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    Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:01 pm

    How many were in reserve before being brought back to flying status? Pl. provide references. Most of them were probably used for cannibalization, made into drone targets, sold abroad, or recycled for scrap. The same things happen at DMAFB! http://www.airplaneboneyards.com/davis-monthan-afb-amarg-airplane-boneyard.htm
    This AN-22 was parked for 7 years & returned to airworthy status in February of 2016 in Ukraine: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/back-in-the-air-tracking-the-antonov-an-22s-first-commercial-flight-in-over-7-years/
    if they could do it, so can Russia.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:01 am

    Li-2 was a copy of DC-3

    The Li-2 was a licence produced DC-3... paid for and legal.

    Just check the wiki page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisunov_Li-2

    4 engine IL-106 is to replace the IL-76, not directly replace AN-22 &/AN-124,

    The 80-90 ton capacity Il-106 was intended to replace the An-22.

    B-29s had emergency landings in the RFE while USSR was neutral vs. Japan & and interned there.

    Like I said... B-29s were handed to them.

    F-15 was influenced by MiG-25, not copied from it.

    The F-15 was more a copy than anything else... it was a copy of what they thought the MiG-25 was. It copied the layout, which had never been used by an American aircraft previously...

    Their roles are different & Belenko defected in 1975, well after the F-15 design started.

    They copied the layout from photos... no previous US aircraft design had twin engines side by side and the same layout as the MiG.

    They copied it.


    Neither AN-22s nor AN-124s were ever produced in what is now Russia- both were made in what is now Ukraine; any new Russian made AN-124 will also need to have different engines (not Ukrainian made) that may or may not work well- for the above reason

    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviastar-SP

    You might want to tell the Russians they never made An-124s....

    And they have new engines in development that would be fine replacements...

    So should many C-130s, yet they are still being flown by many AFs & firefighters!

    This is not about being obsolete... it is about control of servicing and upgrades... the An-22 and An1124 are foreign aircraft designs... Russia needs Russian planes.

    if they could do it, so can Russia.

    They probably could but why revive an ancient foreign aircraft when they could develop a put into production a new aircraft that has better capabilities and is Russian?


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:41 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    eehnie wrote:If Russia has as low production of transport aircrafts and helicopters is because Russia needs not more.

    Russia is using the auxiliary air fleet inherited from the Soviet Union as must be done. A good number of the exhausted aircrafts in active service are being replaced still today by non-exhausted aircrafts of the same type that have been years in the reserve and must be used first until to be also exhausted.

    The replacement with new aircrafts and helicopters will be done when needed only with new and modern aircrafts and helicopters of the demanded/succesful cathegories. And will not be done with aircrafts and helicopters of the unsuccessful/obsolete cathegories.

    How many were in reserve before being brought back to flying status? Pl. provide references. Most of them were probably used for cannibalization, made into drone targets, sold abroad, or recycled for scrap. The same things happen at DMAFB! http://www.airplaneboneyards.com/davis-monthan-afb-amarg-airplane-boneyard.htm
    This AN-22 was parked for 7 years & returned to airworthy status in February of 2016 in Ukraine: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/back-in-the-air-tracking-the-antonov-an-22s-first-commercial-flight-in-over-7-years/
    if they could do it, so can Russia.

    Taking as example the fleet of the An-22 in active service today, a 60% of the current aircrafts in active servece returned from the reserve to active service in recent years.

    These returned to active service after being years in the reserve:
    https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/586 (returned after 12 years in the reserve)
    https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/589 (returned after 9 years in the reserve)
    https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/594 (returned 2 times after 2 and 4 years in the reserve)

    And these not:
    https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/568
    https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/594

    This seems to be a common practice. In the 1990s and 2000s a good number of aircrafts that were not exhausted have been in the reserve, and when others that remained in active service reached worse condition, these aircrafts returned, and are returning, while the units that have been in active service these years are the units canibalized.

    In the case of the An-22, likely the potential of return is exhausted, but not in other cases, like the An-124 and the Il-76.

    It is clear that the An-22 will not be in active service for long time, but until now it has not been problem to replace them with other aircrafts of the same or different size.  While I think it is positive and useful to have a new model of transport aircraft of the size cathegory of the An-22, there not really a hurry to have it before the An-22 totally disappear because other aircrafts will do the job of the remaining units of the An-22 when retired. In the last decades decens of units of An-22 have been replaced in its job by aircrafts of the same or different size when they have been retired. The same is likely to happen with the lasts.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:25 pm

    Right, but if they had more $ they could build new upgraded AN-22s that could augment other planes. Yes, the Li-2 was built under license but had many changes from the original DC-3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisunov_Li-2#Design_and_development To me, copying means 100% exact replica. If the general layout is replicated it's not an exact copy. I misstated that Li-2 was a DC-3 copy. The F-15 isn't an exact copy of MiG-25, just like the SU-24 vs. F-111, B-1 vs. TU-160, TU-134 vs. DC-9, IL-86 vs. B-707, TU-144 vs. Concord, DC-6 vs. IL-18, VC-10 vs. IL-62, C-130 vs. AN-12, A-400M vs. AN-70, etc. Most, if not all, C-130s are too old now to be endlessly upgraded w/o compromising structural integrity & safety. It's time to ground & inspect all active birds & replace the bad 1s with those in mothballs- I saw dozens of them at DMAFB- until more C-130Js are built.
    All in all for the whole period of the existence of the Ulyanovsk Aviation Industrial Complex 36 An-124 aircraft have been manufactured. http://www.aviastar-sp.ru/en/products_and_services/services/dorabotki_i_modernizatsiya/
    I forgot about it, but it would be cheaper & easier to build more AN-22s since they know to build more complex AN-124 & IL-476! The IL-76s were being produced in Tashkent, Uzbek SSR, & then its production moved to the RF. So, it was also "a foreign made" according to your logic. Now its IL-476 derivative is produced on the same plant; the IL-106 follow on is still a paper plane. If they can't afford all 39 of IL-476 now, how many IL-106 will be ordered?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:16 pm

    I forgot about it, but it would be cheaper & easier to build more AN-22s since they know to build more complex AN-124 & IL-476! The IL-76s were being produced in Tashkent, Uzbek SSR, & then its production moved to the RF. So, it was also "a foreign made" according to your logic. Now its IL-476 derivative is produced on the same plant; the IL-106 follow on is still a paper plane. If they can't afford all 39 of IL-476 now, how many IL-106 will be ordered?

    It is not about pride... it is about design ownership... what if Russia builds 50 An-22s and the Ukraine takes them to the European court for illegal copying of their product and demands 10 billion in compensation... the European court would love to find in their favour and give them 100 billion in compensation.

    The Il-106 is a new design designed to replace the An-22, so why not build it instead of an An-22?

    If they needed 200 Il-476s now they would find the money. The fact that they don't want to spend the money to get all 39 straight away suggests the current need for that class of aircraft is not really that urgent and could be better spent elsewhere... like in a different weight class.

    Existing Il-76s can be upgraded so there is no super urgent reason to make lots right now.

    The An-22 on the other hand is pretty much leaving service and a replacement for it would be rather more use.

    Equally the An-12 is getting long in the tooth and needs replacement too.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:20 pm

    Good points. The workhorse IL-76 fleet is also a source of 10 used planes sold to PRC instead of the new that were never built in Tashkent.
    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2012-11-30/china-orders-il-76s-it-awaits-il-476s-1 https://www.upi.com/Analysis-Sino-Russia-Il-76-row-Part-1/34371213281736/
    Also, new A-100s & IL-78s tankers must be produced to replace the older models. They are betting on foreign sales as gov. orders aren't enough to make ends meet. There's no need for 50 new AN-22s, 15-20 max. would do, if there should be a need for them. $10B -100B in compensation is too big a figure; the RF can counter sue for $100M Ukraine got for AN-70 & other things. IL-214s will replace AN-12s & AN-72s , just like KC-390 will replace many C-130s; IL-112s will replace AN-26s. http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-04-11/india-out-russia-continues-developing-il-214-transport http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/meet-the-embraer-kc-390-the-jet-powered-challenger-to-1649242405 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Air_Force#Future_of_the_Russian_Air_Force


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:04 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : add text, links)
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:07 am

    $10B -100B in compensation is too big a figure; the RF can counter sue for $100M Ukraine got for AN-70 & other things.

    The point is not the amount... the point is that in a european court Russia is not likely to win unless it has a water tight case, and in this case I don't think they would have a water tight case.

    Also, new A-100s & IL-78s tankers must be produced to replace the older models. They are betting on foreign sales as gov. orders aren't enough to make ends meet.

    The Il-76 has been very successful... even NATO countries lease them and use them for deployments of NATO forces... an upgraded new build version should be pretty successful too.

    There's no need for 50 new AN-22s, 15-20 max. would do, if there should be a need for them.

    Such a small number does not warrant the expense and time to put back into production.

    Better to wait and develop a unified design of twin, four and six engined aircraft family in the 80, 150, and 200+ ton payload capacity range to replace the An-22, An-124, and to provide services in the role the An-225 would have had for Russia if they had some.

    For the space industry an aircraft able to carry large objects on their backs is very valuable and worth the cost.

    IL-214s will replace AN-12s & AN-72s

    They certainly will, but it will take time.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:18 pm

    I doubt IL-106 financing issue will be resolved soon; they are a long way off before starting building the 1st prototype. If only 15-20 AN-22s are built, they would also produce new spares for them & most or all of the older 16 planes to keep them flying, so it would bring the total numbers to ~ 31-36, which would be adequate as a stop gap IMO.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Russian_military_aircraft They just restarted low rate production of IL-96s on gov. orders. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/il-96.htm http://www.rusaviainsider.com/vaso-build-two-il-96-300s-purportedly-russian-president/ http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2017-04-11/ilyushin-il-96-400m-widebody-taking-shape http://www.rusaviainsider.com/improved-ilyushin-il-96-airliner-to-fly-in-2019/ http://www.rusaviainsider.com/royal-flight-pegas-show-interest-il-96-400m-airliner/ https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/what-planes-will-russia-fly-if-boeing-and-airbus-ditched-over-sanctions-38787  If the PRC starts building AN-124/225s or their derivatives, why not sell some to Russia? Then the Aviastar can concentrate on those ILs & upgrading existing AN-124s.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:36 am

    I doubt IL-106 financing issue will be resolved soon; they are a long way off before starting building the 1st prototype.

    AFAIK the Il-106 was close to serial production... it was just engine testing and funding and from what I have read the engines were amazing... there was simply no funding to put them into production and even if they managed to produce them there was nothing for them to do as in the 1990s the Army wasn't doing very much at all that transport aircraft would be useful.
    Even if they had a full transport fleet right now the Syrian campaign would continue with ships because that is vastly cheaper and easier.

    If only 15-20 AN-22s are built, they would also produce new spares for them & most or all of the older 16 planes to keep them flying, so it would bring the total numbers to ~ 31-36, which would be adequate as a stop gap IMO.

    Only? There were less than 75 aircraft built of the type in the first place and they haven't been produced since the mid 1970s, and weren't made in Russia.

    What makes you think the factory that made them in the 1970s is still able to make anything?

    Better to let the plane die, transfer all the engines and spares to Bear units and build a new plane... the Il-106.

    If the PRC starts building AN-124/225s or their derivatives, why not sell some to Russia?

    Because investing money in Russian aircraft manufacturers is how they stay in business. Pissing money away to foreign countries is a great way to kill Russian aircraft companies.

    Then the Aviastar can concentrate on those ILs & upgrading existing AN-124s.

    Fuck An-124s, Russia needs to make Russian planes that suit her needs and get rid of foreign aircraft completely from their service.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:44 am

    They don't consider them completely foreign, and recently invited Antonov engineers & designers to RF to continue their school & work. Originally Antonov came from RSFR to Kiev a few decades ago. Nothing beats AN-124/225 as heavy cargo aircraft so far; RF lost so much to sanctions after Crimea's return that it won't make much difference if they loose another lawsuit. I don't think the yet to be build & tested IL-106 will be on a par with even basic AN-124 (it can be stretched & upgraded); replacing IL-76s & AN-22s is another matter. IL-106 maturation, once fielded, will take at least a decade or 2 to become = to AN-124 & its derivatives.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They don't consider them completely foreign, and recently invited Antonov engineers & designers to RF to continue their school & work. Originally Antonov came from RSFR to Kiev a few decades ago. Nothing beats AN-124/225 as heavy cargo aircraft so far; RF lost so much to sanctions after Crimea's return that it won't make much difference if they loose another lawsuit. I don't think the yet to be build & tested IL-106 will be on a par with even basic AN-124 (it can be stretched & upgraded); replacing IL-76s & AN-22s is another matter. IL-106 maturation, once fielded, will take at least a decade or 2 to become = to AN-124 & its derivatives.      

    Antanov is dead, get over it. Most acknowledge it but you. If you don't think so, go to keypublishing forums and ask what they think.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:08 am

    But Antonov people are still alive & can sell their expertise on the outside. Don't give me directions here, I don't need your smart suggestions!
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:12 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:But Antonov people are still alive & can sell their expertise on the outside.  Don't give me directions here, I don't need your smart suggestions!  

    You are grasping at last hope. I understand you. But sometimes it is best to just accept things for what it is.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:43 am

    They don't consider them completely foreign, and recently invited Antonov engineers & designers to RF to continue their school & work.

    They are no longer able to buy Antonov designs from the Ukraine, that relationship is over.

    They have made offers for specialists in the Ukraine to move to Russia and become Russian citizens but I doubt the idea is for one member of a family to move to Russia and send their income to the Ukraine to support the family living there.

    Originally Antonov came from RSFR to Kiev a few decades ago.


    The fact that Antonov is Russian means nothing.

    Nothing beats AN-124/225 as heavy cargo aircraft so far; RF lost so much to sanctions after Crimea's return that it won't make much difference if they loose another lawsuit.
    They don't have any An-225s so there is nothing to miss in that regard.

    With the An-124 they have enough to get by right now and can continue to use the ones they have but they wont last forever and they need something to replace them... their plans are for an aircraft family based around a new powerful engine with a twin, a quad, and a six engine family of aircraft.

    Once the engine is ready I don't see any reason not to go ahead with that plan... I am sure plenty of countries would buy their surplus aircraft when they become available...

    I don't think the yet to be build & tested IL-106 will be on a par with even basic AN-124 (it can be stretched & upgraded);

    The Il-106 fills a gap being created by the withdrawal of the An-22... it would be too small to replace the An-124 except for missions where the An-124 is too big to start with.

    IL-106 maturation, once fielded, will take at least a decade or 2 to become = to AN-124 & its derivatives.

    Why?

    The only derivative of the An-124 is the An-225 and although the Ukraine has said it wants to build more I can't see that happening now.

    There have been plenty of improvements in materials and design technology that a new Russian family of aircraft could benefit from and new engines could also benefit from the improvements too.

    As a stopgap the new engines could be fitted to An-124s to remove one reliance on the Ukraine in the shorter term.

    Further upgraded engine models could conceivably be fitted to Bears if they are still around in numbers that make it worth while.

    But Antonov people are still alive & can sell their expertise on the outside. Don't give me directions here, I don't need your smart suggestions!

    Some will go to Russia no doubt, but just as many will look to Airbus and Boeing... despite the language and cultural barriers of doing so.

    Tupolev and Ilyusion have plenty of gifted engineers too and supercomputers and new materials and engines to work with too.

    Russia has bent over backwards to keep ties with the Ukraine... continuing to use Ukrainian engines and parts and all they get is shit in return. It is the Ukraine that has cut off ties, so there is no point in looking in that direction for anything... Russia could cherry pick the best talent, but what happens if they turn out to be 5th columnists who just want to get back at Russia for whatever imaginary reason.

    Russia is better off designing new replacement aircraft, that they own and can produce on their own terms.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:29 pm

    ГП "Антонов" и российские предприятия стремятся сохранить и продолжить межгосударственную кооперацию в вопросах взаимных поставок узлов и агрегатов, направленную на сохранение производства и строительство новых самолетов семейства Ан-148/158/178. Воронежское акционерное самолетостроительное общество (ВАСО) может прекратить производство самолетов Ан-148, начиная с 2019 года. Такое судьбоносное решение о «консервации» проекта приняла Объединенная авиастроительная корпорация (ОАК), что следует из годового отчета. Руководство ОАК поручило воронежскому авиазаводу подготовить план мероприятий, необходимых для закрытия производства, минимизировать убытки и сохранить производственный персонал. В настоящее время руководством ВАСО ведутся переговоры о поставках самолетов Ан-148 в Индию, Анголу и Казахстан. Также интерес проявляют российские военные, которые планируют заменить 37 самолетов Ту-134А и Ту-134А-3 (1975-1983 года выпуска), активно используемые для перевозки высшего руководства и личного состава. Об интересе к закупкам самолетов Ан-148 в июне заявляли в руководстве авиации войск национальной гвардии Российской Федерации.http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2731920.html
    "AN-124 & its derivatives"- corr.: I meant "modifications". Time will tell- they hope to resume production later. Why spend $Ms organizing production of new designs in RF that will take decades to = or surpass Antonov? The TU-330 was proposed years ago but it's still a paper plane. The TU-334 prototype flew but it was never produced to replace the TU-134; the quote above has АN-148 as the only option. https://web.archive.org/web/20070208061312/http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=123 http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/tu-330.htm
    https://lenta.ru/news/2016/05/26/tu334/ They never built pure cargo planes; the Ilyushin had but who knows how long will it take for IL-112/214/106s to be tested, accepted & built in sufficient numbers?  https://www.rbth.com/defence/2015/07/21/russia_looks_to_modernize_indonesian_air_force_47883.html
    OTH, 8 AN-22s = 11 IL-476 in payload capacity. If 3 more AN-22s added to the 5 now active & kept flying for another decade or so, the shortage of 11 IL-476 won't be felt at all.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:45 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:[.................
    OTH, 8 AN-22s = 11 IL-476 in payload capacity. If 3 more AN-22s added to 5 active & kept flying for another decade or so, the shortage of 11 IL-476 won't be felt at all.

    You are totally right, An-22 is the way of the future.

    And while they are at it Russia could restart production of this thing to fill in medium transport segment:




    Now that would be temporary solution until development of this bad boy is complete:


    You make perfect sense there dude, keep it up!!!
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:04 pm

    Well, those vintage AN-2s are still being modernized! https://sputniknews.com/russia/201707071055315610-russia-plane-modernization-composite-materials-characteristics/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-2
    “The reason the An-2 still flies is that there is really no other aircraft like it,” says aviation writer Bernie Leighton, who has flown in an An-2 in Belarus. “If you need an aircraft that can carry 10 soldiers, people or goats, that can take off from anywhere and land anywhere ‒ it is either that or a helicopter. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150415-the-plane-that-can-fly-backwards
    The AN-22s are "the way of the present" until there is some other plane ready to replace it! If they don't start modernizing them now as a hedge against future delays/cancellations, they'll be sorry later they didn't refurbish &/ build more. Just a thought!
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:14 pm

    Why spend $Ms organizing production of new designs in RF that will take decades to = or surpass Antonov?

    There is nothing magic about antonovs.

    With similar engines the performance of new aircraft should be better as most in service Antonovs are not new aircraft... the An-22 is a 1960s design, the An-12 older and the An-124 newer but not by that much.

    Investing money in Russian companies to build Russian transports that can be sold world wide on the international market makes enormous sense... vastly more than trying to revive ancient foreign designs which they definitely would not be able to sell on the international market.

    The Il-112V will fly next year... it will replace the light antonov turboprops... the AN-24 and An-26, and will also likely replace other foreign types like the ATR etc.

    The Il-214 will replace the An-12 which is in service in large numbers. Other replacements are not that urgent... but a replacement for all Antonovs is needed.

    The TU-334 prototype flew but it was never produced to replace the TU-134; the quote above has АN-148 as the only option.

    No, the An-148 is not an option. The Superjet 100 from Sukhoi would make more sense in that size and weight class.

    The AN-22s are "the way of the present" until there is some other plane ready to replace it! If they don't start modernizing them now as a hedge against future delays/cancellations, they'll be sorry later they didn't refurbish &/ build more. Just a thought!

    Money would be better spent on a replacement for the An-22 than wasted to keep them flying longer.

    Very simply the An-22 is an 80 ton capacity transport, but that does not mean it is always carrying an 80 ton payload.

    Much of the time they carry a load from one place to another so it can go to that place to pick up something else... 30 ton payload one way to collect a 50 ton payload back.

    The fact remains when the An-22s are all gone the An-124 can do the same job... the only issue is that it will burn more fuel to do that job... so it is really a question of efficiency.

    The An-22 was a good size for the russian military as a lot of vehicles the Il-76 could not take the An-22 could take and it was not as expensive to use as the An-124.

    the new aircraft family will make the Russian military more efficient, but 90% of the time armour will be moved by train or ship anyway.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:17 pm

    Well, the SSJ-100 was rejected by the military for having many foreign made parts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#List_of_companies
    but the MChS & MVD (replacing Yak-40) uses them: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/72/b5/ce/72b5ce19efd1f0f5721879cc39a79040.jpg
    http://superjet100.info/airline:mes http://superjet100.info/news:565
    http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/sukhoi-plans-next-generation-superjet  http://tass.com/defense/956743
    The TU-204-500 & TU-214 aren't being considered as a candidate for TU-134 replacement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-204#Tu-204-500
    The  MC-21 and IL-114 have better commercial prospects & may have some military applications:
    http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines/russia-s-mc-21-and-il-114-win-new-orders-maks-air-show?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170720_AW-05_992&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_4&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=10983&utm_medium=email&elq2=9ce445563faa4e46901f46bd582acdb9
    http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ilyushin-il-114/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-114#Variants
    http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2017-07-14/8_956_wings.html?print=Y
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:58 am

    Well, the SSJ-100 was rejected by the military for having many foreign made parts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#List_of_companies
    but the MChS & MVD (replacing Yak-40) uses them:

    Which suggests the thing to do is not raise the dead aircraft or design something completely new from scratch, but to create all Russian components for the aircraft for the Russian military and other military forces around the world that are still allowed to buy Russian aircraft and might not be allowed to buy western kit... Iran, etc leaps to mind in this regard, but there are plenty of others who want sanction proof aircraft for both civil and military use.

    The MC-21 and IL-114 have better commercial prospects & may have some military applications:

    Military models of Il-114 and Il-112 and MS-21 should offer plenty of scope to replace quite a few Antonovs in Russias military fleet as well as other models that also need replacing like the Tu-154M etc.



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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:35 pm

    The AN-2 is being modernized in RF: https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170715/1498514437.html
    The AN-22 could follow it, if found feasible, regardless of it's Ukrainian origins. The ILs were 1st built in Uzbekistan but later in the RF. Ukraine is a terminally ill failing state like Iraq was before 4/03 & USSR was by 1991. https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/four-ukrainian-soldiers-killed-3-wounded-overnight-war-zone.html
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-separatists-malorussia-criticism-zakharchenko-plotnitsky-poroshenko/28623190.html
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:32 pm

    That's an An-2 by name due to design. It isn't an AN-2 at all but a whole new build using full composite frame.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:06 pm

    Using the brand name is a violation of intellectual/proprietary property laws. Antonov invoked it when RF planned to re-engine its AN-124s. If just 1 part of a new design is the same, it's still illegal produce it w/o a licence from the original designer/manufacturer. But they are going ahead with it; the AN-70 derivatives are being offered worldwide except to RF which paid $100M for its development. China reverse engineered many Soviet & American designs as they badly needed to circumvent embargoes. Ukraine is dying & very vulnerable. The bottom line: it's a liability like Crimea but in the long run the RF would have lost more if it didn't act to take it back.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:24 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Using the brand name is a violation of intellectual/proprietary property laws. Antonov invoked it when RF planned to re-engine its AN-124s. If just 1 part of a new design is the same, it's still illegal produce it w/o a licence from the original designer/manufacturer. But they are going ahead with it; the AN-70 derivatives are being offered worldwide except to RF which paid $100M for its development. China reverse engineered many Soviet & American designs as they badly needed to circumvent embargoes. Ukraine is dying & very vulnerable. The bottom line: it's a liability like Crimea but in the long run the RF would have lost more if it didn't act to take it back.  

    But as explained in this very forums if you paid attention, it isn't actually called AN-2. It is just an AN-2 design. BTW, Copyright laws have to be constantly updated over the years or they lose the right to the design. In this case, Kalashnikov keeps updating copyright laws on the AK design as an example so that others who do use the design, can be sued. Now Antonov isn't existent anymore thanks to the Ukrainian government, so there really isn't a whole lot they can do now.

    Name is called: TVS-2DTS. Not a pretty name I know.
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:34 pm

    So, there's no legal inheritor of Antonov? RF can still sue the new entity that took it over to get $100M back if AN-70 derivatives are exported. BTW, Russia is legal inheritor of the USSR & can cause a lot more legal problems to Kiev if it wanted to.

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