh not this subject.

    Just google Curtis LeMay on the Soviet Union. Also google the actual audit done by the US themselved on the Strategical Use of the nuclear bombs by the US from 1949 till 1960.


    It was, first strike, at every possible target inside the USSR.
    By 1949 the "Ajax" plan, was found severy lacking in terms of damage. At maximum a massive nuclear attack on the USSR would have "only" killed from 8 to 30 million Soviets at best. From around 220 warheads and 50 targets in 1949, the same bombing plan grew up to 10K warheads and 5500 targets by 1957 reaching up to 120 million Soviet lives.

    We had this debate at MP.net and the conclusion was that the USA was ready to commit a genocide in order to achieve victory against the USSR. Oh and Curtis LeMay had this strategy he called "Nation Killing". This cost me a 3 month ban for nothing else but the sad truth.


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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:29 pm


    Funny thing is that none of this is a news to me, from Operation Unthinkable to Curtis ''Bombs Away'' LeMay since I am quite a nuclear war buff.

    It is the cold callousness with which they planned to simply backstab and exterminate people who fought alongside them for past four years in most horrible war in history even before that war ended in earnest.
    And for what? Ideology, nothing else...

    It really puts a big dent in my faith in mankind. No

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Fred333 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:03 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Funny thing is that none of this is a news to me, from Operation Unthinkable to Curtis ''Bombs Away'' LeMay since I am quite a nuclear war buff.

    It is the cold callousness  with which they planned to simply backstab and exterminate people who fought alongside them for past four years in most horrible war in history even before that war ended in earnest.
    And for what? Ideology, nothing else...

    It really puts a big dent in my faith in mankind. No

    then again, it didn't happen in the end. States sometimes make the worst kind of plans, a Warsaw Pact invasion of western Europe in the 80s would have seen the deployment of hundreds of tactical nukes. Tactical or not, it would have led to the slaughter of millions of civilians and escalation into a strategic nuclear war.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Godric on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote: angry
    And they say Russians are paranoid for no reason when in fact various douchebags have been actively trying to exterminate them for nearly a century:

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    Post WW2 World Order: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike

    Was the US deterrence military doctrine aimed against the Soviet Union during the Cold War era really "defensive" and who actually started the nuclear arms race paranoia?

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    Just weeks after the Second World War was over and Nazi Germany defeated Soviet Russia's allies, the United States and Great Britain hastened to develop military plans aimed at dismantling the USSR and wiping out its cities with a massive nuclear strike.

    Interestingly enough, then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill had ordered the British Armed Forces' Joint Planning Staff to develop a strategy targeting the USSR months before the end of the Second World War. The first edition of the plan was prepared on May 22, 1945. In accordance with the plan the invasion of Russia-held Europe by the Allied forces was scheduled on July 1, 1945.

    Winston Churchill's Operation Unthinkable

    The plan, dubbed Operation Unthinkable, stated that its primary goal was "to impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire. Even though 'the will' of these two countries may be defined as no more than a square deal for Poland, that does not necessarily limit the military commitment."

    The British Armed Forces' Joint Planning Staff underscored that the Allied Forces would win in the event of 1) the occupation of such metropolitan areas of Russia so that the war making capacity of the country would be reduced to a point to which further resistance would become impossible"; 2) "such a decisive defeat of the Russian forces in the field as to render it impossible for the USSR to continue the war."

    British generals warned Churchill that the "total war" would be hazardous to the Allied armed forces.

    However, after the United States "tested" its nuclear arsenal in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, Churchill and right-wing American policy makers started to persuade the White House to bomb the USSR. A nuclear strike against Soviet Russia, exhausted by the war with Germany, would have led to the defeat of the Kremlin at the same time allowing the Allied Forces to avoid US and British military casualties, Churchill insisted. Needless to say, the former British Prime Minister did not care about the death of tens of thousands of Russian peaceful civilians which were already hit severely by the four-year war nightmare.

    "He [Churchill] pointed out that if an atomic bomb could be dropped on the Kremlin, wiping it out, it would be a very easy problem to handle the balance of Russia, which would be without direction," an unclassified note from the FBI archive read.

    Following in Churchill's Footsteps: Operation Dropshot

    Unthinkable as it may seem, Churchill's plan literally won the hearts and minds of US policy makers and military officials. Between 1945 and the USSR's first detonation of a nuclear device in 1949, the Pentagon developed at least nine nuclear war plans targeting Soviet Russia, according to US researchers Dr. Michio Kaku and Daniel Axelrod. In their book "To Win a Nuclear War: the Pentagon's Secret War Plans," based on declassified top secret documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, the researchers exposed the US military's strategies to initiate a nuclear war with Russia.

    "The names given to these plans graphically portray their offensive purpose: Bushwhacker, Broiler, Sizzle, Shakedown, Offtackle, Dropshot, Trojan, Pincher, and Frolic. The US military knew the offensive nature of the job President Truman had ordered them to prepare for and had named their war plans accordingly," remarked American scholar J.W. Smith ("The World's Wasted Wealth 2").

    These "first-strike" plans developed by the Pentagon were aimed at destroying the USSR without any damage to the United States.

    The 1949 Dropshot plan envisaged that the US would attack Soviet Russia and drop at least 300 nuclear bombs and 20,000 tons of conventional bombs on 200 targets in 100 urban areas, including Moscow and Leningrad (St. Petersburg). In addition, the planners offered to kick off a major land campaign against the USSR to win a "complete victory" over the Soviet Union together with the European allies. According to the plan Washington would start the war on January 1, 1957.

    For a long period of time the only obstacle in the way of the US' massive nuclear offensive was that the Pentagon did not possess enough atomic bombs (by 1948 Washington boasted an arsenal of 50 atomic bombs) as well as planes to carry them in. For instance, in 1948 the US Air Force had only thirty-two B-29 bombers modified to deliver nuclear bombs.

    In September 1948 US president Truman approved a National Security Council paper (NSC 30) on "Policy on Atomic Warfare," which stated that the United States must be ready to "utilize promptly and effectively all appropriate means available, including atomic weapons, in the interest of national security and must therefore plan accordingly."

    At this time, the US generals desperately needed information about the location of Soviet military and industrial sites. So far, the US launched thousands of photographing overflights to the Soviet territory triggering concerns about a potential Western invasion of the USSR among the Kremlin officials. While the Soviets hastened to beef up their defensive capabilities, the military and political decision makers of the West used their rival's military buildup as justification for building more weapons.

    Meanwhile, in order to back its offensive plans Washington dispatched its B-29 bombers to Europe during the first Berlin crisis in 1948. In 1949 the US-led North Atlantic Treaty Organization was formed, six years before the USSR and its Eastern European allies responded defensively by establishing the Warsaw Pact — the Treaty of Friendship, Co-operation, and Mutual Assistance.

    Soviet Nuclear Bomb Test Undermined US Plan

    Just before the USSR tested its first atomic bomb, the US' nuclear arsenal had reached 250 bombs and the Pentagon came to the conclusion that a victory over the Soviet Union was now "possible." Alas, the detonation of the first nuclear bomb by the Soviet Union dealt a heavy blow to US militarists' plans.

    "The Soviet atomic bomb test on August 29, 1949 shook Americans who had believed that their atomic monopoly would last much longer, but did not immediately alter the pattern of war planning. The key issue remained just what level of damage would force a Soviet surrender," Professor Donald Angus MacKenzie of the University of Edinburgh remarked in his essay "Nuclear War Planning and Strategies of Nuclear Coercion."

    Although Washington's war planners knew that it would take years before the Soviet Union would obtain a significant atomic arsenal, the point was that the Soviet bomb could not be ignored.

    The Scottish researcher highlighted that the US was mainly focused not on "deterrence" but on "offensive" preemptive strike. "There was unanimity in 'insider circles' that the United States ought to plan to win a nuclear war. The logic that to do so implied to strike first was inescapable," he emphasized, adding that "first strike plans" were even represented in the official nuclear policy of the US.

    Remarkably, the official doctrine, first announced by then US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles in 1954, assumed America's possible nuclear retaliation to "any" aggression from the USSR.

    US' Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP)

    Eventually, in 1960 the US' nuclear war plans were formalized in the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP).

    At first, the SIOP envisaged a massive simultaneous nuclear strike against the USSR's nuclear forces, military targets, cities, as well as against China and Eastern Europe. It was planned that the US' strategic forces would use almost 3,500 atomic warheads to bomb their targets. According to US generals' estimates, the attack could have resulted in the death of about 285 to 425 million people. Some of the USSR's European allies were meant to be completely "wiped out."

    "We're just going to have to wipe it [Albania] out," US General Thomas Power remarked at the 1960 SIOP planning conference, as quoted by MacKenzie.

    However, the Kennedy administration introduced significant changes to the plan, insisting that the US military should avoid targeting Soviet cities and had to focus on the rival's nuclear forces alone. In 1962 the SIOP was modified but still it was acknowledged that the nuclear strike could lead to the death of millions of peaceful civilians.

    The dangerous competition instigated by the US prompted Soviet Russia to beef up its nuclear capabilities and dragged both countries into the vicious circle of the nuclear arms race. Unfortunately, it seems that the lessons of the past have not been learnt by the West and the question of the "nuclearization" of Europe is being raised again.

    http://www.sputniknews.com/politics/20150815/1025789574.html

    And this was right after WW2!!!

    What an honorable way to treat your allies you dipshits... angry

    it was well known that Churchill wanted to kick the Soviet Union out of Poland he had promised Polish generals that he would restore Poland including cities like Lwow/Lviv and Brest ... but the reality on the ground was the UK's best Battle tank was the Comet which was on par with the German Panzer IV Ausf H and the Uk only had them in small numbers same with their other MBT the Cromwell tank which was on par with the German Panzer IV Ausf G .... they had Sherman Firefly's but they were even rarer and Russians had loads of experience with the Sherman tank and their many flaws the reality was the UK was economically exhausted hence the rapid collapse of the British empire ... The American's had a small number of Pershing tanks ... the west had only faced around 20% of the German armed forces on the western front and they caused the Western Allies endless problems ... the Soviet Union had 10's of thousands of T-34/85s and JS-2 and ISU tanks destroyers and 10s of thousands of artillery not forgetting the thousands of Katushas and 10s of thousands of Aircraft like the excellent Yak-3s and 5s fighters .... it would have been a massacre for the west

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:02 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Arrghhh not this subject.

    Just google Curtis LeMay on the Soviet Union. Also google the actual audit done by the US themselved on the Strategical Use of the nuclear bombs by the US from 1949 till 1960.


    It was, first strike, at every possible target inside the USSR.
    By 1949 the "Ajax" plan, was found severy lacking in terms of damage. At maximum a massive nuclear attack on the USSR would have "only" killed from 8 to 30 million Soviets at best. From around 220 warheads and 50 targets in 1949, the same bombing plan grew up to 10K warheads and 5500 targets by 1957 reaching up to 120 million Soviet lives.

    We had this debate at MP.net and the conclusion was that the USA was ready to commit a genocide in order to achieve victory against the USSR. Oh and Curtis LeMay had this strategy he called "Nation Killing". This cost me a 3 month ban for nothing else but the sad truth.


    No rules about Anti-Americanism over there Aye?

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:10 pm

    Why so much fuss about it?

    Countries usually make a lot of strategic plans "in case of..." - 99% of them are never put into action in real life. There's a reason why the entire plan was called "Operation Unthinkable" - because it would taken unthinkable stupidity to try to put it into action.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:23 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Why so much fuss about it?

    Countries usually make a lot of strategic plans "in case of..." - 99% of them are never put into action in real life. There's a reason why the entire plan was called "Operation Unthinkable" - because it would taken unthinkable stupidity to try to put it into action.

    Why make a big fuss about it?

    Your ALLIES, the fucking US and the fucking UK who occupy us germans but call themselfs FRIENDS AND ALLIES have made a plan to use us as a human shield and use us against USSR as cannon fodder. It is not the so called evil USSR who wanted us to exterminate but our occupators which you call friends and allies, you are the one that does not want to change anything, you do not want the americunts to be gone from our soil and to become souvereign, so of course why make a big fuss when you are a traitor and pro US, but damn those aggressive iranians...

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:33 pm

    If they wanted, they would've done it. But they didn't.

    Neither sidde wanted war. Neither in 1945, nor in 1970 nor in 1989. If you don't use your military plans, then they are nothing more than a piece of paper somewhere in the archives.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:38 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:If they wanted, they would've done it. But they didn't.

    Neither sidde wanted war. Neither in 1945, nor in 1970 nor in 1989.

    "If they wanted they would have done it"

    They want it, but they can't do it without being wiped out themselfs.

    The US wants global domination but can't achieve it with existing of russia, iran, syria, china,india. Why do you think the US has done almost everything possible to use china against russia but always failed? Because they want world domination, they just can't get it simple as that.

    They wanted war the plans show it, in 1970's there were plans, i do not know the exact name of operation but Ganser knows it, that NATO would attack GDR/DDR to provoce soviet union to defend GDR and then use around 300 tactical nukes against russian forces on german soil to decapitate Soviet forces and then use rest of NATO to attack Soviet Union. Plans are not made for blns over blns of dollars with the highest secrecy level without certain intentions, nobody pays money for things in major geopolitical strategies without expectations and goals they seek.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  max steel on Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:24 pm

    afro affraid bounce

    Russia planned to 'drop nuclear bombs on London' in the Cold War








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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:55 pm

    max steel wrote:afro  affraid  bounce

    Russia planned to 'drop nuclear bombs on London' in the Cold War








    Garbage is garbage. Do they state any official signed plans like we know exist with Operations Unthinkable by british scum Churchill or Operation Gladio?

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:18 am

    Hilarious sensationalist BS. Every nuclear power was planning, in detail, attacks on their "enemies". This Independent article
    has no relevance for this thread. The US was serious about taking out the USSR before it could catch up in terms of nuclear
    weapons and their delivery instruments. They gave up because they didn't have the capacity for an overwhelming attack themselves.
    These were not "gaming" scenarios.

    The USSR was not planning to nuke the UK during the 1980s by any stretch of the imagination.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  StreetRanger on Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:54 am

    At the end of the second world war when Germany surrendered Berlin, there was a meeting between the heads of the Allied powers, and President Truman mentioned at the meeting that he had a "superweapon" that could get Japan to surrender within a few weeks. Stalin's response in a nutshell was basically "he knew" and furthermore "he knew that we knew". There were two Operations that brought about the invention of the atom bomb. Operation Paperclip, which brought all disgraced Nazi scientists to the US, pardon them, then assign them to the bomb development teams. This was followed by the Manhattan Project, which brought many groups of engineers, scientists and math professors to take the bomb from theoretical to operational. I saw a special on this very project on the History Channel, it was made in the year 2000, and the title was The Manhaattan Project" they talked to people that were there, some of the key people. They also outed at least 5 russian spies who were involved in the project and took what they learned back to Stalin, and that is why they had bombs for themselves so soon after we dropped bombs on Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. It may have been at a planning stage with regard to hit Russia with the bombs, but given this intelligence, there is no way the US would have wanted to trade a nuclear exchange with Russia. I am glad we did not go to war and hope we never do. Even though it seems as if we are natural enemies, if the US and Russia were partners, through that relationships all things are possible on a global scale that can reach out to the stars and beyond.

    I hope one day to see Russia and the US on the same page. We should have supported them more after the USSR fell, we gave to much to NATO, should have been more of a balance.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:28 am

    No disrespect meant but don't rely on the History channel.

    Just a bit of common sense would tell anyone that German scientists would not have helped the development of a nuclear bomb... they would be starting from a place of ignorance compared with all the scientists in the US from all around the world who had been working for some time on the problem.

    The Soviets had their own programme and they stole a lot of information but they were hardly just copying... the first US hydrogen bomb (ie fusion as opposed to fission) was the size of a house and was tested on a tower structure in the desert. The first Soviet hydrogen bomb was a weapon dropped from an aircraft and was a viable weapon of war. It had a unique design with layers like an onion and was far more compact and lighter than the US equivalent.

    I totally agree that the US missed a real opportunity after the cold war to at least get Russia on side... instead it just tried to walk all over them instead of treating them with any respect... which is sadly the way the US seems to treat every country...


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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:33 am

    I would add though that German scientists might not have been that important for the first fission bomb like those dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were critical in development of rocket technology in the US and also very important in the Soviet Union as well.


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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  kvs on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:01 am

    GarryB wrote:No disrespect meant but don't rely on the History channel.

    Just a bit of common sense would tell anyone that German scientists would not have helped the development of a nuclear bomb... they would be starting from a place of ignorance compared with all the scientists in the US from all around the world who had been working for some time on the problem.

    The Soviets had their own programme and they stole a lot of information but they were hardly just copying... the first US hydrogen bomb (ie fusion as opposed to fission) was the size of a house and was tested on a tower structure in the desert. The first Soviet hydrogen bomb was a weapon dropped from an aircraft and was a viable weapon of war. It had a unique design with layers like an onion and was far more compact and lighter than the US equivalent.

    I totally agree that the US missed a real opportunity after the cold war to at least get Russia on side... instead it just tried to walk all over them instead of treating them with any respect... which is sadly the way the US seems to treat every country...

    Yet I was hearing routinely during the Cold War that the Soviets developed their hydrogen bomb thanks to sampling the isotopes in the air around the
    US hydrogen bomb tests. I guess for the totally uninformed this sounds plausible and not idiotic. Sampling isotopes will hardly give you information
    about the mechanics of the bomb, i.e. how the hydrogen fusion is initiated. Also, the layer-cake design by Sakharov was always fobbed off as
    being less potent than the American bombs. Of course, the fact that they couldn't be delivered to their targets was not mentioned.

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    Re: US Planned to Wipe USSR Out by Massive Nuclear Strike after WW2

    Post  kvs on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:09 am

    GarryB wrote:I would add though that German scientists might not have been that important for the first fission bomb like those dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were critical in development of rocket technology in the US and also very important in the Soviet Union as well.

    By 1957 these German contributions were basically irrelevant and by that stage it was clear that the Americans had failed to develop
    rockets at the level of the Soviets even though they had skimmed off the best Nazi rocket scientists including Von Brain and his team.
    However, the death of Korolyov combined with the horrendous Soviet bureaucratic fiefdom structure led to the plumber's nightmare
    called the N1. What a pathetic failure after having developed superior rockets first. But in terms of rocket engines, the Soviets
    stayed on top and that is why America is still buying the RD-180 engines for its Atlas rockets. As late as 1991 the US could not believe
    that steel alloys could be developed that would support a high pressure staged combustion cycle.

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