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    Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

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    max steel
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  max steel on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:40 am

    Russian missile maker doubled its export order book in 2014

    Almaz-Antey received 43 requests for military hardware from 12 countries in 2014 Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey’s 2014 order book exceeded its 2012 portfolio by about two times, a representative of the manufacturer said at the Russia Arms Expo 2015 arms show on Friday.
    "Based on the requests received, nine contracts were signed with foreign customers in 2014. As of late 2014, the overall export order book was virtually twice as large as that in 2012," the Almaz-Antey representative said.

    According to him, Almaz-Antey received 43 requests for military hardware from 12 countries in 2014. The manufacturer is entitled by law to export combat hardware independently. "In all, the consortium was fulfilling 28 contracts for military hardware and services and four contracts for foreign personnel training in 2014," the Almaz-Antey employee added.

    Thirteen new items were added to the list of weapon systems that Almaz-Antey exported last year.

    "The number of Almaz-Antey-developed and -made export products is growing continuously. Thirteen advanced products were cleared for export in 2014," the manufacturer’s representative said, adding that he was not authorized to name the products.
    Six countries requested improvements in their aftersales servicing facilities, and their requests are being fulfilled on schedule.

    mutantsushi
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  mutantsushi on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:52 am

    I'm not sure why people get their panties in a bunch because this future "AI" turret won't be happening immediately.
    So what?  They also publicize 2025+ timeline Ratnik developments with "smart" camoflauge etc, PAK-DA etc.  No promises for next week.

    Anyhow, while Epocha 30mm is being paraded on Kurganets and Armata, and A220M and unmanned 100mm+30mm being promoted for export,
    there seems to be no concrete indication of future heavier BMP/BMPT turrets on Russian Army Kurganets and Armata...
    Which I take as meaning that is still in development / decision making process.  It also makes sense that a new caliber turret will not be introduced until the ammo is fully ready for it, as well as FCS/meta-FCS (as in article) to go with that.
    I don't think they necessarily need the full-on "AI" level of FCS/meta-FCS as discussed in order to go with new turret/caliber for heavy IFV,
    but I do think there's still some details being worked out and MoD is happy to get Kurganets/Armata platforms ironed out before new turrets/ammo hit the production line.

    Pretty sure i saw an ammo load-out figure for A220 config'd BMP at AFAIK it was not close to 200 rnds.
    Which is why I think they are still developing Case Telescoped 45, which will have much better volume/rnd, equivalent performance.

    Of course in the meantime they can still offer 57mm for those who want it, apparently including UAE.
    The anti-air capability of that round/turret seems strongly promoted, appropriate given anti-air heritage of that round.

    zg18
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  zg18 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:00 am

    Belarussian MZKT-600201 VOLAT




    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:05 pm

    mutantsushi wrote: Pretty sure i saw an ammo load-out figure for A220 config'd BMP at AFAIK it was not close to 200 rnds.
    Which is why I think they are still developing Case Telescoped 45, which will have much better volume/rnd, equivalent performance.

    Of course in the meantime they can still offer 57mm for those who want it, apparently including UAE.
    The anti-air capability of that round/turret seems strongly promoted, appropriate given anti-air heritage of that round.


    We for anti-air it is just ingenious also for Russian army can you imagine direct hit to famous A-10  ? Surprised)
    As for ammo indeed depending on sources here 80 rounds ready for immediate action. 200 rounds looks like fun but not for those on the other side of barrel Smile




    however here:
    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201507081803-jdeq.htm

    and here

    http://bastion-karpenko.ru/au220m/



    after google translation Smile

    CHARACTERISTICS
    Overall dimensions, mm: Length x width x height 5820 x 2100 x 1300
    GUN automatic caliber 57 mm
    The maximum rate of fire, rds. / Min 120
    Range of fire, m 12000
    Angles pointing, elevation - Vertical -5 ... + 75
    On the horizon 360
    Ammunition 200 rds
    Types of ammunition shots unitary loader with high-explosive, armor-piercing projectiles and manageable

    Paired 7.62-mm machine gun
    Rate of fire, rds. / Min 700 ... 800
    Accurate firing range, m 1500
    Ammunition  2000 rds

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:07 pm

    Mike E wrote:^ That is correct.

    If we are talking about a new APFSDS at muzzle, the figure of penetration could be closer to 300 mm.

    Quite possible but do you have any tables with ammo penetration? Woudl be helpful. BTW with tanks penetration is maybe not possible for 57mm but a short burst of HE rounds can "clean " tank from all optics.

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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:17 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Mike E wrote:^ That is correct.

    If we are talking about a new APFSDS at muzzle, the figure of penetration could be closer to 300 mm.

    Quite possible but do you have any tables with ammo penetration? Woudl be helpful. BTW with tanks penetration is maybe not possible for 57mm but a short burst of HE rounds can "clean " tank from all optics.

    A 57mm APFSDS fired projectile will pierce the hull sides of any tank and probably even both.

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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:35 pm

    Werewolf wrote: A 57mm APFSDS fired projectile will pierce the hull sides of any tank and probably even both.

    Only not Abrams one Smile


    BTW I am not into pagan metal but this one is cool Smile



    Militarov
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:52 pm

    Some people asked about older AT guns of similar caliber and their penetration on different ranges and angles.

    http://mr-home.staff.shef.ac.uk/hobbies/ww2pen3.pdf here you have some info, however note that ranges are in yards apparently. But take note that both ammo and guns went long way since then.

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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  cracker on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:59 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Mike E wrote:I'm more excited about a possible future APFSDS. IIRC it would have something over 200 mm of penetration, or better according to claims. 

    57 mm airburst would be nice as well; certainly enough to harm your average helicopter.

    Projectile of 57mm ZiS-2 from 1941 could penetrate  190mm so 200mm is not much progress :-)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_%28ZiS-2%29

    But for any IVF, APC or helo 57mm is more than enough for nearest future.  BTW BMP-3 needs no  100mm/30mm combo anymore.  1 module 57mm with t200 rounds will do the job Smile


    The 57mm uses the 57x348SR cartridge, as such, its sole existing rounds are:

    FRAG-T OR-281U
    APCBC-HE-T BR-281U

    no APCR was ever intended for this cartridge, not even the BR-271N post war APCR as used on the 57x480R Zis-2 cartridge.

    WW2 era BR-271P APCR is a very poor round despite its impressive penetration at point blank range. The APCBC is better at all ranges, even point blank, if the target is not a flat cube of steel.

    So, expect only these to be used, plus of course the new designs. Penetration of BR-281U (1000m/s) is ~145mm at 100m and 0°. Seems poor, but it's sufficient vs most APCs and even IFVs inside 1km, the round has good post-penetration effect, and can also serve as a penetrating frag round against unarmored vehicles, against light bunkers, usual brick, concrete or cinder block buildings.

    APFSDS of good design should be able to penetrate 120 or even 150mm at 60° and 1km. This would translate to 320-350mm at point blank and 0°


    Edit: images of BR-281U APCBC-HE-T round. The real photo shows a BR-271M APCBC-HE-T, it's identical except it's its name when mounted on the ZiS-2's cartridge, the sole difference is the rotating bands' design.





    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/57_mm_BR-281U.jpg

    Compared to what sorts of kinetic projectiles are thrown by the 30mm 2A42, no doubt this vintage round is already a huge improvement.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:55 am

    http://missiles2go.ru/2015/10/05/den-innovacy-mo-rossii-2015-foto/

    GarryB
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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:58 am

    Those modern plastic driving bands that reduce friction and increase muzzle velocity and reduce barrel wear would be useful for the 57mm calibre rounds too.

    We also need to keep in mind that such calibres offer a significant increase in HE power which can be rather more useful on a modern battlefield than pure armour penetration performance.

    A decent APHE round that can penetrate a moderate amount of armour but then explode inside the target will be vastly more lethal than a metal dart that can penetrate right through a target and continue out the other side.

    And of course a guided shell able to hit point or manouvering targets at extended ranges would also be a very valuable addition.


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    Re: Russia Arms Expo 2015: Official Thread

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:Those modern plastic driving bands that reduce friction and increase muzzle velocity and reduce barrel wear would be useful for the 57mm calibre rounds too.

    They also don't require any decoppering; so there is no lead decopperer, obviating the environmental issues associated with lead. thumbsup

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