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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

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    Post  franco on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:58 pm

    Maidian and the neonazi's have been complaining for some time that the Regular Ukrainian Army has been selling weapons and ammo to the Donbas rebels. This and the previous weapons seizure this month may actually be that. They wouldn't be able to sell directly across the battlefront so shipping across the Russian border to be taken back into Novorus. Obviously the SBU or Border Guards, which have always been the most loyal military force in Ukraine to the cause, have clued in or got lucky. But who knows for sure?
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    Post  BKP on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:32 pm

    A Short List of Russian Successes Over the Past Few Months
    Russia is on a roll, but you would never know it reading the mainstream media
    Aleksandr Rodzhers,  Fri, Jul 24.
    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/short-list-russian-successes-over-past-few-months-q/ri8945

    Pretty good article from Russia Insider listing several recent Russian successes, both internal and geopolitical. Some items of particular note:

    9. LPR and DPR are now de-facto part of the ruble zone. While formally it’s a bi-currency zone, 84% of all transactions are conducted in rubles.

    10. LPR and DPR are developing their own banking system under joint oversight and in cooperation with South Ossetia. Once the process is complete, nobody will have to pay Kiev any taxes.

    11. DPR and LPR have established centralized military commands. Anarchy has been put down, all military units are now under firm control.

    12. DPR and LPR industry is being integrated with the Russian economy, dozens of firms are already working to fulfill Russian orders.
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    Post  whir on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:37 pm

    franco wrote:Maidian and the neonazi's have been complaining for some time that the Regular Ukrainian Army has been selling weapons and ammo to the Donbas rebels. This and the previous weapons seizure this month may actually be that. They wouldn't be able to sell directly across the battlefront so shipping across the Russian border to be taken back into Novorus. Obviously the SBU or Border Guards, which have always been the most loyal military force in Ukraine to the cause, have clued in or got lucky. But who knows for sure?
    There's no need to cross the border when you can just cross the right checkpoint, the problem is that after the Tornado fiasco and the reorganisation of the smuggling business several shipments of goods have been apprehended in the last few weeks (today the last one) so maybe the driver's map was not updated or someone want's to hike up the tariffs.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:58 pm

    Why would NAF need to buy arms from corrupt Ukrainian soldiers when Russia gives arms to NAF? Cool Ukraine's arms are pretty outdated dating back to the 1980s and no longer effective in modern warfare.
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:10 pm

    So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:19 pm

    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:22 pm

    whir wrote:
    franco wrote:Maidian and the neonazi's have been complaining for some time that the Regular Ukrainian Army has been selling weapons and ammo to the Donbas rebels. This and the previous weapons seizure this month may actually be that. They wouldn't be able to sell directly across the battlefront so shipping across the Russian border to be taken back into Novorus. Obviously the SBU or Border Guards, which have always been the most loyal military force in Ukraine to the cause, have clued in or got lucky. But who knows for sure?
    There's no need to cross the border when you can just cross the right checkpoint, the problem is that after the Tornado fiasco and the reorganisation of the smuggling business several shipments of goods have been apprehended in the last few weeks (today the last one) so maybe the driver's map was not updated or someone want's to hike up the tariffs.
    More likely the driver's wallet was not full enough.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:25 pm

    BKP wrote:A Short List of Russian Successes Over the Past Few Months
    Russia is on a roll, but you would never know it reading the mainstream media
    Aleksandr Rodzhers,  Fri, Jul 24.
    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/short-list-russian-successes-over-past-few-months-q/ri8945

    Pretty good article from Russia Insider listing several recent Russian successes, both internal and geopolitical. Some items of particular note:
    ...................................................
    .

    Russia Insider is by far the best source of articles and analysis on Russia and its policies in English language.

    I ran into them by accident a year ago. For very long time I thought that they are just a bunch of over-optimistic hacks but everything, and I man EVERYTHING they said would happened back then eventually did happened.
    At times when everyone was losing their sh*t with panic, they kept cool and just delivered data. And data was solid. Looked unrealistically optimistic at the time but in the end it was 100% on the money.respekt

    These guys know what they are doing. And to think that they went from small expat blog to pretty well known news source in less than a year.    

    One word: Impressive! thumbsup
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    Post  Ghoster on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:27 pm

    Near the town of Severodonetsk, Ukrainian police arrested a man who tried to smuggle a BTR all the way from Schastye.

    http://112.ua/kriminal/v-luganskoy-obl-zaderzhan-muzhchina-pytavshiysya-vyvezti-btr-na-svoem-gruzovike-mvd-247808.html

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 DXm3yYT

    In this video - the same BTR 60. It was handed to "Aydar" battalion a year ago.


    There's some talk about Kiev's volunteer battalions being ordered to withdraw from Shyrokyne and later from Schastye soon. Currently seems to be just rumors.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:36 pm

    It looks as if the Dutch prosecutor's office is not bound by the same secrecy agreement as the crash investigation. They appear to be claiming that the SBU tapes are the real thing, after 12 months in storage.

    One of the individuals who may have been involved in the downing of flight MH17 according to the Dutch Public Prosecution Service (OM), was recognized by Ukraine as a former high ranking Russian intelligence officer.

    It is the first indication that the Dutch Prosecution Service is considering the involvement of high ranking Russian (former) servicemen.

    On Monday, the Public Prosecution Service published four tapped telephone conversations from the period surrounding the crash. The service did not reveal the callers’ identities, but explained that the conversations featured “separatists”. On Monday, chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke spoke of “authentic recordings” that “were analyzed through and through”.

    .................................................

    The Organized Crime Office points out that this scenario is still under investigation. By now, the Netherlands have officially requested Russia for information. Chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke is hoping to travel to Moscow shortly in order to view Russian evidence on the flight crash. The Dutch Public Prosecution Service would not comment on the issue this morning. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs was unable to give a reaction as well. Russian media, which are controlled by the government, stated earlier that the SBU’s tapped telephone conversations were “corrupted”.



    Whole article at http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/04/01/russian-officer-recognized-on-tape-by-dutch-investigation-team-mh17/
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:42 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

    For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:46 pm

    JohninMK wrote:It looks as if the Dutch prosecutor's office is not bound by the same secrecy agreement as the crash investigation. They appear to be claiming that the SBU tapes are the real thing, after 12 months in storage.

    One of the individuals who may have been involved in the downing of flight MH17 according to the Dutch Public Prosecution Service (OM), was recognized by Ukraine as a former high ranking Russian intelligence officer.

    It is the first indication that the Dutch Prosecution Service is considering the involvement of high ranking Russian (former) servicemen.

    On Monday, the Public Prosecution Service published four tapped telephone conversations from the period surrounding the crash. The service did not reveal the callers’ identities, but explained that the conversations featured “separatists”. On Monday, chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke spoke of “authentic recordings” that “were analyzed through and through”.

    .................................................

    The Organized Crime Office points out that this scenario is still under investigation. By now, the Netherlands have officially requested Russia for information. Chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke is hoping to travel to Moscow shortly in order to view Russian evidence on the flight crash. The Dutch Public Prosecution Service would not comment on the issue this morning. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs was unable to give a reaction as well. Russian media, which are controlled by the government, stated earlier that the SBU’s tapped telephone conversations were “corrupted”.



    Whole article at http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/04/01/russian-officer-recognized-on-tape-by-dutch-investigation-team-mh17/
    And then we get this from FortRus

    Ukrainian military acknowledges it may have shot down flight MH17 By Igor Korotchenko Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

    An anonymous source in one of Ukraine's security agencies said that the Malaysian Boeing was shot down as a result of an unauthorized Ukrainian Buk-M1 launch. RIA Novosti reports citing a source in a Ukrainian security agency that the MH17 catastrophe may have been the result of an unanticipated situation during the training of one of Ukraine's air defense units.

    The anonymous source states the following: "On July 17 2014, the commander of the 156th Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment was instructed to conduct missile crew training on providing coverage for Ukrainian ground forces in the suburbs of Donetsk, which entailed deploying the battalions, training target acquisition and tracking procedures, and carry out a simulated destruction of an aerial target using Buk-M1 missiles." He said that battery commanders were issued launch keys, however, there were no plans to launch an actual 9M38M1 missile.

    The training exercise involved two Su-25 aircraft, their task was to conduct aerial reconnaissance and designated training targets in the vicinity of Ukrainian troop concentration to the West of Donetsk.

    The source: "After one of the aircraft entered Buk detection zone, it began to be tracked by a missile crew located near Zaroshchenskoye. In all likelihood, due to a tragic coincidence the flight paths of the Malaysian Boeing and the Su-25 coincided and, in spite of the altitude difference, were indicated on the Buk radar as a single target which proved fatal for the Boeing. If two targets are located on the same azimuth from the launch vehicle, the tracking system automatically shifts to the one which represents the largest radar target."

    SBU is trying to establish why the unauthorized launch took place. The source does not possess information about the course of that investigation.

    We should note that the scenario described above is consistent with the results of the recent investigation conducted by Almaz-Antey. According to Russian experts, the Boeing was shot down by a 9M38M1 missile launched by a Buk-M1 system located near the village of Zaroshchenskoye which was under Ukrainian control.

    Netherlands are conducting the main investigation of the July 17 catastrophe. The majority of victims were citizens of that country. Final results are expected in October.

    J.Hawk's Comment: I've translated the Almaz-Antey investigation presentation some months ago, and I also wrote more than once that whoever was shooting at the MH17 likely thought he was shooting at something else. And that "something else" was most likely deemed to be a Russian military aircraft intruding into Ukraine's airspace. Because the airliner (which was following a non-standard route) would not only be visible as a significantly bigger target than the single-seat Su-25, it also would not be equipped with a Ukrainian military IFF. And to make things worse, Ukrainian press at the time carried not only stories about a Russian ground invasion of Ukraine, but also stories of Russian aircraft intruding into Ukrainian airspace.

    That's the most likely Su-25 connection to the shooting, for my money. It is extremely unlikely the MH17 was shot down by an Su-25 because that aircraft is capable of carrying only short-range heat-seekers with small warheads that would not cause the sort of damage the MH17 sustained. If the MH17 was struck by an air-to-air heat-seeking missile, that missile would have struck one of its engines causing a engine fire but not much else--the warhead is too small to even blow off the engine. This, in turn, would have given the crew time to issue a mayday call and take other measures to try and save the aircraft. They were not able to do either because the cabin crew was killed almost instantly by the heavy Buk warhead exploding in close proximity of the cockpit.

    That still leaves the small matter of whether the anonymous source is legit and we have no way of knowing that. However, if that aspect of the story is true, it would indicate a certain desire to make amends with Moscow which of course implies the need to find a scapegoat...

    Turchinov? Or how about the former SBU head Nalivaichenko who's been spilling the beans on Turchinov's corruption?


    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/ukrainian-military-acknowledges-it-may.html
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:50 pm

    medo wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

    For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

    I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.
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    Post  Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:14 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

    For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

    I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.
    All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:18 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.

    You make a good point. In hindsight, it's possible Russia gave NAF the go ahead to do offensive in January this year with the goal of capturing an American supplied counter mortar radar, which NAF did. If the US supplies a big counter battery radar, then we can expect Russia to give NAF green light again for another offensive to capture that equipment.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:21 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

    For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

    I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.
    All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.
    We know that the first three counter battery radars were delivered, only two still with the UA, but does anyone know if the balance of 17 were delivered?
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:26 pm

    Any claim that Russian intelligence officers or military were involved in the downing of MH17 can be instantly
    dismissed as retarded propaganda. What Russian state interest does the downing of MH17 serve? It
    clearly serves the interests of Russia's enemies and the Kiev regime to stage this false flag and smear Russia.
    What military value did MH17 have?

    The only possibility outside the most likely that it was the Kiev regime, is that MH17 was a collateral damage
    incident. Attempts by the NATO media and its Kiev quislings to paint some cartoon evildoer image is
    insane and ludicrous. If the NATO public falls for such cheap and cheesy propaganda, then the NATO
    public is a collection of retards and that makes them extremely dangerous together with their lunatic leaders.
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    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:35 pm

    BKP wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    There are many parallels between Novorossiya and The Confederate States of America, right down to the main issue, federalization. If you read the period documents and writings of the participants you will understand that the war was not over slavery, it was state's rights versus National Government. Being from the very deep south I am well aware of what happened back then and I know of Lieutenant General T.J. Jackson. What the Yankees teach as The American Civil War we call and were taught about The War of Northern Aggression. When I first saw the Flag of Novorossiya I immediately showed my wife the flag and showed her the CSA Battle Flag. She simply smiled and said 'This time they won't lose'.

    We often have interaction with both RF soldiers and NAF soldiers. A year ago, although I said nothing to anyone, I did not think our boys would win. I knew we here were safe behind the sword and shield of Russian Army but I feared very much for the outcome up north. Today those fears are long gone, I see virtually no difference between NAF and RAF soldiers now. I am suitably impressed with not only their vastly improved combat skills but also their demeanor with civilians and veterans, in other words like soldiers of RAF our boys with NAF exude a confidence that is palpable, not arrogance but confidence, confidence in their abilities and confidence for the end result of the war. Make no mistake, this war will last quite some time and we will lose a lot of good men and women and a lot of civilians, but in the end we will have victory.

     

    Huh? I thought you once said you were an ex-German national. Anyhow, it seems increasingly popular for some these days to make this claim that the American Civil War was not about slavery but about "states' rights." Even Paul Craig Roberts, who generally has worthwhile things to say, seems to subscribe to this. Of course, he too is a southerner. But, that is a topic wherein he and I part ways in our perspectives.

    The reason why states' rights was at issue to the extent that war broke out was because of slavery. The south wanted new states entering the union to have the the "right" of allowing slavery. It was true, and they understood, that if the new states did not have this right, then the balance of political influence in the federal government would slowly tip in favor of the non-slave-owning states.

    It's true that the northern states were far from being morally perfect themselves, and many persons of influence there were scoundrels and exploiters themselves. Nevertheless, the south was standing in the way of the trend of history, which is that slavery was rightly on it's way out. Who the hell should feel that they have "right" to own another human being like a chattel animal? It is an outrageous idea, and I do take issue with anyone who supports it. Those apes would've dragged that evil institution right into the 20th century if they had their way. And who knows? Maybe they would've eventually become a sister state of Nazi Germany right here in North America. The movement undertaken by Novorussians has nothing to do in spirit with that of the CSA. The fact that their emblem bears some similarity to the CSA battle standard is probably an accident of graphic design, not an attempt to indicate kinship in spirit to that earlier, foreign, and rightfully-defeated movement.

    And as to the misnomer "The War of Northern Aggression," need I remind you that it was the south that initiated armed conflict by attacking fort Sumter?

    I said I am 100% ethnic German, NOT a German national. Your arguments are duly noted.
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    Post  franco on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:03 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    medo wrote:So, now we now, that Russia doesn't send much of their own weapons and ammunition to Novorussia, but transfer Ukrainian weapons and ammunition to Novorussian army, which Ukrainian army sell, most probably to pay for food, fuel, medics, etc. This is good for Novorussia on a long time period. More that Ukrainian army sell their weapons and ammunition, less will be in Ukrainian reserves to fight battles. Considering, that the only Ukrainian ammunition factory is in Lugansk in Novorussia, Ukrainian army and ukronazi units will sooner or later run out of ammunition and they will have no money to buy it from NATO.

    If Maidan runs out of ammo, wouldn't the US send ammo and arms to Maidan?

    For free? I don't think so. Ukraine will have to pay it, but without money it is not possible. Don't forget, US weapons and ammunition is far more expensive than Russian one. For how many units, Ukraine is able to buy weapons and ammo from US? And they will still need food and fuel, so they will still sell those US weapons and ammo to Novorussia.

    I think it would be under foreign aid, paid for by US taxpayers. That's how the US arms industry makes big money. Foreign aid is a big part of that. All those arms sent to Iraq, for example, are done under foreign aid. The US also has plenty of surplus ammo.
    All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.
    We know that the first three counter battery radars were delivered, only two still with the UA, but does anyone know if the balance of 17 were delivered?

    Read that one was destroyed in an artillery strike, another was accidentally destroyed by the UAF's themselves and of course the 3rd was captured apparently never used?
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:05 pm

    auslander give me an honest answer

    Are you a complete BSer or not?

    'Coz really man, if you are - I salute you. I mean really, I would be impressed.
    Between all the other hyper-troll characters we have had here and on mp.net, including Monarchist et all - you would have the top marks.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:23 pm

    kvs wrote:Any claim that Russian intelligence officers or military were involved in the downing of MH17 can be instantly
    dismissed as retarded propaganda.   What Russian state interest does the downing of MH17 serve?   It
    clearly serves the interests of Russia's enemies and the Kiev regime to stage this false flag and smear Russia.
    What military value did MH17 have?  

    The only possibility outside the most likely that it was the Kiev regime, is that MH17 was a collateral damage
    incident.   Attempts by the NATO media and its Kiev quislings to paint some cartoon evildoer image is
    insane and ludicrous.   If the NATO public falls for such cheap and cheesy propaganda, then the NATO
    public is a collection of retards and that makes them extremely dangerous together with their lunatic leaders.

    This. If SBU had evidence, they would have provided it long before than "recently". I call BS on that article.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:33 pm

    Ghoster wrote:Near the town of Severodonetsk, Ukrainian police arrested a man who tried to smuggle a BTR all the way from Schastye.

    http://112.ua/kriminal/v-luganskoy-obl-zaderzhan-muzhchina-pytavshiysya-vyvezti-btr-na-svoem-gruzovike-mvd-247808.html

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 DXm3yYT

    In this video - the same BTR 60. It was handed to "Aydar" battalion a year ago.


    There's some talk about Kiev's volunteer battalions being ordered to withdraw from Shyrokyne and later from Schastye soon. Currently seems to be just rumors.

    So he was selling it to the rebels? or apparently intended to?
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:40 pm

    flamming_python wrote:auslander give me an honest answer

    Are you a complete BSer or not?

    'Coz really man, if you are - I salute you. I mean really, I would be impressed.
    Between all the other hyper-troll characters we have had here and on mp.net, including Monarchist et all - you would have the top marks.
    Not Auslander but I would like to speak in his defense.

    He posted pictures of himself and his wife in Sevastopol (?) on the 'Post a Picture of Yourself' thread on mp.net.

    I visited Russia just this summer and I had the opportunity to go the Army-2015 Expo because my relatives have a dacha in Kubinka. There was a Sevastopol local there who I had the opportunity to listen to. He described every event that Auslander posted a thread recounting his experiences on Mp.net that took place last February, right down to the RS goons driving the pro-Ukraine protests.

    So I have faith in Auslander saying who he says he is. If he is a BSer, he maybe the best one out there.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:43 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:If he is a BSer, he maybe the best one out there.

    That's what I'm saying.
    If he is a BSer, then really, the man's got talent no doubt about it. I mean to lead so many on for so long. Wow.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 22 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:45 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:All is well and true Flagship except that Ukraine is a special case. In places like Iraq, that is how the US is selling weapons there. In Ukraine, the US is afraid that the VSU will not achieve satisfactory results with the provided arms. The US doesn't want to see US weapons in NAF or eventually Russian hands being one of the biggest concerns. Its a good bet that heads were rolling in US government as soon as they found out that the Rebels had captured counter-battery radars. If the US sends weapons like FGM-148s or something along those lines, then imagine the ensuing scandals once the Rebels inevitably post videos of them thanking Obama for the Javelins. The US has ruled out donating lethal aid to Ukraine. However if the Ukrops squander some of their IMF money and blow it on arms, I am sure the US would be more tempted to sell to them. That being said, we still won't see the Ukrops running around with any interesting equipment anytime soon.

    You make a good point. In hindsight, it's possible Russia gave NAF the go ahead to do offensive in January this year with the goal of capturing an American supplied counter mortar radar, which NAF did. If the US supplies a big counter battery radar, then we can expect Russia to give NAF green light again for another offensive to capture that equipment.
    I don't think that Russia gave the green light to the NAF just to capture that equipment. Debaltsevo was a thorn in the Novorossiya's side that should have been removed last summer. Russia is more concerned about the NAF winning the war to prevent American interests to have a unobstructed path right to Russia.

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