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    Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

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    JohninMK
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    Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:56 pm

    Bit of more detail, interesting to know what is in that Turkish 1982 law.

    Note the last para confirming a post of mine from last week, French planes are now at Incirlik so it must be getting busy there. Also I noted a comment elsewhere that French targeting data is being supplied by CENTCOM and their planes are allocated targets rather than US/NATO. The A-10 pilots can't be too happy about that!

    In a clear violation of international norms, Turkish authorities have created hurdles for Russian vessels passing through the Bosphorus Strait; as a result, dozens of Russian ships have been waiting for hours to obtain the green light from Turkey for passage, media reports said. RIA Novosti quoted Viktor Kravchenko, former chief of staff of the Russian Navy, as saying that a possible unilateral closure by Turkey of the Bosphorus Strait for Russian ships would be out of line with international law. "Turkey will not close the strait to Russian vessels en route to Syria because it would be a violation of international law and the Montreux Convention, in particular, — a document that was signed by most counties at the time", he said.

    The 1936 Montreux Convention on the Regime of the Straits regulates the passage of civilian and naval ships through the Bosphorus Strait and the Dardanelles. According to Article 2, "merchant vessels shall enjoy complete freedom of transit and navigation in the Straits, by day and by night, under any flag and with any kind of cargo, without any formalities."

    As for naval warships, in times of peace Turkey must permit the passage of small and medium-sized vessels belonging to all nations. The Black Sea powers (formerly including the USSR and now Russia) can navigate warships of any class through the Straits, "on condition that these vessels pass through the Straits singly, escorted by not more than two destroyers." In times of war, the passage of warships shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish government, according to the document.

    In December 1982, the UN elaborated the Convention on the Law of the Sea, but Turkey refused to join it and the Montreux convention remained in force. In 1994, Turkey unilaterally adopted new Maritime Traffic Regulations for the Straits, and included a number of restrictions for the passage of foreign vessels.

    Meanwhile, it was reported that French fighter jets will use the Incirlik military base and that the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle will receive logistical support in the Turkish port of Mersin.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151201/1031038783/russia-turkey-ships-strait.html#ixzz3t4L7HRvP

    JohninMK
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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:09 pm

    Thanks to whoever moved my last posts.

    The plot thickens. This is an excerpt from a Sputnik release put out shortly after the earlier one about the Straits being blocked, contradicting it.

    On Tuesday, a military diplomatic source told Russia's RIA Novosti that Russian Navy ships are not experiencing any problems in passing through the Bosporus and the Dardanelles at the moment, adding that the Yauza's meeting with the Turkish sub is not out of the ordinary in conditions of heavy traffic in the transit zone.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20151201/1031037798/turkish-sub-russian-ship.html#ixzz3t4PEaLT0

    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:39 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    headshot69 wrote:Turkey has blocked Bhosporus for Russian supply ships - they need to wait for hours to pass.

    Several dozen Russian ships have accumulated in the passage through the Bosporus. Turkey makes them hours to wait for permission to enter the straits, writes RT.  

    Turkey has no right to close the strait. This is only possible if a country has officially entered the war.

    Turkish MPs have calculated potential losses from the Russian sanctions. The aggravation of the Russian-Turkish relations will be only for one province Antalya more than 6.5 billion.

    LINKhttp://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201512010527-4prv.htm

    They still can if they have issued Persona Non Grata against Russians.

    You can't block shipping lanes on peace time. Montreux and all that jazz. Doing so= Casus belli. That's why they delay the boats, not stop them. Probably for "search".
    Correct that the route can't be blocked in peacetime but I bet that the maximum time for 'administrative' delays in issuing approval to pass is not set out. Be interesting to know if this is affecting all ships or just Russian Navy or just Russian merchant marine or just all Russian. If I was Turkey it would be all ships just to be on the safe side, you know, the guy who signs the documents is off sick.

    It depends. Russian commercial ships sure. Military...not exactly. The hindrance could take half a day at best for military ships, although they cannot be searched.

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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:46 pm

    From the other thread, sorry for the bad cut and past. It is certainly turning into a bit of an issue!

    JohninMK wrote:
    Sputnik might not be totally correct, Russian military spokesman said today no navy ship problem whilst local media says there is a problem. It could be a merchant ship only issue but there is more in the posts now moved to the other thread.

    Khepesh wrote:
    It is only a problem with merchant ships, but it is outrageous that Turkey should be making these difficulties that would not be tolerated by America. It could be seen as a deliberate humiliation to interfere with Russian ships like this, and needs to be stopped at once. America has done whatever it likes since 1991, kill countless civilians, destroy some countries and cause chaos in others, all while Russia has sat on the sidelines and occasionaly squeaked in protest like a weak and feeble mouse. Enough, if Turkey shoots down VKS and fucks with Russian shipping then the fist comes down and these bastards should be made to shit their pants, and if America complains then fuck them.

    JohninMK wrote:
    I was getting to that view but had no confirmation. At least a significant part of the Syrian Express is using Navy ships. Now we need some Russian publicity shots of the grain ships that the Turks are stopping getting through to the staving people in the refugee camps in Syria!

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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:36 pm

    That it, its over, there is no issue, some journalist picked up crap and is now embarrassed!

    "There are no problems with Russian ships passing through the straits, although it is quite normal that some vessels are waiting due to the straits' workload or natural disasters, hampering navigation," the source said.
    ...........................
    Earlier on Monday, it was reported that dozens of Russian ships had reportedly been waiting for hours near the Bosphorus Strait to get the go-ahead from Turkey to be able to pass through the waterway. Meanwhile, a Russian naval transport ship had encountered a Turkish submarine in the Dardanelles.

    Some were quick to draw attention to the incidents in light of the ongoing deterioration in relations between Moscow and Ankara after last week's downing by Turkey of a Russian Su-24 bomber.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151201/1031051313/russia-ships-turkey-submarine.html#ixzz3t4lWYL3Q

    Militarov
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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:30 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    artjomh wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Re my quote above. Helicopters are probably not classed as 'airplanes' hence a 'Mistral' would be OK.
    cannot pass warships solely designed to carry airplanes through Turkish Straits.

    The convention actually says "aircraft", not "airplanes", so helicopters, UAV, target drones fall under that definition.

    However, Mistral would be safe, since it's primary purpose is amphibious landing of tanks and marines, with launching of aircraft being secondary purpose.

    Convention only bans outright ships whose SOLE purpose is carrying aircraft and which displace over 15K tons.

    I know that the Kiev Class Pr 1143 were able to pass the Bosphorus as they were classified as 'aircraft-carrying cruisers" and were principally surface strike vessels with helicopters and a secondary VTOL wing, but what was the intention for the Orel Ulyanovsk Pr 1143.7?  She was clearly going to be a "conventional" carrier since AFAIK she only had a very nominal complement of heavy AShMs, so under the terms of the convention, how did the USSR plan to get her to reach the Northern or Pacific fleet bases?

    They were supposed to be built in Nikolajevo and then transfered to the Northen/Pacific fleets, but they would not be able to join Black Sea fleet after leaving though strait. Noone can stop you from building Death Star inside Black Sea if you are pleased Smile

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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  Militarov on Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:30 pm

    George1 wrote:i have read some time in a greek tv chanell discussion that Turkey has the right to close the straits to all ships in case they are on war

    They do, however they are not in war. If they want to close it they have to declare war to Russia or Bulgaria, Romania...Georgia..

    JohninMK
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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:45 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    artjomh wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Re my quote above. Helicopters are probably not classed as 'airplanes' hence a 'Mistral' would be OK.
    cannot pass warships solely designed to carry airplanes through Turkish Straits.

    The convention actually says "aircraft", not "airplanes", so helicopters, UAV, target drones fall under that definition.

    However, Mistral would be safe, since it's primary purpose is amphibious landing of tanks and marines, with launching of aircraft being secondary purpose.

    Convention only bans outright ships whose SOLE purpose is carrying aircraft and which displace over 15K tons.

    I know that the Kiev Class Pr 1143 were able to pass the Bosphorus as they were classified as 'aircraft-carrying cruisers" and were principally surface strike vessels with helicopters and a secondary VTOL wing, but what was the intention for the Orel Ulyanovsk Pr 1143.7?  She was clearly going to be a "conventional" carrier since AFAIK she only had a very nominal complement of heavy AShMs, so under the terms of the convention, how did the USSR plan to get her to reach the Northern or Pacific fleet bases?

    They were supposed to be built in Nikolajevo and then transfered to the Northen/Pacific fleets, but they would not be able to join Black Sea fleet after leaving though strait. Noone can stop you from building Death Star inside Black Sea if you are pleased Smile
    Some classes of ships were granted a one way pass like I think carriers out but not in and submarines out but not in unless they are new, just bought or been repaired.

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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  marat on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:30 pm

    Rostov-on-Don is in the straits now, so no transfer throught internal chanells.

    JohninMK
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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:40 pm

    marat wrote:Rostov-on-Don is in the straits now, so no transfer throught internal chanells.
    That is basically a one way trip for it. The Turks were notified some time ago that it would pass in December 2015 (see early posts in this thread).

    Under the rules it now can't leave the Black Sea through the Bosphorus unless it is for pre-arranged repair.

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    Re: Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:21 pm

    NATO buildup in Black Sea violates Montreux Convention — Russian deputy

    NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said earlier on Wednesday that NATO would continue adapting and building up its military capabilities in the Black Sea region

    MOSCOW, February 10 /TASS/. Russia’s former Black Sea Fleet commander Vladimir Komoyedov warned NATO on Wednesday that the 1936 Montreux Convention restricted the time of stay of foreign warships in the Black Sea.

    NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said earlier on Wednesday that NATO would continue adapting and building up its military capabilities in the Black Sea region, including its naval forces, intelligence means and possibilities for redeploying reinforcements.

    "First of all, the Black Sea is a closed theatre. It is an internal sea, in fact, which is connected to the Mediterranean Sea by straits," Komoyedov told TASS on Wednesday in response to Stoltenberg’s words.

    "There are rules of use and there is the Montreux Declaration, which specifies the duration of stay [of foreign warships in the Black Sea]," Komoyedov said adding that the warships of non-Black Sea states could stay there no longer than 21 days.

    "Territorially, it [NATO] will certainly build up its forces - in Turkey, in Bulgaria and in Romania," Komoyevov, who heads the Russian State Duma Defense Committee, said.

    He agreed that NATO would certainly wish to strengthen and reinforce its Black Sea group. "However, it does not mean that 20, 30 or 50 warships are going to appear there," the deputy explained.

    "We have enough forces capable of monitoring the situation and passing decisions depended on the situation," Komoyedov added.

    He said it was too early to speak about a naval balance in the Black Sea. "We still need time to create this balance. A lot of things need to be built, replaced and repaired," Komoyedov said when speaking about Russian naval forces.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/855842


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