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    Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

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    jhelb
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    Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  jhelb on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:04 pm

    As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

    In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

    Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


    My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:33 pm

    jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

    In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

    Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


    My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

    When could Russia take revenge? The USSR was busy trying to get even out of Brest-Litovsk during the attempted Revolution through Europe (Aka Soviet-Polish War of late 1919-1921) on a side note, the USSR is a great part of the Great Britain's decolonization woes (be the help to Turkey or after WW2/GPW its aid to the African nations in need of liberation).

    Furthermore, just look at the UK now...just a sad island clinging hard to stolen money and derelict political system...

    jhelb
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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  jhelb on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:40 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore, just look at the UK now...just a sad island clinging hard to stolen money and derelict political system...

    Good point. But note that with this stolen money they are punching above their weight the world over. Also, they have one of the best Intelligence Service in the world that will allow them to create trouble globally in the near future. Russia is on top of this list.Make no mistake about it.

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:43 pm

    jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

    In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

    Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


    My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?
    For those who do not know the story, this is one take

    Churchill hoped that he would be able to use the top secret "M Device", an exploding shell that released a highly toxic gas derived from arsenic. Foulkes called it "the most effective chemical weapon ever devised". The scientist, John Haldane, later described the impact of this new weapon: "The pain in the head is described as like that caused when fresh water gets into the nose when bathing, but infinitely more severe... accompanied by the most appalling mental distress and misery." Foulkes argued that the strategy should be "the discharge of gas on a stupendous scale". This was to be followed by "a British attack, bypassing the trenches filled with suffocating and dying men". However, the war came to an end in November, 1918, before this strategy could be deployed.

    After the First World War Churchill was appointed as Minister of War and Air by David Lloyd George. In May 1919, Churchill gave orders for the British troops to use chemical weapons during the campaign to subdue Afghanistan. When the India Office objected to the policy, Churchill replied: "The objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable. Gas is a more merciful weapon than high explosive shell and compels an enemy to accept a decision with less loss of life than any other agency of war. The moral effect is also very great. There can be no conceivable reason why it should not be resorted to."

    Winston Churchill now took the controversial decision to use the stockpiles of M Device (diphenylaminechloroarsine) against the Red Army who were involved in fighting against invading forces hostile to the Russian Revolution. He was supported in this by Sir Keith Price, the head of the chemical warfare, at Porton Down. He declared it to be the "right medicine for the Bolshevist" and the terrain would enable it to "drift along very nicely". Price agreed with Churchill that the use of chemical weapons would lead to a rapid collapse of the Bolshevik government in Russia: "I believe if you got home only once with the Gas you would find no more Bolshies this side of Vologda."

    In the greatest secrecy, 50,000 M Devices were shipped to Archangel, along with the weaponry required to fire them. Churchill sent a message to Major-General William Ironside: "Fullest use is now to be made of gas shell with your forces, or supplied by us to White Russian forces." He told Ironside that this "thermogenerator of arsenical dust that would penetrate all known types of protective mask". Churchill added that he would very much like the "Bolsheviks" to have it. Churchill also arranged for 10,000 respirators for the British troops and twenty-five specialist gas officers to use the equipment.

    Some one leaked this information and Churchill was forced to answer questions on the subject in the House of Commons on 29th May 1919. Churchill insisted that it was the Red Army who was using chemical warfare: "I do not understand why, if they use poison gas, they should object to having it used against them. It is a very right and proper thing to employ poison gas against them." His statement was untrue. There is no evidence of Bolshevik forces using gas against British troops and it was Churchill himself who had authorised its initial use some six weeks earlier.

    On 27th August, 1919, British Airco DH.9 bombers dropped these gas bombs on the Russian village of Emtsa. According to one source: "Bolsheviks soldiers fled as the green gas spread. Those who could not escape, vomited blood before losing consciousness." Other villages targeted included Chunova, Vikhtova, Pocha, Chorga, Tavoigor and Zapolki. During this period 506 gas bombs were dropped on the Russians.

    Lieutenant Donald Grantham interviewed Bolshevik prisoners about these attacks. One man named Boctroff said the soldiers "did not know what the cloud was and ran into it and some were overpowered in the cloud and died there; the others staggered about for a short time and then fell down and died". Boctroff claimed that twenty-five of his comrades had been killed during the attack. Boctroff was able to avoid the main "gas cloud" but he was very ill for 24 hours and suffered from "giddiness in head, running from ears, bled from nose and cough with blood, eyes watered and difficulty in breathing."

    Major-General William Ironside told David Lloyd George that he was convinced that even after these gas attacks his troops would not be able to advance very far. He also warned that the White Army had experienced a series of mutinies (there were some in the British forces too). Lloyd George agreed that Ironside should withdraw his troops. This was completed by October. The remaining chemical weapons were considered to be too dangerous to be sent back to Britain and therefore it was decided to dump them into the White Sea.


    http://spartacus-educational.com/spartacus-blogURL5.html

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:04 pm

    jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

    In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

    Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


    My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

    The bolsheviks were soon about to use poison gas against russian peasants themselves. Not to mention murdering scores by more "conventional" means. Nobody in the bolshevik leadership cared one jot about the lives of innocent russians. They were a bunch of murderers themselves.

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:09 am

    Amusing that the Bolsheviks are still considered a murderous regime even today, yet the sins of the British and Germans and Japanese and Americans are forgotten... it is a very powerful thing to write history... shame it is so badly misused in the west to colour everything...


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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:14 pm

    Cucumber Khan wrote:
    jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

    In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

    Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


    My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

    The bolsheviks were soon about to use poison gas against russian peasants themselves. Not to mention murdering scores by more "conventional" means. Nobody in the bolshevik leadership cared one jot about the lives of innocent russians. They were a bunch of murderers themselves.

    It's funny because the Tambov Rebellion had it been quelled by the Tsarist authorities would have meant the whole population displaced and killed not "thousands" and Northern Russia? Tambov is Northern Russia now? And it is also funny because the guys who rebelled against the Bolo's were Bolo's themselves. Nevermind the fact that it became very clear that the War Communism measures were ultimately the only fit ones to actually stay independent, something the said peasants, like always, saw less relevant than their local economy. Personally, being Albanian and having had my own area suffer from out of touch, archaic Village elders back in the Ottoman times I couldn't agree more with dekulakisation and the process of generally having a self-counscient population. While the Tambov rebellion was a far more grey matter than Bolo's bad, Anto's good, the crux is that the underpinnings of that crisis were the fact that the Russuian peasantry was burden to the level of development of the whole nation. And the fact that kulaks tried time and again to break the equality line by holding back grain, currency and manpower is yet to be disproved by any historian. The fact that the westerners don't like to talk about the real issue peasantry posed to most of them during the 18th-19th modernisation period (and for some like Italy, Portugal or even Bavaria well into the 20th century) is a telltale that the peasant problem has always been a burden.

    At the end the violence and monstruosity of the Bolo's was a distinctive feature of how the federal-local economical interest dispute plaid out everywhere (hint think about the US). A full scale civil war will all the state of the art inputs you had then.


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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Amusing that the Bolsheviks are still considered a murderous regime even today, yet the sins of the British and Germans and Japanese and Americans are forgotten... it is a very powerful thing to write history... shame it is so badly misused in the west to colour everything...
    To say that the Bolsheviks were murderers does not mean denying that the foreign occupiers also were.

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  NationalRus on Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:08 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Amusing that the Bolsheviks are still considered a murderous regime even today, yet the sins of the British and Germans and Japanese and Americans are forgotten... it is a very powerful thing to write history... shame it is so badly misused in the west to colour everything...
    To say that the Bolsheviks were murderers does not mean denying that the foreign occupiers also were.

    true, true

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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:31 am

    To say that the Bolsheviks were murderers does not mean denying that the foreign occupiers also were.

    And to say the commies did very bad things is not to say they didn't do very good things too... but the funny thing is that the western record of history is that all communists in Russia were as brutal as Stalin and never did anything good, while the west was a force for good and always did good things. though sometime they did very bad things for the best of reasons... like murdering millions of Vietnamese to save them from communism, when in fact their problem was actually colonialism via Europe.


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    Re: Why Didn't Russia Avenge War Crimes Committed By Churchill ?

    Post  Godric on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:22 pm

    in many parts of the world the Union flag is referred to the "Butcher's Apron" in large sways of Africa and Asia ... this is well deserved after all Hitler got his idea for concentration camps from the British empire during their boar war campaign ... Britain (initially England) among several other European states enslaved almost the entire African continent ... the UK is a crumbling state struggling to remain united ... it has 2 or 3 years at most before the inevitable break up of the UK as it exists today ... the media is full of a 2nd referendum in Scotland

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