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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

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    PapaDragon
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:13 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:Now they openly admitted it. Only Western bank is able to buy the privatized Ukrainian state company.

    Ukrainia for sale. Now.

    https://eadaily.com/news/2015/08/06/k-privatizacii-na-ukraine-kiev-dopustit-tolko-zapadnye-banki

    Yugoslavia 2.0 eh PapaDragon?

    .........

    Yup, pretty much... lol1

    Although we need to give Ukrainians some credit here. You see, reaching certain level of non-development is not as easy as it looks. Take Serbia for example:

    Over the course of the whole decade we had several wars (one was against freakin' NATO!!!), economic collapse, total political and economic isolation, North Korea level of sanctions and hyperinflation that made Weimar Germany look like Switzerland. Plus usual EU/USA economic robbery afterwards.

    And yet, even with ''head start'' that big that we had, it took Ukrainians less than a year to make Serbia look like Sweden!!!

    I'm telling you guys, those Ukrainians have some powerful kung-fu! respekt lol1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:37 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:''Invasion! Russian Agricultural Machinery Takes Over Fields of DPR, LPR''

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150806/1025457062.html

    My family used to keep an USSR electric iron. Probably that is a proof about Russian invasion into Vietnam. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    Did Russia "invade" anyone of you ? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    I just found three cans of Russian fish in my fridge... darn!!! angry

    Well, I for one welcome our new Russian overlords. russia

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:19 pm

    Military parade for Ukraine independance day on 24 August is cancelled. As the article notes, it shows that ukrops are very stretched and lost a hell of a lot of equipment last summer. It could also mean that they know they will not have any equipment spare for a parade as it will all be in action by that date.... http://cassad.net/ukraina/novosti-ukrainy/15993-ukraina-otmenila-voennyy-parad-24-avgusta.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Flagship Victory on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:27 pm

    2 Maidan soldiers KIA 7 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:33 pm


    ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam ''Mythbuster'' Savage

    ''Challenge Accepted: Kiev Ready to Live Without Russian Gas Over Winter''

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150807/1025496796.html

    pwnd pwnd pwnd

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Ghoster on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:53 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Military parade for Ukraine independance day on 24 August is cancelled. As the article notes, it shows that ukrops are very stretched and lost a hell of a lot of equipment last summer. It could also mean that they know they will not have any equipment spare for a parade as it will all be in action by that date.... http://cassad.net/ukraina/novosti-ukrainy/15993-ukraina-otmenila-voennyy-parad-24-avgusta.html
    I really doubt there will be any offensive by Kiev.

    All signs really point to Novorossiya being forced to capitulate under pressure. So it wouldn't be logical for Kiev to interrupt that and restart a full scale war.

    Kiev junta will regain border control in Donbass just days after the local elections as per the Minsk agreements, in a few months time.

    Russian officials stated numerous times how much they support Ukraine's territorial integrity and that Putin fully supported all the agreements listed in the Minsk paper when he signed it. It really seems that things are moving in that direction right now.

    I can't really interpret the widespread silence in response to recent Ukrainian attacks on civilians in any other way.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  whir on Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:56 pm

    Ghoster wrote:I really doubt there will be any offensive by Kiev.
    Then why spend incredible amounts of resources into amassing hardware, supplies and manpower across the frontline? "Just in case" or "for the sake of it" are not valid explanations.

    Ghoster wrote:All signs really point to Novorossiya being forced to capitulate under pressure. So it wouldn't be logical for Kiev to interrupt that and restart a full scale war.
    It simply can't capitulate at this stage.

    Ghoster wrote:Kiev junta will regain border control in Donbass just days after the local elections as per the Minsk agreements, in a few months time.
    Not gonna happen without Kiev's political compromise.

    Ghoster wrote:Russian officials stated numerous times how much they support Ukraine's territorial integrity and that Putin fully supported all the agreements listed in the Minsk paper when he signed it. It really seems that things are moving in that direction right now.
    Moscow supports Ukraine's territorial integrity because NR is Kiev's political opposition. Minks-2 is stagnant and there's no going forward until Kiev starts real political reforms.

    Ghoster wrote:I can't really interpret the widespread silence in response to recent Ukrainian attacks on civilians in any other way.
    The sad truth is that no one cares outside of the region and the fact that we're in Summer and Europe is in autopilot until September.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Ghoster on Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:45 pm

    whir wrote:It simply can't capitulate at this stage.
    Withdrawing equipment allowed by Minsk agreements from the front line was only step one.

    Not gonna happen without Kiev's political compromise.
    As long as one sided gestures of goodwill happen towards Kiev, I'm certain that won't be necessary. Kiev is shelling Gorlovka every day, and yet "peace negotiations" still continue. It's clear that Kiev doesn't need to do anything.

    Moscow supports Ukraine's territorial integrity because NR is Kiev's political opposition.
    So would you say that Russia is supporting Kiev more than Novorossiya? Russian government certainly didn't threaten junta with sanctions or condemn its actions recently.

    Minks-2 is stagnant and there's no going forward until Kiev starts real political reforms.
    Local elections are still planned to take place in October-November and I don't remember Kiev making any concessions for this to happen.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:45 pm

    IMF's Man in Kiev Partied in Venice with Oligarch on Eve of IMF Mission to Ukraine

    The IMF steps in it again.

    Sees no impropriety with their country chief partying with rapaciously corrupt oligarch who is a direct beneficiaries of IMF funds (Victor Pinchuk)
    Has no problem with their country chief demonstrating publicly for politically tendentious causes backed by same oligarch involving obfuscation of the murder of journalists
    Oblivious to the fact that same oligarch is at heart of huge influence peddling scandal in the current US presidential campaign (Clinton Foundation)




    http://russia-insider.com/en/kiev-imf-chief-was-partying-oligarch-venice-eve-crucial-imf-mission-ukraine/ri9124

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  whir on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:37 pm

    Ghoster wrote:Withdrawing equipment allowed by Minsk agreements from the front line was only step one.
    The distances to fixed positions can be covered in minutes, that's why it's a goodwill gesture. The withdrawal creates more problems for UAF than to NAF just by spoiling most of the surveillance work done in previous months.

    Ghoster wrote:As long as one sided gestures of goodwill happen towards Kiev, I'm certain that won't be necessary. Kiev is shelling Gorlovka every day, and yet "peace negotiations" still continue. It's clear that Kiev doesn't need to do anything.
    If Kiev doesn't need to do anything then why the effort in the first place? Kiev needs a military solution not a political one.

    Ghoster wrote:So would you say that Russia is supporting Kiev more than Novorossiya? Russian government certainly didn't threaten junta with sanctions or condemn its actions recently.
    No, I would say that Moscow is trying to avoid alienating Ukrainian population while supporting NR and leaving non popular moves for Kiev.

    Ghoster wrote:Local elections are still planned to take place in October-November and I don't remember Kiev making any concessions for this to happen.
    They don't need to, those elections are made to legitimise DNR and LNR politically.

    - - - -

    Supposedly this batch of documents have been obtained by Ukrainian hackers that have hacked Pushilin's laptop.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:06 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:''Invasion! Russian Agricultural Machinery Takes Over Fields of DPR, LPR''

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150806/1025457062.html

    My family used to keep an USSR electric iron. Probably that is a proof about Russian invasion into Vietnam. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    Did Russia "invade" anyone of you ? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    USSR electric iron?

    Can you post a pic? I am curious to see if it is like the one I used to use.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:33 pm

    whir wrote:If Kiev doesn't need to do anything then why the effort in the first place? Kiev needs a military solution not a political one.

    It would be fine with a political one as long as it gets a de-facto surrender from the other side.

    whir wrote:No, I would say that Moscow is trying to avoid alienating Ukrainian population while supporting NR and leaving non popular moves for Kiev.

    The Ukrainian population is already alienated thanks to the constant anti-Russian propaganda and the passivity of the Kremlin and its proxies in the Donbass alienates the remaining Donbass population.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Ruthenius on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:56 pm

    Recently Avakov disbanded road police in Nikolaev and put some NatiGuard lads as interims. Their leader, some Panchenko guy, shows locals who is boss, since 02:10

    You are lucky if you don't know Russian, this cannot be unseen Suspect


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:08 pm

    Ruthenius wrote:Recently Avakov disbanded road police in Nikolaev and put some NatiGuard lads as interims. Their leader, some Panchenko guy, shows locals who is boss, since 02:10

    You are lucky if you don't know Russian, this cannot be unseen Suspect


    Jesus, I thought he was going to shoot him. Sad

    whir
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  whir on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:18 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:It would be fine with a political one as long as it gets a de-facto surrender from the other side.
    Sure, but it's not gonna happen.

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:The Ukrainian population is already alienated thanks to the constant anti-Russian propaganda and the passivity of the Kremlin and its proxies in the Donbass alienates the remaining Donbass population.
    You're giving propaganda too much credit.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  auslander on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:21 pm

    Ruthenius wrote:Recently Avakov disbanded road police in Nikolaev and put some NatiGuard lads as interims. Their leader, some Panchenko guy, shows locals who is boss, since 02:10

    You are lucky if you don't know Russian, this cannot be unseen Suspect

    And people wonder why we did what we did last year. What you see is the real face of Ukraine today, this happens every day everywhere. By law the thugs can take anything you own including your car or truck, house or flat, 'for the war effort'. Needless to say, almost everything taken is promptly sold, often with no documents. Anarchy, pure and simple. I find it difficult to have sympathy for a lot of the ukes, too many of them were all for jumping on maidan and killing civilians in Novorossiya.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:55 pm

    Been a horror in Donetsk, one that has mercifully been very rare until now. In Petrovsky district three boys, 7, 12 and 13 have been injured by a ukrops shell they found. They had taken it home and it exploded. All alive but one has lost both legs, another an arm and a leg and injuries to the third are not yet known. https://vk.com/gorlowka?w=wall-66833222_1025396

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  whir on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:49 pm

    ГТРК ЛНР wrote:STRC LNR.Glava LC visited antiaircraft battalion mechanized infantry brigade of the Army Corps of HM LC

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:16 am

    whir wrote:
    ГТРК ЛНР wrote:STRC LNR.Glava LC visited antiaircraft battalion mechanized infantry brigade of the Army Corps of HM LC

    This criminal needs to be hang ASAP What a Face

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:37 am


    Decent article, good for reposting...

    ''Can the United States Stop a War With Russia?

    Both sides need to try to see the other's point of view''



    http://observer.com/2015/08/can-the-united-states-stop-a-war-with-russia/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:37 am

    Ivan Katchanovski
    4 hrs · Edited ·

    Criminal justice: A Lutsk judge has been charged by the Security Service of Ukraine with falsifying court decisions in property cases. This is the same judge, named Vitalii Kovtunenko, who openly falsified his court decision and deprived me ownership of my land plot, on which my house in Ukraine was located. But the real reason for these charges stem from his decisions against "EuroMaidan" activists. An upper court overturned his ruling, but other judges in Lutsk and Ukraine issued on the orders from the higher ups similarly falsified decisions de facto depriving me my personal property, this land plot, and the house, which I inherited from my mother and used to conduct my research in Ukraine during previous summers. Following political directives, the judges simply ignored witnesses and documents that I and my lawyers provided and reversed earlier decisions in the same very cases that confirmed my ownership of the house and the land.

    In addition to other evidence of political nature of these court decisions, I learned recently about a direct involvement of Iryna Konstankevych, a powerful Lutsk politician, in seizures of my house and land with help of falsified court cases. This politician heads an influential faction in the Lutsk city council and also occupies a top position at the local university. She is a designated representative in Lutsk of a Volyn oligarch, who was the member of the Ukrainian parliament and then headed the Odesa regional administration until May of this year. She directed a foundation of this oligarch and financed members of the Right Sector of the Volyn Region in the neo-Nazi-led Azov battalion/regiment. Her personal link to the case explains involvement of Mykola Sorokopud, the head of the Volyn regional association of lawyers. Sorokopud is her husband, and he was the lawyer in all these cases concerning my property, even though he specializes in criminal cases. He was personally involved in falsifying these court decisions, specifically the land decision issued by the judge, who now faces criminal charges for similar actions. This judge and a few other judges basically copied and pasted in their decisions what Sorokopud wrote. A Ukrainian specialized high court in Kyiv refused to overturn the Lutsk court decisions by basically ruling that the falsification of these decisions, specifically evidence on which they were based, is not their concern. This high court ruling suggests political interference at a much higher level. My house and personal property in Ukraine continue to be damaged and stolen with impunity, since the local authorities simply ignore all letters by my lawyers on my behalf. I was not able to go there for research and vacation this summer for the first time in nearly 20 years.

    http://zik.ua/ua/news/2015/08/06/skandalnogo_lutskogo_suddyu_pidozryuyut_u_dvoh_zlochynah_613943


    Ivan Katchanovski
    3 hrs · Edited ·


    US newspapers now print claims that Karkoc joined the Ukrainian Self-Defence Legion aka 31-st security police battalion to defend Ukraine against the Nazis. This unit was organized by the SD (the security agency of the Nazi SS) and the Melnyk faction of the OUN in Volhynia in 1943, and it carried out massacres of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainians.


    Germany won't continue criminal case against Minneapolis man allegedly linked to Nazi atrocities

    http://www.startribune.com/germany-won-t-continue-criminal-case-against-minneapolis-man-allegedly-linked-to-nazi-atrocities/320351001/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:12 am

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:USSR electric iron?

    Can you post a pic? I am curious to see if it is like the one I used to use.

    My sincerely sorry, pal. We lost it for quite a time.

    But it's the truth Russian/USSR stuffs used to be something quite popular for many Vietnamese family.

    =============
    =============

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam ''Mythbuster'' Savage

    ''Challenge Accepted: Kiev Ready to Live Without Russian Gas Over Winter''

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150807/1025496796.html

    pwnd pwnd pwnd

    Of course they don't need Russian gas any more. They are going to buy European gas which is originated from Russia. lol1 lol1

    Or may be somehow Obama can share some of his Divine Shale Oil to Ukraina Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  auslander on Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:25 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Decent article, good for reposting...
    ''Can the United States Stop a War With Russia?
    Both sides need to try to see the other's point of view''

    http://observer.com/2015/08/can-the-united-states-stop-a-war-with-russia/

    I must agree with the premise of coming war. I can hear it, I can see it, I can smell it.

    The reality is this war started in August 1914 and has not stopped since, not for one minute. At times the fighting has been muted or has occurred in some far off and little known locale, but it has not stopped. Ever.

    It is not for me to intellectually delve in to the reasons and driving forces as to what has caused this century of war, this ongoing war is a fact and has driven world politics and economics for a century. I could care less if the next, and possibly final, act of this century long war is because of some Russian 'Soviet Mentality' aberration, a deeply mysterious 'zionist' plot, or an American 'rule the world' hegemonic desire. What does any of that matter to me or mine? I'll answer that question with an adamant 'ZERO'.

    For a century we, the 'ordinary workers and peasants', the 'great unwashed masses', the 'driving force of the American Dream', call us what you will, any one of scores of descriptions, have fought and died in our tens of millions. Vast areas of Europe, Middle East and Asia have been laid waste, untold treasure has been spent and lost on the machines of war, and peace, and for what? I'll answer that question, too. 'NOTHING'. We are exactly where we were in July and August of 1914 with the exception of we have honed our abilities to kill and destroy to a fine art with an impressive technology. The old empires have fallen and new empires have risen to replace them, the problem being nothing has changed but the names leading the empires.

    In the ten years I have been gone from the country that raised, nurtured and educated me I have seen the ideologies of both sides in this war harden. For some reason I attract children, puppies, kittens....and soldiers from both sides depending on where I am. I have no doubts that the soldiers of both sides very strongly believe in both their tasks and their ability to prevail, therefor this war will be to the death. Neither culture will survive the coming opening of actual hostilities, both cultures will have unimaginable destruction and death visited upon them and 'the world' as they know it will end. There is absolutely nothing we ordinary people can do to stop this coming active war, it is a given that it will happen and the endless pontifications of the 'politicians' and 'intellectuals' of both sides do not and will not mean squat in the end.

    Do not pine for us, do not worry of us. We, my family and I, well know what is coming and we well know that will happen to the city and region we live in. We go about our daily lives with no fear or trepidation, we don't jump at every sound, we don't worry or wonder why that clutch of Sukoi's took off at 04:00 on full afterburner and headed west, out over the Sea. It matters but it doesn't matter at all. We are at peace with our world, what will be will be. Our fates were never in our hands and never will be, just as you reading this never had your fates in your hands. Such is the pity, and the glory, of life.

    Auslander

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:12 am

    auslander wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Decent article, good for reposting...
    ''Can the United States Stop a War With Russia?
    Both sides need to try to see the other's point of view''

    http://observer.com/2015/08/can-the-united-states-stop-a-war-with-russia/

    I must agree with the premise of coming war. I can hear it, I can see it, I can smell it.

    The reality is this war started in August 1914 and has not stopped since, not for one minute. At times the fighting has been muted or has occurred in some far off and little known locale, but it has not stopped. Ever.

    It is not for me to intellectually delve in to the reasons and driving forces as to what has caused this century of war, this ongoing war is a fact and has driven world politics and economics for a century. I could care less if the next, and possibly final, act of this century long war is because of some Russian 'Soviet Mentality' aberration, a deeply mysterious 'zionist' plot, or an American 'rule the world' hegemonic desire. What does any of that matter to me or mine? I'll answer that question with an adamant 'ZERO'.  

    For a century we, the 'ordinary workers and peasants', the 'great unwashed masses', the 'driving force of the American Dream', call us what you will, any one of scores of descriptions, have fought and died in our tens of millions. Vast areas of Europe, Middle East and Asia have been laid waste, untold treasure has been spent and lost on the machines of war, and peace, and for what? I'll answer that question, too. 'NOTHING'. We are exactly where we were in July and August of 1914 with the exception of we have honed our abilities to kill and destroy to a fine art with an impressive technology. The old empires have fallen and new empires have risen to replace them, the problem being nothing has changed but the names leading the empires.

    In the ten years I have been gone from the country that raised, nurtured and educated me I have seen the ideologies of both sides in this war harden. For some reason I attract children, puppies, kittens....and soldiers from both sides depending on where I am. I have no doubts that the soldiers of both sides very strongly believe in both their tasks and their ability to prevail, therefor this war will be to the death. Neither culture will survive the coming opening of actual hostilities, both cultures will have unimaginable destruction and death visited upon them and 'the world' as they know it will end. There is absolutely nothing we ordinary people can do to stop this coming active war, it is a given that it will happen and the endless pontifications of the 'politicians' and 'intellectuals' of both sides do not and will not mean squat in the end.

    Do not pine for us, do not worry of us. We, my family and I, well know what is coming and we well know that will happen to the city and region we live in. We go about our daily lives with no fear or trepidation, we don't jump at every sound, we don't worry or wonder why that clutch of Sukoi's took off at 04:00 on full afterburner and headed west, out over the Sea. It matters but it doesn't matter at all. We are at peace with our world, what will be will be. Our fates were never in our hands and never will be, just as you reading this never had your fates in your hands. Such is the pity, and the glory, of life.

    Auslander
    Have you ever considered writing Auslander? Wink

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  auslander on Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:07 am

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t4182-never-the-last-one-a-novel-of-spetznaz

    Book #2 will start this fall, totally different from this one.

    Sponsored content

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:32 pm


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